Coronavirus discussion

[KalieGirl]

String- the vaccine is failing. It’s time to get with the current scientific data instead of digging your heels in on an old narrative. Science evolves and does not remain static when faced with new data.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... tates.html

The Times included a chart at the top of the article. The chart has two panels; the first shows the US at the peak with two other first-world countries for cumulative deaths since day one; the second shows the US as the ONLY first-world country above 20 Omicron deaths per 100K, by miles.

Japan is the lowest, with no injection mandates; actually it has an active anti-mandate program.

E3489F1B-9350-4747-89A3-071C986BB41C.png

[Roofdog]

Covid 19: A Second Opinion
“Discussion begins around 40 minute mark. Sen. Ron Johnson moderates a panel discussion, COVID-19: A Second Opinion. A group of world renowned doctors and medical experts provide a different perspective on the global pandemic response, the current state of knowledge of early and hospital treatment, vaccine efficacy and safety, what went right, what went wrong, what should be done now, and what needs to be addressed long term.”

https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-se ... inion.html

This round table discussion is approximately 5 hours long. I have viewed it twice. For the love of yourself, you family, your friends, and all of humanity please do yourself a favor and listen. Whether you are pro-vax, anti vax, or somewhere in the middle it is worth your time and attention! I understand that the topic of the virus and vaccines is controversial and heated. It is ok to feel that way as the last 2 years has taken a toll on everyone. I think we all have questions and want to learn about what went right and what went wrong in our country’s pandemic response so we can do better in the future. We also deserve full disclosure and access to the data from the CDC and FDA that guided public health policy including age and risk stratified numbers and severity of covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. We also need full disclosure of clinical trial data for the vaccines as well as vaccine adverse events, deaths, and all cause mortality for trial participants pre FDA EUA authorization and post vaccine rollout. By law the FDA must disclose the trial data and the ingredients and chemical structure of the vaccines post licensure. The FDA and Pfizer are joined together to actively block this process. We should be asking.. why?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -mandates/


Your 'experts' say the vaccine isn't working.

Pass.

Vax or no vax plays no part. If you read what I wrote the drug they gave him to "calm" him down flatlined his heart. So what would a vax have to do with that?
Also everyone throws articles around from lying ass politicians like they are fact and truthful. This is part of the scam....misinformation going both ways. They are all liars, every one of them. What was the biggest thing that happened in all of this? 40 new billionaires were made, and thats a fact. This was the biggest money grab by our gov in known history. They have stolen more money from us in the last 20 months then ever. This is what covid was all about. Most "experts" have flip flopped on everything they said 2 times over. Then people want to throw an article from them and say see look!! BTW the vax isnt a vax, they named it a vax for the immunity from being sued when it hurt someone. Its an experimental gene therapy by their own admission. Look up Kerry Mullis, the inventor of the PCR. The testing process is a fraud as well. Im sure you've now heard of Robert Malone (Joe Rogan podcast) one of the most established guys in the virology field. Take a look at some of his interviews. After all he created the technology thats in the gene therapy. This is all my opinion btw the way so dont take offense, this is why we live in a free country. If debate were more excepted i think we would all learn more. Take care!!

[StringThing]

String- the vaccine is failing. It’s time to get with the current scientific data instead of digging your heels in on an old narrative. Science evolves and does not remain static when faced with new data.

You post links, but a link doesn't make it 'science'. Having a study doesn't make it 'science'. You need internationally agreed consensus results published by a peer-reviewed journal with a history of reputable publications.

That looks something like this:

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

American, Canadian, and Iranian virologists doing a meta study of clinical trials and finding that the vaccines are both effective and have a low incidence of side effects compared to the virus. All the vaccines. Published by IDP who is owned by BioMed Central.

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

Chinese scientists finding out the exact same thing in another meta study, reviewing much of the same data . Again, all the vaccines are proven effective. Published by the CCP. Also published by IDP. Because that's how peer review works. If the methodology is sound, it can be published in several outlets, each being individually peer-reviewed. Like this right here.

By the way, most of this clinical data is likely available for purchase to anyone with the money. You pay for access through a database. Nothing secret about it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 14170/full

Bangladeshi/Saudi Arabian meta study which says we don't have info on long term COVID effects and gets into depth about the dangers. Says vaccines are helpful. Funded and published by Tarif University which is like in the top 5 Saudi Arabian schools. Peer-reviewed in a Saudi Arabian journal.

This is the general consensus stance of the scientific community. Political lines don't matter. This is what makes the modern scientific process the most robust process for finding truth that humans have ever invented. Through this process, we developed medicines, and engines, computers, and more.

I could keep posting studies, but what's the point? You won't listen. Every time I see posts from pro-misinfo types, they always link to irreputable sources. Often small studies, done by small schools, in countries that sometimes have no IRB that verifies the validity of medical studies before they are conducted. Usually this is India, Pakistan, or some African or South American country. Results are often non-replicable and have poor methodology. I remember someone earlier in this thread linked to an Indian study that showed ivermectin was effective based on the results of clinical data from ONE LOCAL HOSPITAL LIKE 10MIN FROM THE SCHOOL. Not peer-reviewed. I mentioned the poor methodology and it got ignored, because many pro-misinfo people are not interested in discussion about the validity of scientific data.

You think its 'your data' vs 'my data' and that's just not the case. You don't have ground to stand on when you post such poor evidence, then ignore very valid criticisms of improper scientific conduct. Yet, not once have you criticized my sources for improper methodology. Why do you dismiss the majority of scientific evidence, and choose to believe in the minority? Do you know something that these millions of researchers do not?

I will answer that for you: No, you do not. You don't know more than the scientific community.

[KalieGirl]

Thank you String for making my point for me!
You have discredited my sources using meta-analysis by stating only double blind placebo controlled clinical trials that are peer reviewed and published are credible- and then link to a meta analysis to support your claims. Moreover the meta analysis source you linked to is OLD DATA from July 2021! Moreover, you choose Chinese sources from CCP as reputable?! Seriously?

[StringThing]

Vax or no vax plays no part.

Oh okay, so unvaxxed then?

What did they give him to 'calm him down'? Do you know? Your wife's mother would be able to request medical records and find out exactly what it was, as well as his vital signs and all of that.

Most likely is he got 10mg of Valium or some other benzo, which would not cause respiratory depression or lower BP to the point you'd have something like cardiac arrest. I can't think of any other 'calming' drug they give besides benzos. It's the go-to because the LD50 is so insanely high and it has such a good safety profile.

Pneumonia is known to cause heart attacks and cardiac damage, regardless of whether the pneumonia is induced by COVID or not.

[KalieGirl]

String- the vaccine is failing. It’s time to get with the current scientific data instead of digging your heels in on an old narrative. Science evolves and does not remain static when faced with new data.

You post links, but a link doesn't make it 'science'. Having a study doesn't make it 'science'. You need internationally agreed consensus results published by a peer-reviewed journal with a history of reputable publications.

That looks something like this:

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

American, Canadian, and Iranian virologists doing a meta study of clinical trials and finding that the vaccines are both effective and have a low incidence of side effects compared to the virus. All the vaccines. Published by IDP who is owned by BioMed Central.

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

Chinese scientists finding out the exact same thing in another meta study, reviewing much of the same data . Again, all the vaccines are proven effective. Published by the CCP. Also published by IDP. Because that's how peer review works. If the methodology is sound, it can be published in several outlets, each being individually peer-reviewed. Like this right here.

By the way, most of this clinical data is likely available for purchase to anyone with the money. You pay for access through a database. Nothing secret about it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 14170/full

Bangladeshi/Saudi Arabian meta study which says we don't have info on long term COVID effects and gets into depth about the dangers. Says vaccines are helpful. Funded and published by Tarif University which is like in the top 5 Saudi Arabian schools. Peer-reviewed in a Saudi Arabian journal.

This is the general consensus stance of the scientific community. Political lines don't matter. This is what makes the modern scientific process the most robust process for finding truth that humans have ever invented. Through this process, we developed medicines, and engines, computers, and more.

I could keep posting studies, but what's the point? You won't listen. Every time I see posts from pro-misinfo types, they always link to irreputable sources. Often small studies, done by small schools, in countries that sometimes have no IRB that verifies the validity of medical studies before they are conducted. Usually this is India, Pakistan, or some African or South American country. Results are often non-replicable and have poor methodology. I remember someone earlier in this thread linked to an Indian study that showed ivermectin was effective based on the results of clinical data from ONE LOCAL HOSPITAL LIKE 10MIN FROM THE SCHOOL. Not peer-reviewed. I mentioned the poor methodology and it got ignored, because many pro-misinfo people are not interested in discussion about the validity of scientific data.

You think its 'your data' vs 'my data' and that's just not the case. You don't have ground to stand on when you post such poor evidence, then ignore very valid criticisms of improper scientific conduct. Yet, not once have you criticized my sources for improper methodology. Why do you dismiss the majority of scientific evidence, and choose to believe in the minority? Do you know something that these millions of researchers do not?

I will answer that for you: No, you do not. You don't know more than the scientific community.

Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia meta studies are credible but those from India et al. are not?
A study is only as good as the methodology but making such broad and generalized statements isn’t a credible position to take.

[herbalhippie]

Vax or no vax plays no part.

Oh okay, so unvaxxed then?

What did they give him to 'calm him down'? Do you know? Your wife's mother would be able to request medical records and find out exactly what it was, as well as his vital signs and all of that.

Most likely is he got 10mg of Valium or some other benzo, which would not cause respiratory depression or lower BP to the point you'd have something like cardiac arrest. I can't think of any other 'calming' drug they give besides benzos. It's the go-to because the LD50 is so insanely high and it has such a good safety profile.

Pneumonia is known to cause heart attacks and cardiac damage, regardless of whether the pneumonia is induced by COVID or not.

I read a lot at the nursing sub on Reddit,they're giving Ativan to reduce anxiety, I don't think I've seen Valium mentioned.

Also yes, a lot of heart attacks and strokes with Covid patients experiencing a severe course of the disease.

[StringThing]

Thank you String for making my point for me!
You have discredited my sources using meta-analysis by stating only double blind placebo controlled clinical trials that are peer reviewed and published are credible- and then link to a meta analysis to support your claims. Moreover the meta analysis source you linked to is OLD DATA from July 2021! Moreover, you choose Chinese sources from CCP as reputable?! Seriously?

Okay, then post them. I haven't seen you post anything like that. Lets see the evidence that says vaccines don't work. Actual studies please, not articles or videos, which is mostly what I see you post.

Also, the emphasis was on REPUTABLE peer reviewed journals. Anybody can do a meta-analysis and post it online.

The CCP has a robust scientific community. You can't just dismiss a study because it came from China. If the CCP said trees have leaves, would you doubt them, just because the CCP said it? Even when everyone else says that trees have leaves? That you instinctively dismiss scientific data from China is VERY telling of your bias. It's like anywhere else in the world with a modern research industry. I don't dismiss studies from any country. I look at the validity of those studies and whether or not they have been widely replicated.

'old data' is an irrelevant claim, and is not a logical dismissal of the consensus science. Can you prove that the virus has changed so significantly, that the vaccine is no longer useful? Can you prove these studies are outdated or irrelevant? Or is 6 months just too much for science to stay relevant, in your opinion? Generally, studies are considered relevant for about 5-10 years depending on the field. It's bad form to reference studies much older than that as the basis for your research. This is a WIDELY held belief that you can easily google to verify. But if you feel differently, who are scientists to argue?

[StringThing]

String- the vaccine is failing. It’s time to get with the current scientific data instead of digging your heels in on an old narrative. Science evolves and does not remain static when faced with new data.

You post links, but a link doesn't make it 'science'. Having a study doesn't make it 'science'. You need internationally agreed consensus results published by a peer-reviewed journal with a history of reputable publications.

That looks something like this:

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

American, Canadian, and Iranian virologists doing a meta study of clinical trials and finding that the vaccines are both effective and have a low incidence of side effects compared to the virus. All the vaccines. Published by IDP who is owned by BioMed Central.

https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 21-00878-5

Chinese scientists finding out the exact same thing in another meta study, reviewing much of the same data . Again, all the vaccines are proven effective. Published by the CCP. Also published by IDP. Because that's how peer review works. If the methodology is sound, it can be published in several outlets, each being individually peer-reviewed. Like this right here.

By the way, most of this clinical data is likely available for purchase to anyone with the money. You pay for access through a database. Nothing secret about it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 14170/full

Bangladeshi/Saudi Arabian meta study which says we don't have info on long term COVID effects and gets into depth about the dangers. Says vaccines are helpful. Funded and published by Tarif University which is like in the top 5 Saudi Arabian schools. Peer-reviewed in a Saudi Arabian journal.

This is the general consensus stance of the scientific community. Political lines don't matter. This is what makes the modern scientific process the most robust process for finding truth that humans have ever invented. Through this process, we developed medicines, and engines, computers, and more.

I could keep posting studies, but what's the point? You won't listen. Every time I see posts from pro-misinfo types, they always link to irreputable sources. Often small studies, done by small schools, in countries that sometimes have no IRB that verifies the validity of medical studies before they are conducted. Usually this is India, Pakistan, or some African or South American country. Results are often non-replicable and have poor methodology. I remember someone earlier in this thread linked to an Indian study that showed ivermectin was effective based on the results of clinical data from ONE LOCAL HOSPITAL LIKE 10MIN FROM THE SCHOOL. Not peer-reviewed. I mentioned the poor methodology and it got ignored, because many pro-misinfo people are not interested in discussion about the validity of scientific data.

You think its 'your data' vs 'my data' and that's just not the case. You don't have ground to stand on when you post such poor evidence, then ignore very valid criticisms of improper scientific conduct. Yet, not once have you criticized my sources for improper methodology. Why do you dismiss the majority of scientific evidence, and choose to believe in the minority? Do you know something that these millions of researchers do not?

I will answer that for you: No, you do not. You don't know more than the scientific community.

Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia meta studies are credible but those from India et al. are not?
A study is only as good as the methodology but making such broad and generalized statements isn’t a credible position to take.

I REALLLLY feel you don't understand the scientific process if this is your takeaway lmao.

Like seriously, you are not even making an effort to understand. There are regulatory agencies in different countries that dictate who can and can't conduct medical research. Some countries, like India, have zero restrictions. Others, like the USA, all of Europe, Canada, Mexico, China, etc etc, have these regulatory agencies. It doesn't make any study from that country a 'bad study' but it does mean you have to look at it with more scrutiny. It's purely a legislative thing.

[KalieGirl]

Thank you String for making my point for me!
You have discredited my sources using meta-analysis by stating only double blind placebo controlled clinical trials that are peer reviewed and published are credible- and then link to a meta analysis to support your claims. Moreover the meta analysis source you linked to is OLD DATA from July 2021! Moreover, you choose Chinese sources from CCP as reputable?! Seriously?

Okay, then post them. I haven't seen you post anything like that. Lets see the evidence that says vaccines don't work. Actual studies please, not articles or videos, which is mostly what I see you post.

Also, the emphasis was on REPUTABLE peer reviewed journals. Anybody can do a meta-analysis and post it online.

The CCP has a robust scientific community. You can't just dismiss a study because it came from China. If the CCP said trees have leaves, would you doubt them, just because the CCP said it? Even when everyone else says that trees have leaves? That you instinctively dismiss scientific data from China is VERY telling of your bias. It's like anywhere else in the world with a modern research industry. I don't dismiss studies from any country. I look at the validity of those studies and whether or not they have been widely replicated.

'old data' is an irrelevant claim, and is not a logical dismissal of the consensus science. Can you prove that the virus has changed so significantly, that the vaccine is no longer useful? Can you prove these studies are outdated or irrelevant? Or is 6 months just too much for science to stay relevant, in your opinion? Generally, studies are considered relevant for about 5-10 years depending on the field. It's bad form to reference studies much older than that as the basis for your research. This is a WIDELY held belief that you can easily google to verify. But if you feel differently, who are scientists to argue?

Where to begin… it is unwise to take a statement, extrapolate intent based upon your personal biases and then jump to faulty conclusions.

First, I have posted sources. Reputable sources. Your refusal to acknowledge them reveals your bias.

Secondly, I do not “instinctively dismiss scientific data from China” as you falsely allege. CCP can and does obfuscate data if it serves their agenda. A prudent scientist would use caution and scrutiny with scientific data, trials, studies etc. from the CCP. This not bias but rather common sense.

Thirdly, are you not aware that the sars-cov2 virus has mutated and continues to mutate thus rendering the data from July 2021 less relevant to the data obtained more recently in regards to vaccine efficacy? Are you not aware that the vaccine induced antibodies are not neutralizing the current strains as evidenced by the increase in infections, hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated?

[StringThing]

Thank you String for making my point for me!
You have discredited my sources using meta-analysis by stating only double blind placebo controlled clinical trials that are peer reviewed and published are credible- and then link to a meta analysis to support your claims. Moreover the meta analysis source you linked to is OLD DATA from July 2021! Moreover, you choose Chinese sources from CCP as reputable?! Seriously?

Okay, then post them. I haven't seen you post anything like that. Lets see the evidence that says vaccines don't work. Actual studies please, not articles or videos, which is mostly what I see you post.

Also, the emphasis was on REPUTABLE peer reviewed journals. Anybody can do a meta-analysis and post it online.

The CCP has a robust scientific community. You can't just dismiss a study because it came from China. If the CCP said trees have leaves, would you doubt them, just because the CCP said it? Even when everyone else says that trees have leaves? That you instinctively dismiss scientific data from China is VERY telling of your bias. It's like anywhere else in the world with a modern research industry. I don't dismiss studies from any country. I look at the validity of those studies and whether or not they have been widely replicated.

'old data' is an irrelevant claim, and is not a logical dismissal of the consensus science. Can you prove that the virus has changed so significantly, that the vaccine is no longer useful? Can you prove these studies are outdated or irrelevant? Or is 6 months just too much for science to stay relevant, in your opinion? Generally, studies are considered relevant for about 5-10 years depending on the field. It's bad form to reference studies much older than that as the basis for your research. This is a WIDELY held belief that you can easily google to verify. But if you feel differently, who are scientists to argue?

Where to begin… it is unwise to take a statement, extrapolate intent based upon your personal biases and then jump to faulty conclusions.

First, I have posted sources. Reputable sources. Your refusal to acknowledge them reveals your bias.

Secondly, I do not “instinctively dismiss scientific data from China” as you falsely allege. CCP can and does obfuscate data if it serves their agenda. A prudent scientist would use caution and scrutiny with scientific data, trials, studies etc. from the CCP. This not bias but rather common sense.

Thirdly, are you not aware that the sars-cov2 virus has mutated and continues to mutate thus rendering the data from July 2021 less relevant to the data obtained more recently in regards to vaccine efficacy? Are you not aware that the vaccine induced antibodies are not neutralizing the current strains as evidenced by the increase in infections, hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated?

No, you have not posted from reputable sources from what I've seen. You had the opportunity to do so in this post, but you didn't. Why? Maybe in your next post, you can post some reliable sources showing that the vaccines are ineffective. I assume they will be newer than 6 months.

Lol @ CCP obfuscates data. They are looking at the same information as everyone else. Prudent scientists DID use caution and scrutiny. The whole point of peer review is that they are unable to obfuscate or push misinformation because the source of data has been verified and the methodology has been found to be sound. I posted an article from China, peer reviewed and published by one of the largest medical research publications in Europe. Why are you even bringing up issues of the CCP obfuscating data? It's such an irrelevant, general, and easy to make statement. What is your real world evidence for any information being obfuscated in this specific study? Have you looked at their methodology, and found something to be the matter? What did they do wrong in that study? Do you mistrust BioMed Central for some reason? Get into specifics and stop making general statements.

Yes, I'm aware the virus mutates. It doesn't make vaccines 'ineffective' as you claimed earlier. Less effective, yes, but not ineffective. They designed the vaccines to remain relevant by centering the design around some major spike protein that is vital to the effectiveness of COVID. But again, this is totally pointless without the studies you got this information from. You're taking whatever you read as true, and it's not. The international scientific community disagrees with you. Why do you think that is?

[KalieGirl]

String- once again you are misconstruing my words and jumping to conclusions. It is impossible to have a rational, logical, scientific and respectful discussion with you when you insist on twisting things I say into things I did not say. At this point we can agree to disagree. I have tried to remain respectful of you when responding to your comments on my posts, a courtesy you have not returned as evidenced by your own comments in this thread. My posts are not for you anyway, they are for those who wish to view them. I will not be silent just because you don’t like what I have to say or the things I post. As a matter of fact, on many of my posts I refrain from my personal opinion on the information I post. That being said, this is a public forum and as such no one person gets to bully other people or silence them. Be above that type of behavior. I let my content and character speak for itself and I will not continue to engage in this back and forth banter that only serves to incite and aggravate the other person or attack their intelligence and/or character. You don’t like what I post? Fine! Disagree respectfully and move on.

[KalieGirl]

Peer reviewed and published 21 Dec 2021:
“The mechanisms of action of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2—an extensive review“

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00491-6

[StringThing]

String- once again you are misconstruing my words and jumping to conclusions. It is impossible to have a rational, logical, scientific and respectful discussion with you when you insist on twisting things I say into things I did not say. At this point we can agree to disagree. I have tried to remain respectful of you when responding to your comments on my posts, a courtesy you have not returned as evidenced by your own comments in this thread. My posts are not for you anyway, they are for those who wish to view them. I will not be silent just because you don’t like what I have to say or the things I post. As a matter of fact, on many of my posts I refrain from my personal opinion on the information I post. That being said, this is a public forum and as such no one person gets to bully other people or silence them. Be above that type of behavior. I let my content and character speak for itself and I will not continue to engage in this back and forth banter that only serves to incite and aggravate the other person or attack their intelligence and/or character. You don’t like what I post? Fine! Disagree respectfully and move on.

I asked you very specific questions about your opinions and you are avoiding answering any of them, repeatedly. You are conflating point blank question asking and observations with 'attacks'. A lot of the questions I asked were speculative, which is why I asked for clarification. I don't know what's going on in your head.

Me saying you're not comprehending is not an attack on your intelligence or character, lol. It's a situational assessment of the discussion we were having, and its supposed to be a call for you to address the issue by clearing up the comprehension confusion.

Very intelligent people get swept up by propaganda and misinformation precisely because their system of logic has led them to believe its the truth. If your system of logic is robust, you should be able to defend it from all angles. If you can't, maybe you should question why you believe what you believe in.

You mentioned antibodies so it gives me the impression you're not understanding of the full situation, because that's not a valid measurement of protection from COVID-19. Vaccinated people always had less antibodies than the unvaccinated. I suggest you read this article to get a more informed picture of the current situation with Omicron and vaccines.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00214-3

[StringThing]

Peer reviewed and published 21 Dec 2021:
“The mechanisms of action of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2—an extensive review“

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00491-6

>Although multiple antiviral and host target activities have been reported for ivermectin in SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, it is still unclear if any of these activities will play a role in the prevention and treatment of the disease. The controlled clinical trials that are underway will reveal if these activities will translate into clinical efficacy.


I've said it before, but efficacy =/= effectiveness. This is a pharmacokinetic/pharmacodynamic study. Not evidence of ivermectin being useful in clinical settings. This is the whole problem with ivermectin is that the clinical studies never match up to the purported benefits people imagine after reading these mechanistic studies. You've posted studies like this before. They are not clinical trials. Do you have any clinical trials showing ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID?

[KalieGirl]

String- once again you are misconstruing my words and jumping to conclusions. It is impossible to have a rational, logical, scientific and respectful discussion with you when you insist on twisting things I say into things I did not say. At this point we can agree to disagree. I have tried to remain respectful of you when responding to your comments on my posts, a courtesy you have not returned as evidenced by your own comments in this thread. My posts are not for you anyway, they are for those who wish to view them. I will not be silent just because you don’t like what I have to say or the things I post. As a matter of fact, on many of my posts I refrain from my personal opinion on the information I post. That being said, this is a public forum and as such no one person gets to bully other people or silence them. Be above that type of behavior. I let my content and character speak for itself and I will not continue to engage in this back and forth banter that only serves to incite and aggravate the other person or attack their intelligence and/or character. You don’t like what I post? Fine! Disagree respectfully and move on.

I asked you very specific questions about your opinions and you are avoiding answering any of them, repeatedly. You are conflating point blank question asking and observations with 'attacks'. A lot of the questions I asked were speculative, which is why I asked for clarification. I don't know what's going on in your head.

Me saying you're not comprehending is not an attack on your intelligence or character, lol. It's a situational assessment of the discussion we were having, and its supposed to be a call for you to address the issue by clearing up the comprehension confusion.

Very intelligent people get swept up by propaganda and misinformation precisely because their system of logic has led them to believe its the truth. If your system of logic is robust, you should be able to defend it from all angles. If you can't, maybe you should question why you believe what you believe in.

You mentioned antibodies so it gives me the impression you're not understanding of the full situation, because that's not a valid measurement of protection from COVID-19. Vaccinated people always had less antibodies than the unvaccinated. I suggest you read this article to get a more informed picture of the current situation with Omicron and vaccines.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00214-3

You are word twisting again. Just because I mention antibodies you now come to the conclusion that I don’t understand “the full situation?” That’s like saying because I mention the word French fries I don’t comprehend the items that come in a happy meal!

- vaccinated people always had less antibodies than the unvaccinated? This statement makes no sense.

- show me where I said that article I posted proved ivermectin was an effective covid treatment… I’ll wait

- I have posted studies in the past but you ignored them. Go back and look.

[StringThing]

String- once again you are misconstruing my words and jumping to conclusions. It is impossible to have a rational, logical, scientific and respectful discussion with you when you insist on twisting things I say into things I did not say. At this point we can agree to disagree. I have tried to remain respectful of you when responding to your comments on my posts, a courtesy you have not returned as evidenced by your own comments in this thread. My posts are not for you anyway, they are for those who wish to view them. I will not be silent just because you don’t like what I have to say or the things I post. As a matter of fact, on many of my posts I refrain from my personal opinion on the information I post. That being said, this is a public forum and as such no one person gets to bully other people or silence them. Be above that type of behavior. I let my content and character speak for itself and I will not continue to engage in this back and forth banter that only serves to incite and aggravate the other person or attack their intelligence and/or character. You don’t like what I post? Fine! Disagree respectfully and move on.

I asked you very specific questions about your opinions and you are avoiding answering any of them, repeatedly. You are conflating point blank question asking and observations with 'attacks'. A lot of the questions I asked were speculative, which is why I asked for clarification. I don't know what's going on in your head.

Me saying you're not comprehending is not an attack on your intelligence or character, lol. It's a situational assessment of the discussion we were having, and its supposed to be a call for you to address the issue by clearing up the comprehension confusion.

Very intelligent people get swept up by propaganda and misinformation precisely because their system of logic has led them to believe its the truth. If your system of logic is robust, you should be able to defend it from all angles. If you can't, maybe you should question why you believe what you believe in.

You mentioned antibodies so it gives me the impression you're not understanding of the full situation, because that's not a valid measurement of protection from COVID-19. Vaccinated people always had less antibodies than the unvaccinated. I suggest you read this article to get a more informed picture of the current situation with Omicron and vaccines.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00214-3

You are word twisting again. Just because I mention antibodies you now come to the conclusion that I don’t understand “the full situation?” That’s like saying because I mention the word French fries I don’t comprehend the items that come in a happy meal!

- vaccinated people always had less antibodies than the unvaccinated? This statement makes no sense.

- show me where I said that article I posted proved ivermectin was an effective covid treatment… I’ll wait

- I have posted studies in the past but you ignored them. Go back and look.

It's not because you mentioned the word antibodies. It's because you implied that a lack of them was evidence of a lack of protection from COVID. Again, that was an opportunity for you to clarify. This is what gave me that impression:

"Are you not aware that the vaccine induced antibodies are not neutralizing the current strains as evidenced by the increase in infections, hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated?"'

Which is blatantly wrong, because the vaccine induced antibodies are neutralizing COVID just fine, as has been evidenced numerous times. You don't understand what you read, if this is the stuff you're posting.

[brave777]

Roofdog, IAM VERY SORRY THAT HAPPENED. Sending lots of love and emotional support. Hope you feel it. (Meditated for 5 minutes.)

I dont know why but when i meditated in lotus position, my eyes watered up, that has never happened to me before. I did send lots of love to your dad and knowledge i know to be in good place when he is ready to part ways from earth, send love to you Roofdog, if you feel better its not me, its my angels. They are one power house for sure. Stay Strong!

Feel free to PM me anytime, any questions or if want to just talk.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Let's just take a minute to remember the point of this post is to spread reliable information and ideas aimed at helping us all live (in good health) together.

I was talking to my PCP and he was like 'I don't want you to die...' and I told him, 'great, that's what i look for in a doctor...' Weird convo.

Here's to not dying and some good kratom. Lunar new year began a few days ago on 2/1/22, so Kung He Fat Choy!

PS I'm not too old, 41yr, relatively good health, body's been through the wringer a bit, but Dr.'s comment was a surprise to me.

He's not gonna be my PCP anymore, though, not cause the comment, but cause I just moved again and parents want me to get a closer Dr than all the way back in Honolulu town, as opposed to Ewa.

Love love to ya Dr. Baclig, you're a great doc.

[CatfatherB]

Let's just take a minute to remember the point of this post is to spread reliable information and ideas aimed at helping us all live (in good health) together.

I was talking to my PCP and he was like 'I don't want you to die...' and I told him, 'great, that's what i look for in a doctor...' Weird convo.

Here's to not dying and some good kratom. Lunar new year began a few days ago on 2/1/22, so Kung He Fat Choy!

Cheers to "not dying" and "spread reliable information" ... I think everyone has made their minds up on getting jabbed or not and my stance is "don't take medical advice from me, whatsoever" ill leave that there for the woke mob to mull over...

[brave777]

Since this is comedy, i cant tell if this is staged or not? Even thought looks very real.

Heather McDonald on stage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yq31i4mTgM

In spirit, beings understand Jesus mean holly to people on earth. Something on the other side did not like what she was doing. If its real, that means something took her mind over for few seconds making her collapse. Even thought i did not see any orbs flying into her head like on most regressive hypnosis videos. seems its true, never use Jesus name in vein. I have my own long philosophical view what exactly i think happened but i ll save that for another day. This is not the first story i know, there is many. No one has rights to talk bad about any religions Hero. This applies to all religions, that's why i respect all positive hero's that brought good message to people. We the people always twist things up and make the worst out of it. The more money the better. I think this going to be another awakening for everyone to learn to respect everyone just how you would your self, especially if you can explain people real meanings of what each hero's message was all about. Most Christian they really have a big huge heart and caring people, its the leaders at church who only see $ $ corrupting peoples minds CNN style. Glad heater didn't die and back to comedy, i think she will choose her words better this time around. She did say this first time ever happened to her, coincidence? don't think so.

[StringThing]

Let's just take a minute to remember the point of this post is to spread reliable information and ideas aimed at helping us all live (in good health) together.

There are more educated people than you or me who have already examined available options and found that the vaccine was by far the safest and most reliable way of preventing or slowing the spread of COVID-19, which is currently crippling the medical industry. As many people have died from COVID in the US as live in the entire state of Montana.

So far in this thread I have seen several users post dangerous misinformation that could threaten the lives of others, and they don't have the support of the scientific community backing them. They have cherrypicked data from unreliable sources and believe in politically influenced ideas of corruption that do not have a basis in objective evidence.

Anybody else here with a STEM degree? What do you guys do that qualifies you to have an educated opinion on matters of science/medicine?

[StringThing]

https://www.dw.com/en/long-covid-the-sc ... a-60733021

"We are bastards. We have many deaths on our hands."

[StringThing]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/ ... contribAff

>n 25 U.S. jurisdictions, decreases in case incidence rate ratios for unvaccinated versus fully vaccinated persons with and without booster vaccine doses were observed when the Omicron variant emerged in December 2021. Protection against infection and death during the Delta-predominant period and against infection during Omicron emergence were higher among booster vaccine dose recipients, especially among persons aged 50–64 and ≥65 years.

You can claim the CDC is manipulating you but their statement on causal inference is pretty ambiguous because these studies were independent and did not use identical standards. But the pattern is the same, no matter the study. Vaccines help tremendously. Better than anything else.

[StringThing]

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/al ... infection/

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj-2021-068414

study showing 1 in 3 unvaccinated older adults suffer from symptoms of long covid.

Correlative and untrustworthy as data collection was not robust enough to come to any serious examination

It does show a pattern, though. Why do unvaccinated people have more health problems across the board??

[StringThing]

Trump, October 2020:

"Even without the vaccine, the pandemic’s going to end. It’s gonna run its course. It’s gonna end. They’ll go crazy. He said ‘without the vaccine’ — watch, it’ll be a headline tomorrow. These people are crazy. No, it’s running its course."

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... eath-rates

"Overall, counties won by Biden have a death rate of 236 per 100,000 people, the U.S. News analysis shows, compared with a rate of 293 deaths per 100,000 in Trump counties."

So interesting how this dynamic has reversed since the start of the pandemic even though Trump supporters are more likely to live in rural areas.

[brave777]

Since this is comedy, i cant tell if this is staged or not? Even thought looks very real.

Heather McDonald on stage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yq31i4mTgM

In spirit, beings understand Jesus mean holly to people on earth. Something on the other side did not like what she was doing. If its real, that means something took her mind over for few seconds making her collapse. Even thought i did not see any orbs flying into her head like on most regressive hypnosis videos. seems its true, never use Jesus name in vein. I have my own long philosophical view what exactly i think happened but i ll save that for another day. This is not the first story i know, there is many. No one has rights to talk bad about any religions Hero. This applies to all religions, that's why i respect all positive hero's that brought good message to people. We the people always twist things up and make the worst out of it. The more money the better. I think this going to be another awakening for everyone to learn to respect everyone just how you would your self, especially if you can explain people real meanings of what each hero's message was all about. Most Christian they really have a big huge heart and caring people, its the leaders at church who only see $ $ corrupting peoples minds CNN style. Glad heater didn't die and back to comedy, i think she will choose her words better this time around. She did say this first time ever happened to her, coincidence? don't think so.

HEATHER MCDONALD - ''I DON'T THINK I'LL HAVE THE 4TH BOOSTER SHOT''
https://www.brighteon.com/b84699d2-68a3 ... 81bf839d5d

A follow up, what she thinks after 3 weeks of her falling down on stage. I really hope she is fine and getting better. She is having a lot of issues now. Any ways, spread the word if you don't want your family members to die to use the brain. Or if you think its fake then take it, ether way i lose nothing here, its all on YOU, what you do. I already know you guys know all this here but your family or friends might not. HEATHER MCDONALD is a very good example to share if you dont know where to start. May everyone have better health and be more wise this year and upcoming one! Also, its a lie that you can't get better after the jaby, never give up, stay strong and use products that help remove heavy metals to make body clean again. We all know this jabys have strange weird effects after 2 weeks and some start issue after 3 to 6 months so just cause you feel fine now does not mean you can stop eating healthy foods or using products that help detox. I think Robert Molone talked about early preventives, while you feel good or ok, start early that way later it wont affect you in any way. There is tons of protocols now on how to feel better or detox, talk to your DR. There are many good Dr's, find one you can TRUST, they just more privet to not lose job. I heard there is even face book groups, join one that help each other. More minds helping each other means less issues health wise and you being morally strong.

On another note, we all know test tips glow in the dark and emit very high levels of radiation https://www.bitchute.com/video/2acAMQpLcr22/ . I seen plenty of them video last year but keep forgetting to mention it here. Just a warning to be careful around them until more study comes out what exactly is on those life saving Q tips. If its true it stays in your brain up to a year, i would definitely find out why the heck tips glow glow. (some use sauna to clear it but not sure how effective it is, if heat) https://www.bitchute.com/video/z9qhHjembXT5/ , some say graphine oxide glows as well, i think that's just conspiracy until more study or info comes out why some people glowing. It could be they were born this way.

This is nothing to do being in denial or having shame for any reason, i done dumb things in my life and i know how that feels, this is everything to do with our health and are you helping your family members/friends or waiting till they get 10th booster in front of your eyes? I would not be sharing this, i had a near death once and my opinion on life changed and you might think i am retarded for trying to help unknown strangers on some kratom forum but its not even like that, i treat everyone like i would my self. All life MATTER, don't let anyone make you think other wise. I am sure after 100 years when we all will be on the other side, we will pop some kratom and have a fun discussions on how we influenced each other to avoid EVIL. Your words mean a lot, speak your truth.

[SouthOfHeaven]

The vaccine is working as big pharma intended. It keeps you alive and coming back for more. This is their main goal. All the vax/antivax argument is irrelevant. Me being vaxxed only helps me, not you. And just because you are vaxxed you are still spreading the virus. Masks are useless except K95. The mandates were pointless. Even the Democrats know that, but it's not why they are taking them down. Mid-terms this year's has Dems scared. This whole 2 years and all the panic led to only a . 2 reduction in deaths due to covid with a major amount of these deaths having comorbidities. There's also the issue of the emotional, physical, and mental well being of our children. Mental health issues have risen dramatically including suicide. All in all these "public emergency mandates" have likely done more harm than good. It was a terrible public policy hiding inside s pandemic. Brought to you by the Biden administration who may I remind you he said Trump should resign because deaths were over 200,000 and we didn't even have vaccines yet. With multiple vaccines in hand and more Covid knowledge being learned daily Biden's death toll stands stover 900,000. When will he tender his resignation?

[brave777]

Yeah i agree with south of heaven, i think if people knew ahead of time that vaccine doesn't stop catching rona, i dont think anyone would take it. It did start out with 100% effectiveness. Number one issue from vaccine is heart issue and increased Bloop Pressure. The blood clots can be fixed by proper detox but not the heart issue is still acting. And if you do some fast sport or just running in general, high chance of getting a blood clot and yet all the athletes who never took vaccine dont have blood clots, there was zero issues on athletes 2019 and under. All these sport athletes must of caught the CORONA.Bloop , bloop, bloop. palm face, flat out, some shake for a little bit and stop. I was against it day 1, you can scroll up and see my thoughts before even corona virus issue arrived. I started out talking how FEAR removes all come sense and logic, i could easily see manipulation written all over it. I warned not to be in fear mode and even brought examples how to stay out of it. But what ever, at least now people starting to see trough the BS. All the people i know had some kind of flu or corona if you like to call that, sickness last between 2 days to a week, sure you might lose your smell or maybe taste but people who never took jaby are still fine after their flu. I also had those issues. I dont think you will find someone who was not badly ill. In some ways i think its a good think Corona happened, more and more people became health freaks. That would of never happened.

[StringThing]

The vaccine is working as big pharma intended. It keeps you alive and coming back for more. This is their main goal. All the vax/antivax argument is irrelevant. Me being vaxxed only helps me, not you. And just because you are vaxxed you are still spreading the virus. Masks are useless except K95. The mandates were pointless. Even the Democrats know that, but it's not why they are taking them down. Mid-terms this year's has Dems scared. This whole 2 years and all the panic led to only a . 2 reduction in deaths due to covid with a major amount of these deaths having comorbidities. There's also the issue of the emotional, physical, and mental well being of our children. Mental health issues have risen dramatically including suicide. All in all these "public emergency mandates" have likely done more harm than good. It was a terrible public policy hiding inside s pandemic. Brought to you by the Biden administration who may I remind you he said Trump should resign because deaths were over 200,000 and we didn't even have vaccines yet. With multiple vaccines in hand and more Covid knowledge being learned daily Biden's death toll stands stover 900,000. When will he tender his resignation?

Yes, that is what the pharmaceutical industry does as a whole.

The difference is that the severity and infectivity of this virus is worse than anything else going around. :Lockdowns and mask/vaccine mandates were both needed and have been proven to be effective strategies in populations that actually adhere to the rules. The US and many European countries never really locked down properly so they aren't a good example of whether or not lockdowns work. Countries like Vietnam and NZ avoided possibly hundreds of thousands of deaths because of lockdowns and mandates.

*KN95, N95, and K94 masks all work great. CDC dropped the ball on informing people of how ineffective non-sealing masks are. Scientists did not. Trump said they don't even work and refused to wear one. He made fun of politicians who whore N95 masks because they were 'big'. He didn't lockdown or even suggest that states enact lockdowns. He said the virus would go away.

Lol @ Biden's daily death toll being over 900,000. You know that's the TOTAL deaths from COVID throughout the course of this pandemic, right? Plus its totally incomparable anyway since Trump mostly dealt with a pandemic which was on the rise/trying to be eliminated, and Biden is dealing with what we all knew would become endemic. Totally different situations. You can't compare numbers. You can only compare actions. Biden has been pro-mask, pro-vaccine. Trump lost followers when he claimed he was pro-vaccine last year lol.

Biden has been a shit president but he's still way better than Trump, who was a toxic authoritarian.

[StringThing]

Yeah i agree with south of heaven, i think if people knew ahead of time that vaccine doesn't stop catching rona, i dont think anyone would take it. It did start out with 100% effectiveness. Number one issue from vaccine is heart issue and increased Bloop Pressure. The blood clots can be fixed by proper detox but not the heart issue is still acting. And if you do some fast sport or just running in general, high chance of getting a blood clot and yet all the athletes who never took vaccine dont have blood clots, there was zero issues on athletes 2019 and under. All these sport athletes must of caught the CORONA.Bloop , bloop, bloop. palm face, flat out, some shake for a little bit and stop. I was against it day 1, you can scroll up and see my thoughts before even corona virus issue arrived. I started out talking how FEAR removes all come sense and logic, i could easily see manipulation written all over it. I warned not to be in fear mode and even brought examples how to stay out of it. But what ever, at least now people starting to see trough the BS. All the people i know had some kind of flu or corona if you like to call that, sickness last between 2 days to a week, sure you might lose your smell or maybe taste but people who never took jaby are still fine after their flu. I also had those issues. I dont think you will find someone who was not badly ill. In some ways i think its a good think Corona happened, more and more people became health freaks. That would of never happened.

Catching COVID =/= getting a bad case of COVID.

COVID causes a higher rate of heart problems than the vaccine.

You have any more logical fallacies?

[brave777]

everyone got their own truth, i respect yours. If it helped you not catching corona more power to you. I am not against it, i openly said those who wish to take it, should.

[StringThing]

everyone got their own truth, i respect yours. If it helped you not catching corona more power to you. I am not against it, i openly said those who wish to take it, should.

No, everybody does not have "their own truth." There is objective truth in the world. People have their own perceptions of the truth, not their own truth.

I do not accept your drunk driving. I do not accept you putting others at risk. It is immoral, and if you are unvaccinated, you are putting other people at risk.

You are on the wrong side of history.

[KalieGirl]

Back when it all began

[StringThing]

Mind telling us what you are trying to imply by posting that? It doesn't reflect WHO's current stance and the post is over 2 years old. WHO reports on current data trends. Notice how they specifically mention it was Chinese authorities who found those results?

https://twitter.com/who/status/1248352568159461378

They posted this the same exact day (Jan 14, 2020) recognizing human to human contact.

https://twitter.com/who/status/12177854 ... 49?lang=en

Here they are Jan 16th, 2020, giving advice to reduce human to human contact

How misleading it would be if you only looked at the one twitter post!

[StringThing]

Here's what current data is showing:


https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2022/02 ... 645193314/

Ivermectin does not prevent severe COVID-19, study finds



https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... cle-696949

Vitamins ineffective at reducing COVID-19 mortality - study



https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o407

Covid-19: Vaccinated people are less likely to get long covid, review finds



https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/19 ... han-deltas

The Omicron's Wave accounts for many more deaths than Delta

[KalieGirl]

everyone got their own truth, i respect yours. If it helped you not catching corona more power to you. I am not against it, i openly said those who wish to take it, should.

No, everybody does not have "their own truth." There is objective truth in the world. People have their own perceptions of the truth, not their own truth.

I do not accept your drunk driving. I do not accept you putting others at risk. It is immoral, and if you are unvaccinated, you are putting other people at risk.

You are on the wrong side of history.

Seriously dude?! Shameful and disgusting you would even think this much less post it. So disrespectful but then again why be surprised when you have already said you’re fine with unvaccinated dying since it may help you in the elections.

[StringThing]

everyone got their own truth, i respect yours. If it helped you not catching corona more power to you. I am not against it, i openly said those who wish to take it, should.

No, everybody does not have "their own truth." There is objective truth in the world. People have their own perceptions of the truth, not their own truth.

I do not accept your drunk driving. I do not accept you putting others at risk. It is immoral, and if you are unvaccinated, you are putting other people at risk.

You are on the wrong side of history.

Seriously dude?! Shameful and disgusting you would even think this much less post it. So disrespectful but then again why be surprised when you have already said you’re fine with unvaccinated dying since it may help you in the elections.

No, it is not shameful to believe in the societal obligation.


-Don't hurt others

-Let others do what they want so long as they don't hurt others


Unvaccinated folks are breaking both of those. They put others at risk, and demand the right to do so under the guise of freedom. Similar to drunk drivers. Many believe they can drive just fine drunk, and aren't putting anyone at risk. Many get away doing it for a long time before they end up hurting themselves or someone else.


Getting vaccinated is the only informed and caring thing to do.

[KalieGirl]

Covid data from the UK shows alarming numbers of covid hospitalizations and deaths in vaccinated population. The UK data is divided into unvaccinated and vaccinated (1,2 or 3 doses). The data shows that for age >18 the vaccinated are being hospitalized and dying at a much higher rate than unvaccinated.

[StringThing]

Covid data from the UK shows alarming numbers of covid hospitalizations and deaths in vaccinated population. The UK data is divided into unvaccinated and vaccinated (1,2 or 3 doses). The data shows that for age >18 the vaccinated are being hospitalized and dying at a much higher rate than unvaccinated.

Base rate fallacy, again.

What you posted does not show 'rate' or 'per capita'.

You should read the footnote in your own screenshot.

Realize vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are not distributed equally.

I hope this helps you to better understand why you are wrong.