Palmitoylethanolamide - a novel OPIOID tolerance reducer

[CatfatherB]

Thanks guys!!

[Theanine]

Hey Theanine, do you just eyeball 500 mgs.? It says to use a quarter teaspoon but since I can't use it? Just eyeball what looks like it would fit?

Yes, I just eyeball mine, there is really no way to weigh it, but the dosage does not have to be precise, half a gram is about the size of a medium pea.....

PS. Also, ensure to seal it tightly. Over time, the material dries and actually becomes easier to handle. My previous batch you can just pick out with your fingers and roll it, place it under the tongue to dissolve. The problem with that though, some potency is also lost. So, if you receive a dryer specimen, it just means that it's either older, or that it was not stored properly, but like I said, it is easier to handle in that state.

[Rnb1987]

tolerance had gotten a little ridiculous. I stopped measuring my doses with a scale I would just put two big spoonfuls in my cup every time and then just recently I had just been pouring straight from the kilo bag. Been burning way too much just to feel normal. I started taking PEA Five days ago. I noticed a substantial Increase in the length of my burn on day two. And for the first time in a very long time did not take my second dose until after 5 PM. On days four five and this morning being six. I damn near forgot to burn because my body doesn’t feel like it needs it. Also my wife suffers from a lot of female pain and also lower back pain. She has stopped taking the ibuprofen and Tylenol because she says that 1/2 of a tablet works better.(she does not burn)

[Theanine]

tolerance had gotten a little ridiculous. I stopped measuring my doses with a scale I would just put two big spoonfuls in my cup every time and then just recently I had just been pouring straight from the kilo bag. Been burning way too much just to feel normal. I started taking PEA Five days ago. I noticed a substantial Increase in the length of my burn on day two. And for the first time in a very long time did not take my second dose until after 5 PM. On days four five and this morning being six. I damn near forgot to burn because my body doesn’t feel like it needs it. Also my wife suffers from a lot of female pain and also lower back pain. She has stopped taking the ibuprofen and Tylenol because she says that 1/2 of a tablet works better.(she does not burn)

You definitely do not want to take random kratom doses, I think you probably realize that. This is a good report, it is very indicative of what this supplement does. The report about your wife's experience is also very interesting and telling.

Personally, I have been taking the Palmitoylethanolamide in cycles for the past couple of months. I find that to be the most effective use pattern. I take half a ComfortMax pill in the evening, both AM and PM, I can't tell the difference in effects between them. I usually would take it every other day, with weekends off. When I stop its intake, I do notice my tolerance jump, but not by much because I also take Cat's Claw extract, Turmeric extract, DLPA, among others to mitigate my opioid tolerance, effectively so. I did try to stop my entire regimen for a bit, on only the second day my kratom stopped working as intended, I was simply dosing to stay off my withdrawals, I really am not sure how people even take kratom with NOTHING else in their diets. I am at 25 gram per day on average, I could easily lower it, but I require its full mood lifting effects. At that use level, tolerance mitigators are simply a must. I would say that if you manage to stay under 10 grams per day, Kratom's own natural tolerance reducing ability might be sufficient, there are opioid antagonists in it of course, predominantly in its stem and vein. In fact, stem and vein can be used on its own or mixed in your daily doses to effectively control that tolerance.

Another good technique is to allow a very long daily break from your kratom, around 12 hours is advised, I often do more by skipping my nightly dose. If you follow what is written in this paragraph, you should NEVER run into any serious issues in using this plant and deriving the most benefit out of it. There is much more to it that that, but if you are not willing to read more and look for your own methods, what I have described here would suffice, nothing else is really needed.

Neglect this advice and pay for it with your own misery.

[guitartodd77]

I'm cycling PEA twice a week along with cats claw extract twice a week on alternate nights that I'm not taking PEA. I was also doing the same with DPLA. I was basically taking one of them every night of the week with the exception of Sunday where I took nothing.

However, I've stopped taking the DLPA. I noticed that it consistently and significantly reduced many of the more enjoyable effects of kratom for me. Since removing the DLPA from my cycle, my doses have been amazing and I do not have to raise my dose beyond 5gs. In fact, many if my newer strains require that I cut that in half or more but that is due to incredible potency.

Anyone have similar experiences with DLPA?

[Theanine]

I'm cycling PEA twice a week along with cats claw extract twice a week on alternate nights that I'm not taking PEA. I was also doing the same with DPLA. I was basically taking one of them every night of the week with the exception of Sunday where I took nothing.

However, I've stopped taking the DLPA. I noticed that it consistently and significantly reduced many of the more enjoyable effects of kratom for me. Since removing the DLPA from my cycle, my doses have been amazing and I do not have to raise my dose beyond 5gs. In fact, many if my newer strains require that I cut that in half or more but that is due to incredible potency.

Anyone have similar experiences with DLPA?

Were you taking that DLPA with your Kratom? What was your usage pattern? I take mine in the evenings with at least a 12 hours before dosing Kratom. I haven't noticed it diminish the effects, so it could be something else entirely. Sometimes, my burns are not as good than other days, and I am taking exactly the same supplements. Often, it is due to having some very potent blends the day before, but not always. It's a tricky plant to be sure.

[guitartodd77]

I'm cycling PEA twice a week along with cats claw extract twice a week on alternate nights that I'm not taking PEA. I was also doing the same with DPLA. I was basically taking one of them every night of the week with the exception of Sunday where I took nothing.

However, I've stopped taking the DLPA. I noticed that it consistently and significantly reduced many of the more enjoyable effects of kratom for me. Since removing the DLPA from my cycle, my doses have been amazing and I do not have to raise my dose beyond 5gs. In fact, many if my newer strains require that I cut that in half or more but that is due to incredible potency.

Anyone have similar experiences with DLPA?

Were you taking that DLPA with your Kratom? What was your usage pattern? I take mine in the evenings with at least a 12 hours before dosing Kratom. I haven't noticed it diminish the effects, so it could be something else entirely. Sometimes, my burns are not as good than other days, and I am taking exactly the same supplements. Often, it is due to having some very potent blends the day before, but not always. It's a tricky plant to be sure.

I take it about two hours after my last dose of the day or right before bed. Whichever comes first. I also try and create a gap of about 10-12 hours in between my last dose and the first dose of the next day.

Something I have noticed with DLPA is that it can turn a very relaxing and/or sedative dose into a stimulating dose. This causes some insomnia when it happens but this effect is inconsistent. Not sure what causes it but the DLPA seems to be the catalyst when it does happen.

I take several prescription medications (not for pain anymore thanks to kratom) so that may be a factor.

[Theanine]

I'm cycling PEA twice a week along with cats claw extract twice a week on alternate nights that I'm not taking PEA. I was also doing the same with DPLA. I was basically taking one of them every night of the week with the exception of Sunday where I took nothing.

However, I've stopped taking the DLPA. I noticed that it consistently and significantly reduced many of the more enjoyable effects of kratom for me. Since removing the DLPA from my cycle, my doses have been amazing and I do not have to raise my dose beyond 5gs. In fact, many if my newer strains require that I cut that in half or more but that is due to incredible potency.

Anyone have similar experiences with DLPA?

Were you taking that DLPA with your Kratom? What was your usage pattern? I take mine in the evenings with at least a 12 hours before dosing Kratom. I haven't noticed it diminish the effects, so it could be something else entirely. Sometimes, my burns are not as good than other days, and I am taking exactly the same supplements. Often, it is due to having some very potent blends the day before, but not always. It's a tricky plant to be sure.

I take it about two hours after my last dose of the day or right before bed. Whichever comes first. I also try and create a gap of about 10-12 hours in between my last dose and the first dose of the next day.

Something I have noticed with DLPA is that it can turn a very relaxing and/or sedative dose into a stimulating dose. This causes some insomnia when it happens but this effect is inconsistent. Not sure what causes it but the DLPA seems to be the catalyst when it does happen.

I take several prescription medications (not for pain anymore thanks to kratom) so that may be a factor.

There may be something to this, if I take the DLPA then dose a few hours later, my mood lift is diminished, but I did not think that it would extend into the morning, but it might. I will take a few days of off that, per your advice, see what happens.

DLPA can indeed be stimulatory. This is your main dopamine cycle precursor next to l-Tyrosine, so it follows its pharmacodynamics. It is also known to mitigate nerve pain all on its own like the Palmitoylethanolamide itself....

[trigger]

Wish I had seen this thread sooner.

[VanessaR18]

Anyone had zero effect taking PEA? I took the day and night pills, tried only day or only night and never felt it decreases my tolerance. I took it consistently for a little over 2 weeks straight and it didn’t help at all. Anyone else experience this? Advice for increasing the efficacy of it? I’m taking around 8g doses 3-4 times a day, effects of each dose only lasting 3-4 hours. I desperately need to get down to 1-2g doses twice a day cuz I can’t afford to go through 500g every 3-4 weeks and my husband isn’t convinced kratom is really helping me/worth buying anymore and thinks I might need to quit taking it. I’m terrified of quitting cuz it’s the only thing that helps my pain, depression and anxiety. I just wanna get my dosing under control and taking a total break isn’t possible. I tried and after a few hours I was a complete bawling, emotional mess and in a ton of pain.

I’m open to any advice on decreasing my tolerance, improving efficacy of kratom or successfully tapering.

[BallzDeep9]

Anyone else experience this? Advice for increasing the efficacy of it? I’m taking around 8g doses 3-4 times a day, effects of each dose only lasting 3-4 hours. I desperately need to get down to 1-2g doses twice a day ...

I’m open to any advice on decreasing my tolerance, improving efficacy of kratom or successfully tapering.

Alrighty then! Let's see about a tolerance RE-SET, either cold turkey or doing a taper.. You're not alone. Common problem!!

I just posted to another guy, HERE. Use the Search Bar. and also, do a Reddit search. Study up and plan ahead... I'm starting to think the majority of kratomites, are having a similar prob? I'm no "expert" but ime (In my experience) taking 30g per day is way too much. Been there!

What I DID, was first get together some Agmatine, some BSO, some S+V, Tylenol and sleep aids.. Then Taper down over like 1 week.. Switch to Stem +Vein over 3 days, then finally.. After getting my GPD down < 5 = jump off completely!! I used Agmatine, and BSO at night, and sleep aids! ( Theanine, Tylenol, melatonin.) Important to get good sleep.. Absolutely NO opioids!!

Ready to get started? As brave777 posted, take 2-3 weeks if necessary.. Carefully measure your servings. Knock 2g off each dose - Then drop 1 gram/ dose, every few days - All the "bad side effects" of kratom, come from abusing the leaf & taking too much. RLS... feeling like crap every morning.. Inter dose withdrawals. The Honeymoon period.... is over

Sorry, I don't wanna lecture. But this PEA thing, is totally new and unproven - Go with what "works". Search on Reddit and start reading.. that's our Knowledge Base. Hey, I love MM, but we have only a tiny # fraction of Info - And I really hate to say it but... you "may" need to check out r/quittingkratom. Again.. common problem. Because we can't O.D. on kratom, then, whooppee...

We all think "Gee I'll just take More and More!" No. Kratom does not work like that!! Kratom has a ceiling effect... And now, you must re-set your tolerance. Either Taper down... or Cold Turkey. Your choice!!

Kratom is Kratom. FX only last 2 hours, sorry. You can only "potentiate" so much. Sorry. We all want "stronger" kratom, sorry. Chasing the dragon, taking more and more... is a bad idea. You know the old saying: Everything in moderation/ Nothing to excess.

[Kindashewantsto]

Thank you for this write up!

I am eager to try this, not only for the tolerance reducing effects but also because of my chronic pain and nerve pain, and inflammation. This seems like something I should have tried a long time ago!

Sitting here in intense pain all the damn time, I am so ready for anything to help. Kratom definitely helps me, but my pain is so constant and intense that it doesn't take it all away, and while it dulls it enough most of the time, it is still persistent.

I did some research and it doesn't seem like the ingredients will negatively impact my lupus - so I will be trying this ASAP!

Thanks again!

No problemo, my friend. This is what we are here for after all! I am so sorry to hear that you're in so much chronic pain. It is very unfair to you, no one should be punished like this! Cruel and unusual, and you have done no wrong. Nature is such a cruel mistress. And yet, that mistress gifts us too, this plant of life is a nature's gift to us, unworthy humans.

In your situation, and for other people such as yourself, opioid tolerance mitigation is a question of life and death, or at the very least the quality of life itself. I am glad to see that you aren't taking it laying down and simply accepting of a river of poison that doctors are wanting to throw your way. Instead, you are choosing an alternative path, a path which requires more thinking and experimentation, but one that won't lead you to the absolutely guaranteed ruination that traditional opioids offer.

Do give DLPA, Cat's Claw, Turmeric extract, Agmatine, etc a look. There is much written about those and other tolerance reducers. As I said, for a chronic pain sufferer, especially something like what you have, Kratom and ways to keep it working indefinitely is paramount! Kratom on!

Thanks!

Unfortunately with my autoimmune disorder I can't take cats claw or turmeric, they boost the immune system and therefor make me sick.

But after on and off usage of the comfortmax, I have to say it has worked pretty well! The biggest benefit I have seen is I sleep through the nigh great and my mornings are much easier in terms of low pain.

Thanks so much flr the info! The pills are fucking huge though haha, I chop em in half!!

[herbalhippie]

Can you take PEA and cat's claw at the same time (bedtime)?

[trigger]

Can you take PEA and cat's claw at the same time (bedtime)?

Someone else in this thread said they take them together. Bottom of page 2 maybe?

[Theanine]

Can you take PEA and cat's claw at the same time (bedtime)?

I take both an hour after my last daily burn, evening time. It may not work for all, but it works for me, hence my desire to share it with the world.....

[plumsmooth]

In fact, stem and vein can be used on its own or mixed in your daily doses to effectively control that tolerance.

Due to the antagonist accentuation wouldn't stem and vein neutralize some of the effects of the Kratom leaf. That said, I have read of people preferring burns with S&V added, some saying it creates a more well rounded effect? Thanks for your time...

[Theanine]

In fact, stem and vein can be used on its own or mixed in your daily doses to effectively control that tolerance.

Due to the antagonist accentuation wouldn't stem and vein neutralize some of the effects of the Kratom leaf. That said, I have read of people preferring burns with S&V added, some saying it creates a more well rounded effect? Thanks for your time...

It would most certainly be less potent and uplifting, just as varieties WITHOUT any stem and vein are more potent and mood lifting. Because, as you say, Kratom's stem and vein is heavy with opioid ANTAGONISTS, that is the foundation of its own opioid reduction mechanism. So, it would be logical to assume that any Kratom with stem and vein provides a far more complete and robust alkaloid profile which naturally minimizes tolerance formation, but people do tend to prefer more potent, stem and vein free varieties which are not good for tolerance. I too like those, but I ensure to also utilize plenty of regular, properly balanced and complete regular Kratom, with its stem and vein naturally present or added as a side load.

[plumsmooth]

I like the way you think. Can you tell me the origins of your name. I have Theanine in my supplement pantry should I take more notice of it?

Anyway, I think I am going to try as I attempt to reduce my morning dose in favor of my favorite afternoon "after my nap dose" -- which jump starts my evening into happiness -- to add 2 grams S&V to 2-3 regular for my morning -- at least every other day and maybe combined with my new nightime Palmitoylethanolamide regimen boost my afternoon.

Personally I would like to get back to 1 afternoon dose with a booster but I have become emotionally attached to my morning dose -- which is usually 16 hours after my 4PM final. I feel as though if I had like one 5 gram burn every 24 hours that tolerance would be negligible...

I'm also convinced my afternoon nap is the best move for the mood of a second dose!

[herbalhippie]

So I've been doing pretty well with taking Cat's Claw, actually yesterday was very good! Then I added a PEA capsule last night right before bed when I took Cat's Claw. Today I did not have the good effects I'd been getting from Cat's Claw only, so I won't take the PEA again probably.

[CatfatherB]

Have you reduced your dose from just taking cats claw alone?

[herbalhippie]

Have you reduced your dose from just taking cats claw alone?

I haven't reduced yet, no, but my doses are hitting better! I'm rather impressed with the cat's claw!

[Theanine]

I like the way you think. Can you tell me the origins of your name. I have Theanine in my supplement pantry should I take more notice of it?

Anyway, I think I am going to try as I attempt to reduce my morning dose in favor of my favorite afternoon "after my nap dose" -- which jump starts my evening into happiness -- to add 2 grams S&V to 2-3 regular for my morning -- at least every other day and maybe combined with my new nightime Palmitoylethanolamide regimen boost my afternoon.

Personally I would like to get back to 1 afternoon dose with a booster but I have become emotionally attached to my morning dose -- which is usually 16 hours after my 4PM final. I feel as though if I had like one 5 gram burn every 24 hours that tolerance would be negligible...

I'm also convinced my afternoon nap is the best move for the mood of a second dose!

Yes, I do indeed love my Theanine lol hence the name. I drink green tea daily, which is abundant in it among many other nutrients. I take a 200 mg capsule in the evenings to help promote sleep. I also take it whenever I am feeling anxious or generally overstimulated, via Kratom or otherwise. It might even help somewhat with the tolerance reduction, but it is likely not significant. So, I take it daily, Palmitoylethanolamide however, I cycle. Sometimes, I only take a dose of the PEA once or twice per week, it seems to suffice.

I would say that the stem and vein is best used on its own, during tapers or when you are not dosing Kratom. You CAN use it with your Kratom, but it will diminish some of its effects.

The longer your daily kratom break is, the better it is for tolerance. Since the actual dosage, its frequency and the total taken per day are the three most important factors affecting kratom tolerance, with your infrequent and low dosing pattern, it is unlikely that you would need much in the way of additional tolerance mitigation. I believe that at 10 grams of Kratom per day or less, Kratom's own, natural build-in opioid antagonism is sufficient in maintaining a low tolerance. From 15 to 20 gpd, you are starting to enter dangerous territory. At my current average daily dosage of 25 grams per day, I most definitely require additional tolerance mitigation, of which Cat's Claw actually takes care. I CAN reduce my dosage, but the mood enhancement which I require daily due to my clinical depression necessitates this level of dosing.

[Theanine]

So I've been doing pretty well with taking Cat's Claw, actually yesterday was very good! Then I added a PEA capsule last night right before bed when I took Cat's Claw. Today I did not have the good effects I'd been getting from Cat's Claw only, so I won't take the PEA again probably.

Yes, Cat's Claw is almost magic, it is better than Hirsuta or other kratom species, in fact there may be nothing better out there for this purpose. I am so glad that I have found it, it would make me a very selfish person not to share it in this community!

As I have previously stated, Palmitoylethanolamide works well in CYCLES, but it does not work well for ALL. So, if you had noticed consistently diminishing returns by using it, then it is clearly best to stop. I personally have not seen that, I found that cyclical use benefits my tolerance reduction regimen, but it is highly individual. Another nuclear tolerance reducer is Agmatine, I ALSO take it in cycles, and it is quite beneficial.

[plumsmooth]

So the timing I see mentioned here seems to be fairly close to the end of the last dose. I am wondering what the difference between that and right before bed would be in result.

Maybe the idea is more time to do its work.
Would taking ones tolerance fixers too soon after a dose break down the after glow of the dose to soon?

However, one weird thing I have noticed is my right before bed dose of PEA seems to have little to no effect on my morning burn. Then, when I hit my afternoon dose, it is as if my tolerance reducer from the night before come to life?

I guess I should try taking PEA soon after my 400PM Afternoon time instead of waiting until before bed around 11PM. That's 7 more hours for the Tolerance redux to hit.

But I am really writing right now to share my DLPA potentiation experience of today.
And BTW, I have used it together with Kratom many times for a while every afternoon session had some DLPA!
But maybe since I haven't stacked it for a while, it is fresh from having a break.

Which is that my normal lack of focus that I live with daily was completely transformed. And in addition I got more energy from my afternoon burn by a good 50%. I just read Dopamine and Adrenaline are effected by DLPA! O.K. I confess, I took a booster dose too today and went for my Post Kratom x-country gentle Jog.

I have to say for anyone that has not tried a DLPA Kratom Stack, please do so soon. But not before bed! As a matter of fact, I'm not sure what taking DLPA before bed would be like my sleep is not that great to begin with from years of Beer drinking and Gaba rebound at 3AM. As a matter of fact the primary reason I am giving up drinking again is because it wrecks my sleep...

In the meantime I am going to experiment with 'stacks' again and try to stop obsessing about tolerance reduction. I'm lying: I am going to do both! But I have to say that for someone tending toward ADD, to add a Dopamine Focus to the Kratom is everything: I did my dishes Yay... Still wish I had a Maid though ha ha....

[Theanine]

So the timing I see mentioned here seems to be fairly close to the end of the last dose. I am wondering what the difference between that and right before bed would be in result.

Maybe the idea is more time to do its work.
Would taking ones tolerance fixers too soon after a dose break down the after glow of the dose to soon?

However, one weird thing I have noticed is my right before bed dose of PEA seems to have little to no effect on my morning burn. Then, when I hit my afternoon dose, it is as if my tolerance reducer from the night before come to life?

I guess I should try taking PEA soon after my 400PM Afternoon time instead of waiting until before bed around 11PM. That's 7 more hours for the Tolerance redux to hit.

But I am really writing right now to share my DLPA potentiation experience of today.
And BTW, I have used it together with Kratom many times for a while every afternoon session had some DLPA!
But maybe since I haven't stacked it for a while, it is fresh from having a break.

Which is that my normal lack of focus that I live with daily was completely transformed. And in addition I got more energy from my afternoon burn by a good 50%. I just read Dopamine and Adrenaline are effected by DLPA! O.K. I confess, I took a booster dose too today and went for my Post Kratom x-country gentle Jog.

I have to say for anyone that has not tried a DLPA Kratom Stack, please do so soon. But not before bed! As a matter of fact, I'm not sure what taking DLPA before bed would be like my sleep is not that great to begin with from years of Beer drinking and Gaba rebound at 3AM. As a matter of fact the primary reason I am giving up drinking again is because it wrecks my sleep...

In the meantime I am going to experiment with 'stacks' again and try to stop obsessing about tolerance reduction. I'm lying: I am going to do both! But I have to say that for someone tending toward ADD, to add a Dopamine Focus to the Kratom is everything: I did my dishes Yay... Still wish I had a Maid though ha ha....

The goal here is to take your tolerance reducers as far away from your next Kratom dose as possible. The purpose of that is to allow for as much time as is possible for any given tolerance reducer to work and also to minimize the interference with Kratom itself, both require time. So, as I have previously stated, I recommend taking them as soon after your last daily Kratom dose as is possible. For me, it is around 5 PM, by morning time, my tolerance mitigating regimen has had its time to work and also to mostly clear the system making a way for a day of Kratom dosing. Tolerance is partly reset and the brain is primed as a result.

DL-PA is also part of my tolerance reduction regimen. I haven't personally noticed it to have any Kratom potentiation abilities. Also, while it is a direct Dopamine pathway precursor, it does not seem to stimulate me much, inexplicably perhaps.

Potentiation with Kratom is ONLY possible by adding another opioid, anything that agonizes those putative Mu/Kappa/Delta opioid receptors. Be it Nigella Sativa (Black Seed Oil), Bergamot or Myrrh essential oils and others. The effects are simply cumulative. Think of it as dropping another opioid on top of your Kratom, surely it would enhance it. The problem comes in with the added tolerance load which is much harder to reverse. Nothing that does NOT provide its own added opioid effect actually potentiates any opioids at all.

Cythocrhome P450 inducers/inhibitors simply modify second pass liver metabolism of the substance, think black pepper or turmeric extract, which is NOT potentiation by definition. I argue that using other opioids for Kratom tapers is counter productive and self defeating as there are literally NO other OPIOIDS which provides the same level of opioid tolerance reduction that the Kratom itself.

[CatfatherB]

Theanine, what about Shilajit, I've been taking it in the morning, should I wait until after my last dose in the day or between my first and second dose? I haven't found my second dose diminished by it?

[Theanine]

Theanine, what about Shilajit, I've been taking it in the morning, should I wait until after my last dose in the day or between my first and second dose? I haven't found my second dose diminished by it?

Actually, I don't believe that Shilajit is a tolerance reducer or a potentiator, although it might be a bit of the latter, it's hard to tell. What I am certain about is that it does NOT negatively interfere with Kratom in any way, so I take mine in the morning. An afternoon dose provides a bit too much stimulation going into the evening. The only time that the "after your last daily kratom dose" rule applies is with tolerance mitigators. Regular supplements, including the Shilajit, could be taken whenever you prefer as long as they do NOT interfere with your kratom.

[plumsmooth]

Well if the combo effect of DLPA with Kratom is not technically potentiation can you give me something to call it because I can tell you that there is no other explanation for an extended focus and energy during my Kratom Burn besides that. Of course it is always possible to miss some other unknown or missed factor. It is true that Kratom is finicky!

[Theanine]

Well if the combo effect of DLPA with Kratom is not technically potentiation can you give me something to call it because I can tell you that there is no other explanation for an extended focus and energy during my Kratom Burn besides that. Of course it is always possible to miss some other unknown or missed factor. It is true that Kratom is finicky!

True potentiation would require an increase in kratom's opioid activity which is only possible by adding other opioids. Having said that, the DLPA might actually synergize with Kratom or even potentiate it for you or others, such is not the case for me though.

If the DLPA had increased some of the Kratom's natural opioid capacity for you, then it would have indeed been deemed a potentiator. If, however, the improvement is in other areas such as stimulation, that improvement could be called synergetic. At the end of the day, what matters are the effects and not what we decide to call them.

If the DLPA had directly improved the Kratom's effects for me, I would have most definitely taken it with my kratom. In me though, the DLPA provides tolerance reduction rather than any potentiation or synergy with kratom. So, I use it accordingly. If you feel as though the DLPA actually BOOSTS the Kratom's positive effects in you, then by all means, take them together. In my personal experience however, DLPA rather blunts the mood lift and euphoria which I expect from kratom, so I take them APART.

[BurntEnds]

Dlpa directly potentiates opioid analgesia. Here's the full text of the pubmed article in PDF form looking at exactly this process...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2425382277

[Theanine]

Dlpa directly potentiates opioid analgesia. Here's the full text of the pubmed article in PDF form looking at exactly this process...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2425382277

It is indeed so, which is my own reasoning for using it as an opioid tolerance reducer. However, if I take it WITH my kratom, it seems to decrease Kratom's natural mood lifting ability, at least to some extent. Much in the same way that other tolerance reducers do, Agmatine, Turmeric or even the Cat's Claw. All work well for tolerance reduction, yet combined with the kratom itself, they seem to take away from it, over and over, in my personal experimentations. So, I take them all apart from my kratom, problem solved. Others may find a differing usage pattern more suitable for them.

DL-phenylalanine's (DL-PA/DLPA) opioid tolerance reduction capacity is mostly due to the Dextro (D) phenylalanine's enkephalinase inhibition, Levo (L) Phenylalanine is the Dopamine precursor in that combination:

DL-phenylalanine markedly potentiates opiate analgesia - an example of nutrient/pharmaceutical up-regulation of the endogenous analgesia system.

Russell AL1, McCarty MF.
Author information
1
Brampton Pain Clinic, Bramalea, Ontario, Canada.
Abstract
In the author's clinical experience, concurrent treatment with DL-phenylalanine (DLPA) often appears to potentiate pain relief and also ease depression in patients receiving opiates for chronic non-malignant pain. An analysis of this phenomenon suggests that it may be mediated, at least in part, by up-regulation of the 'endogenous analgesia system' (EAS), a neural pathway that projects caudally from medullary nuclei to the dorsal horn of the spinal column; when stimulated by chronic pain or therapeutic measures such as opiates or acupuncture, the EAS suppresses activation of second-order pain-receptive neurons in the dorsal horn, and thereby alleviates pain. Since serotonin and enkephalins are key neurotransmitters in the EAS, it is reasonable to predict that measures which promote serotonin activity (such as 5-hydroxytryptophan and serotonin-reuptake inhibitors) as well as enkephalin activity (such as D-phenylalanine, an enkephalinase inhibitor) should potentiate EAS-mediated analgesia - a view consistent with much previous medical research. Comprehensive support of the EAS with well-tolerated nutrients and pharmaceuticals may amplify the analgesic efficacy of chronic opiate therapy, while enabling dosage reductions that minimize opiate side-effects. Analogously, this approach may complement the efficacy of acupuncture and other analgesic measures that activate the EAS.

Reference: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10998643

[A.Boynton]

thank you for posting this! you’re an angel. it did work for me and the results have held for several months. frequency of every other day; doses lowered 3/4; better results

[plumsmooth]

Hey Theanine I got a new one for you to check out if you haven't discovered it yet: Tetrahydropalmatine...

[Theanine]

thank you for posting this! you’re an angel. it did work for me and the results have held for several months. frequency of every other day; doses lowered 3/4; better results

Don't even mention it, we are all here to help each other!

I do agree though, for opioid tolerance management, a less frequent, cycling Palmitoylethanolamide dosing pattern appears to be superior to daily dosing. Likely because of the build up of the Palmitoylethanolamide within the metabolic systems of the body.

Hey Theanine I got a new one for you to check out if you haven't discovered it yet: Tetrahydropalmatine...

Very interesting, that alkaloid is found in many plants including the Corydalis, which is in itself known as a potential opioid tolerance reducer and possibly but unlikely, a potentiator to kratom. I have no personal experience with either Tetrahydropalmatine or Corydalis. Perhaps, someone on here could run some personal experiments with it and report back or share their own existing experiences with the group, it would highly appreciated!

[plumsmooth]

I guess I will try it since I just ordered some L-Tetrahydropalmatine, L-thp...

Here's the link:

L-Tetrahydropalmatine, L-Thp 10 grams for 30...

L-Tetrahydropalmatine, L-Thp 2 grams for 15...

Are we allowed to post links to products?

I had never heard of it until I accidentally stumbled upon it last night... It is considered a sleep enhancer which mechanism I do not understand yet.

But being that its action is antagonist of Dopamine, seems it would be completely different than an Opioid antagonist?

I like sleep enhancers, I mean who doesn't?

For the most part I have quit alcohol because primarily it wrecks my sleep. The gaba rebound in my brain can keep me up for half the middle of the night.

I wish you had a defeat Gaba rebound trick theanine!

[Theanine]

I guess I will try it since I just ordered some L-Tetrahydropalmatine, L-thp

https://amzn.to/36hXFYf

Are we allowed to post links to products?

I had never heard of it until I accidentally stumbled upon it last night... It is considered a sleep enhancer which mechanism I do not understand yet.

But being that its action is antagonist of Dopamine, seems it would be completely different than an Opioid antagonist?

I like sleep enhancers, I mean who doesn't?

For the most part I have quit alcohol because primarily it wrecks my sleep. The gaba rebound in my brain can keep me up for half the middle of the night.

I wish you had a defeat Gaba rebound trick theanine!

Yes, the links to the products discussed are indeed 100% allowed.

Well, L-Tetrahydropalmatine's sleep inducing ability would be at least partly due to its dopamine blocking capacity. So, it does follow logic. However, anything reducing your active dopamine levels is tricky and tends to result in depressive symptoms overtime, which makes me wary of this substance pending further investigation. Remember, neurotransmitter dopamine is directly responsible for the feelings of pleasure and reward, reduction of it would inevitably lead to reduction of both.

I personally do not consume alcohol in any form, and I do advise anyone reading this to do the same. Ethanol is toxic to mammalian body and brain, why consume it at all?

Actually, believe it or not, Theanine is amazing for sleep! Overall, it may be my favorite supplement as it has NO side effects with any pattern of use. I sleep MUCH better with it. 200 mg before bed, and I'm out! If I wake up in the middle of the night and unable to regain my sleep, I take another capsule and pass out within minutes. It may also have some tolerance reducing capacity of its own, do give it a try.

Here is the brand that I use, a yearly supply of 365 capsules for $20: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS85G23/

The bulk powder is somewhat cheaper, but not by much, definitely not worth the savings in this case.

PS. I also consume copious amounts of Green tea (Camellia Sinensis) through out the day, which also has L-Theanine among many other chemical constituents. It enhances my Kratom and provides many other positive effects.

[BallzDeep9]

But being that its action is antagonist of Dopamine, seems it would be completely different than an Opioid antagonist?

L-Tetrahydropalmatine's sleep inducing ability would be at least partly due to its dopamine blocking capacity. So, it does follow logic. However, anything reducing your active dopamine levels is tricky and tends to result in depressive symptoms overtime, which makes me wary of this substance pending further investigation ...

Agreed - No thanks. I'd suggest stay FAR away from any dopamine blocker !! Most of us want the opposite. MORE dopamine.. We use kratom for euphoria, and to combat depression.. Dopamine agonist drugs are used for treating Parkinson's, Restless Leg Syndrome, (a side effect of kratom use), and ADHD... LINK - We need a NEW thread on dopamine.. Antagonists are anti psychotic drugs like Haldol, which makes you a living zombie

I've found a fantastic "new" sleep aid: Magnesium l-Threonate aka "Magtein" - this form of Mag, combined with l-Theanine before bedtime .. gives deep quality sleep. And the Magtein is a brain supplement: promotes cognitive ability, seems to improve memory and reverse brain aging... Unlike mag citrate, it doesn't force you to poop! It's a bit on the expensive side but, we know mag supplements are important for kratom.

[instantKARMA]

All I have to say about Palmitoylethanolamide (Life Extension ComfortMAX) is that after
the first three weeks of use along with a daily supplement of Magnesium Citrate and Agmatine
Sulfate, my tolerance build-up is almost nonexistent! Before beginning this regimen it seemed
like every six to eight weeks I had to do the tolerance reduction routine. I've now went at least
four months without noticing much in the way of tolerance build-up. wOwZer!

I just wanted to thank Theanine and the rest of the DoubleM members for all of the input provided
on this thread (and, of course, all of the other threads on this site!) Great stuff!

[Theanine]

All I have to say about Palmitoylethanolamide (Life Extension ComfortMAX) is that after
the first three weeks of use along with a daily supplement of Magnesium Citrate and Agmatine
Sulfate, my tolerance build-up is almost nonexistent! Before beginning this regimen it seemed
like every six to eight weeks I had to do the tolerance reduction routine. I've now went at least
four months without noticing much in the way of tolerance build-up. wOwZer!

I just wanted to thank Theanine and the rest of the DoubleM members for all of the input provided
on this thread (and, of course, all of the other threads on this site!) Great stuff!

Do you cycle those supplements?

That's a good regimen! Perhaps, it might be worth it to add a good Turmeric extract to it for further benefit.

Also, BallzDeep9's recommendation about the Magnesium L-Threonate (Magtein) is worth checking out as a superior Magnesium salt. It combines in itself the benefits of both Magnesium and L-Theanine, and both are quite useful for general health and tolerance reduction. Its absorption rates are also quite good. I have a big stash of the Magnesium Glycinate, but once I am out, I will definitely check out that supplement and perhaps begin using it instead of my current Magnesium salt.

[MikeEdoessomething]

I have been using Palmitoylethanolamide for several months now, and so have my parents. This has been an EXCELLENT addition to help manage pain. Here is how we take it:

My parents and myself take 1-3 capsules at a time depending on how bad the pain is, only 2 (maybe 3) times a week, and only one dose that day. Now, we've mostly been using it as an additional supplement for pain relief, and it works really well. For me, 1 pill works, but for my parents they get relief at 2-3 pills per dose.

Now I have found it helps increase the length of kratom effects, specifically pain relief, when I take it about 1-2 hours after I take my kratom dose (2 hour mark after dosing works best for me). It helps extend the pain relief at least another 2 hours for us.

So on its own Palmitoylethanolamide has been very helpful as another tool for pain relief. Often we use it without taking kratom (like before bed sometimes I'll take a dose of this), and even on its own without kratom it works much better for us then alive or over-counter pain meds/nsaids. It's been really helpful just by itself. The key I found has been to dose 1 time a day and only 2-3 times per week. It seems to work best the longer you wait before taking it again. I initially tried this as a tolerance reducer for my mother and to help with withdrawals between her doses at night time, but now we use it on bad pain days and it has been extremely helpful for additional support. I look at this as something like Cat's Claw, and we rotate this with cat's claw and tumeric.

I def highly recommend anyone try this to extend length of your kratom burns, take it around 2 hours after you dose, or even try it own its own for pain relief. Own it's own, 2 or 3 pills may be needed to feel good pain relief, but I believe that is within the dose range that some of the studies used (I may be wrong though).

Thanks for starting this thread on Palmitoylethanolamide. It is an excellent supplement in my opinion. I buy mine from Nootropics Depot.