How often do you guys change vendors?

[Spacebar]

I've been taking for kratom daily for about three years now and have changed vendors about three times. The first time was because the vendor began to charge way too much, I don't even recall their name anymore. Then I would kind of bounce around from vendor to vendor, bought a kilo in Michigan (which sucked by the way) and took that until it was mostly gone before throwing it away. For over a year I have been using the same vendor, but I have pretty much lost the effects entirely, even after a 30 day break. I've tried several different batches from them.

I decided to try another vendor from Florida and just received a sample pack from them today and have quite a nice burn. Took the exact same dose. I probably haven't felt the effects this strong in over a year.

The thing is, I almost feel guilty for going elsewhere. I like the idea of having a relationship and I'll occasionally tip my current vendor.

Do you guys switch vendors? If so, how often?

[Kelleytoons]

Depends on what you mean by "changing" vendors - I buy from three or four vendors frequently, but there are a total of around 10 that I would still buy from, on a infrequent basis.

As a VERY general rule it's best to switch batches from different vendors every day for three days - IOW, you shouldn't be using the same vendor more than once every three days for the best experience. Obviously YMMV and it can vary even among batches, but my rotation includes all ten of those vendors. There are only three I would never buy from again (all large batch vendors selling crap).

[Hulu2021]

Yea i have about 6 vendors that i buy from regularly. I don’t only use one place. Rotation is key . Our bodies get used to the alkaloids fast.
Different places equals more variety. Different suppliers and such.
I’m sure there’s a multitude of suppliers and the more you vary it up the more you feel it.
so…
for example on any given day i’ll use vendor 1 in the am, and vendor 2 in the mid day, 1 or 2 or 3 at night, and so randomly we pick what we take. could be the same or one we haven’t had in a while.

Most of us purchase way more than we will use; and often find ourselves selling or trading some of what we have. One bad habit i have is buying a kilo or multiple bags at least of some strains lol.

in reality i’ll never really use more than 250g or a strain because it just seems like by that time i don’t feel it working anymore.
This is because our bodies just get so use to the alkaloid makeup. I mean the “terroir” causes the trees to have different alkaloid profiles.

It’s a lot of fun

[Spacebar]

Yea i have about 6 vendors that i buy from regularly. I don’t only use one place. Rotation is key . Our bodies get used to the alkaloids fast.
Different places equals more variety. Different suppliers and such.
I’m sure there’s a multitude of suppliers and the more you vary it up the more you feel it.
so…
for example on any given day i’ll use vendor 1 in the am, and vendor 2 in the mid day, 1 or 2 or 3 at night, and so randomly we pick what we take. could be the same or one we haven’t had in a while.

Most of us purchase way more than we will use; and often find ourselves selling or trading some of what we have. One bad habit i have is buying a kilo or multiple bags at least of some strains lol.

in reality i’ll never really use more than 250g or a strain because it just seems like by that time i don’t feel it working anymore.
This is because our bodies just get so use to the alkaloid makeup. I mean the “terroir” causes the trees to have different alkaloid profiles.

It’s a lot of fun

Oh, how I envy those of you who live in states where kratom is legal. Finding a reliable supplier, who ships and accepts different forms of payment is tricky sometimes. I went to Florida once and went to a kratom/kava bar and the people there were so cool. I'm grateful to the vendors who do ship to me, but I can't imagine running a business and willingly opening myself up to that kind of liability. It's not federally illegal, but still.

I'll try doing what you and the one dude who likes tennis suggested (can't see his name from here lol). It's just so much cheaper to buy in bulk!

[jabro70]

I think the vendors probably rotate farmers just about as much as we rotate vendors. Sure, they have their go-tos - just like I do, but if farmer “R” who used to send Vendor “A” the FIRE, suddenly starts sending Vendor “A” the “okay” or the “shitty”, do you think Vendor “A” is gonna stick with Farmer “R” for more than a couple bad orders?

I like rotating my time periods just as much as rotating vendors. If any of y’all have some older leaf, go back and visit it every once in a while. Some of it will probably pleasantly surprise you.

[Spacebar]

I think the vendors probably rotate farmers just about as much as we rotate vendors. Sure, they have their go-tos - just like I do, but if farmer “R” who used to send Vendor “A” the FIRE, suddenly starts sending Vendor “A” the “okay” or the “shitty”, do you think Vendor “A” is gonna stick with Farmer “R” for more than a couple bad orders?

I like rotating my time periods just as much as rotating vendors. If any of y’all have some older leaf, go back and visit it every once in a while. Some of it will probably pleasantly surprise you.

I don't know, finding a reliable farmer can't be that easy. I know the main vendor I've been using has visited Thailand or Indonesia (can't remember which) and that's when he set up the arrangements.

[Hulu2021]

@jabro

i knew it!! they prob do send the fire to a vendor one time and another vendor the next time. Our vendors don’t know what it’s gonna be like when they get it. could be a flop. Or could be excellent.

I think if i was a vendor i would, make blends from different shipments. So like separate all my kilos by fire, regular, weak. Then consistently make blends using all 3 types.

for example say one blend has some from june, some from january, and some from April, all in one blend. As long as the leaf isn’t older than a year or two it will still be pretty fresh.

that way it would be more consistent.

I bet these vendors stress out so much.

oh when will my shipment come?
will it be fire or suck?
when can i sell the rest of my stock and pay my supplier

too much stress for me to do. I’m glad we have all these nice places.

Also, I’m sorry to the person who lives in an illegal state. It’s amazing that they can go get wasted at a bar,but can’t sit at home and drink tea. It’s not intoxicating like alcohol is. I feel like my judgment is same. it’s like an aleve pill lol

[Madvillain626]

i have a starting five and then some backup vendors that sometimes come thru with amazing batches on the same level as my top 5. Mostly a mix of availability, quality, price, & body chemisty. A few vendors I haven't tried yet (Heavenleaf, Soultanic, kratom-OG, for example)

[LuckyHerbals]

I think if i was a vendor i would, make blends from different shipments. So like separate all my kilos by fire, regular, weak. Then consistently make blends using all 3 types.

for example say one blend has some from june, some from january, and some from April, all in one blend. As long as the leaf isn’t older than a year or two it will still be pretty fresh.

that way it would be more consistent.

That's how we try to blend I've noticed the majority of vendors don't blend tho. They just take larger bags and portion them into smaller bags. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, it's hard to find an unblended color that hits all the marks.

[Hulu2021]

not sure where i was influenced from…….

[Catcrazy]

Great question as well as great discussions! After joining Double M, I've been trying many vendors over the course of the year. Sadly, most kratom we've bought, doesn't seem to have the "zing"... not sure if this year's crops from all the farmers used, have noticed the effects of their products???
Definitely keep a rotation a vendors' products to vary daily is great advice!

[BallzDeep9]

After joining Double M, I've been trying many vendors over the course of the year. Sadly, most kratom we've bought, doesn't seem to have the "zing"...

There's just NO solid evidence that any one "vendor" is overall better than any other... They all get better & worse batches. ~( TFH being the 1 vendor doing Consumer Testing and proven 10+ years experience.) ~ Otherwise it's all Marketing B-S just like the whole fake strains nonsense.

Reviews mean nothing... that's #1 ~ since it's proven the same kratom can affect the same person differently from 1 day to the next Reviews and "Hype" are completely subjective - So buying more $ based on real evidence, Facts such as: Years in business, experience, website, connections, and product selection - Is more likely you'll receive a better quality kratom.

For more "Zing" imo there's much more Bang for your Buck, in managing receptors - and controlling amount of Mitragynine per serving... NO "vendor" has shown any Plain Leaf powder with a MIT content over 2%. So right there, Plain Leaf has a hard Limit - and science has also proven: 1- Kratom is only a partial agonist. For a stronger kratom experience - the ratio of alkaloids can be changed, by 1- lower servings, 2- adding Extract to enhance the potency. So the top "vendors" are those who offer a greater variety of products including Extract. . at reasonable prices of course

[terposton]

I have been a Kratom user for 8 years and for the last nearly 4 years I've used almost exclusively Texas Family Harvest. I don't think the vendor switching is a big deal if you find a vendor that is as consistent as TFH. While I do have a lot of vendors, I just don't think they are as good as my favorite vendor. The most important thing for me is that I only dose during an 8 hour period during the day and then not use any for 16 hours. It is just what has always worked for me and everyone is different. I'm also not strict on switching a strain to something different every dose like some are. There are a few of my favorites that I do fine using the same strain on at lease one of my doses, several days in a row. Listen to Ballz as his advice is right on and he is a kratom veteran. I would like to add that I do use other vendors some of the time and there are a few that have some standout batches that I really like, it's just that I use TFH everyday with no problem regarding tolerance.

[IndelibleDotInk]

What Ballz said is right, but a lot of us bounce around and rotate vendors and batches to keep things fresh, and there are a number of people vending who really know how to source good kratom.

[OriginalLHB]

I'm one of those strange people who have never really experienced "tolerance" beyond a very basic level. I dose 5 x per day, every day, but my dose is only about 2.75 grams, and never above 3 grams. I do not enjoy ANY Kratom at over 3 grams.

Maybe the reason that I have never experience tolerance is because I rotate through a large number of vendors. There are probably 7 that are in my main rotation, but then there are at least 10 that I rotate in and out of that basic rotation. I don't do it because I am trying to avoid tolerance, I do it because I like variety.

I don't know what the basic status of the debate is over whether strains are a "real" thing or not, but I imagine I experience a significantly different affect from most of the strains I use, but especially across vendors. Most vendors have a very distinctive "house flavor" to me.

[Kelleytoons]

Leaving aside the "strains" controversy (most vendors prefer you to use "batch" to refer to their stuff, as even THEY don't know what a "strain" really is) I think there are several things we know (and a WHOLE lot we don't know):

1) Folks who sell us stuff (vendors) get their products mostly from the same farmers - there aren't very many single source farmers out there (folks who grow and/or harvest the kratom and sell to only one vendor - as far as I know there is only one).

2) Even leaves grown in two trees side by side can vary greatly in their composition, with one having a ton more "good stuff" than another.

3) Even leaves from the SAME tree can vary greatly in their composition from year to year.

Beyond that it's all mostly a shell game. So whether you use a ton of different vendors, or whether you only use the same one selling the same name you are most likely getting a variety. What you do NOT get is a variety using the same batch - so if you bought a few kilos of something and started using it it's VERY likely you would build up a tolerance for it fairly quickly.

But there's also a ton we can't even begin to figure out about individual chemistry and conditions, which is why it's so hard to generalize (and that leaves aside the fact that we are almost 100% simply reporting anecdotal evidence here - while there are some of us who journal regularly unless it's under very controlled conditions we aren't collecting data properly. That's why scientific studies are so often contradictory unless the scientists involved are in control of the entire environment).

I still think the best thing is to rotate both batches and vendors often but what works for me may not be what works for one single other person. The fascinating (and frustrating) thing about kratom is that there is a TON of stuff we will never know. Never.

[boureka]

After joining Double M, I've been trying many vendors over the course of the year. Sadly, most kratom we've bought, doesn't seem to have the "zing"...

There's just NO solid evidence that any one "vendor" is overall better than any other... They all get better & worse batches. ~( TFH being the 1 vendor doing Consumer Testing and proven 10+ years experience.) ~ Otherwise it's all Marketing B-S just like the whole fake strains nonsense.


For more "Zing" imo there's much more Bang for your Buck, in managing receptors - and controlling amount of Mitragynine per serving... NO "vendor" has shown any Plain Leaf powder with a MIT content over 2%. So right there, Plain Leaf has a hard Limit - and science has also proven: 1- Kratom is only a partial agonist. For a stronger kratom experience - the ratio of alkaloids can be changed, by 1- lower servings, 2- adding Extract to enhance the potency. So the top "vendors" are those who offer a greater variety of products including Extract. . at reasonable prices of course

I'm unclear how lowering your dosage while adding extract differs from just raising your dose. I'm very interested in receptor management and logic says lower your dose and time between doses and head for the hills if you see any extract in the room. Could you explain how extract helps with receptor management in a way that increased powder doesn't?

[Eu4oric906]

I pretty much buy from everyone all the time, so I guess im rotating.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

1) Folks who sell us stuff (vendors) get their products mostly from the same farmers - there aren't very many single source farmers out there (folks who grow and/or harvest the kratom and sell to only one vendor - as far as I know there is only one).

Out of curiosity, who is this vendor, if you don't mind me asking?

[Purrpgodd Peebles]

I have 2 vendors I stick with dazed dragons and Northeast-Botanicals.

[BallzDeep9]

I'm unclear how lowering your dosage while adding extract differs from just raising your dose.

Kratom is a complex plant with > 30 alkaloids but the major active ingredient is Mitragynine.... Over recent years it seems, there's been advancements in science of how the plant works, but the Pharmacology team at Univ Florida - still admit to areas which are not completely understood... For example the action of Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl created internally from liver and how raw Mitragynine gets metabolized into 7-Hydroxymitragynine aka "7-Ohm" via your CYP3A4 enzyme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine_pseudoindoxyl

So we know the active = Mitragynine, is present in < 2 percent by weight (often < 1 percent in Bulk powder), with other alkaloids present in only trace amounts at less than Threshold dosages then - Plain Leaf kratom = contains 98% Dirt.... plant material little or no value, and possibly harmful as those trace alks haven't been studied much (Corynantheidine, paynanthiene, speciogynine, speciociliatine, for starters - Reference: 2016 paper by Kruegel et al.) In fact at least ONE of those = is an opioid antagonistwhich would be = negative effects, and is thought to be responsible for the "No Effects" syndrome by those who take huge servings "My kratom isn't working anymore" etc

In ALL herbal medicine... The use of extract and tinctures is considered a more refined and superior method of ingesting "Active" goodies, as opposed to eating raw plants and dirt... However there is some belief within the kratom community that a small amount of "Full Spectrum" plant - helps to gain a better quality experience. That's where I'm at right now - I don't wanna eat raw dirt, But also it seems there's something missing with Mitragynine Isolate especially... So the optimal serving then = Small amount of Plain Leaf, spiked with a measured serving of Extract.

I think at this point - We can observe, Side Effects from over consumption "abuse" of kratom in huge amounts... which is very common. Sides include :: Lethargy, anhedonia, insomnia, irritability, nausea, constipation, night sweating, RLS and muscle spasms... Liver and thyroid problems, even Hair loss and anorexia. Also... bacteria found in Plain Leaf - may cause H. pylori infection aka stomach ulcers.

EDITED Proof Read = Mitragynine is the alkaloid name. "Mitragyna" is the plant species name. duh...

[boureka]

Ballz, wow... there's a lot there. Thanks.

[BallzDeep9]

yeah sorry I ran too late to Proof Read so of course I typed "MItragyna" the plant name... where I meant to say "Mitragynine" 2 different things lol