COVID vaccine!!

[RubberToes]

So the COVID vaccine essentially killed my burns. After the first shot it deadened my ability to feel any effects considerably for about a week and a half, then things started to go back to normal. After the second shot though, all effects were killed completely for about the same amount of time. It's very similar to how the effects are deadened when you get sick, which actually makes a lot of sense. Things are starting to get back to normal now, but I just wanted to give you all a heads up so you can prepare for a few possibly rough days. Anyone else get the shots and experience this? \m/

I had the same effect from my first shot and even pushed my daily amounts up trying to find my sweetspot, knew something was off!
I felt sort of flu-ish with a slightly sore throat for approx. 10 days, not enough to curtail daily activities, feeling better now two weeks out
Very sore arm for a couple of days, normal for me with vaccinations
I used to travel extensively to some out of way countries, some required multiple vaccinations and those made me feel really off for a bit, but you felt protected against some nasty bugs that you certainly did not want!

I have ten more days until my second shot and I will deal with (possible) diminished burns and discomforts to have the peace of mind against Covid
I feel it a temporary discomfort for long-term protection - get this pandemic in the rear view mirror (I hope )

I just want to add: I wish it had come sooner as my heart goes out to all those who suffered and died ALONE - because of this nasty bug.
I am thankful that we now have a choice(s) "in record time" to protect ourselves and possibly prevent more suffering

[mivanqua]

Lurker here had to say something. I enjoy this forum because it usually doesnt devolve into conspiracy theory stuff. Lost respect for some of you today . Just wow. Get your vaccines and if your against them your head checked.

This is bullshit. Just saying. Some of us have trustworthy immune systems. Its funny to me how "my body, my choice" has bren a call to arms for women for decades (which I agree with, by the way, and think men have NO place in this discussion AT ALL,) but the second I say it, im a "crazy conspiracy theorist" and "selfish." Funny how the turn tables, or whatever it is Michael Scott said. Comments like this are the problem, not the solution. Since when is someones PERSONAL MEDICAL DECISION FOR THEM OR THEIR KIDS ANYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS? ) This WHOLE THING is horse shit and neither she NOR I should be put in this fucked position over something that is literally NO THREAT to her WHATSOEVER.

Lets talk about 9/11 -------> conspiracy
Lets talk about long-term effects ----- > NOT a conspiracy

Edited because im irritated with people thinking its ok to tell someone else how to live. Hows that for a cool story, bro? Not everything is a fucking MEME.

[Sanbutsushin]

Cool story bro

[KratomAdvocateMO]

So the COVID vaccine essentially killed my burns. After the first shot it deadened my ability to feel any effects considerably for about a week and a half, then things started to go back to normal. After the second shot though, all effects were killed completely for about the same amount of time. It's very similar to how the effects are deadened when you get sick, which actually makes a lot of sense. Things are starting to get back to normal now, but I just wanted to give you all a heads up so you can prepare for a few possibly rough days. Anyone else get the shots and experience this? \m/

Yes i had covid and it completely dulled the effects of kratom and i assume thats why u are having that issue

[WhiteAngelica]

I wish that anyone who had no plan of getting the vaccine could dedicate it to my Uncle, but it is too late. He is dead of Covid, and I am one of over half a million families mourning the loss of their children, parents, spouse, etc. I only wish it could have been there in time to save his life. He would still be a firefighter, risking his life to save the lives of others because that is how he lived, and though I am scared about the vaccine, since I've been sick for a few months and I'm waiting to get well enough to take it, I want to do it personally in honor of this beautiful man whose loss has cut a hole in my very being. Maybe I could save a life, too. Maybe I can save my own.

This is a personal, private decision and everyone has the right to choose. For me, I can't live like this anymore. I live inside, could not attend my Uncle's funeral, nor can I see my family. I can't see my doctors. I can't get a haircut. Nothing glows anymore. And the only way I can improve upon my static life, and a year of not being able to get to doctor appointments or even set up a biopsy on a concerning skin growth---none of it is good. I still cry for my Uncle and it doesn't get better, living in a little box of a world. I look forward to grieving communally and again, taking charge of my healthcare. But I am close to breaking. I would rather take my chances with a vaccine (and I am immunocompromised, so of course it is scary) than to die without having the chance to fulfill my dream of getting well enough to get back in the classroom and write again. I need so much help to get to this point, and I don't want to die disappointing myself, and causing this kind of pain that has fractures lives in my family. My Aunt is lost without her husband. Lost. They were like doves, married for life. Have you ever seen a sad dove? It is heartbreaking.

Sorry for the emotional dump. I just wish the vaccine could bring them back, and people are still dying.

[pray4peace4]

Boy... this post really hit a nerve. I'm really tired of the isolation. Both my sons found the isolation unbearable & it was especially bad because they both broke up with their girlfriends a couple months before the plague hit. I was pretty concerned for them both & did my best to force them to come visit by luring them with their favorite food.

As far as the vaccine goes... my kratom's been hitting exquisitely ever since my 2nd shot. Wow - it's like the honeymoon period all over again. Every strain is like the best kratom I've ever had, even the junky ones. I seriously doubt the vaccine had anything to do with it. All I got from the shots was a sore shoulder.

For any of you that are concerned about the plague, there's several medicines coming out later this year that effectively prevent a person from getting COVID, & are going through safety testing right now. If you don't trust Big Pharma, don't get their products. And, the way kratom has boosted my immune system, I probably didn't need to take anything. I haven't had a cold nor flu since I started with kratom 5 years ago.

[aliekat]

This injection is still in phase 3 clinical trials, and has only been approved for emergency use, therefore, any willing recipient is technically a test subject.

[KurtisCards]

Getting my 1st Vaccine shot tomorrow peeps.

I for one, welcome our nano bot overlords lol

[WarmFoothills]

That's interesting, my burn after my first vaccine shot was actually really effective, wanted to wait until after I got the jab to dose. Haven't noticed much difference in the following days. Sucks that happened to you but at least you'll know you're extremely unlikely to get sick from Covid.

[herbalhippie]

Got my first Pfizer shot Friday and it seemed to make my burns stronger for a few days. Weird.

[Luvndpeace]

I had something similar happen after my first shot, 10 days nothing... My second shot didn't affect me at all though. I got the Pfizer shot, second one was a little over a week ago.

I was extremely nervous that it was going to happen again, but it didn't

Either way that week after the first shot wasn't bad, didn't feel sick or anything, just normal.

As of any symptoms from the shot itself, zero from the first shot (other than the k weirdness for 10 days) and the second shot, I was exhausted for the next day, a little achey but nothing horrible. The second day I was completely fine. Just in case anyone is in a similar situation and nervous, I wanted to share my experience!

[Tree]

Got my first pfizer shot Saturday. No problems with kratom effects and no aches or sick feeling. Just slightly sore arm. Fingers crossed the next shot doesn't make me feel sick either.

[herbalhippie]

Son and I are supposed to get out shots Friday. Son is still getting his but I'm leaving for a roadtrip Saturday so I'll get mine when I get back. After I see how his goes.

[Sanbutsushin]

My own second shot is coming up on Friday. Fingers crossed for all of us that our burns are not adversely affected, and if they are, for only a very short time

[IndelibleDotInk]

Son and I are supposed to get out shots Friday. Son is still getting his but I'm leaving for a roadtrip Saturday so I'll get mine when I get back. After I see how his goes.

Where ya goin, and what ya doin? Is this inspired by Nomadland movie? Haven't seen it yet.

Maybe you should get your second shot before you leave so you are protected on your trip! My second shot was fine except for a tender injection spot and achy shoulder sockets for a day.

[herbalhippie]

I'm going to the Olympic peninsula and yes Nomadland was a bit of inspiration.

I'll be okay because I won't be eating in restaurants or staying in hotels I'll be outside most of the time.

[brave777]

2 days ago i know someone close who took the vaccine has passed away. She felt worse and they put her on chemotherapy. that was the end of her. RIP . I know few massage therapists who are breaking and have weird symptoms from vaccinated people. Could be true that vaccinated people are shedding? And its not like you can say no i am not going to massage vaccinated people because you will lose your job. And its clear now it takes 5 years to fully do the mRNA transition, get ready for many boosters shot. . So those who got the shot will be going trough weird mood swings. But i am all for it, people need this. i think there is to many people on earth and bill gates hit the jack pot finely saving humanity from this evil virus.

[Sanbutsushin]

Could be true that vaccinated people are shedding?

The wording and image from this nearly made me spit out my morning coffee

Got my second dose yesterday and my arm is a bit sore but otherwise feeling fine. Taking a break from kratom today so I can't say whether it's going to affect my burns just yet, but I will report back if anything seems off. Especially if I notice I am... shedding.

[RubberToes]

No adverse effects from my second shot, albeit a sore arm and tired for a day. :
Glad to report my daily serving is down to 2.5g and .5g is doing the trick with good proven kratom - maybe the shots contributed to a tolerance reset?

[brave777]

Pfizer admits that SHEDDING can occur and non-jabbed can be exposed by INHALATION or SKIN CONTACT!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39icFr46imI

[Anoidance]

So before this devolves into nothing but conspiracy theory, the vaccines contain 0 Covid virus. So it’s impossible to shed said virus. And to claim otherwise is 100% misinformation.

As a healthcare worker, my thanks to those who are getting vaccinated.

[Sanbutsushin]

Welp, felt kinda feverish and chilly for a couple hours yesterday but it corrected itself very quickly and I'm doing fine. Have had kratom twice since and so far so good. I'm not someone who's in particularly good health or has the ideally-functioning immune system so I was expecting the worst, but I'm happy to report that apart from those few hours, it's been smooth sailing. Although I do anticipate the return of the Moderna Arm in another week or so but a little swelling is nothing compared to the alternative.

So before this devolves into nothing but conspiracy theory, the vaccines contain 0 Covid virus. So it’s impossible to shed said virus. And to claim otherwise is 100% misinformation.

As a healthcare worker, my thanks to those who are getting vaccinated.

Thank you for this comment, as it'll clear up any potential confusion!

I am an at risk person who would almost certainly not survive covid and share a home with other at risk individuals in similarly poor health, so I extend my thanks on that front as well, to everyone else who's getting vaccinated.

[dylanmckay11]

Lurker here had to say something. I enjoy this forum because it usually doesnt devolve into conspiracy theory stuff. Lost respect for some of you today . Just wow. Get your vaccines and if your against them your head checked.

Did u know there are a.i bots now on youtube that even do videos. A.i people i call them. But thats not happening. A.i isnt that advanced yet. Oh lordy ha.
Edited for brevity
How do i delete my post. This is on wrong thread. I posted.

[TechNRK]

Interesting discussion here. At first I said I would not get vaccinated when I heard about how quick it was developed out of a cautious state of mind. Then some folks I know got
Vaccinated and did not grow rhino horns from their butts so I decided to, along with my wife, to go ahead and do it. Had my second Pfizer vaccine Tuesday and felt a little crummy yesterday, but overall it wasn’t that bad! I feel great this morning and with the assistance of some TFH and Rhino Remedies leaf, the whole experience was a little easier

As far as “fear” goes and not trusting modern science. To me it’s just a classic case of there always being 2 sides to everything. You can argue that people getting vaccinated are subtly brainwashed into getting the vaccine out of fear. On the flip side though, one could argue the folks that don’t want to get vaccinated are subtly brainwashed by whatever entities into fearing the vaccine and whatever might happen from getting it. There is fear on all sides of the table, it just boils down to what side you choose to believe. A lot of things in this day and age are all opinion based anyway. It’s more of a I believe this and you believe that, when in reality no one has actual “proof” that what they believe is factual. It’s just a matter of what information drip you decide to believe.
Moral of the monologue: nothing in this life is 100% regardless of what you believe. Get vaccinated, don’t get vaccinated, we’ll all eventually move on into the cosmos in some form or fashion.

[mivanqua]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

[Tree]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

Just curious, has your daughter had her basic vaccinations? or none at all? also why is vaccine in quotation marks. What do you believe it is, if not a vaccine?

[herbalhippie]

My kids were all vaxxed when they were young. As adults, only two of the four would get flu shots every year and that was because those two both had H1N1 in 2009 when it was pandemic and they wanted nothing to do with ever having the flu again if they could help it. The other two refused flu shots.

All four of them have chosen to get the Covid vaccine, three of them are fully vaxxed now and one of them is getting her second shot soon.

[brave777]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

Just curious, has your daughter had her basic vaccinations? or none at all? also why is vaccine in quotation marks. What do you believe it is, if not a vaccine?

CDC is a privet company. Right? So you listen to them is like playing with fire. When you sign the paper, who ever pushing Gene therapy shots, they have zero liability. Anything goes or anything happens to you, you agreed to it. Simple. I dont understand how a Gene Therapy shot can carry a name as "Vaccine" / Vaccines takes 10 years to develop or more. What ever experiment your part of, you signed up for. Really dont matter if you listen to news or no news or your none vaxxed, what matters is, absolutely anything you sign to get into your blood without any research, anything can happen down the road. you agreed to something that never been even tested on animals. Parents are in charge of kids and what they want them to have, not schools. Anyone says other wise need to re-think them selfs and them being part of God or this creation.

I have friends who got gene therapy and i got friends who didnt. I am still friends with all, i really dont care if they are shedding or not. I believe even if vaccinated are shedding, it will make you only stronger. You got to get exposed to everything a little to make your self stronger. I dont blame either side, i hand shake wit everyone i touch everything and sometimes times forget to wash my hands when i eat snacks. Never wear a mask and started to ask other why they are wearing it. Get the convo going. Fear is real and it can kill people if you fall into it, i posted about fear a while back ago. Like someone posted above, one day we will all be in cosmos. I thought abut it, everyone got their choice, their body. Lets not tell other not to take Therapy shot or push therapy shots on others. Who ever wants one, let them, if you dont want one then no need to take one.

[Luvndpeace]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

Just curious, has your daughter had her basic vaccinations? or none at all? also why is vaccine in quotation marks. What do you believe it is, if not a vaccine?

CDC is a privet company. Right? So you listen to them is like playing with fire.

CDC is a national public health agency, a federal agency under the US Dept of Health and Human Services.

There is the CDC Foundation which is a nonprofit 501c3.

[mivanqua]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

Just curious, has your daughter had her basic vaccinations? or none at all? also why is vaccine in quotation marks. What do you believe it is, if not a vaccine?

It isn't (or WASN'T until they changed the definition to suit them) a vaccine. Its gene therapy, and yes. She has had all vaccines that are required for public school.

[IndelibleDotInk]

I'm all for the vaccine, but don't think people should be forced to get it the way things are now. I could see where if things get realllllllllyyyy bad, them maybe, for all our sakes. Hopefully the threat dies down to a seasonal flu level. Don't really see us eradicating it like polio, as there's the animal species which could harbor the virus. And mutations like how there are flu variants.

Anyway, my comment was gona be... why is this in general kratom discussion, there is a covid thread in off topic??

[herbalhippie]

Anyway, my comment was gona be... why is this in general kratom discussion, there is a covid thread in off topic??

It started out as a thread about how the Covid vaccine affected someone's kratom burns and devolved (evolved) into a discussion about just the vaccine so I'm going to move it to Off Topic.

I was actually thinking about doing this earlier today.

[TechNRK]

Also this vaccine is not gene therapy. Gene therapy modifies your DNA. mRNA does not change or alter your DNA in any way. This is according to scientists, of which none of us are. Disbelief in the scientific community at this point is FUD.

[Tree]

I read that the FDA is "approving" (as an experiment, so what does that even MEAN?) the "vaccine" for kids 12-15. If they have an inkling that im going to give this shit to MY daughter, they are out of their fucked up mind! And as I said before and was chastised for it, they are going to make the "vaccine" mandatory for public school kids, and in saying that, so ends my daughter's education. I didn't have my daughter to be a Big Pharma pincushion and lab rat. If you think im being over paranoid and/or jumping the gun and don't see the writing on the wall, im not sure what i can tell you. Truth is, I MAY be being over paranoid, but when it comes to my daughters life, thats my job. Couple that with the fact that there is no liability for WHATEVER happens anywhere...i don't know who WOULD give their kid this shit, but they are NOT at risk AT ALL. Risk vs. Benefit people!

Just curious, has your daughter had her basic vaccinations? or none at all? also why is vaccine in quotation marks. What do you believe it is, if not a vaccine?

CDC is a privet company. Right? So you listen to them is like playing with fire. When you sign the paper, who ever pushing Gene therapy shots, they have zero liability. Anything goes or anything happens to you, you agreed to it. Simple. I dont understand how a Gene Therapy shot can carry a name as "Vaccine" / Vaccines takes 10 years to develop or more. What ever experiment your part of, you signed up for. Really dont matter if you listen to news or no news or your none vaxxed, what matters is, absolutely anything you sign to get into your blood without any research, anything can happen down the road. you agreed to something that never been even tested on animals. Parents are in charge of kids and what they want them to have, not schools. Anyone says other wise need to re-think them selfs and them being part of God or this creation.

I have friends who got gene therapy and i got friends who didnt. I am still friends with all, i really dont care if they are shedding or not. I believe even if vaccinated are shedding, it will make you only stronger. You got to get exposed to everything a little to make your self stronger. I dont blame either side, i hand shake wit everyone i touch everything and sometimes times forget to wash my hands when i eat snacks. Never wear a mask and started to ask other why they are wearing it. Get the convo going. Fear is real and it can kill people if you fall into it, i posted about fear a while back ago. Like someone posted above, one day we will all be in cosmos. I thought abut it, everyone got their choice, their body. Lets not tell other not to take Therapy shot or push therapy shots on others. Who ever wants one, let them, if you dont want one then no need to take one.

I have no idea where you guys come up with this shit. Please enlighten me on how this is gene therapy and not an mRNA vaccine. Bonus points if your source is a talking head with no scientific credentials. You would think the Double M community was made up of pharmacologists.

If you want to have an argument of semantics, this is the Oxford definition of a vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

If you are concerned about the speedy development of the mRNA vaccine, this is a tech that they have been working on for many years, and the process is sped up by the billions of dollars and many thousands of people involved. There was no shortage of test subjects. As for the shedding, that is just not possible for an mRNA vaccine. there is no virus in the vaccine. It would shatter our current understanding of biology if that were to happen.

So I take it you gene therapy panic people are lining up for the Johnson and Johnson shot? that's old school tech, baby. Or, more than likely, you are a conspiracy theorist looking for reasons to feel special by not being a "sheep", so you march along with millions of other "free thinkers" to the tune of "alternative media" because they are clever enough to know how to play off of the insecurities of people who base their actions upon fear.

I understand the concerns of those of you who are reasonable and just have questions. The answers are out there. Ask a trusted doctor or look at the studies for yourself. you all use MS and the research is limited!

[herbalhippie]

After the first Pfizer shot I was a little fatigued for a couple days but not too bad, had awful cold chills for a couple hours the Saturday night after the Friday noon shot but the worst part was leg pain. Both legs, muscles and joints for two days and I could hardly do stairs because of it.

Got my second shot Saturday morning, by Saturday night had some pressure in my forehead where the Covid headache goes but it never did turn into a headache. Had some minor leg pain this time and about 1 hour of chills yesterday. And done.

[brave777]

Tree if you like it so much, just take it.

[Greyfeather]

After the first Pfizer shot I was a little fatigued for a couple days but not too bad, had awful cold chills for a couple hours the Saturday night after the Friday noon shot but the worst part was leg pain. Both legs, muscles and joints for two days and I could hardly do stairs because of it.

Got my second shot Saturday morning, by Saturday night had some pressure in my forehead where the Covid headache goes but it never did turn into a headache. Had some minor leg pain this time and about 1 hour of chills yesterday. And done.

Happy to hear that you are all vaxxed up, hh! And just in time for Mother's Day too .

So, no bananas this time, I hope?

I'm already thinking of 6-9 months ahead because I don't know if I can handle feeling constantly vulnerable all of the time - again. If a booster vaccine is ready and recommended I'll be in line. We have had 4 or 5 deaths from COVID in the past month and that is really important considering the hundreds we had over the Fall and Winter. Positives are still too high and so are local hospitalizations. I can't help but be curious as to whether these sick folks had the vax or not. I sort of feel like the 'authorities' could make that information public just for the sake of transparency.

[herbalhippie]

Nope, no bananas. I don't think the National Guard guys manning the vaccination booth were buying that the Covid vax gave me a banana allergy.

I wonder if the double variant from India gets entrenched here if that will be a factor with more people maybe deciding the vax isn't so bad after all. I wonder if the vax will cover it?

[Tree]

GF got her second moderna yesterday. 2 hours of mild flu symptoms and feels good today. My second pfizer is this weekend.

[onespeedstop]

It didn't seem to affect my kratom use/enjoyment. But my arm is still sore 48 hours later. It's probably the first shot (in the arm) that I've gotten in 30+ years though, I don't usually go to the dr., and most of my shots have been from the dentist - which for some reason are never really sore afterwards. Like not specifically where the shot was administered, maybe my jaw or tooth is, but that's not the same as my poor fragile arm 2 days later ha-ha.