Potentiating

[mitragy9]

any thoughts on L-DOPA or Palmitoylethanolamide?

[floatypooltime]

This is a very intriguing topic! I’ve read through this posts three or four times. Clarifying for myself that I understand.
1. Tolerance reducers, taken when not dosing (more hours before the next dose is most effective. Turmeric is used for this.

2. Potentiators, taken15-60 minutes before the dose to put the body in a more alkaline state to receive dose. Such as orange juice? Grapefruit juice? Lemon water?

3. Bioavailability enhancers, taken with the dose to enhance the body’s ability to utilize the alkaloid. Such as Magnesium? Ginseng?

Was I following along correctly? And thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge, you are very trusted and appreciated!

[amagdalene]

This post is amazing, thanks so much Fused Flora! Knowledge is so attractive, very cool.

[fusedflora]

any thoughts on L-DOPA or Palmitoylethanolamide?

I've got a lot of thoughts on those, give me some time to write them up so I can support as well.

Oh and again, if turmeric works good for you before a dose, you very well could be part of the exception. Again, intent is not to say something can't potentiate, just that for most people, it would be best fall into this category and used here. Have you tried taking it at night before bed? How was the morning dose?

This is a very intriguing topic! I’ve read through this posts three or four times. Clarifying for myself that I understand.
1. Tolerance reducers, taken when not dosing (more hours before the next dose is most effective. Turmeric is used for this.

2. Potentiators, taken15-60 minutes before the dose to put the body in a more alkaline state to receive dose. Such as orange juice? Grapefruit juice? Lemon water?

3. Bioavailability enhancers, taken with the dose to enhance the body’s ability to utilize the alkaloid. Such as Magnesium? Ginseng?

Was I following along correctly? And thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge, you are very trusted and appreciated!

all 3 yes for those, you've got it.


I'll discuss cat's claw and caffeine next.

[BallzDeep9]

Part 2:
One could claim magnesium has a lot of effects on the brain receptors, etc... Though I would say that kratom has 40 or so alkaloids, agonists and antagonists alike, not just the mitra affect the mu receptors... So where studies will show it compared to morphine, there are none to compare against the vast amounts of things in kratom. Short, magnesium may eventually be discovered to have an affect on one of these, but there's just too many variables here and not enough studies to prove/disprove. I would consider this neutral, no increase or decrease at this point.

So does magnesium potentiate? By definition, in some people yes, but it is entirely dependent on WHEN, just like water or air... The method it does is increasing metabolism... but would need to be absorbed and ready for the body to use, thus I would argue it is for bioavailability not a true potentiator.

well... Magnesium is one proven, "potentiator" , meaning that it's been actually shown to work directly on MOR, (mµ receptors), provide greater analgesic pain relief, and boost the effects WHEN combined with opiates (Morphine) in studies: LINK 1 and here's another LINK 2. Double blind placebo controlled.

Yes there is always discussion, for sure Kratom hasn't been studied.. A thing like Chinese cats' claw could be effective? but there's very little info.. many theory of how it might work, or could possibly help? Ginseng is considered, outside of Western medicine, the leading "adaptogenic herb" which provides many benefits... balance, homeostasis, provide synergy with other herbs, to increase absorption.. There are many studies on Ginseng, mostly in europe or Asian countries where it's a hugely popular herbal tonic, probably the #1 selling herbal supplement, worldwide?

EDIT for clarity, some of my posts are rambling and some the tone doesn't contribute to discussion. Thanks!

[Kaitlanfutbol]

Maybe it's just me, but potentiating has never really worked for me, with anything. Seems like a waste of time and money to buy an bunch of supplements in hopes of making the burn a little stronger. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's mainly a mental thing, psychosomatic if you will. I'd rather just take an extra gram or two if I want stronger effects. The best tolerance reducer is taking a break or wait longer between doses, the best potentiator is to simply take a bit more on a completely empty stomach.

What effects are you trying to potentiate anyway? Kratom is kratom, you only get so much out of it. The only benefit I see from doing that is to conserve leaf IF it actually works, but kratom is so cheap and abundant that it doesn't seem necessary. Maybe you are unconsciously looking for a stronger substance?

I do support taking some supplements based on their own merits. Like magnesium is helpful for staying regular, and some antioxidants are just good for you overall. But if you read up about multivitamins and some other supplements, they really aren't absorbed well by the body, there is a plethora of scientific articles that say most are nearly totally ineffective. Grapefruit juice and citric acid has never worked, despite claims that it inhibits some brain receptors. It might look good on paper, but in practice it isn't noticeable-in my experience. I'll probably get flack for this, but getting these obscure substances like chinese cats claw just strikes me as pointless and trying to hard to chase euphoria. Just my opinion.

[fusedflora]

I never look at disagreeing as disrespect. That and you've contributed to the discussion by making valid points and arguing mine. It's tasteful and appreciated in the highest actually. No need to apologize, this is how progress is made.

Though again, I would say the method of the NMDA that applies to the morphine studies, indeed would apply strictly to the mu receptor agonists individually, but things like rhynchophylline (another alkaloid in kratom), would have the same effect as magnesium (being a NDMA antagonist). There have been no studies into this to say magnesium or the rhychophylline is more effective at NDMA antagonism, so it is difficult for me to say that magnesium would have this effect if kratom already has it built in. I would say that the other alkaloids likely are already blocking/stimulating the same receptors that the magnesium would; that the magnesium would likely not affect kratom in the same manner as morphine. Morphine is strong mu agonist, but it is only one substance, in kratom we're talking about very many and again a lot of agonists and antagonists available to interact and a lot unstudied. The evidence does say magnesium potentiates morphine and mu receptor agonists by NDMA antagonism, but the evidence does say that this particular mu receptor agonist (kratom) already contains a few other NDMA antagonists. So whats the saturation, and does kratom already have enough to make the magnesium have no effects? Anecdotal evidence from kratom and magnesium users suggest this is likely the case, as I notice little potentiation from magnesium and the forum is full of folks that don't. So, I can't say one way or the other yet firmly, but I can attribute magnesium to tolerance reduction and bioavailability. But I see your point of view and it is valid as well.

I guess short, magnesium does potentiate opiates. But kratom, though it does affect the opioid receptors, it is not an opiate (derived from opium), and has very different interactions and effects. Though some effects mirror effects of opiates, like the mu receptor comparison, there's a lot of other variables that have to be considered. If we were speaking about isolated mitragynine, and magnesium potentiating it alone, I’d completely agree.

I don't debate magnesium's effects on morphine and opiates, but kratom is quite a bit different in many respects and the interactions with all the alkaloids contained are amazing to me.

[the_spookiest]

thanks for this info on magnesium operation, guys. that is interesting about the rhynchophylline/ NDMA antagonism happening sort of built in. Learned a lot!

Grapefruit juice and citric acid has never worked, despite claims that it inhibits some brain receptors. It might look good on paper, but in practice it isn't noticeable-in my experience.

just want to add some clarity for others reading this statement. Personal experiences aside, Grapefruit (and all other CYP3A4 inhibitors) does not work on your brain receptors but instead, aids bioavailability through inhibiting intestinal enzyme CYP3A4. This is mainly noticed though application with full-agonist opiate medications, or full-agonist opiod substances. Since kratom is a partial-agonist which isn't processed identically in the liver and intestines as morphine would be, the added bioavailability this inhibition provides would be partial at best and unnoticeable for most. GFJ does absolutely enhance the amount of absorbtion through 1st-pass metabolism when it comes to opiates. It says so on your prescription info, and many other medications are counter-indicated w/r/t Grapefruit juice.
SO yes, GFJ is effective. Just not for kratom, really. Folks saying this are just making false equivalencies from personal experience or info gathered from online.

Citric acid is very different and does different things with kratom, namely assisting in the process of cell lysis of the actual plant fiber and alkaloids inside. Neither of these things are potentiators as defined above in this thread, but both do play a part in changing the way substances behave inside (GFJ) or outside (citric-soaking) the body. Citric acid can help the body absorb more alkaloids by being consumed 1hr/45 mins before dosing. This is why a lot of headshops sell OJ to their kratom customers....drink a lil OJ, wait, take your kratom. It requires more than a little, though. 16oz of pulpy good orange juice would provide a low-end starting spot for that sort of body prep.


a lot of people continue to point out that kratom can only do so much. that perhaps we are looking or hoping for a stronger substance. I don't think anyone is trying to argue that or change it.
and speaking only for myself with this, i'd say, of course i am. Having felt the unnatural dopamine flow that comes from stronger substances, anyone who says they wouldn't enjoy that feeling again is lying to you and themselves. I would love to feel the way I used to feel at 16, eating percocets before school. That shit solves certain problems until it doesnt, or brings new problems. But the feeling is absolutely something that I would seek out. I can't risk my death buying street pills or dope again, not with the state of adulterated street drugs, but ....if me taking some magnesium (mostly 4 tolerance) and water at the right time, and using the Red Bubble technique gets me closer to that feeling I know exists, it isn't skin off my teeth. And placebo is definitely real and can enhance something even if it isn't Actually enhancing.

[Kaitlanfutbol]

Sorry for pointing out that kratom can only do so much, I didn't read much of this thread and didn't realize it had been mentioned already. I'm sure most are cognizant of this fact already anyway.

I take my kratom with orange juice or something similar everytime, mainly to mask the taste. I wouldn't know if it made a difference since that's my go to method. The fact this, there's so much information that contradicts other info floating online, it's hard to ascertain what will work and what won't. Instead of theoretics, I think people should just experiment and keep the fact that the placebo effect exists in the forefront of the mind, and see what works best. Also as has been mentioned before, there are so many variables, that even if you get a great burn with a supposed potentiator, it may not work as well the second time and the quality of the burn is actually caused by something else. It's so hit or miss, I just don't bother anymore. You could say I'm potentiator jaded. Even the red bubble technique doesn't seem to make a difference.

[the_spookiest]

Sorry for pointing out that kratom can only do so much

no worries!! it is good that folks who are new or just browsing keep that in mind. It isnt a bad mentality to be in, especially for daily users. I only reiterated because there are users who use this mantra regularly. Some hits just wont hit as well. It's tough trying to work your day around optimizing kratom, but i know that I have done that before and some others likely schedule their eating and medicine/supplement consumption around their kratom servings to try and get the most out of it.


currently its 11:30, I just took my second serving of the day. I'm pretty hungry but am gonna wait another 20 to put anything else in my stomach besides water. Is this potentiation? Some stuff is a grey area.
and hey!
everyone is different. doesn't work so much for you? not worth the hassle and money and disappointment? we get it! i get it! as long as you are enjoying what you get out of the leaf, it is working

[mitragy9]

Well just tested phenobarbital(16mg) as a potentiator and it works a little too well haha. I don't recommend anyone try this as it could be potentially dangerous, but phenobarbital is a strong inducer of CYP3A4 enzyme of the liver. This is the pathway that's responsible for converting mitragynine into the much more potent 7-hydroxymitragynine. Inducing these enzymes would (potentially) greatly increase the conversion of mitragynine to 7-ohm. Phenobarbital also is an extremely sedating very long acting barbiturate so I wouldn't recommend anyone try it but it's interesting nonetheless the results were surprising.
7-Hydroxymitragynine Is an Active Metabolite of Mitragynine and a Key Mediator of Its Analgesic Effects
"CYP3A4 resulted in the most robust conversion to 7-OH."

"Ketoconazole (CYP3A4 inhibitor) robustly inhibited both decomposition of mitragynine (Figure 4A) and formation of 7-OH."

"Lastly, certain individuals with enhanced or deficient CYP3A4 activity may experience greater or lesser reinforcing effects following mitragynine (or kratom) consumption depending on the extent of conversion to 7-OH."

List of P-450 CYP3A4 Inducers (strong)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP3A4

oddly enough both capsaicin and quercetin are inducers I've definitely noticed increased analgesia when taken with something spicy.

[the_spookiest]

lmfao i would also not recommend someone testing barbituates to potentiate their burns. please don't take your dogs seizure medication to try the above science!!!

hoWEVER!!! very interesting that enzyme induction boosts the converstion from mit to 7OH....i know that enzyme inhibition lets more drug get absorbed, but the quote you posted said that while it prevents degradation, it inhibits converstion. Wonder if there are enzyme inducers that can be consumed safely and without prescription meds....???? Very interesting. That blocking of conversion may be why people trying the GFJ trick with kratom dont find it helps the same way it did with painkillers or dope.

thanks(?) for the guinea pigging, mitragy

quercetin has been a subject of speculation for a long time re: opiates and i guess by default kratom as well. its hard to get a lot of it at once. i used to try to potentiate with drinking a lotta selzer water or whatever that stuff it that has small bits. it would be interesting to try this induction but im unsure if theres risks with larger amounts of this being consumed, also idk how you would without pure quercetin

[mitragy9]

lmfao i would also not recommend someone testing barbituates to potentiate their burns. please don't take your dogs seizure medication to try the above science!!!

hoWEVER!!! very interesting that enzyme induction boosts the converstion from mit to 7OH....i know that enzyme inhibition lets more drug get absorbed, but the quote you posted said that while it prevents degradation, it inhibits converstion. Wonder if there are enzyme inducers that can be consumed safely and without prescription meds....???? Very interesting. That blocking of conversion may be why people trying the GFJ trick with kratom dont find it helps the same way it did with painkillers or dope.

thanks(?) for the guinea pigging, mitragy

quercetin has been a subject of speculation for a long time re: opiates and i guess by default kratom as well. its hard to get a lot of it at once. i used to try to potentiate with drinking a lotta selzer water or whatever that stuff it that has small bits. it would be interesting to try this induction but im unsure if theres risks with larger amounts of this being consumed, also idk how you would without pure quercetin

I think you're mistaking quinine in tonic water with quercetin. Quercetin is a plant flavonol found in many plants in various concentrations I believe quercetin is extracted from bacopa usually.

[the_spookiest]

oh yea yea ur right. early morning. thanks for correcting good info

[IndelibleDotInk]

gentle bump!

[IndelibleDotInk]

Well just tested phenobarbital(16mg) as a potentiator and it works a little too well haha. I don't recommend anyone try this as it could be potentially dangerous, but phenobarbital is a strong inducer of CYP3A4 enzyme of the liver. This is the pathway that's responsible for converting mitragynine into the much more potent 7-hydroxymitragynine. Inducing these enzymes would (potentially) greatly increase the conversion of mitragynine to 7-ohm. Phenobarbital also is an extremely sedating very long acting barbiturate so I wouldn't recommend anyone try it but it's interesting nonetheless the results were surprising.
7-Hydroxymitragynine Is an Active Metabolite of Mitragynine and a Key Mediator of Its Analgesic Effects
"CYP3A4 resulted in the most robust conversion to 7-OH."

"Ketoconazole (CYP3A4 inhibitor) robustly inhibited both decomposition of mitragynine (Figure 4A) and formation of 7-OH."

"Lastly, certain individuals with enhanced or deficient CYP3A4 activity may experience greater or lesser reinforcing effects following mitragynine (or kratom) consumption depending on the extent of conversion to 7-OH."

List of P-450 CYP3A4 Inducers (strong)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP3A4

oddly enough both capsaicin and quercetin are inducers I've definitely noticed increased analgesia when taken with something spicy.

phenobarbital?! You don't shy away from some hardcore experimentation. Very interesting my friend.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Ketoconazole is used topically to combat dandruff yeast or fungi; the study is talking about ingestion?

[Madvillain626]

Yeah IME magnesium is the only noticeable potentiator. I still love making hot golden milk tho

Also I always drink water with apple cider vinegar after my dose. Noticeable difference in onset time and strength if I toss and wash with just water

[WeAllFloatHere7]

Lately I have been soaking my leaf in hot water, lemon juice (don't measure, but eyeball around 1 TBS) and an eyeballed TSP of MCT oil. It most definitely is making it work significantly better than a simple toss and wash. I haven't tried doing the lemon before it... I may have to experiment.

Oddly enough, I notice that if I have acid reflux, my kratom seems to hit harder. I am on a PPI due to extreme acid reflux issues (tried everything I could naturally to knock it out, even changed my diet and cut coffee, cooked tomatoes, etc.) so my stomach is a little different than most. This morning I woke up with a bit of acid reflux from dinner last night, and my morning burn is one of the best I've had in a long time, and it was leaf that normally is just okay for me. This is not the first time thats happened. I've noticed that after a night of drinking and eating tons of garbage/fried foods, I wake up and have a bit of acid reflux that even my medication can't control. I take my morning dose and it slaps better than normal. I am now trying to piece together why. Maybe my stomach is too alkaline normally for it to work?

[WickedMadScientist]

There's a lot of information regarding potentiators, and I'd like to help folks understand some key differences.

We often label things like turmeric as a potentiator, but when we consider potentiate, that typically means make something more potent, and in that case, turmeric is not. I'd actually break most things we label as "potentiators" into actually 3 different things:
potentiators - those things that actually interact with the kratom and make it more potent
tolerance reducer - those things that make the kratom feel more potent due to a reduction in tolerance
bioavailability enhancers - those things that allow your body to absorb more alkaloids from kratom

The importance of this, is that each one has a lot of differences on how your body responds, but more importantly, determines WHEN you should take each in relation to your kratom

Take turmeric for instance, we often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM and mitrapseud (the stronger alkaloids)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). Taken before or with your kratom, this tends to actually not hit the receptors (as they're already engaged with the mitra, 7ohm, and mitrapseudo), and depending on your diet, is restricting how much mitra is converted to the stronger alkaloids. This isn't much of a net gain if any and doesn't potentiate at all in this circumstance. Turmeric is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose, yet it is usually labeled as such.

Though one might still take with a dose and have a positive outcome (each of our responses are different), the best all around time to take turmeric would be between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing strong alkaloid conversion (net gain).

Citric acid is another example. While it is commonly put onto the kratom to break some of the cell walls (bioavailability enhancer), after this has occurred, the acid can react with the alkaloid (base) and nullify some if you've used too much. But there's another excellent use for it. So the body processes alkaloids best in an alkaline state, I.E. the liver is much more productive at absorbing mitra and converting 7OHM. So one's diet largely affect bioavailability and how one's body absorbs alkaloids. Though an acid, citric acid is metabolized as basic within the body, putting you into an alkaline state (if taken alone or with neutral or other alkaline diets). This allows you to absorb and feel more alkaloids if taken at the right time. The citric acid taken with the kratom dose has already reacted to the plant matter and changed at this point (it broke down the walls), and is not as strong as it once was, so one should not consider that the citric used to break down the plant matter will have much affect on the alkalinity of the body. Not only that, but you need to be alkaline before the kratom is absorbed, not getting alkaline as it's being absorbed. A better method would be to use some citric acid on the powder to extract some of the alkaloids (not too much too reach diminishing returns and nullify them), but an hour or two before have a big serving of something with citric acid to put the body in an alkaline state. I would almost argue that consuming the citrus is more beneficial that mixing with powder, but that largely depends on diet and how much added sugar.

Short, potentiators need to be taken with kratom to have an affect, tolerance reducers need to be taken long before and long after to have maximum time to reset, and bioavailability enhancers need to be taken before kratom to achieve the best effects.

There's plenty of things labeled as potentiating, but one needs to understand how it affects both the body and the alkaloids to know if it is actually beneficial or not at all. If you consider something in one of these three categories, it's easier to determine the when.

Great post my dude!

To add to this, most people don’t realize that the water they drink is acidic and “dead water”. Reverse osmosis water is a great technology but it’s water that has been stripped of its trace mineral content. If you aren’t adding a pinch of sea salt to it, when you consume it on an empty stomach it acts like an anti-nutrient, pulls in electrolytes from your body (in a sense robbing you) and other minerals and you piss them out leaving you deficient, and acidic. Most bottled water is junk, even some “Alkaline” waters are junk. Your safest bet is to just add the pinch of some good, non processed Celtic salt or Himalayan Salt that retain all the minerals you’d find in some fresh spring water and that levels out the PH and removes the anti-nutrient aspect. Now, of course if you are eating a meal and salt your food, no need to salt the water ^_^

[WickedMadScientist]

I’m not a heavy drinker anymore, but one beer after a dose really seems to enhance the experience because of the rise in gaba and serotonin, if and only if, I ate a really good meal and have made sure to drink lots of water.

When it comes to magnesium, personal experience of taken with a dose, it lessens the effects for me. I’ve tried 8 different kinds and have experimented. I get plenty of magnesium from my diet though, but occasionally will take some at nighttime if I know that I didn’t get enough throughout the day. Many are deficient in magnesium or can’t absorb enough from foods to reach that suggested daily value of 400mg. It’s actually a crucial vitamin that everyone should be conscious of and start measuring how much the intake daily to restore overall health and happy burns

A magnesium deficiency increases the susceptibility of the pancreas towards disease, by elevating calcium concentrations. Elevated calcium is an established risk factor for pancreatic inflammation (pancreatitis). A pancreas that doesn’t function well will throw off your ability to utilize your foods and absorb these important vitamins, minerals, fats, carbs, fibers and proteins (it’s a domino effect). It’s required for the production of ATP which is the main source of energy in our cells, and the production of DNA, RNA, and proteins. It plays an important role in cell-to-cell communication and over 300 enzymes require the presence of magnesium to function properly.

Important for:
-Bone health
-Muscle contraction and relaxation
-Heart rhythm and blood pressure
-Stabilizing blood glucose levels, and regulating sugar and fat metabolisms
-Neurotransmitter production and regulation
-Neural function
-The immune system

[WickedMadScientist]

Lately I have been soaking my leaf in hot water, lemon juice (don't measure, but eyeball around 1 TBS) and an eyeballed TSP of MCT oil. It most definitely is making it work significantly better than a simple toss and wash. I haven't tried doing the lemon before it... I may have to experiment.

Oddly enough, I notice that if I have acid reflux, my kratom seems to hit harder. I am on a PPI due to extreme acid reflux issues (tried everything I could naturally to knock it out, even changed my diet and cut coffee, cooked tomatoes, etc.) so my stomach is a little different than most. This morning I woke up with a bit of acid reflux from dinner last night, and my morning burn is one of the best I've had in a long time, and it was leaf that normally is just okay for me. This is not the first time thats happened. I've noticed that after a night of drinking and eating tons of garbage/fried foods, I wake up and have a bit of acid reflux that even my medication can't control. I take my morning dose and it slaps better than normal. I am now trying to piece together why. Maybe my stomach is too alkaline normally for it to work?

Hey Float, just a suggestion have you ever tried supplementing essential amino acids on an empty stomach, and taking digestive enzymes and a probiotic with food. It’s an amazing protocol, Seed is a fantastic probiotic btw.

698AD21A-A520-447A-B897-950C71695F89.jpeg

There’s recent literature pointing at the fact that heart burn, reflux, IBS is an issue with improper levels of digestive enzymes, and not enough stomach acid, not too much like the drug companies have made us believe. They have done a lot of damage on this situation, they don’t address pancreas and gut function and long term increase your risk for cancers to develop.

[fusedflora]

Great post my dude!

To add to this, most people don’t realize that the water they drink is acidic and “dead water”. Reverse osmosis water is a great technology but it’s water that has been stripped of its trace mineral content. If you aren’t adding a pinch of sea salt to it, when you consume it on an empty stomach it acts like an anti-nutrient, pulls in electrolytes from your body (in a sense robbing you) and other minerals and you piss them out leaving you deficient, and acidic. Most bottled water is junk, even some “Alkaline” waters are junk. Your safest bet is to just add the pinch of some good, non processed Celtic salt or Himalayan Salt that retain all the minerals you’d find in some fresh spring water and that levels out the PH and removes the anti-nutrient aspect. Now, of course if you are eating a meal and salt your food, no need to salt the water ^_^

Completely agree. Alkaline water seems to be the most productive for me and what I can determine scientifically. There's certainly distilled, but essential and smart water are now selling pH 9+ water that work wonders. Coupled with the alkaline diet that I've hinted at above, this significantly increases the body's ability to make kratom bioavailable. I would wager this would likely be the single best method to get the best bang for the buck in a burn, just achieve body alkalinity.

[Matt30L]

Turmeric never helped potentiate in my prior experiences with it.

[fusedflora]

Turmeric never helped potentiate in my prior experiences with it.

yea, maybe the placebo of the first couple, but after that, I've not come to the conclusion that's it's beneficial to potentiate. Reseting, now that's a different story.

[Sanbutsushin]

What a gem of a thread!

I've noticed that on various non-Double-M websites (reddit, social media etc) people will claim that everything under the sun is a potentiator. You get the common ones like turmeric, pepper and grapefruit juice, but in the past week or two I've seen: magnesium, zinc, chocolate milk, yogurt, butter, peanut butter, naltrexone(?!), elderberries, papayas, cough medicines... and many more I'm forgetting. It's enough to make my head spin.

[BlatePapes]

Great post my dude!

To add to this, most people don’t realize that the water they drink is acidic and “dead water”. Reverse osmosis water is a great technology but it’s water that has been stripped of its trace mineral content. If you aren’t adding a pinch of sea salt to it, when you consume it on an empty stomach it acts like an anti-nutrient, pulls in electrolytes from your body (in a sense robbing you) and other minerals and you piss them out leaving you deficient, and acidic. Most bottled water is junk, even some “Alkaline” waters are junk. Your safest bet is to just add the pinch of some good, non processed Celtic salt or Himalayan Salt that retain all the minerals you’d find in some fresh spring water and that levels out the PH and removes the anti-nutrient aspect. Now, of course if you are eating a meal and salt your food, no need to salt the water ^_^

Completely agree. Alkaline water seems to be the most productive for me and what I can determine scientifically. There's certainly distilled, but essential and smart water are now selling pH 9+ water that work wonders. Coupled with the alkaline diet that I've hinted at above, this significantly increases the body's ability to make kratom bioavailable. I would wager this would likely be the single best method to get the best bang for the buck in a burn, just achieve body alkalinity.

Wow, this is extremely interesting. What's so funny is that I've recommended epsom salt and turmeric combined in a pape to so many people.. but for about a year now we've been buying only distilled water and remineralizing it with Himalayan pink salt. Maybe this is what's helping us, whereas the turmeric may not be.. thanks for the post bro!