Thoughts on phenibut?

[The Relaxed Guy]

So I’m hearing more and more about this stuff called “phenibut”... and it sounds very, very, very interesting. I’ve recently been doing a lot of research on supplements to help with anxiety... and I’ve read very positive things about Phenibut.

Here are the primary things I’ve gathered about phenibut so far:

-It effects your GABA receptors similarly to alcohol or benzos

-It has an effect similar to alcohol and benzos, except without the intoxicating, clumsiness factor.

-It’s a very good anxiolytic, and demolishes social anxiety and depression

-(depending on dose) It causes a euphoria, a deeper appreciation for music, and other pleasurable effects

-It lasts all day, and takes around 3 hours to kick in

-It has nootropic effects, and many people use it before taking exams

-It can cause your body to naturally produce more HGH, and many users report incredible gains in muscularity

-It improves your workouts... increasing stamina and focus

-It’s extremely addicting if taken daily at higher doses, and has horrible WDs. Tolerance develops very quickly

- It’s advised to only take it 2x/week at maximum


It just sounds so crazy to me... It’s a euphoric anxiolytic, yet ALSO stimulates HGH production and enhances your workouts? WTF?

Anyone else know anything about this stuff? Anyone have any experience with it? My main take away so far is to use in moderation. But aside from that... it sounds like a very intriguing substance.

[herbalhippie]

I don't know a lot about it but my advice would be, stay away. I've seen some scary stories of addiction on Reddit.

[BlendsAreMyFriends]

HH is right. There were a few devotees on reddit but there were a lot of cautionary personal experience stories as well.

If you are a person that has no problem pre-setting limits and sticking with them you might want to see if it helps you but if you are the, "wow if one does that I wonder what four will do?" kind of person you might want to hold back on that.

[swablero]

-It’s extremely addicting if taken daily at higher doses, and has horrible WDs. Tolerance develops very quickly

You may enjoy it the first time you take it but the bottom line is it is not practical to take this more than very occasionally. It has a wicked body load so you'd better be young and healthy. You will feel extremely bad the next day especially if you cant sleep it off. I don't think you'll experience very many of those positive attributes more than once and it won't be worth it. It's a recreational drug so you better not be wired for addiction. Because of the quick tolerance buildup you'll end up doubling your dose every time if you're not careful. I have never herd of anyone not regretting they started with that. Its easily abused. Dont even think of it if you have any other addictions or physical problems. Its bad news. Get some fire Red Bali instead man

[e_poison]

I'm going to mirror what others are saying above. I'd stay away from it. It can cause a "drunk" like feeling, but if that's the feeling you're going for anyway, you might as well just be drinking regular alcohol. I've seen this stuff mentioned on reddit numerous times over the last few years, and very rarely in a positive way.

[The Relaxed Guy]

I totally hear you guys regarding its addiction potential, and withdrawals. I have actually read people saying that its withdrawals (at higher, regular doses) are worse than heroin.

I guess what makes this more intriguing than say, alcohol or a benzo (as someone said above, “may as well go for alcohol if you’re looking for a drunk feeling”) - is that many users go out of their way to specifically emphasize that it DOESN’T cause those intoxicating, clumsy effects one would get from alcohol or benzos.

Like, on a benzo or especially alcohol, people can tell you’re intoxicated. You act noticeably different, even if you FEEL like you’re just more laid back and anxiety free. Then the next day, you’re like “oh shit I can’t believe I said and did that”. That’s where Phenibut seems to differ very strongly than other GABA activators.

What has really stood out to me, is the supposedly nootropic effect. People claim to use it before exams, and in professional settings, because there’s a clean-headed, “make you want to go out and do things” effect. So you can enjoy the same anxiety relief and euphoria as other GABA agonists, but it’s got more of a nootropic effect profile - as opposed to an intoxicating one.

It doesn’t really make sense to me how that would be possible - when I think of Alcohol or a benzo, I definitely don’t think of operating in a professional, day to day setting. But phenibut seems to be used primarily for those purposes.

Lastly, and most interestingly - it’s apparently been proven to increase HGH. Like, 500-600%, according to some sites I’ve read (I’ve been through hundreds of websites these past few days). Even the skeptical websites seem to concede that there is, in fact, an increase in HGH production whilst on Phenibut. Why is not entirely understood. But many users report extremely focused, productive workouts when on Phenibut. They claim that they can run much farther, because for whatever reason they don’t tire out. I even read some reports from people who don’t work out at all - saying that after 12 weeks of using phenibut 2x week, they had noticeably more muscular arms and calves.

So yeah, it’s got the euphoric anxiolytic aspects one expects from gabaergenic drugs like a benzo or alcohol. But it’s completely separated from those substances (especially alcohol) in that phenibut can be used for nootropic and even performance enhancing purposes.

Being said, in higher doses - I’m talking way higher - it can cause drunkenness and decrease in motor control. So it CAN cause intoxicating effects at super high doses. But in the standard dose range, one gets primarily therapeutic effects, mood boost, anxiety relief, HGH production, without negative effects like decreased motor control, drowsiness or intoxication.

And lastly, I agree with everyone’s sentiment regarding its addiction potential. I am prone to abusing a product. Especially one with effects that Phenibut supposedly has. If it’s really as good as it sounds, it’s almost certainly to be something I struggle to control myself with. So I must recognize that it’s PRUDENT to maintain a strict regimen of 2x week, if I intend to experiment with it at all.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Removed

[Pete2000]

I picked up some from Happy Hippo when I started ordering Kratom from them last year. I use it maybe twice a month, 1-1.5 grams a couple of hours prior to burning. It does enhance the Kratom experience somewhat, but it's not a night and day difference. If you've never tried it with Kratom, I wouldn't say you're missing much.

I've also taken half a gram prior to going out to meet friends. It does make you more sociable, but you have to be really careful mixing with alcohol. You can get really sloppy real quick.

Can't say I regret trying it, but I also won't be ordering more when it's gone.

[e_poison]

Ultimately, it's up to you what you put in your own body. Sounds like you're doing your research, so I commend you for that. Hopefully others who have firsthand experience with it can chime in.

[Fled Nanders]

I've taken it about a half a dozen times and it can be sorta nice. It definitely feels like a light benzo. I've definitely gotten some intoxicating effects to the point where I don't use the stove or oven to cook because the chance I might forget that they are on. I definitely wouldn't drive on it either. But all in all, I don't really care for it. I've had the same container laying around for months now without feeling like taking it. Then again, not a huge fan of benzo or alcohol type buzzes.

[swablero]

Note that those web sites that promote nootropics have a strong bias. It sounds like you're very curious about this. Be careful man. You need to be extremely disciplined and know up front its not practical as an everyday thing. I would say once a week is enough, twice a month is better. There is a psychological dependence that builds as well. If you do decide to take it please dont increase your dose to get the same effects. Thats a warning sign. Cause tolerance builds so fast and its never gonna be as good as the first time. And you'll read all over about others easily handling 1.5 grams. Thats way too much, Neurologically phenibut artificially floods your gaba receptors and your system stops producing sufficient amounts of its own gaba real fast with a rebound anxiety that isn't pleasant. Don't mess with your body is my advice.

[beathappening]

It is a lot of fun for a little while, but I'm not going to list any positive effects. It affects your GABA-B receptors, unlike alcohol and benzos which hit your GABA-As. It doesn't take long to get hopelessly addicted. Withdrawals are literally HELL, I've never experienced anything like it, and I've done alcohol wd, heroin wd, poppy pod wd, I've had seizures during benzo wd...honestly words cannot possibly describe what it's like to come off phen. The scare stories do NOT do it justice. I'll never touch it again. Why it's legal is flummoxing. Jesus christ.

[swablero]

Why it's legal is flummoxing. Jesus christ.

Yeah that they want to schedule Kratom says it all about our world. Go figure.

[beathappening]

Why it's legal is flummoxing. Jesus christ.

Yeah that they want to schedule Kratom says it all about our world. Go figure.

I'm sure its time will come. It's also imported from China, so it may be hard to get soon for non-legal reasons anyway. The price has been gradually going up, but it's still dirt cheap.

[gravystainonmyshirt]

Ya, its like a legal alternative for benzos, it stimulates the same gaba receptors that benzodiazepines do in a different way, not at stimulating but if you take enough then ive heard it gets you loaded. But the withdrawls are no joke, my friend said its GOTTA be a once a week type thing or youll be hooked.

As far as kratom sites, ive only seen it happyhippoherbals.com but im sure if you look around you can find it elsewhere

[beathappening]

There are two sets of gaba receptors.
GABA-A - alcohol, benzodiazepines
GABA-B - phenibut

Phenibut (developed by those kooky Soviets) is really not much like benzos, chemically or in effect...it even has stimulant properties. Phenibut is closer to GHB, as well as baclofen (a muscle relaxant,) and PreGABAlin (Lyrica). Some say it has a drunken feel to it, that hasn't been my experience. In high doses, phenibut has a strong body load as someone already mentioned, albeit a euphoric one. It's not dissimilar from a weak dose of ecstasy. But take too much or too frequently and it'll drive up your heart rate to twice it's normal rate and cause extremely uncomfortable involuntary body movements...just to name two side effects. People say once or twice a week max...once you get into every other day/everyday territory you're in trouble. It's extremely addictive. I read all the scare stories before I started and thought eh, fuck it I'll be okay, I just had to find out for myself. Tolerance happens immediately. I know now what everyone was talking about. I can't stress enough what an evil drug this is.

[Payshince]

I didn’t want to respond to this but hey,
Heres MY two cents...

Fuck No.
Why bother risk it?

1. I have an Addictive Personality

2. I (used to)* be Addicted to Alcohol and Benzodiazepines -(Clonazepam/Klonopin)
That was a little over a year ago!

3. I’m still Not the same. I don’t want to Fuck with my GABA receptors anymore and already from daily benzo and alcohol abuse for years without even realizing wtf I’m actually doing to my brain and the people around me, combining the two I not only almost ended up dead and or in jail (for longer than I actually was), I got lucky!
Im still SUPER awkward or at least I Feel that way.*
Something is off with me. My Anxiety is still not the same
Go figure I was fucking w/ my brain for 3-4 yrs daily of course it’ll take time to balance myself out again.
My Social skills are lacking and at the end of my addictions last year I was seriously considering ending my own life pretty much every single day. It was an extremely Dark time for me. But here I am and I am alive and life is actually getting better.

Thanks to Kratom I can manage my Anxiety and my Depression, OCD, and ADHD.

Some might be wondering what this story has to do with this topic.
The moral of the story is I am extremely lucky to be where I am now and every day I work on my Mental Health because of it!
I wasn’t aware of what I was doing at the time till the very end due to the fact of being dependent and my Dr. continuing to fill my script!
WHY Play with fire??

If you want to have fun TAKE some Adderall!
If you’re curious, there are plentiful things out there much less detrimental to your health and others!

I Emphasize this because it makes me fkn Sad every day that people go ahead and think its NBD but in reality IT IS A B!G Deal!

Gabapentin is fycking CRAP.
From experience abusing my OWN GABA-A receptors I can tell you its Not worth it!
So, please don’t think your GABA-B receptors are Any Different.

Our brain is much more fragile than some choose to believe.


Of course you are you
I am me.
You can grab some and test the waters.

I’m just a fellow community member hoping you don’t go down a potentially dark path.
It is all a deception.

God Bless You.
Choose wisely.

[BallzDeep9]

People say once or twice a week max... once you get into every other day/everyday territory you're in trouble. It's extremely addictive. I read all the scare stories before I started and thought eh, fuck it I'll be okay, I just had to find out for myself...

I agree with a LOT of what you're saying there Beat, BUT - We are adults here. Right? We can't dumb down everything in life, to protect the minority who are OCD mentally ill, self destructive, whatever... We DON'T jump off a cliff, just to "find out what it feels like".

You don't huff paint thinner .. OR fuck around with Crystal Meth .. OR mix Vodka and Xanax .. At least I HOPE not!! Still... those things are out there. I could list MANY more.. We both know, it would be really stupid to overdose on.. A whole list of things.

Phenibut is great, when used correctly in small doses. Effects? I'd compare it to a benzo.. I've had a script for Xanax, which I rarely take.. still have some from a year ago. Phenibut is lighter, with a better mood lift - I can drive on Phenibut - it's risky to drive on most benzo's at standard doses. No, Phenibut does not make you "drunk" like booze. Liftmode has a good How To Guide, however IMO .. 500 mg or less, is recommended. Read the warnings!!

Important to get your Phenibut from a quality source!! Most of the stuff sold in head-shops / through kratom vendors, is cheaply made HCL (Hydrochloride Salt) compound - There IS a more advanced, FAA Free Amino Acid formula which I prefer. Compare HERE.

Anyway, I have a Liftmode Coupon which I'll give by PM - Only for those who are NOT self admitted drug abusers. Thanks!

[beathappening]

It's a slippery slope, is what I'm getting at. I was more giving my experience, which won't be everyone's. If you have any history of addiction, this isn't for you. I'm not trying to dumb it down, I just have difficulty accurately conveying what I want to say about this drug. So it can come off subjectively and sound vague, I guess. I figure someone that knows nothing about the drug would want to hear about the full spectrum of usage, right? You don't just want to hear the good stuff. For me personally, there is no overstating it....I'd rather go through intense heroin withdrawals than go through phenibut addiction again.

You say phenibut is great in small doses...aren't all drugs? If you only did heroin in small amounts twice a week (it was once legal, same with cocaine), you'd still avoid addiction, but you're playing with fire. Slippery slope. The difference is phenibut hasn't reached the collective consciousness and been demonized...yet. Phenibut has just as much addiction potential as any other scheduled drug. (I'm not saying that all of those drugs should be illegal though.)

In the interest of harm reduction, nootropicsdepot sells phen for considerably cheaper. Liftmode changed a lot recently...they dropped all of their 100g+ sizes and jacked up prices. They do carry FAA though-for even more, I'm not sure if it's worth it. There are sites that you can buy it by the kilo too...it's crazy. Obviously marketing to addicts.

[herbalhippie]

I was just looking at the wiki. Phenibut is a close relative of baclofen? I've got a huge prescription of baclofen leftover from an upper back injury. I asked the doc for a muscle relaxer that wouldn't put me to sleep during the day like Flexeril does and he gave me baclofen.

Does phenibut feel like baclofen?

[herbalhippie]

Baclofen wiki

Pharmacodynamics

Baclofen produces its effects by activating the GABAB receptor, similar to the drug phenibut which also activates this receptor and shares some of its effects. Baclofen is postulated to block mono-and-polysynaptic reflexes by acting as an inhibitory ligand, inhibiting the release of excitatory neurotransmitters. However, baclofen does not have significant affinity for the GHB receptor, and has no known abuse potential.[18] The modulation of the GABAB receptor is what produces baclofen's range of therapeutic properties.

Similarly to phenibut (β-phenyl-GABA), as well as pregabalin (β-isobutyl-GABA), which are close analogues of baclofen, baclofen (β-(4-chlorophenyl)-GABA) has been found to block α2δ subunit-containing voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs).[19] However, it is weaker relative to phenibut in this action (Ki = 23 and 39 μM for R- and S-phenibut and 156 μM for baclofen).[19] Moreover, baclofen is in the range of 100-fold more potent by weight as an agonist of the GABAB receptor in comparison to phenibut, and in accordance, is used at far lower relative dosages. As such, the actions of baclofen on α2δ subunit-containing VGCCs are likely not clinically-relevant.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baclofen

[beathappening]

I've never had it. I have read on some phenibut forums that it is similar but I don't know how recreational it is. I don't think it's widely abused.
I hate Flexeril too. I'd take one at night and sleep til the next afternoon, and still be wiped out. I think Soma (caprisodol) is generally considered the holy grail of muscle relaxers.

[swablero]

Relaxed guy, I hope its useful to be getting these different opinions. Maybe there is a path to "proper" usage as Baltz believes. But as beathappening says theres a path to properly using heroin too. There are very few people who have managed to incorporate heroin or for that matter phen into thier everyday life in a constructive fashion. Few people continue to use it in that fashion because tolerance builds so quickly. People always come to the same crossroad increase the dose to get the effect or realize it hopeless and quit. Those who increase there dose are by definition in for a rough time. You don't get something for nothing, You will go thorough hell at some point. Baltz says warning you of this is dumbing down the argument. I guess his point is you're a big boy and not stupid. But honestly I think you have to looking at both sides. And people opening up about there experience is only meant to help. Baltz is taken a clinical approach to phenibut dosing, If only life were that simple.

[beathappening]

You don't get something for nothing, You will go thorough hell at some point.

This is true. You have to pay it back sometime.

[BallzDeep9]

It's a slippery slope, is what I'm getting at. I was more giving my experience, which won't be everyone's. If you have any history of addiction, this isn't for you.

well anyone reading this, should pay attention to what you're saying FIRST - I'm only giving a possible, fair use scenario, which does work for some .. Everything I read and understand about Phenibut, is that it's Once/ per Week. Some things are like that!

But I'm not really a drug abuser/ never was .. Got into a little trouble on the Norco's, a few years back but quickly realized I had to STOP.. I used hydro and Oxy, somehow managed those, on a regular basis for 20 years. I did chip on heroin for many years. Had my Rules saw the downside of getting hooked.. Dead friends. But, this IS a kratom board, should we assume everybody here's a former addict?

So yeah. We all better READ beat's account of Phenibut downside.. Check out Reddit r/phenibut for more... Read a little further, guys are snorting their Phenibut, drinking cough syrup, and cooking up Meth until their teeth fall out .. There WAS also a guy on Reddit r/kratom who imported some leaf. Popular guy, who also got into RC's in particular a thing called Hexen. Anyone remember that? Found him dead in his mom's basement.. Direct result of RC's experimenting.

That old saying: Everything in Moderation, Nothing to Excess - I'm fortunate that worked for me. Totally understand that many ppl can't do that - Ever seen alcoholics that way? My Step-dad could not even use after-shave .. Any touch of alcohol, would begin a spiral of drinking.. First martini's at bars.. Then sneaking a bottle in his briefcase.. Finally going with, jugs of cheap Thunderbird and MD 20/20 until he was literally crawling in the gutter.. covered in vomit, almost dead. Then off to the Detox Clinic, Veterans Hospital, wash rinse repeat!!

[The Relaxed Guy]

So my curiosity ended up getting the better of me and I ordered 100g of phenibut. I’m in a bit of an insomia spell at the moment, so what the hell.

I took ~1.5g about ten minutes ago, so I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

It’s 9PM right now, and I’d like to stay awake long enough to at least feel some effects. But I also won’t fight the urge to fall asleep.

[beathappening]

If you want to use it for sleep, you need to take it 3-5 hours before you want to go to bed. It has a really slow, long onset. I strongly suggest you do more research...this is common knowledge. Check out r/phenibut (and r/quittingphenibut)

I'm surprised you went straight for a 100g tub of it (the largest size you can buy on liftmode) instead of testing out some capsules or even a 25g to see if you even like it. Did you read anyone's response here, or did you already have your mind made up that you were going to buy that much of it beforehand?

Edit: looking at the date of the OP (two days ago) you evidently had already ordered it and en route to you, so I guess that answers my question.

[The Relaxed Guy]

And I’d truly like to thank breathappening, ballz, and swablero for your input. That is the exact type of input that I was looking for.

@Breathappening thank you for telling me the stuff I need to hear. I totally can feel the sincerity and seriousness in your words. It is because of your words and others, than I recognize phenibut WDs and dependence as, quite simply, a different ballgame. It reminds me of tianeptine - also a legal substance, but with WDs far worse than most illegal substances.

I guess the idea with buying phenibut is that I can have a gabergic drug if needed, since benzos are hard for me to come by.

If I can have something for when those insomnia spells hit, or when a day comes where I must be anxiety free, that’s great. Because as it stands, when those situations arise, I have no options, and end up basically just fucking up my life and failing to capitalize on important opportunities. I truly believe I can limit my use to 2x/week at most - but the primary use will be for when those important days arise out of nowhere and I need to be on the ball.

And to be entirely honest - I’m just super curious how it effects me. It sounds genuinely very fascinating. I AM interested in the recreational use. I’ve heard it enhances music, induces euphoria, eases anxiety, even enhances mental productivity? I just can’t let this stuff get banned without first trying it.

I know, the whole “I’ll only use it 2 times a week” is every addict’s famous last words, right? But there’s something about phenibut - the words of past users like yourself just seem to separate it from other substances. It’s withdrawals just seem to be scarier - hellish, even. It reminds me of tianeptine a bit, in that it’s legal, gets you high, but has WDs worse than any illegal drug. No one can accurately describe the hell of tianeptine withdrawals.

I just can’t see myself getting addicted to a substance that so many people have claimed to have worse WDs than heroin. I’m honestly too scared to risk physical dependence. After all I’ve learned about it by now... if I end up abusing it, even though I already KNOW it’s a terrible idea, then frankly I deserve to suffer.

Being said, I’m grateful for these reports. I needed to know that the WDs are that bad, because that’s the fuel I’ll need to keep myself on a strict schedule of moderation.

[The Relaxed Guy]

If you want to use it for sleep, you need to take it 3-5 hours before you want to go to bed. It has a really slow, long onset. I strongly suggest you do more research...this is common knowledge. Check out r/phenibut (and r/quittingphenibut)

I'm surprised you went straight for a 100g tub of it (the largest size you can buy on liftmode) instead of testing out some capsules or even a 25g to see if you even like it. Did you read anyone's response here, or did you already have your mind made up that you were going to buy that much of it beforehand?

Edit: looking at the date of the OP (two days ago) you evidently had already ordered it and en route to you, so I guess that answers my question.

I’ll admit, I ordered it the same day I posted this. I absolutely read every response, and have taken them very seriously. Regarding the slow onset, I’m very aware of this. I was undecided on whether I would try some tonight or tomorrow morning. I decided on tonight, since I didn’t want to waste an entire day if it ended up being sedating or unpleasant. I figured 9PM was good because I could still be awake long enough to feel the onset of effects, yet won’t have to be awake all day if it ends up being unpleasant.

Regarding the 100g tub, I actually just saw how inexpensive it was and figured why not. My father was interested in it due to the hgh effects, so if I don’t like it I’ll let him have it.

[herbalhippie]

I've never had it. I have read on some phenibut forums that it is similar but I don't know how recreational it is. I don't think it's widely abused.
I hate Flexeril too. I'd take one at night and sleep til the next afternoon, and still be wiped out. I think Soma (caprisodol) is generally considered the holy grail of muscle relaxers.

I think I took 6 or 8 out of 90 baclofen and don't remember feeling like OMG this is GREAT!



I've heard of Soma but never had it. I guess it's a controlled substance now and not prescribed as much as it used to be.

[beathappening]

Well you seem to know what you're getting into to your credit. Good luck my man.

Couple other things for harm reduction...
Don't eat three hours before or after taking it. once it kicks in, it lasts quite awhile...you may be feeling it tomorrow morning. It gave me the most intensely vivid lucid dreams I've ever had, it's like the same dream just goes on and on and on... However it made it all but impossible to get deep sleep, but I was dosing higher. For me I didn't feel much til I took 2-2.5grams. at around 1g it's actually decent for sleep... be careful with redosing, that's how it gets you. taking too much at once can be really uncomfortable.

The HCL powder is extremely caustic. You'll notice it was a citrusy taste. It will break your teeth down quick, so it's good to brush your teeth after dosing, even if you get it down quick. I found the best way to take it was the same as kratom...mix it in sunny d/oj and chug. Do not toss and wash. Do not snort. It also fucks up your stomach lining to some degree and can give you the shits. Seriously check out r/phenibut and browse, you'll pick up a lot more useful info than the wiki has.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Well you seem to know what you're getting into to your credit. Good luck my man.

Couple other things for harm reduction...
Don't eat three hours before or after taking it. once it kicks in, it lasts quite awhile...you may be feeling it tomorrow morning. It gave me the most intensely vivid lucid dreams I've ever had, it's like the same dream just goes on and on and on... However it made it all but impossible to get deep sleep, but I was dosing higher. For me I didn't feel much til I took 2-2.5grams. at around 1g it's actually decent for sleep... be careful with redosing, that's how it gets you. taking too much at once can be really uncomfortable.

The HCL powder is extremely caustic. You'll notice it was a citrusy taste. It will break your teeth down quick, so it's good to brush your teeth after dosing, even if you get it down quick. I found the best way to take it was the same as kratom...mix it in sunny d/oj and chug. Do not toss and wash. Do not snort. It also fucks up your stomach lining to some degree and can give you the shits. Seriously check out r/phenibut and browse, you'll pick up a lot more useful info than the wiki has.

Ah ok good to know. I actually did toss and wash, and it was pretty nasty. OJ washed it down fine though with no after taste.

I didn’t eat anything at all for several hours before taking it, and I’m just now eating at 2 hours after dosing. So hopefully my food intake isn’t going to be a factor in the experience at all. I’m starving so even if it is too soon, I can’t wait any longer lol.

As far as effects, I feel absolutely nothing yet at 2 hours in. I am starting to think I’d have been better of taking it in the morning. Part of me thinks I may end up just falling asleep before it kicks in, then sleeping through the peak effects tonight.

I’m wondering if I should just go to bed now, and hope to have some effects when I wake up tomorrow morning. Or if I should stay up another hour or so and see if I can feel something before I go to sleep.

[swablero]

Good luck relaxedguy. Truly hope it all works out as planned. Silver bullets huh. Don't squander mgs on the bottom rungs; Be selective. Sometimes you have to face your demons. Have fun

[herbalhippie]

Ok, well, be careful, Relaxed Guy. At least you know where this can lead and aren't going into it blind.


In the last hour I've fallen into a rabbit hole of phenibut/baclofen/gabapentin/gaba receptors/gabab receptors. And I don't understand any of it.



One thing interesting I found out is that baclofen can be used for alcohol withdrawals. And that many people find it helpful for phenibut withdrawals.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Oh I’m not taking anymore until Friday at the earliest.

I think I’m starting to feel some vague background effects. Just a slight decrease in inhibition, and what I can only describe as a desire to dance (despite the fact that I’m tired as hell and will not do so).

Again, these effects are very vague, and in no way what I would consider to be euphoric or “recreational”. However, I’m only 2.5 hours in and many report the peak occuring in the 5 hour range. I’ll be asleep at that time.

OK I’m going to take my night time Kratom dose now - probably 4-5g of socal red bali. Then settle in for the night. I’ll report back tomorrow. Thanks ya’ll for the words of caution and harm reduction. Have a good night and God bless.

[herbalhippie]

It does enhance the Kratom experience somewhat, but it's not a night and day difference. If you've never tried it with Kratom, I wouldn't say you're missing much.

I've been reading about baclofen and phenibut all evening on Reddit.

In one post about baclofen, someone says that the part he enjoys most is how it potentiates kratom.

Also, just saw this

"Phenibut and baclofen are one molecule away from being the same compound."

[beathappening]

Yes I've also heard about baclofen being useful for phen wd. I didn't know about alcohol though. I wonder why we don't see that prescribed much in treatments, it's usually ativan or librium.

Relaxed, the first time I took it I didn't feel anything until seven hours in. After that it was usually 4.5-5 hours. I've heard that 3 hours is most common but it taking longer isn't rare. The best thing to do would be to take it in the morning right when you get up. Me, I used to set my alarm for 3am to dose, go back to sleep, then wake up with it taking effect around 7-8am.

Oh, and you'll know when it works. There won't be any "I think I feel something"; there's no mistaking it. It sounds like maybe 1.5g is a threshold recreational dose for you. 2g might be what you're looking for...I strongly advise not going higher than 2.5g in a single dose. Even taken only twice a week, you'll encounter a tolerance before long, and like I said earlier, playing with fire

[herbalhippie]

Yes I've also heard about baclofen being useful for phen wd. I didn't know about alcohol though. I wonder why we don't see that prescribed much in treatments, it's usually ativan or librium.

Atenolol is good for alcohol withdrawals as well but you don't hear about that either. Propanolol would probably be too.


After a LOT of reading last night, what I came away with is that phenibut/baclofen/gabapentin can all have pretty bad withdrawals. Gabapentin and baclofen are prescribed pretty freely, in my experience. I had a previous doctor who was pushing gabapentin on me a couple years ago for chronic pain like he owned stock in it. And when I had a minor upper back injury last year, the doctor I saw gave me 90 baclofen with 3 refills. I wonder if they're even aware of withdrawals after long term use? Neither of them ever mentioned it to me.

[beathappening]

Gabapentin is well known among addicts as being very helpful in benzo withdrawals. And the circle of life continues. I've never heard about someone getting addicted to it though. I know you have to take several grams (3000mg or so) to get the sought after recreational effects. I was put on it for anxiety...it has a ton of off label uses, it's like a jack of all maladies. I take propranolol for anxiety. It's great for panic attacks. One thing for sure, doctors love throwing scripts at you.

[herbalhippie]

Gabapentin is well known among addicts as being very helpful in benzo withdrawals. And the circle of life continues. I've never heard about someone getting addicted to it though. I know you have to take several grams (3000mg or so) to get the sought after recreational effects. I was put on it for anxiety...it has a ton of off label uses, it's like a jack of all maladies. I take propranolol for anxiety. It's great for panic attacks. One thing for sure, doctors love throwing scripts at you.

They sure do. But if they're going to, they should also be aware of and be cautioning you for things such as 'may cause very difficult withdrawals if used long term'.

Also, I've read that people are abusing gabapentin now. I don't know about addictive, but it's being abused.

eta: Atenolol and propanolol are excellent for anxiety, and non-addictive. I like atenolol for that better than any benzo I've ever tried (admittedly not much, because I don't like the drunk feeling).