Sent a text to DTE Drew

[mivanqua]

https://ibb.co/zp0q7Hy


Sent this to Drew at DTE today, the text only number, because he's six days late on his response and I want to hear his side of things. So far he's not answering but like I said in the message, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe he'll respond. I certainly hope so.

Hope you all are doing well out there, they are working the hell out of us today at work. It's the first really hot day of the year.

[Burninator]

Yeah he always used to be so quick and chill in correspondence but the last few weeks he’s taken 4+ days to respond to questions about the menu—if he responds at all. And his responses have all been short and devoid of his usual personality.

I also noticed the original post calling him out was removed by moderators on r/kratomreview100, and the mod has been posting in overdrive (seemingly) shilling for DTE, while acting dumb to questions about the accusations.

I mean maybe the labs are behind and he hasn’t been able to put together the comprehensive response he promised us yet. Maybe he’s hoping it all blows over. I don’t know. I’m willing to give him some grace too because I have historically had a consistently great experience with him and his leaf is always top tier. But I’m also a little worried I’m giving myself lead poisoning as I continue taking it…

[mivanqua]

I agree with both points of your last paragraph there. It must be hard dealing with all of this business but I don't wanna die either.

[mivanqua]

Apparently all will be revealed in just a few minutes, noon mountain time. So.... we'll see I guess?

[Burninator]

Did I miss it?

[mivanqua]

Nope. Still nothing.

[Burninator]

Did you get an email? I haven’t yet.

[mivanqua]

Nope. No email

[mivanqua]

About to check again, but still no response to my text that I sent him and his front page feels ...overinspired? (for lack of better word?)

I'm dying* to see how this new batch fares.


Is it me or is this starting to look really fucking fishy?

I really hope he comes through with his little eight part behind the scenes or whatever, I want my gut to not be right on this.

He had the numbers, man. He had the reach. I hope he didn't throw it all in the garbage disposal like SOSA Ben did. That dude had the connections and the slamminest of the slammin kratom. Coke nabbed him. I don't think he exit scammed though, I think he just... stopped one day. Could be wrong, correct me for sure if I am.




* hopefully not literally.

[Burninator]

Over-inspired in what way?

Yeah, I hope my gut is wrong too. He has the best freaking kratom I’ve had in years. But ffs this all feels hella sus.

[mivanqua]

Like...trying too hard.

[Burninator]

Like the homepage where he’s talking about the samplers? Idk. I do find it a little odd he’s doing the drop “so we don’t have to wait” while knowing what we’re really waiting on is the explanation that keeps getting pushed back. I’m not suspecting an exit scam but now that you put that thought in my mind..ha..ha

[herbalhippie]

This is not a good look.

I've never had any of his leaf.

[Madvillain626]

Nah an exit scam is doubtful. Maybe his suppliers overlooked whatever prep you need to do to NOT have lead products in your leaf and he kept it pushing because the leaf kept selling out anyway. I never look at labs to be honest so I overlooked it too. It either hits for me or it doesn't. I haven't had any health problems or even nausea from his leaf but of course lead builds up over time.

It's funny cuz Drew @ DTE reminds me of 7ohm (the vendor) if you remember him. But a more stable, professional version of 7ohm. That dude had some FIRE (a long time ago when being a reddit kratom vendor was actually plausible), some of the best leaf I've ever had to this day but he kept getting "robbed" and would disappear for months at a time. Hope he's doing well now.

[mivanqua]

No I don't think exit scam is on the menu to be sure, I just think the way he's acting about all of this is a tad dismissive. He's definitely giving it some weight in some way because his announcement was supposed to happen over a week ago and it keeps on getting "I'M WORKING ON IT NOW!"ed into oblivion.

Seems odd,.some pretty big accusations were made that you can't just leave unanswered in my opinion. I've been saying that I hope he comes through with what's been promised, and I truly do, but my faith in this process is dwindling fast.

[Burninator]

Yeah. Plus I’m sure plenty of people are oblivious/dismissive of the claims and keep ordering. His last drop sold out (briefly) pretty quick, and that was right after this all came out. Anyways, I’m hoping for the best. We’ll see I guess.

I remember 7ohm but I never ordered from him. I mostly stuck with Motark back then. His kratom was incredible. There was another reddit vendor I’ve been racking my brain trying to remember. I want to say it was a single letter, or maybe just his name. Significantly more expensive than anyone else at the time but it was crazy strong. His red Bali is still the only strain that’s ever made me borderline delirious.

[mivanqua]

Are you thinking of DG Botanicals? If so, yeah he's still around but I've never tried him. Not REALLY only some samples, but what I've had was ok.
He has a website, you can check it out, but you have to be a member which...guess what? I just so happen to be. you know, if you want to make a joint order so it doesn't cost thousands. I've almost ordered a ton of times, it's just his payment options are shit. Check/money order or one other one I don't have. I forgot

[mivanqua]

This is not a good look.

I've never had any of his leaf.

He's had some good ones along the way, his string dried (D supplier) are good, most of the others are ok, some better ones sprinkled in along the way. I've never gotten a sampler that he offers, I just pick blind and using whatever reviews people may have based on what I'm looking for, which is always the same.

[Burninator]

Are you thinking of DG Botanicals? If so, yeah he's still around but I've never tried him. Not REALLY only some samples, but what I've had was ok.
He has a website, you can check it out, but you have to be a member which...guess what? I just so happen to be. you know, if you want to make a joint order so it doesn't cost thousands. I've almost ordered a ton of times, it's just his payment options are shit. Check/money order or one other one I don't have. I forgot

Yes! That’s who it was! Hmm, how much is a split kilo from him? I didn’t remember loving him, but that red Bali just hit different.

I also haven’t placed an order with TFH for about a year now. They were my go-to vendor since Covid but I just started getting strain after strain that didn’t mesh with my chemistry. Then I tried DTE and the rest is history. Still no email though

[SaintsWillConquer]

Is there anywhere I can read what these accusations are?

[Burninator]

Is there anywhere I can read what these accusations are?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vendorsofkratom2/s/IllJawtSsv

[Burninator]

He posted this comment on Reddit tonight:

“ Hey!! I’ve got a PSA coming and publishing new COA as we speak. We had some urgent family matters come up and a literal nightmare of a month (non DTE related surprisingly) of more urgent matters. Everything is good, clean. Re tested. I have sold over 60,000 orders since starting DTE!!

Which is amazing!! And over a thousand varieties.

I also operate out of the only or if it’s not the only one of the only gmpa compliant facilities in Indonesia where we process everything!

Post regulation Indonesian labs are no joke. Before they were, sketchy.

But now, the government implementing these regulations alongside the US government there was an overall concern of quality control which led to extremely strict export rules.

There’s a document called the “LS” report, it stands for surveyors document and it’s the lab and micro testing required.

They dont BS that stuff. The president at one point (of indonesia) made a statement because so many big vendors were trhing to bribe them for clean labs on bulk sea cargo and pushing things under the table he sai hed shut their entire pipeline down. Indefinitely. Im talking like top 5 companies too!

Sometimes I tease things and never release them. Very rarely does it happen but I do get specific harvests (single strains) rejected as well.

It’s pretty much impossible to export small batch level air cargo with the new required processes there and through the flight line , once it hits US customs, etc to import bad material. Especially as a small batch guy , who has never even got more than a 100kg yield!

I’m so sorry this has taken so long but life got really crazy in a very short period of time and we’ve been trying to keep up!! But I lost two full time laborers which is all I had lol. Not DTE related, one is an electrician whose business blew up. Had to seriously slow down, analyze everything , re hire, wait for tests to come back (just got those back) and I didn’t want to announce anything with just words!!

I wanted action too. And plans. I don’t just “show the clean labs” and call it a day. Nah, I think this is a perfect opportunity for myself and others to up the transparency and education.

There’s many no longer getting regular shipments or imports. I’m one of the only small batch guys who is. Because we are compliant to a T.

I have a series rolling out showing the facilities, hiring videographers as we speak in Indonesia as well. And I will show the updated labs and we had two pre tests that had non detect of anything and a subsequent set of labs also showing full cleanliness!

I’ve never had someone get sick from my leaf outside of underestimating its potency. Outside of a small handful. But for the volume of quality leaf I’ve pushed that’s like a .0000000000000000001% of the total customer base.

Sometimes my own leaf I’ve taken for years since 2016 makes me nauseous. It’s a unique plant! And not regulated enough for sure. But I promise peace of mind and new stuff is coming!

I apologize for the delay! Also got banned here temporarily again. Among my other business experiencing last minute crisis due to airline shut downs in the Middle East but I am prioritizing this now I promise!

-Drew”

[mivanqua]

Eh....I'm even more wary now, "No one's ever gotten sick from my leaf...oh, uh..."Outside of a handful of people."
"Regulations are no joke"
Then why the positive salmonella test? Were they a joke that one day? Something isn't jiving.

He just seems to go on and on about proof and shit that he has but we aren't privy to..."yet."
And more overdrive repetition, doing too much. We already "know" most of that

And finally why would an electrician's business suddenly "blow up?" (Strange pun to use but I'll let that one slide.)

Besides, lead doesn't make you sick like that anyway, it's a slow burn.

He's acting too dismissive of the claims at hand and blatantly putting it all off because "something big happened" that definitely "isn't DTE related." Ok then, what? We deserve to know. This is our fucking lives here, and we are all old...you know, oldER, not George H.W. Bush old. Not yet, BUT I HOPE TO BE ONE DAY.

I'm too paranoid, it's true, but damn man, shit like this does nothing but feed it. He's still acting guilty as hell and I have been checking for this email that was promised days ago ten times a day. I want him to have proof, although I can't imagine what that proof would be. A video of Indonesians washing some leaf isn't going to do much to make me feel better about all of this.

But, again, it's a rough industry etc. etc.
but I think we've been imbibing some wild shit and he's lucky the numbers aren't far greater.

[Burninator]

Yeah I had a lot of these same thoughts while reading it. Nothing he said put my mind at ease. “.000000000000000001%” Brother, what? Did you let a little emotion slip past the mask?

I’m paranoid too, but this is serious shit, and no, hiring videographers isn’t going to make a single fuck of a difference. Like, what, you think we’re asking for an infomercial? Idk ugh. I want to continue extending some modicum of grace and wait for the full email, but this has just left me with more questions and less confidence. And I kinda have been feeling unusually slow lately. I’m sure it’s probably just SAD and poor sleep, but this shit certainly isn’t helping the latter.

[mivanqua]

It's up. Surprise! It's all fully compliant!

Now what?

(Wah wah heavy rock anthem plays in the background)

"Here at DTE, we make sure the ladies wash the leaves at least six times before we throw it onto the blue tarp to be dried in the crispy Indonesian sun. It's a beautiful process, and not a lot of people know about it. Here's what makes our million bags of leaf different...the lead. We heard some of you like your leaf unleaded, and we have that too. Still waiting on those labs."

I jest, but that whole thing that's on the home page is really wild.

[Burninator]

lol. Yeah. So I guess everything is good? Idk. That email he sent out kind of has my spidey senses tingling.

[Burninator]

Have you tried the new strains? I did place an order but it hasn’t come yet. Since doing so I’ve been seeing person after person on reddit complain some of these strains have been making them sick. None of them were especially established accounts so it could still be part of a smear campaign, I suppose. Also, has Drew still been damn near unreachable for you?

[mivanqua]

Have you tried the new strains? I did place an order but it hasn’t come yet. Since doing so I’ve been seeing person after person on reddit complain some of these strains have been making them sick. None of them were especially established accounts so it could still be part of a smear campaign, I suppose. Also, has Drew still been damn near unreachable for you?

Yeah no response still. I ordered some, but I got the old stuff. PRMD18 and the Ancient Red Whatever, the sun dried one. They are both in the Select Series. I got the Elder Tree Gold and it hasn't made me sick, and it's in the Select Series so hopefully they are both safe enough. They are on the way, so I'll see by next week..

[Burninator]

Yeah the Elder Tree Gold is fine for me. I ordered all new strains so we’ll see how this goes. Should be getting here tomorrow.

It’s just really off-putting that he sent out that email last month with his vague apology and promises to be more plugged in than ever and he still isn’t responding to emails. And now kratomreview100 appears to be removing critical comments/posts.

[T0wlie04]

Deleted

[Burninator]

The enhanced question has crossed my mind—though I haven’t humored it much. His leaf is almost weirdly consistent in its potency, in a way no other vendor has ever been. If it were, though, wouldn’t it wreck our tolerance across the board? I only take his stuff at this point so I can’t speak to nothing else working anymore, nor do I have any experience with 7-OH in the first place, but my understanding is that extract—at any level—causes a tolerance spike that plain leaf simply doesn’t. I’ve been 2g per dose for nearly a decade now and haven’t felt the need to increase that.

Also, 7-OH is still largely legal, and it’s pretty damn expensive. His prices are consistent with the rest of the industry so he would be taking a big loss by spiking everything — though who’s to say that wouldn’t be offset by brand loyalty, I suppose. Especially if he really didn’t “need” the money.

Wouldn’t you be able to see tiny crystals in the powder when you hold it up to the light?

[T0wlie04]

The feasibility of it is certainly questionable but sometimes i wonder… literally no other leaf compares to some of his batches like midnight sleigh… that shit is so potent. As well as others…

[BallzDeep9]

i care way more about his leaf being enhanced with something than i do about the lead and heavy metals testing.... Salmonella is another issue for sure and if he’s putting out leaf that tested positive for it and someone gets actually sick he is just asking for a law suit.

But heavy metals like lead are essentially ie Inevitable. Huge issue in the supplement industry too—matcha, magnesium and protein powder etc— and unless you vet the shit out of these supplement companies and you ensure they test every batch then you’re probably getting exposure there as well. It’s in our soil and it’s in all the heavy equipment manufacturers use to process materials.

yeah imo now the metals are #1 problem w/ Plain Leaf... err I guess they now call it "Whole Leaf" haha like I really want the whole 98% Green Dirt product ? Hell No I only want the 2% alkaloids!! - So DTE still has the Solar Flare extract, and a new one, its been awhile but his extracts are top quality... Guaranteed Zero metals or microbials lol!! ~ Salmonella isn't really a likely concern anymore (?) since the Indo's now use modern Gamma Ray cold pasteurization...

But DTE for sure, is among handful of "Independent" Leaf vendors who may survive ? Hopefully ! (I agree, Not practical to "spike" Leaf, @ same price? No way..) Hard to imagine how all the AKA vendors can hang on... All of the growth in NEW Buyers - are for Advanced Alkaloid products. 7Oh, MIT tablets, etc.. I see Kats has a table @ Champs Show opening in Vegas this week. So I guess the Happy Hippo's (also in Vegas) are competing for Retail smoke shop business.

Anyway personally I'm on a Taper Down - amazing "How Low can you Go?" with 7Oh - the answer for me, Less than 4 mg. Yes. Per day! Break a dollar tab into quarters! Along with my usual 1 gram Leaf, even as little as, 2 mg powder 97% pure 7Oh = good effects.

[7-hydroxymitragynine]

Anyway personally I'm on a Taper Down - amazing "How Low can you Go?" with 7Oh - the answer for me, Less than 4 mg. Yes. Per day! Break a dollar tab into quarters! Along with my usual 1 gram Leaf, even as little as, 2 mg powder 97% pure 7Oh = good effects.

Damn 2mg is a pretty low amount, but yeah 4mg I do feel some pain relief and effects from..

I've been mixing it with some shitty plain lear that gives me the wobbles for no apparent reason even at way lower dose than I normally take. Guess I need to pick up some STH or DTE since Denette is gone.

[Jfish030]

The small batch vendors, who typically say they have the "better" leaf are not normally testing or dont care about the test results, just mit. I dont say this without having done the research and continued research. This company isnt the only one I have seen post failing labs on product currently sold. Which when you see a lab with clear numerical values higher then allowed, it looks worse then the labs that look edited. You either assume they dont even know whats allowed which is scary as its their job to and for your protection as a customer or they dont care about what they sell, as long as it test high mit. If he really did do all this with multiple failed products then there is no room for excuses. One time or maybe 2 times in a duration of years, yeah i could get behind that and say accidents happen, but that doesnt look to be what happened.


If you sell untreated kratom(non gamma treated, or heat treated) you will have on average 0.2% more mitragynine for your test results which will make you look better for unknowing customers. The other aspect is the indonesian's no matter what they tell you, all work in groups. If they know your not testing, or dont care about the results you get the stuff that was rejected or failed from another USA vendor. They will also continue to use the non stainless steel grinders which rent out cheaper and come with much lower costs but produce more lead contamination. In Indonesia, the high mit strains that fail for lead or microbial are still valuable, because there's always someone willing to buy high MIT strains that they know do not test or care. Low MIT and failed test, that stuff normally gets abandoned or possibly sold to other countries outside the USA. Im not 100% where it goes but i do know during rare instances of severe bad kratom production in Indonesia a lot of crappy kratom suddenly appears and its normally 50% fail and 50% passing of the weakest kratom possible 0.8% or less mit greens.

Gamma treatment kills off all growth, which clears up e coli and mold/yeast product issues. It also allows the product to have a much longer shelf life. With no living mold/yeast the product cant grow new amounts easily unless exposed to new air/moisture. Back in 2017-2019 almost all kratom was not gamma treated. There were so many issues with kratom back before gamma treatment. We were in the first group of kratom vendors (dozen or so) that started buying gamma treated kratom. We were having issues stocking product that would come back passing and you can only ask the Indonesians for so much help before they run with the money. We quickly noticed the drop in mitragynine numbers but quickly realized the main issues left with kratom were spotty lead issues and even more rare salmonella. Gamma treatment kills salmonella but according the the FDA no salmonella dead or alive is allow. E coli it can be dead no issues.

New Indonesia Regulations require all kratom to be gamma treated and pass Indonesia government lab testing. Indonesia is a corrupt country and if the indonesian wants to pay the government official they can bypass this regulation (recently in the past few months it seems to be less wide open and the corruption has dampened down alot, for now)

Ballz commented on the lead issue for him. With kratom yes the lead is most likely the biggest issue for safety. Its also the hardest to tame from a vendor/importer. The issue is Indonesia throws all their trash in the rivers, using it as a landfill because they dont really have landfills. They just use the river. Most kratom is grown near the rivers. The soil is bad. If you find a supplier with good soil, consistent low lead results a big rain can happen and the river floods and they you get higher lead readings. Its almost impossible to get completely away from it. Using appropriate amounts of kratom per day is overall the best solution for everyone and will always keep you safe.

[herbalhippie]

Ballz commented on the lead issue for him. With kratom yes the lead is most likely the biggest issue for safety. Its also the hardest to tame from a vendor/importer. The issue is Indonesia throws all their trash in the rivers, using it as a landfill because they dont really have landfills. They just use the river. Most kratom is grown near the rivers. The soil is bad. If you find a supplier with good soil, consistent low lead results a big rain can happen and the river floods and they you get higher lead readings. Its almost impossible to get completely away from it. Using appropriate amounts of kratom per day is overall the best solution for everyone and will always keep you safe.

Wow, thank you for all the information Jfish! It's good to see you here.