Behind The Scenes Of The Kratom Industry

[Back2K]

Awesome information.
Lets say you lost all your access to supply, hypothetically, knowing what you know now, how would you go about choosing a vendor?
I started off getting my Kratom online years ago, but got tired of ordering in time before I ran out. Always had cursed smoke shop brands, but ended up finding one brand Remarkable Herbs, that sufficed in quality for the convenience trade off. Recently though, when a batch seemed totally inert, is when I just stayed up till 4am digging to find someone to trust. Tried to find someone in Louisiana, to support local, but no go. I realize you're rarely accepting new customers, but recommendations on finding a down to earth vendor as yourself. Or even references to people you know are accepting customers? Thanks!

Pretty sure they are taking orders until the 6th? Check out their ordering thread

[JustAnotherBird]

especially when all are vaccine sealed

I keep my kratom out in the open - just tear open the bag and pour it on the table and in my keyboard. Life of an anti-vaxxer

[GrannyJ62]

Just rereading this an it amazes me everytime how much information is on here.Thanks again Gumbyke1 for putting this out here for everyone and me.

[herbalhippie]

Bumping so new members will see this.

Plus, I need to catch up.

[MycatTimmy]

Bumping so new members will see this.

Plus, I need to catch up.

Thanks HH. I’ve been meaning to reread this myself. Fantastic information

[onespeedstop]

It took me until last week to realize that Gumbyke1 is TFH, which makes sense of course, it just didn't occur to me to make that connection ha-ha. I guess it makes me feel better buying from an expert, I mean it's definitely a bonus eh.

[Laika]

Thank you for the really thorough and candid information. This was really eye-opening for me.

Forgive me if someone has already asked this... I just read your posts on the first page and then the fourth page but didn't have the reading stamina to finish the entire topic.

Anyway, is anyone working on US grown kratom?--whether it's in a greenhouse or in a suitable climate (Florida?).

I understand this would be a risky investment with the current political climate and possibility that it could become scheduled. But it would definitely improve transparency and strain consistency and prevent vendors from receiving bunk batches. Plus, I'm sure there are many red-blooded Americans out there that would be willing to pay a premium for kratom branded "Grown in the USA."

[GrannyJ62]

just wanted to bump this up its so good

[f1vefour]

It took me until last week to realize that Gumbyke1 is TFH, which makes sense of course, it just didn't occur to me to make that connection ha-ha. I guess it makes me feel better buying from an expert, I mean it's definitely a bonus eh.

Makes it even harder if you know him as Simple.

[LeafersonJr32]

Damn dude I just went into the fucking rabbit hole! Thank you for the knowledge chris I Definitely will never forget this.

[laughinglionherbs]

Hi there. I just saw this post finally and I wish I had seen it earlier. I don’t know how to reach you but please do email me at [email protected].

I’ve been saying all of this for years too! There were a few tidbits I didn’t know for sure but I assumed and hour information has helped solidify them. I’m one of the few cGMP vendors of kratom and we do sell the various “strains “ but we have it all over our site that there isn’t a significant difference... they come from different suppliers and they come form different regions but we only import a few kinds.

The rest we mix in house to make a few changes to the overall experience but it’s very much clear to me that what uou said is accurate.

I’d love to chat sometime. While we aren’t huge, we are growing bigger every year and my goal is to help spread the truth and setup Fair Trade routes with Indo to ensure that the majority of the kratom coming in is processed properly, safely, and consistently! Not to mention the importance of a fair wage.

Anyway, please email when able and I’d love to sit down over email or phone and chat! Thanks for being bold and honest!

[Balidreamzzz]

Chris, just read this post. Awesome stuff! Thank you!

[GrannyJ62]

Just doing a refresh on the Behind the Scenes it still is othe best thing I ve Ever Seen about our Leaf .Amazing Thanks Again Chris for putting this together.

[TitanicAnt]

Captivating read! Thanks for the effort put into this!

[Playerpiano72]

Have you ever considered writing a book or something similar on this subject? I love reading as well as kratom, and it would definitely be something I'd buy. Or maybe some sort of monthly or quarterly magazine would be cool.

[shawdowr]

It took me quite awhile, but I read the entire post. I was engrossed the whole way through. By the time I looked up, an hour had passed. Man, I'm disgusted at what I had been putting into my body. And it's sobering to realize many kratom farmers are not actually farmers at all. Thank you for this post.

[Foxy Methoxy]

WOW this is a labor of love and I've never seen anything as evidence-based or in depth about kratom anywhere. OP could probably write a whole book honestly. Thanks for choosing to share it for free here on these forums. Hope this info is archived so it's never lost if something happens to these boards... it's that important.

The hygiene/sanitation stuff is terrifying. I'm a germophobe and would do anything to access kratom I KNEW was traced from "farm to table". But nobody knows what they're selling it seems. I was watching a documentary about the tobacco industry in Indonesia and they have little kids harvesting green (toxic) tobacco leaves. Of course they lay them out on the ground like that, don't use gloves to handle them, etc but nobody's EATING the end product either so it's not as gross. Hopefully no kids are involved in this industry.

I do have a question for anyone who may know. Am I right in understanding that the color of the finished powder is the determining factor in what "vein color" it actually performs as? Like I get a LOT of "red veins" that are actually green powder. Does that mean they're mislabeled, or can they still be red in terms of effects? I can't comprehend all the drying/alkaloid stuff and just need to know whether I need to be shopping based on the color of the powder or not. If I want a red-vein, should I pick a brownish powder every time to get typical 'red' effects? (i.e. - relaxing, warm, typical opiate-like painkiller, etc).

Thanks to Gumbyke and all who contribute to spreading REAL knowledge about this elusive plant. <3

[GrannyJ62]

Just gotta bump this up to the top cuz everyone who loves our leaf needs to read it,Thanks Chris and Angie you two are AWESOME

[BallzDeep9]

.... I just need to know whether I need to be shopping based on the color of the powder or not. - If I want a red-vein, should I pick a brownish powder every time to get typical 'red' effects? (i.e. - relaxing, warm, typical opiate-like painkiller, etc).

No. Go BY color... Those are not 'red' effects, they are Kratom effects. Green color powder has stronger effects. Usually, dark brown powder is weaker... You mention buying a nice 'red' kratom that is green in color? Well... Green is green! If you think a 'red' Name is better, just make sure the color is green!! Indoor dried Leaf, is carefully processed -VS- outdoor sun dried crap that gets oxidized and loses its potency. General Rule of thumb

[Playerpiano72]

I do have a question for anyone who may know. Am I right in understanding that the color of the finished powder is the determining factor in what "vein color" it actually performs as? Like I get a LOT of "red veins" that are actually green powder. Does that mean they're mislabeled, or can they still be red in terms of effects? I can't comprehend all the drying/alkaloid stuff and just need to know whether I need to be shopping based on the color of the powder or not. If I want a red-vein, should I pick a brownish powder every time to get typical 'red' effects? (i.e. - relaxing, warm, typical opiate-like painkiller, etc).

For me, reds that are more green in color (green reds) work better, but some people prefer the darker sort, even the very dark brown chocolate/bentuangie. It doesn't mean they're mislabeled, different strains have different effects for each person. If you're looking for a slow red, which it sounds like, your best bet is to try many different vendor's reds (as opposed to trying a bunch of different whites) - while it's not definite, odds are better you will find something you like. Usually vendors will label something a red if its effects are largely what most people think a red should be (pain relieving, relaxing, not stimulating, as close as opioid-like as kratom can get.) Unfortunately finding the right strain for you is hit or miss, but if you find one that one works for you, you can buy a larger amount. The individual batch that it came from may be sold out by that time, but the vendor (should) still gets it from the same distributor processed the same way, odds are more in your favor that it will work for you. If you can, communicate with the vendor.

I agree, it does get confusing, and anyone that tells you this or that is definite is probably misinformed or lying (in regards to the effects and how the different alkaloids work etc, not the actual farming, distribution, and the business in general - there are people like OP that have real experience with that) because there is so much unknown about how kratom works, and much of it is misinformation that gets repeated. Until we get some science behind kratom, a lot of it will remain conjecture. But the more experience you get the easier it gets. For what it's worth.

[GrannyJ62]

Just bump ing this up plus reading up on what I've missed.

[Matt30L]

This was the most informative thread on kratom I’ve read on MM yet. I never knew strains were all made up to increase profits.

[GrannyJ62]

Just wanted to say I LOVE TFH

[MagPie]

Wow...makes a lot of sense to me personally! Thanks for making this available to read!

[GrannyJ62]

Just wanted to bump this

[gumbyke1]

Bump for May 2021 update - Are any of those feremented?

[Luvndpeace]

Bump for May 2021 update - Are any of those feremented?

Wow! Thanks TFH for taking the time during this huge event to add to this amazing thread. I couldn't think of a better time for people to read through these, especially anyone in the community that have yet to read some of your amazing posts with your knowledge and experience.

This

This is exactly what draws me to your business. As if the amazing service and quality weren't enough. I went to school for sciences, and I could spend hours reading your informative posts! Have you ever thought of writing a book? Pretty sure so many of us would line up for it, though I think you have your hands full right now.

The amount of work, time, money, energy, stress, etc. that you have put into honing your craft is inspiring. For something that has helped so many of us in so many different ways, I truly respect and appreciate you immensely.

I don't mean to come across as a TFH "fan girl," but I am just offering my honest thoughts and feelings. For something that has so deeply changed my life, I owe an enormous amount of gratitude to you, and some of the wonderful vendors that strive towards setting high standards with the intent of helping others in mind.

There are business owners that do it for the money or various different reasons.

Then there are those amazing few that do it for the love of their craft and to help others. The latter is not always the easier road, and there might not be the fame, glory, or wealth some aspire to. Though, In my humble opinion, businesses that do it for their passion and mission to help others are the ones I love to support in any way I can.

Just wanted to share my gratitude and appreciation! Thanks for your hard work during this open event!

[Loveandpeace]

Well...this Loveandpeace IS a 'fan-boy'. Well written my spiritually named buddy. I had a long post in my head. There was high drama, low blows and medium enjoyment. In the end, I am apologizing for writing a public love letter and self deprecating the fuck out of my self to slink off to sleep with some dignity. But it was really, really clever and touching. So, thanks for saving me some face.

I am becoming protective of them (TFH) actually. You know, like when your favorite local band gets big and on the radio and everyone starts talking about how much better they were in the beginning? I know, fuckers...I was there. Anyway, much love through and through to them and the whole damn operation. Thank you to mm as well and Herbal Hippie.

[Luvndpeace]

Well...this Loveandpeace IS a 'fan-boy'. Well written my spiritually named buddy. I had a long post in my head. There was high drama, low blows and medium enjoyment. In the end, I am apologizing for writing a public love letter and self deprecating the fuck out of my self to slink off to sleep with some dignity. But it was really, really clever and touching. So, thanks for saving me some face.

I am becoming protective of them (TFH) actually. You know, like when your favorite local band gets big and on the radio and everyone starts talking about how much better they were in the beginning? I know, fuckers...I was there. Anyway, much love through and through to them and the whole damn operation. Thank you to mm as well and Herbal Hippie.

Loveandpeace the original and first, and yes probably better one -

You had me cracking up last night! I was deeply struggling to decide if I should I change that to "fan person" to be more gender non specific? I'm actually not cool and have never used the term other than FANBOYS acronym for prepositions, I know pretty sad.

This story of yours sounds great, highs, lows, some unexpected excitement. You have me really intrigued this this post, my peaceful friend. Sounds like a good story for a movie adaptation maybe?

Glad you were able to find them so early on, and I know great customers like you have been a large part of their process to where they are now.

[mikedjb]

Thank you so much for this, you answered every question I ever had.

[AMupas]

So another posting is long overdue. I was browsing the forum for inspiration on my next posting, and it jumped out to me clear as day. I have seen a lot of posts lately about people concerned that they were "ripped off" by indo vendors or had their packages seized by customs, so I thought I would do a quick write-up on what you can expect if you try to take a swing at importing. What I aim to do here is to simply shed light... I am in no way giving personal advice on whether you should/should not give importing a try.

This whole thread is incredibly eye opening. Wow that's a ton of work you've put into this passion project!!! Thank you for this!!

Mod note: I edited out the huge, long quote. When quoting someone for your post if the quote is quite long like this one was, please edit out most of it if you can. Leave the persons username and the pertinent part of the post like I did here.

[PeteSteel]

Bump for May 2021 update - Are any of those feremented?

Chris, I remember reading your information here when you first wrote it (as a guest) and it has helped me understand the process so much that I have applied it ever since. Thanks for writing it. I even read it again to refresh your points.
Thanks again from a few fellow Texan.

[GrannyJ62]

Bumpity bump bump

[GrannyJ62]

I'm looking for a menu for TFH

[Joshgreenhorn]

I'm looking for a menu for TFH

[Sanbutsushin]

Giving this thread a friendly bump as Chris (gumbyke, the OP) recently linked to it and I had fun going down the rabbit hole and rereading all this stuff again.

[BlatePapes]

I just came to say.. holy sh*t. There went half of my extremely busy morning. But such good information. The knowledge we can now pass on to our customers is priceless. Thank you for this. It's extremely useful.

[Silphium22]

I haven't read anywhere near this whole thread yet but it is great! Finally the real poop on the stuff. I supected a lot of it before too, like the silly strain names and obviously phoney reviews i saw on some kratom seller sites: how any organization had the wherewithall to certify certain vendors as legit, inspecting the whole process from beginning in southeast Asia to delivery? And the forums and websites all with their own separate lists of "approved vendors", and the owners post there.

Uh oh it's almost 3 am. I got so wrapped up in this...

[Arob1000]

This is really amazing information, pretty sure I’ll continue to support small batch vendors from now on…thanks for all the hard work putting this together, great to get an insiders perspective on the industry!

[Xiaobao]

This thread is very wealthy of knowledge, i can't thank enough for @gumbyke1 sharing this.

by reading this whole thread, i feel humbled and get rid my "daniel-kruger effect", since i am still naive and new to this industry.
So many thanks!

i do have many questions, as i still want to learn , and contribute to the industry as indo supplier.
from humble heart, i'd like to ask this question:

referring to your information, there are wholesale supplier (the second link in the kratom chain) and side hustler (salesman with a computer).
i do try to sell kratom powder as side hustler, and do have partner production as wholesale supplier; i said partner since it is more than just a business transaction between us, i know this wholesale supplier for quite a time before joining this business, having business with them outside kratom and i consider them as friend.

Part 1. So what should i do to have succesfull business as indo supplier?
my partner production have this profile:
- he has strong experience in field, not that marketing kind of guy, a guy in his 50s, has a lot experience in his head, but not structured enough to tell everyone.
- he claims he have "petani binaan / educated farmer" in some areas that produced >1.4% mitragynine consistenly after tested. (not only once tested, but several time the kratom powder from his mill factory is tested); although he is not data person, but he always believe his products have good quality.
- he buy the crushed leaf in bulk, bringing it to his factory, and mill it.

my profile:
- fast-learner marketing kind of guy, 30s, analytics and risk-taking.

our goal is same: want to make decent living from this business to support our family and employees. in honest and respectful way. we want to built it slow and steady from small quantity first (100-300kgs, 1 ton max) and increase it after we have more confident in the way doing it.

my question:
1. with all info on this thread, should i just market my product from Process-focused viewpoint (from how we harvest, how we dry, milling, and color after milling) supported with lab-result? instead of market it as strain name?
2. should we focus on US vendor (B2B) or direct user (B2C)? what we want is actually B2B since there'll be room for more people participating, if we try B2C it will have a lot of hassle from managing many customer; as someone ever said in this forum i read: "You can save a few dollars by buying directly from indo supplier, but having the risk of delivery"
3. how can i communicate better as B2B to US vendor? as you may experience, many indo supplier is pushing their products too often and too fast. We want to understand better the US vendor and how we can provide their needs to build mutual relationship.

4. can i ask @gumbyke1 personally to even learn more?
i wonder if @gumbyke1 and other mod here, could read this and say hi to me through whatsapp. not for selling my product, just have a talk to tell us 1-2 things so we can learn and have better position in this market.
my contacts can be found in the profile (my old website -> and in the bottom there you have all of it)

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you once again.

May all creatures be happy