Spirits ,good or evil?

[beathappening]

There's one difference between you and I. I take the scientific method, its evidence, and application as truth. More than that, it's the definition of truth by which everything else must be judged by. Apparently you don't subscribe to that notion, which is your prerogative, so this really is an exercise in futility to have a discussion or argument when we disagree on the basic fundamentals at what makes a debate a debate, and the basic groundrules of how presenting our thoughts, or in your case, feelings and gut instincts

Like Fleetwood Mac once so poignantly put it, you can go your way. And no, I don't have to respect your point of view, but I respect your ability to have it. So I guess that's where that leaves us. And I for one have no issue leaving it where it be.

[brave777]

Back then when i was religious, i talked about God. Religion also has a place to be no matter how much it is manipulated. My manager was an atheist. I talked about God and shared personal stories. He brushed it off.

One time I was working he comes up with a very serous face, and starts going telling me how his son died in the hospital, and he pray God if he gives him one more chance he will change everything around. Son started to breath. Ever since his whole manager office is filled with scripts from bible on the wall. There is a place for science just like for a religions person that Jesus is the only way. One thing everyone agrees science cant explain a lot of things but they know it works, be it paranormal, or near death experience. You cant explain how a dead person saw everything that happened to his body, every single word what everyone said about him/her. When they start to breath, they go in detail what everyone talked about. So scientific explanation would be the brain was hallucinating and yet they dont know how the victim knew everything, even what everyone dressed and looked like. There is some really good science just like medicine that is being hidden from major population. You will get gems leak out here and there but gold nuggets? forget about it.

Not sure if you did any study in after life, but i think you will find this scientific study of afterlife interesting.
https://www.near-death.com/science.html

[Oletimer]

Very interesting, Brave 777, ,,,my mom did have a death experience,,she flat lined twice, ,she said she could see the surgeons working on her,she describes it as floating above her body,then the tunnel,a light at the end, ,a voice saying it was not time, the, light faded and she was back in her body, ,,she was pregnant, , her appendix burst, got septic poisoning, back in the 50s anyhow she would have died, but the baby absorbed a lot of the septic, ,she's always been religious, but not fanatical, ,I lost a sister,but I have my mom,,because of her experience, she is not fearful of death,,,,

[brave777]

Very interesting, Brave 777, ,,,my mom did have a death experience,,she flat lined twice, ,she said she could see the surgeons working on her,she describes it as floating above her body,then the tunnel,a light at the end, ,a voice saying it was not time, the, light faded and she was back in her body, ,,she was pregnant, , her appendix burst, got septic poisoning, back in the 50s anyhow she would have died, but the baby absorbed a lot of the septic, ,she's always been religious, but not fanatical, ,I lost a sister,but I have my mom,,because of her experience, she is not fearful of death,,,,

Yeah, it all started for me when parents took me to funerals at church when some one died each time. Girl gets drowned at sea, i am there looking at her at the funeral. A family dies in a house fire by smoke, i am there looking at them. ETC. Made me question, when i was young i started reading way to many near-death stories and got way to bored with it. near-death.com has tons of experiences shared. that's where my study started until i moved on to other subjects. Then i realized we are getting manipulated on all levels and other dimensions too. I loved the matrix movie. I am convinced those who go to the light get there mind swiped clean before they reincarnate. there is other methods to get in reincarnation if wish too remember glimpses of your past life. I will reveal a secret now that will stop reincarnation cycle. If you see the light, instead going to the light, think of your home planet or the originality where you came here in a first place, you will end up in the right place. Don't hurry so fast to go to the light tunnel.

Now i will bring an religious manipulation example.

Lets say you are a christian and you believe that Jesus is the only way. You die, you see Jesus just how you imagined no different. If you saw Jesus black with beard, thats how you will see him, if it was white with long hair and beautiful smile, that's how you w9ll see him. I ll explain later why this happens. So Jesus takes you by your hand and brings you to heaven. Beautiful river with such perfect green grass and awesome tree perfect tree's with perfect tasty fruits. Very intelligent animals walk around, everything in harmony. From a christian perceptive you think this is it, final meet up with Jesus, and this is the heaven. Then Jesus asks you to go back that you still have to learn more lessons. You agree to everything. ITS JESUS! Next thing you know you end up on earth born as a baby. Does this ever end. I dont think so.

Now let me explain, everything you allowed to happen to you is you used your WILL to allow it to happen be it trough manipulations not knowing any better. Now is Jesus really JESUS? If you study on earth enough esoteric stuff you will know you have to check the source and DNA of all entities you meet out there who claim to be your GOD, dont matter if its JESUS, BHUDA OR KRISHNA. you will find out its none of the above, once their true form changes into ET weird looking small monster creature. You will get pissed. Or most common Jesus form takers are Reptilians, they are the masters of manipulation. They capture your perfect heaven and they know how you picture Jesus to look like. They cant wait till you reincarnate, you are like food to them when you are on earth, they feed off the crazy energy spikes humans have. So of course you have to learn other lessons on earth which you probably did thousands of times same lessons in other life times. Are all Reptilians bad? No! Just like humans there are honest and good once that understand love and connection to source which is God or call it Universe. I am I saying there are different entities controlling different religions? No, but very possible. If you really knew who you are, you would make any entities shit their pants for GOOD.

Any way that one of the forms how manipulation works. Also if you want to reincarnate to this earth or other planets it best done always from your home planet or source where you became to just be. I do think there is tons of light traps all over earth, so knowing this info will help anyone avoid it once time comes. And always remember to check any so called God their true DNA source, and true shape. There are many wanna be's.

[beathappening]

My problem with these, is while they're all nice anecdotes, there's no backing in hard science of fact. they could all just be coincidence. If God existed and is important, wouldn't he show us a more concrete and convincing way of telling us disbelievers "I told you so?" Certainly that is within his powers instead it's just these somewhat compelling stories that have no truth but just a "I told you so" element or a "well how could you NOT believe after hearing that brother?" Well for me, if isn't enough. For miracles to be substantiated, they need to be put through rigorous testing, where certain aspects and ratios are duplicated in order to replicate the exact conditionds of the "miracle". Now I know you must be thinking, there's way there conditions can be replicated and this guy is just asking for near possible conditions to prove his point. Well yeah that's what I'm saying if it can't be replicated more than once in a scientific community than it's just an anomaly. It'd be lovely to prove real miracles exist, I just think it always comes down to coincide aka dumb luck it's just part of the scientific method you have to be able to replicate things In the same conditions, no matter how strange they may be. That's what we mean when say "proof". It's not always an easy task, and scientists havde deddicated their entire career and their life to try to just prove or disprove a proposition. It's a very personal and serious quest, not at all to be taken lightly, and there's true emotions involved.so I'm not making fun when it comes to these things in a scientific. But on the other token, people masquerading as legitimate science in hopes of proving themselves it to be taken seriously and should not be attempted in bad faith, not saying that is what is happening here. But as a scientist we are natural born skeptics and everyone other combination must be exhausted, until we are left with one...there one conclusion. It's rigorous, time.consuming, and mentally and physically draining. But it is absolutely necessary. That's my spiel, I'm not taking spiritual sides that's the way I think it ought to be. Thanks for reading.

[Oletimer]

That's a lot of food for thought igndeed, BRAVE this article was interesting _____With an estimated 400 billion stars in our own galaxy alone, it’s insane to think that at least tens of millions of those stars don’t harbor planets with intelligent life. And some of that life must be — by sheer chance alone — millions of years more advanced than our own civilization (which is barely a few thousand years old). It’s not “fringe” to believe that extraterrestrials exist in our galaxy… it’s fringe to think that they don’t._____One fact is clear: if we assign a zero prior probability for such evidence coming our way, as some scientists did in the case of ‘Oumuamua by invoking the principle “it’s never aliens,” we will indeed never find any. We will be like ostriches burying our heads in the sand. In fact, this attitude may be one sign that our intelligence isn’t very impressive—that the human race as a whole suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect, in which those with mediocre abilities insist that they’re unusually talented or smart. /// Einstein, ,geniuses, ,were they somehow altered, to help us make leaps in technology, etc.? Humm

[beathappening]

By the way my edits were all correcting small spelling and grammatic errors. I wasn't changing my overall thesis. Typing.on a phone has its downsides.

[Oletimer]

[quote]eathappening » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:01 pm

There's one difference between you and I. I take the scientific method, its evidence, and application as truth. More than that, it's the definition of truth by which everything else must be judged by/ //my only reply to this is___________It’s difficult to observe today’s scientific establishment and not see it as a kind of obedience cult that demands absolute conformity to all its core beliefs, no matter how sharply such beliefs contradict physical reality.

[Oletimer]

Why I have issues with scientific approach is this exerpt from Scientific American ///// a hindrance to humanity.

Rather than the quest for knowledge, the “science” of today has become a destroyer of knowledge and an enforcer of false facts. This is how we end up with a scientific establishment that pushes false, delusional ideas such as the assertion that vaccines never harm anyone even when the government’s Health and Human Services department releases quarterly statistics on the number of children who have been harmed, hospitalized or killed by vaccines.

The “science” establishment has failed humanity (and isn’t really rooted in science at all)

As operated today, “science” has failed humanity. But that’s only because it isn’t real science at all. Real science would focus on the quest for knowledge and the sharing of that knowledge, but what we see today is the organized destruction of knowledge, censorship of knowledge and the de-funding of any science investigation that might threaten the profit interests of powerful corporations that manufacture pharmaceuticals, herbicides or vaccines.

For example, the vaccine industry has now managed to convince every major tech platform (including Vimeo, MailChimp, Facebook, Google, Twitter and others) to censor all criticism of vaccines or their ingredients, effectively silencing any analysis that documents risks in vaccine ingredients or vaccine administration to very young infants. This censorship demand of the vaccine industry is rooted in intellectual bigotry with the claim that, “Vaccine science can never be wrong.” The absurd insistence that the vaccine industry — run by imperfect human beings — can never make a mistake (even when many vaccines have been recalled over the decades, and even when the U.S. government has already paid out billions of dollars in settlements to families of vaccine damaged children) is indicative of the depths of intellectual dishonesty and medical fascism

[Oletimer]

I guess these experiences could be called miracles /A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Such an event may be attributed to a supernatural being, magic, a kmiracle worker, a saint, or a religious leader. Prayer Wikipedia
// but anyhow,Had to edit this,,I thought about it, And _____One fact is clear: if we assign a zero prior probability for such evidence coming our way, we will indeed never find any. We will be like ostriches burying our heads in the sand.,

[Oletimer]

I am 63,soon, the older we are the more miracles we've experienced, I thought the birth of my kids,grandkids were miracles,the fact I survived the 60s / 70s was a miracle,,hahaha! Dang, Eisenhower was president when I was born,,,geez

[beathappening]

I'm not going to respond to four of your posts, other than science is not a cult or a faith, it's a method of observation where you advance a hypothesis, test it, and if it's wrong, continue to tweak it until the results match the the hypothesis you originally. Granted, that extremely simplified but it really doesn't seem like you understand the basis of the scientific method at it's core. It's based on experimentation, hypotheses, further experiments, and testing testing testing. I honestly you think you misunderstand what the scientific method truly is. It's not a cult, it's not a faith, it's s way of testing to hone a very specific hypothesusis. I'm not going to to lecture you on the simple,. beautiful way the scientific method works. Your way based on faith, mine based on observations. I would encourage you to to do a rudimentary study on what science actually is but I can see you're far too stuck in your ways. And I'm certainly not going to forsake "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment (source: Google)" to debase my beliefs based on nothing but one-off personal unprovable experiences. Oh but that's right, you need proof. Why you try do hard to convince me of it is beyond mr So... perhaps we should leave it at that. I've honestly done too much science vs religion/spiritualism debates to last me a life time, and no one ever changes their mind. If you want to take it as a win, go right ahead.

[trigger]

"The scientific truth is better. You shouldn't let poets lie to you." - Bjork (1988)

[Oletimer]

As far as topic, good, evil,,,I think so in spirits,,what about the ones that take on human form? I remember seeing documentaries about these cases,,like where someone out of the blue appears,,pulls a victim out of a burning car,and disappears as quickly as they appeared,,idk what you call them, ,but my family,not me, witnessed an incident like this,,they were at the river, sitting on the beach,people,kids swimming in the river, anyhow a group of people down stream started hollering for help,,a young boy was drowning, caught up in the current, a man, dressed in a coat, appeared from the bush,walked into the river and pulled the boy to safety, as soon as the family turned around to thank this stranger, he was gone, ,my uncle told my dad "that was an angel" ,, some folks ran up the beach to find this man, pretty open area,,no where to disappear to so quickly,,gone ,,my uncle said there are some angels that can take on human form,to serve a purpose on earth,like saving people near death, it's not their time,,idk,,,there's a whole lot of things that happen, we don't know what or why,,I need to find that documentary,

[Oletimer]

I've had 1 experience, near death,, ,,hell,I'll just tell it,,I had went to er, I thought it was appendix, but turned out I was pregnant, ,I was in denial, they released me to go to Dr I had seen years earlier, he sent me home and said if pain got worse, to call, I was visiting my parents,I was sleeping on couch and about 4 am I woke up in horrific pain,,I had a tubal pregnancy that burst, bleeding internally, I tried several times to get up and wake my folks up to call 911,everytime I stood up I'd get faint and drop back on the couch,I was drained of energy,just wanted to lay down, that's when I felt a push on my shoulder ,more like a shove, and I rolled to the floor,at the same time I heard a voice saying crawl, crawl now,very stern voice ,so I crawled on my belly,pulling and pushing with arms and legs, to my folks bedroom, I didn't get faint, cause I wasn't raising my head,they called 911 and I laid on the floor in front of their door,,I was going in shock from the loss of blood,but I felt like I was in total euphoria, ,I remember the paramedics couldn't get a BP reading, and I got upset they cut my new nightgown to get those things stuck on my heart,chest, and next thing I remember was waking up after emergency surgery, the dr. Said it looked like a bomb blew up in my female parts,and how a matter of arriving 5 minutes later I'd be dead,,it took 2 bags of transfusions to replace all the blood loss inside my womb, moral of the story I'll never forget that shove on my shoulder that made me roll to the floor, or that voice, telling me to "crawl, NOW, ,"guardian angel? IDK but I was ready to just lay there I had given up, something pushed me, ,I guess it wasn't my time?

[brave777]

beathappening and trigger want direct step by step instruction how and why stuff happens. Like kratom stories, its all anecdotes. Just want to point out that they have there reasons, maybe one day they will get that step by step science on how and why with all the understanding of spirit world. There is thousands of stories they can read up if they want or already did. As a skeptic my self i can see where they coming from, i been there until got my personal stories that happened to me, which i don't and wont share with scientific so called community because there is no point in it, because their science sucks. Real science step by step is with the Elites and secret groups that practice magic, they the once hide all the real Medicine and give you the big pharma with a chemotherapy. Just want to point out, Oletimer your storie and many other similar stories is legit, you dont need to prove anything at all to anyone. Anomaly happen in any part of the world, it does not ask for color or what religion you are. Its like reminder to others there is something out there watching us that we dont know yet (some people do). Maybe one day Humans on evolutionary path will out smart all the beings out there but for now even if they watchers manipulate us, they are the middle man to understanding stuff. I dont think anyone has to believe anything, best listeners, listen to everyone, thank them and move on. Next think you know you have 100 similar stories that you can make a picture out of it how its all connected. But if you are against all or the first anomaly you hear that science don't back up (your science), you wont be able to make that philosophical picture. Most smartest writers int he past are philosopher. I think because they just gather info as much as possible no matter how weird it is to see if they can make sense of it. There is a lot of stuff i dont understand, and i am sure i might of been manipulated to some degree but i at least stay open minded and question ON.

[trigger]

How would you know what I want? All I did was quote 80s and 90s Icelandic pop icon Bjork. People who want step by step instruction and explanations for every little thing turn to religion - not science. If science explained everything, religion wouldn’t exist.

Also, I wish you guys would use paragraph breaks. I haven’t read most of this thread because I can’t get through walls of text like these.

Also, since I’m not religious or spiritual, and don’t believe in ghosts or magic or whatever, I didn’t want to get all involved. Some people need their faith. I don’t get anything out of disproving belief systems of people when they aren’t using them to hurt other people.

[brave777]

I am confused if you didnt want debate or get involved then why post? I claim nothing, i accept good science and their are two different science out there. If you got some good science its all hallucination please post. I am all for a great piece of info. To me you are an intelligent being, if dont want to be part of it, there is always to avoid post unless you got some debating info. That's how we evolve is by seeing different perspectives and sides. I know some smart ass cool Atheists and I know some dumb once, same thing with religious people, they no different then atheists that they think so much of them selfs. I do understand and see there is hardcore democrats and hardcore republicans, there is people on this forum from different walks of life with different set of beliefs. We just got to be open to not attack because that leaves it always to dead end. Instead, best to ask how or why it makes them think this way or that way, maybe there is a long interesting story behind why certain individual see things differently. Even if its not scientific at least it will be a fun read.

[trigger]

All I did was quote Bjork. It showed up in my fb memories from years ago, and I thought it would be funny and apropos. Here’s Bjork talking about her television - perhaps the answer is in here...https://youtu.be/75WFTHpOw8Y

[brave777]

"So you become hypnotized so all that on TV, it just goes directly into your brain and you stop judging if its right or not so you just swallow and swallow."
Then she says that's what a poet told her, and then she read scientific truth. What truth? she lost me there. Poet is still right, millions getting swallowed by big mac commercials and all the new pills with tons of side effects. Unless she was sarcastic. Notice, she read scientific truth. I like how she talks, pretty cool.

[beathappening]

Well this thread has gone from worse to shit. Please continue. Science is a faith! Science hates transgenders! Do transgrdender spirit exist, and do they transition before or after spiriting away? Miyazaki is a homophobe? That's what I read! Is the word homophone homophobic? Standley Kubrick directed 9/11!!

[trigger]

Must be my fault. No love for Bjork around here I guess. Science doesn’t not support transphobia. Bad science and stupid bigoted people misusing it support transphobia. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... ansphobia/

[brave777]

Well this thread has gone from worse to shit. Please continue. Science is a faith! Science hates transgenders! Do transgrdender spirit exist, and do they transition before or after spiriting away? Miyazaki is a homophobe? That's what I read! Is the word homophone homophobic? Standley Kubrick directed 9/11!!

Reason why science is faith to me, because its mostly inside box. And politicians can use the word science any way or shape they wish to manipulate sheep. Not until i see some real step by step science, i ll change my mind. For now science will be just faith. Just like Christians having a personal God Jesus, no different just another angle. And its not shit, its just sharing different perspectives.

On the part of gender, my take is we all were male and female in many different life forms. When not in a body, i guess you are called just " IT" Since you dont have a physical body, i dont know. I do think kids cant make a choice when young what gender they want to be, that is the most evil things some groups can do is push this stuff on kids, that can ruin there life when they understand what happened at adult age, so much time wasted. If you born a male, take the role of it and play as a male, if female, take advantage to be all the female you can be, make your self look pretty, paints nails. what ever, just enjoy while you here. I do understand if many lifes you been a male and some how you ended up in female body, it can be very very hard, do your best to be the female you can or vice versa. Its just part of being in the body and life experience. This is my personal thought on this.

Who you are right now is all the quality's you had from past life's. If want to change something, work on it right now so next life's if have one it wont show its ugly face. In other words, If something you don't like about yourself and somehow it manifests into your life, most likely you had those quality's in other life's.

Something else just came to me, i remember watching this video on YT, not sure by who, was talking about pets have a high chance to be something better, if it learned a lot of stuff from the owner even possible to reincarnate into human. Regular animals just keep up with their own soul groups, only those change that are around humans. Now there is no claims, this is just philosophy,.

[Oletimer]

Belief in aliens could be America’s next religion

‘American Cosmic’ explores how the once-fringe phenomenon has taken root among the powerful.

POWER
BELIEF IN ALIENS COULD BE AMERICA’S NEXT RELIGION
‘American Cosmic’ explores how the once-fringe phenomenon has taken root among the powerful.



Clare Coffey MAR—18—2019 09:16AM EST
The aliens have landed.

Or at least, they’re about to. That’s a reasonable takeaway when a renowned Harvard astronomer publicly declares, without apparent fear of repercussion, that he believes an alien spaceship may be orbiting our planet.


I
INTELLIGENT EDGE

But that seems to be changing. A new book by D.W. Pasulka — professor and chair of the department of philosophy and religion at the University of North Carolina Wilmington — American Cosmic: UFOs Religion, and Technology, focuses not on grassroots investigative societies or marginal cults, but on UFO believers in the halls of power.

Her narrative begins on a drive through the hills with pioneering computer scientist, venture capitalist, and ufologist Jacques Vallee. “Silicon Valley is full of secrets,” he tells her. It ends in the Vatican Secret Archives (alas, not because the Ultimate Clue lies steganographically hidden in a Templar codex).

Along the way, Pasulka meets “Tyler,” a biomedical technology mogul associated with the U.S. space program. Tyler is the most curious part of a curious book. Like most of the scientists, government researchers, and tech giants Pasulka quotes, Tyler’s real name remains a secret. But Pasulka has presumably done scholarly due diligence on his background, which would otherwise be hard to believe: Tyler has over 40 biotech patents to his name, many of which he believes were communicated to him by non-human intelligence. He works in a government program where, according to him, the kind of intricate security-clearance labyrinths one might find in an X-Files episode are the norm. “I don’t know who is responsible for putting me on these jobs. I think that somehow they are responsible for it. My own direct boss doesn’t know what I do. This is how the program works.”

Pasulka describes him breezing through airports without getting stopped by security: “We arrived at the airport, and Tyler sailed right past security, past first class, past economy class, and out the other side. He seemed to be literally beyond the law.” His name unlocks doors at the Vatican. In his official capacity as a researcher with the U.S. space program, one of his roles is merely to be at certain places at certain times — his superiors believe, apparently that his physical presence produces certain outcomes at experiments and rocket launches.

“Certain outcomes,” is frustrating circumlocution, but it embodies a tension fundamental to the book. Pasulka documents the end of a long cultural shift regarding UFOs, as it moves from a marginal fringe to a major belief system. Part of this shift is what Jacques Vallee calls the “Invisible College,” the network of credentialed, well-placed researchers seriously investigating the phenomenon. “The phenomenon” is Vallee’s carefully neutral term for the collection of commonly attested events and effects that make up “UFO” sightings. The term is useful for those trying to apply a scientific or scholarly framework, because it makes no claims about the origins. And in fact, Vallee does not believe that what people commonly identify as extraterrestrials actually come from space. Vallee is agnostic on their actual origins, but at various points has posited that they may be some sort of window into another dimension, or an illusion created for psychological
The social credibility of the “invisible college” could potentially lend a valuable gravitas to belief in the phenomenon, if they were to come forward. But for now, stigma or the protocols of the member’s work enforce silence and anonymity. At a moment where the UFO is betwixt and between — almost,

However, none of this secrecy necessarily suggests a conspiracy, unless it’s the same conspiracy that has dogged every system that moved from marginal belief to massive social leverage. To decent Romans, Christianity was a weird and possibly sorcerous cult practiced by rednecks and illiterates — until suddenly it was the force behind the empire. The Mormons were unwelcome freaks who believed in seer stones, indigenous American Israelites, and polygamy. Now they’re the face of clean-cut American success west of the Rockies.

Polling shows that 35 percent of Americans believe that extraterrestrials came to earth in the past, and 26 percent believe that aliens have visited in modern times. This in itself does not necessarily make a new religion. Americans also believe, to varying degrees, in ghosts, Atlantis, and telekinesis. But according to Pasulka, UFO beliefs display other classic indicators of religion: sacred sites, sacred revelations, and testimony by credible witnesses to miraculous events.


At one point, Pasulka travels to an unnamed site in New Mexico. Accompanying her are Tyler and Pasulka’s own colleague “James,” an astrophysicist at a prestigious university, and not only a UFO believer, but a repeat contactee. (He finds the phenomenon unwelcome, and describes it as something that in earlier times would be called “demonic.”) The unidentified mesa is allegedly the site of a spacecraft crash many years ago. Tyler has obtained special permission for the two academics to visit and look for artifacts, on the condition that they travel blindfolded.

The sense of sci-fi melodrama does not decrease from there. The researchers do in fact find an artifact, a piece of material that shuts down an airport luggage scanner on the way home.

“The material looked like crumpled tinfoil that was also a type of fabric. It was clumped with dirt and debris.”

Pasulka cannot shake the suspicion that it was planted for her to find, that the whole thing was a setup. Eventually though, a team of scientists determines that the object is highly anomalous, unlike any known material on earth.

“In religious studies, this would be a miracle, either a miraculous object or a miraculous event, such as a healing. Of course, this is not how Tyler and James would speak about the site, but it is my assessment. The sites in New Mexico function as the sacred sites of a new religion… They are the places of a hierophany, where non-human beings descended to earth and left us a ‘donation’ as James, chuckling, once called it.”

A hierophany is a revelation of a sacred being, and Pasulka is not the first to make the connection between the descent of glowing saucers and glowing angels. Erich von Dänikan’s Chariot of The Gods gave rise to the cheerfully mendacious Ancient Aliens, which re-interprets almost every major ancient civilization’s religious and cultural legacy as the work of visiting extraterrestrials.

Despite the undeniable goofiness of (and racist assumptions involved in) Giorgio A. Tsoukalos’ project, the “biblical UFO hermeneutic” has become popular. Adherents point to the Bible’s more bizarre manifestations of divine presence as indications that the Abrahamic religions are built on misidentified extraterrestrial encounters. For instance, Ezekiel’s wheel, traditionally believed to be revelation of the ineffable and awful Lord of hosts, is better understood as a spaceship.

To the degree that alien religion is parasitic on established scriptures and traditions, it resembles what sociologist Daniel O’Keefe calls a magical protest sect. These sects arise when dominant organized religion feels too restrictive or lifeless. They expropriate aspects of the religions they protest, and repurpose them in ways that allow participants to directly manipulate the sacred.

Thus, there’s no need to submit to restrictive ethical codes or interact with desiccated or corrupt ecclesial bureaucracies. You can “call down” UFOs from the skies yourself, as one of Pasulka’s interviewees does. Or, like Tyler, you can develop a personal protocol that will allow you to “interface” with a higher intelligence and creative source.

“I basically believe, and there is evidence for this, that our DNA is a receptor and a transmitter,” he claims. “It works at a certain frequency — The same frequency, in fact, that we use to communicate with satellites in deep space. Humans are a type of satellite, in fact. So, in order to receive the signals and to transmit the signals, we have to tune our physical bodies and DNA. Because of this, I make sure I sleep really well… I rarely drink alcohol, as it interferes with my sleep, and I never drink coffee. Coffee really messes up the signal.”

[Oletimer]

Fundamental Errors of Philosophy
The error of assuming only scientific knowledge matters (this statement is philosophical, and thus beyond the realm of science).
The error of assuming that everything is material (this is a trickery of including their conclusion in their premise). We don’t need to begin by assuming that non-spiritual realities exist, as this can be proven so long as you don’t automatically discount that evidence like atheists wrongly assume.
A similar error is assuming all causal chains are linear. If a ball hits another or two mice make babies we have linear reactions but some causation requires a power on a level above it. For example, although I and a kitten can press keyboard letters, it requires intelligence to write coherently.

[Jkray]

This whole topic was paranormal experiences,,nothing was mentioned about religion , til trigger and beater got into t.

[Oletimer]

Brave 777,, I totally agree with the statement, your take on this /////. I do think kids cant make a choice when young what gender they want to be, that is the most evil things some groups can do is push this stuff on kids, that can ruin there life when they understand what happened at adult age, so much time wasted.///// I think this new trend about not assigned sex of a new born baby,young children is toxic, a boy for instance not being taught that he's a boy,,when young,,is going to create a generation of #!#×#!, who is man, who is woman? When your older, what, 10 or older, and your child shows tendencies, ,,now they take their kid to get tested for tendencies,,so they can let the kid embrace his true self, but what's that? Attractions to same sex,need to wear dresses, later transgender,,on and on that's fine but they are pushing it too far starting at birth,,children learn by being taught,,if that doesn't feel right as they approach pre teens, they can recognize it themselves,,how do they know if they are feeling drawn to feminism if everyone is running around sexless, it's sick . Babies will be victims of the whole thing, ,arggg,

[brave777]

Brave 777,, I totally agree with the statement, your take on this /////. I do think kids cant make a choice when young what gender they want to be, that is the most evil things some groups can do is push this stuff on kids, that can ruin there life when they understand what happened at adult age, so much time wasted.///// I think this new trend about not assigned sex of a new born baby,young children is toxic, a boy for instance not being taught that he's a boy,,when young,,is going to create a generation of #!#×#!, who is man, who is woman? When your older, what, 10 or older, and your child shows tendencies, ,,now they take their kid to get tested for tendencies,,so they can let the kid embrace his true self, but what's that? Attractions to same sex,need to wear dresses, later transgender,,on and on that's fine but they are pushing it too far starting at birth,,children learn by being taught,,if that doesn't feel right as they approach pre teens, they can recognize it themselves,,how do they know if they are feeling drawn to feminism if everyone is running around sexless, it's sick . Babies will be victims of the whole thing, ,arggg,

I know, i read somewhere by the year 2133 there will be 500 million people, that's the agenda. This is not the only issue, in 10-30 or so years people will start to marry robots in japan then it will spread to other country's, you can order a child robot or adult, put em to sleep go on vacation, come back, wake em up. Robots that can perform sexual acts as wished when ever. Or do house duty's. It will get to the point when reproduction will not be needed. I guess for this we will have to wait and see. You are right, babies already victims, they get tons of shots when born. My friend and his wife went to natural born clinic, like the old days, zero vaccination to the kid, she is one smart baby when they take her to check ups, they are surprised how how much faster response time she is only few months in, healthy and very happy. His wife feeds only breast milk, not fake bad for babys fluoride baby food. Now they have all the water for baby section with fluoride added, it literally says with fluoride! Then we wonder why so many sick kids out there.

[beathappening]

Where's Nurse Ratchet? She's gotta work to do

[trigger]

I don’t know much about spirits, but transphobia and anti-vax definitely fall into the “evil” category.

[Oletimer]

Anti vax? Evil? If your child were a victim, you would do your research, :doctor confirmed it, fortunately the % is small,,but research has proved it MMR VACCINE BTW, transphobia is a totally different subject than the movement to Not assigning gender to a newborn, ,You have a baby,if it's a boy do you dress him as a a boy or in dresses too,,I doubt it,,,that's the evil movement,,let kids decide for themselves when they are old enough to recognize it,,no phobia, common sense,babies are innocent,,movements using the innocence of a baby ,that's evil, and as far as mmr vaccines, if you had a child or grandchild with the gene,you would have researched, before kids are vaccinated, should be tested 1st for the gene,so they aren't victims of medical science Pharmaceutical companies are some of the largest money-making businesses

[beathappening]

Kids need to be vaccinated no questions asked. That's a no brainier. Transgender is a TOTALLY different issue and should be a childs choice. Apples and oranges if there ever were ever sm example. Vaccinations should be mandatory at the appropriate age. it's a public health issue, transgenderism and like minded issues are a choice. Just how religion is s choice. Not getting your child vaccinated Is s form of abuse and completely irresponsible for the adult. These.things seem completely uncontroversial to me I find anntivaxxers offensive, it's like it's own form of trolling. Why do you think there have been recent increases in tuberculosis, chicken.pox, malaria, etc it's no coincidence. These diseases have been cured for hundreds of years.

[brave777]

Kids need to be vaccinated no questions asked. That's a no brainier. Transgender is a TOTALLY different issue and should be a childs choice. Apples and oranges if there ever were ever sm example. Vaccinations should be mandatory at the appropriate age. it's a public health issue, transgenderism and like minded issues are a choice. Just how religion is s choice. Not getting your child vaccinated Is s form of abuse and completely irresponsible for the adult. These.things seem completely uncontroversial to me I find anntivaxxers offensive, it's like it's own form of trolling. Why do you think there have been recent increases in tuberculosis, chicken.pox, malaria, etc it's no coincidence. These diseases have been cured for hundreds of years.

I dont think you did enough study into vaccines. but thats just my opinion. everyone welcome to do what ever they wish to their kids. I know if i ever have one, i will camp my wife side and make sure no retard sneaks in something weird. I will ask paper work for every shot, the once that are needed will pass and the once are bad wont... I think main problem parents dont read whats given to their kids. Same thing as everyone signs to get a cell phone but no one reads small print that if you keep it on your body, will have high chance to get cancer. Like men close to their ballz and women over their breasts. It can make you sterile. Once it happens its to late to fix it, prevent it with knowledge so you not going to say later should of could of. that shit will not fly.

Also on gender thing, i think right age for it 18 years old, like everything else if they want to remove and organ and make a vagina or add blow up parts to privet parts, then 18 years old is def the right age to decided, anything else is from corruption. They cant make a choice when you already made one for them, or a school starts dressing up you boy into dress and put nail polish to see if thats what they like. next thing you know he doing it at home. Those school should be banned. Period. Right now all school in Europe, have toys with privet parts starting kindergarten. I am sure soon will be here in USA as well, maybe its already is. So many videos i seen from Europe, where guys work, polish their nails and lips while women sit home. Feminazation in progress. I guess its cool we got kratom to keep us calm,

[beathappening]

You simply can not have a conversation with an antivaxxer. I will not debase myself to that level. I'll argue science vs relîgion, and even there pushing it,, but you may as have beem.aarguing t o even been drawn into an exchange with an antivaxxer, and I refuse to expend even one more iota doing you the service of proving you wrong. the fact that ..you began your excuse for a sentence with the word science is the definition of irony, downright scandalous and I can only hope for your unfortunate offspring that your father's greatest achievement in dumbest thing ever muttered may a human may be the impetus for a true revolution..
Congrats and may God .
who may or may lll leave to another disxxissjgc? your soul (whom I disagree exists but that's a other can of words
No hard feeelings

[brave777]

You simply can not have a conversation with an antivaxxer. I will not debase myself to that level. I'll argue science vs relîgion, and even there pushing it,, but you may as have beem.aarguing t o even been drawn into an exchange with an antivaxxer, and I refuse to expend even one more iota doing you the service of proving you wrong. the fact that ..you began your excuse for a sentence with the word science is the definition of irony, downright scandalous and I can only hope for your unfortunate offspring that your father's greatest achievement in dumbest thing ever muttered may a human may be the impetus for a true revolution..
Congrats and may God .
who may or may lll leave to another disxxissjgc? your soul (whom I disagree exists but that's a other can of words
No hard feeelings

not sure if you talking to me? all i understood is congrats and god bless, well thank you. If your all for vaccines, i suggest what this video becvause i dont understand what you mean debase your level???

Vaccine Pioneer Admits Adding CANCER CAUSING VIRUS to Vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeOt_uFPkg0

or more on monkey virus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r8Mw6D0bX4

[beathappening]

Put it this way, If you're an antivaxxer you're a socially irresponsible asshole.

[brave777]

Put it this way, If you're an antivaxxer you're a socially irresponsible asshole.

I am neither. I am against bad shit. And if your for it for humans to get sick, your irresponsible human being. I think me and you wont agree on this subject, i advice we agree to DISAGREE and move on. I enjoy your kratom reviews and other areas of this forum i agree. I dont understand why some have to prove something and be on defensive, attack mode. Why not just say, can we agree to DISAGREE on this subject? And move on?> At the end of the day we all sleep the same way and peaceful. There is 7 bill people and there will be always someone even family members will disagree with you, do you call them assholes too?

Edit: just to share my personal story with flu shot vaccines. I know right now they saying true numbers it might help 2%. I know i was forced to get them when i was little before school. Ever since then, not once i took it because i dont like needles. Later i did research on it. as i watched friends and some family members get very sick each time they got flu shot i was wondering why i didnt. You also have to stay away from them when they sick and just got flu shot, it does have a chance to jump over , not sure where i read this. I made sure i stayed away from them until they were well again after 3 to 4 weeks. I remember i told to 2 co-workers about flu-shots, they never took it, but the once who lined up for free flu-shots got very sick, and a lot were calling in because they were very sick. They def thanked me for opening their eyes up to this scam. Now inside flu-shot there is stuff that stay idle and can be activated in random times like a command sent to start the virus.

Just some more info where Bill Gates openly says vaccines to reduce population on CNN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjj4Iq- ... kOSZBbKlTW

Also his doctor reveals Bill Gates never Vaccinated his kids and strictly was against it!
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/bill-g ... -children/

Some food for thought to think about since your pro vaccination. if you do want to stop this debate i advice you tell me you agree to disagree on this subject. Then case will be closed.

[beathappening]

I know I get overly defensive it offensive on certain subjects. I just feel passionately about things ignorance and mysticism. And there are certain subjects I have absolutely zero tolerance for. You're right, I should hold my tongue, but it's difficult. Believe it or not, I am aware of this issue and actively try to work on it. It feels better coming to terms with someone I disagree with after the fact than it does to stay mad and continue to fume every time I see them after.

I will never EVER bend on vaccine and if you don't vaccimate we will never get along. Non vacinnators are indefensible and should be interned.

[brave777]

I know I get overly defensive it offensive on certain subjects. I just feel passionately about things ignorance and mysticism. And there are certain subjects I have absolutely zero tolerance for. You're right, I should hold my tongue, but it's difficult. Believe it or not, I am aware of this issue and actively try to work on it. It feels better coming to terms with someone I disagree with after the fact than it does to stay mad and continue to fume every time I see them after.

I will never EVER bend on vaccine and if you don't vaccimate we will never get along. Non vacinnators are indefensible and should be interned.

Yeah i understand you, that's choice. I dont vaccinate but i wouldn't say we will never get along, i like your post's a lot. My immune is very up there, i dont eat fast foods or most grocery foods. I try to eat as much as possible from family garden. I eat blueberry or least try to every morning while we have some while season didnt end and pick some to save for natural fruit punch. got some raspberry freeze earlier. I drink herbs that build my immune high just in case someone vaccinated and get's their immune system broken. Don't want none of that to jump on me. Now i know you disagree on that but thats just my view point. Everyone has the rights to believe what ever they want. Mystic or not or what ever you might have going for your self. Main part is it helping you? Or is it more self destructing? Does it hurt others? I love and enjoy talking to christian sheep population, they are so much fun and nicer people. Even if they dont know it, they mean good to other people but sometime install toxic controlling beliefs systems. As long as they dont push this is the only way or your in hell, debate will be on. Unless they agree to disagree, i shake there hand , give them respect , wish them good lick in life and go the other way. I am not anti or pro vaccine, i just know i dont need it and science right now says it only helps 2% if it even does. I dont need to clog my RNA/DNA with junk sleeper viruses that could be activated trough weird technologies. I believe everything needs to go trough your mouth and throat, if it by passes throat sensors with a needle, it cant fight or acknowledge the invaders. Unless you use pure oregano. It does eliminate a lot of extra crap but taste is so strong, i do oregano 1 drop in water every 2 weeks or so. Because i do eat from stores or some fast food if i travel.

https://www.amazon.com/Oregano-Strenght ... way&sr=8-3

Been using over 3 years and still have a lot, only 13$ but will last for ever. I also put 1 or 2 drops one Q tip and rub it on gum where tooth hurts. Which i did now, zero pain, just be careful not to over do it, because it will freeze your skin and numb it. Can i say it works the best, like best fire kratom out there. You wont need no expensive gels.. It is also good for gums in general, use Q tip and run all around upper and lower have once. Let it sit for 5 seconds then swish it with water. Oregano benefits are endless. Just to read some benefits, read some amazon reviews what people used it for. Just some extra tips if any lurkers here. This is a must have item in all family. I care about people that's why i share this since i am a good spirit living in this body. (Sorry, off the main subject since this suppose to be Spirits, good or evil)

[Oletimer]

Brave 777,thanks for sharing oregano oil,,my son has a lot of pain in gums where teeth were extracted months ago, and nerve pain I'n surrounding teeth,maybe this could help,,BTW, I'm 63 had 2 fle vaccines, both times I got flu,,only 2 times I ever had flu ,for me I say screw it,if it is not helping, why do it, I am not anti vax or pro either, I just know if it doesn't work for me, why do it, As far as off topic, beat did that early on,everyones passions are different, no need to be angered by someone else passions,why provoke people into anger with remarks, ,agree to disagree and leave it at that, , I could go on but I will leave it, ,,there's other factors here that explain the reasons, hope beat gets their anger worked out,,it's not healthy,