Behind The Scenes Of The Kratom Industry

[Fhietra899]

This thread is very wealthy of knowledge, i can't thank enough for @gumbyke1 sharing this.

by reading this whole thread, i feel humbled and get rid my "daniel-kruger effect", since i am still naive and new to this industry.
So many thanks!

i do have many questions, as i still want to learn , and contribute to the industry as indo supplier.
from humble heart, i'd like to ask this question:

referring to your information, there are wholesale supplier (the second link in the kratom chain) and side hustler (salesman with a computer).
i do try to sell kratom powder as side hustler, and do have partner production as wholesale supplier; i said partner since it is more than just a business transaction between us, i know this wholesale supplier for quite a time before joining this business, having business with them outside kratom and i consider them as friend.

Part 1. So what should i do to have succesfull business as indo supplier?
my partner production have this profile:
- he has strong experience in field, not that marketing kind of guy, a guy in his 50s, has a lot experience in his head, but not structured enough to tell everyone.
- he claims he have "petani binaan / educated farmer" in some areas that produced >1.4% mitragynine consistenly after tested. (not only once tested, but several time the kratom powder from his mill factory is tested); although he is not data person, but he always believe his products have good quality.
- he buy the crushed leaf in bulk, bringing it to his factory, and mill it.


my question:
1. with all info on this thread, should i just market my product from Process-focused viewpoint (from how we harvest, how we dry, milling, and color after milling) supported with lab-result? instead of market it as strain name?
2. should we focus on US vendor (B2B) or direct user (B2C)? what we want is actually B2B since there'll be room for more people participating, if we try B2C it will have a lot of hassle from managing many customer; as someone ever said in this forum i read: "You can save a few dollars by buying directly from indo supplier, but having the risk of delivery"
3. how can i communicate better as B2B to US vendor? as you may experience, many indo supplier is pushing their products too often and too fast. We want to understand better the US vendor and how we can provide their needs to build mutual relationship.


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you once again.

May all creatures be happy

Kratom business has more complicated than several years ago.
Improving is one success key in this business. Not just improving in markering, you should improving in productions until shipment. And of course need some funds right now.

If your supplier has "educated farmers" he shouldnt "buy the crushed leafs in bulk".

And right now 1.4 mit categorized as LOW content. If you have seen 1.9 to 2.21 in several tons of powder you'll got shocked.

[Xiaobao]

Hi @Fhietra899

thanks for the feedback, i've been waiting for someone giving me feedback how to improve.

after learning from:
- this thread (Behind the scenes of the Kratom Industry) by @Gumbyke1
- viewtopic.php?t=7486 (How all Kratom Works: A Revised theory of one alkaloid) by @7ohm
- viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8824&p=87866&hilit= ... ier#p87866 (Direct from indo?) by @Badgame85
and several other thread that i forgot the link.

Here's some point:
1. Mit Content:
- It is very easy for someone to think that higher %mit and %7ohm is better, but i learn thats not all the case! Every strain looks like is just a different level of mit, it is user's body and dosage that affect the desired outcome. So even if i produce considered "low" (1.0-1.2%) mit, that doesnt mean its a bad product at all. There's also market for that.
- it is important to know %mit and %7ohm (from lab-result) of the product that we sell, to set the product-quality expectation for buyer and seller. -> this one we can do it.

2. Shipment, for me this one is tricky for indo supplier and i think it is the biggest risk compared to %mit content that we produce.
- Most of indo supplier will use DHL, UPS, and POS. And there are a lot of agent (they are not DHL, UPS, or POS directly, they are agent) that claim can do shipping of Kratom. Although we dont want to happen, but the case of "goods missing / delivery failed" is sometimes out of our control as producer. It could be happen from the our partner delivery that "steal" the goods and delivery payment. It also can happen from our custom (just like what @gumbyke1 write in this thread), it could happen from US custom also.
So, the key from our side is: having the right partner delivery (agent) that is also honest and trusted.

3. If your supplier has "educated farmers" he shouldnt "buy the crushed leafs in bulk".
- Could you please tell me the example for such buying order? what is the example process that you need? and expectation of %mit ?
This is for me to learn.
As this thread told, that "buy the crushed leafs in bulk" is happen naturally as majority by the industry itself. one of it is because of the economics reason.
So if there's such customized farm-to-table request, we want to know what price you are willing to pay, i will also be open to you about the production cost.
Please DM / private message me for this discussion.

Please do more feedback for me! i'd love to hear from many perspectives.

Cheers, and stay positive!

[Fhietra899]

Hi @Fhietra899

thanks for the feedback, i've been waiting for someone giving me feedback how to improve.

after learning from:
- this thread (Behind the scenes of the Kratom Industry) by @Gumbyke1
- viewtopic.php?t=7486 (How all Kratom Works: A Revised theory of one alkaloid) by @7ohm
- viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8824&p=87866&hilit= ... ier#p87866 (Direct from indo?) by @Badgame85
and several other thread that i forgot the link.

Here's some point:
1. Mit Content:
- It is very easy for someone to think that higher %mit and %7ohm is better, but i learn thats not all the case! Every strain looks like is just a different level of mit, it is user's body and dosage that affect the desired outcome. So even if i produce considered "low" (1.0-1.2%) mit, that doesnt mean its a bad product at all. There's also market for that.
- it is important to know %mit and %7ohm (from lab-result) of the product that we sell, to set the product-quality expectation for buyer and seller. -> this one we can do it.

2. Shipment, for me this one is tricky for indo supplier and i think it is the biggest risk compared to %mit content that we produce.
- Most of indo supplier will use DHL, UPS, and POS. And there are a lot of agent (they are not DHL, UPS, or POS directly, they are agent) that claim can do shipping of Kratom. Although we dont want to happen, but the case of "goods missing / delivery failed" is sometimes out of our control as producer. It could be happen from the our partner delivery that "steal" the goods and delivery payment. It also can happen from our custom (just like what @gumbyke1 write in this thread), it could happen from US custom also.
So, the key from our side is: having the right partner delivery (agent) that is also honest and trusted.

3. If your supplier has "educated farmers" he shouldnt "buy the crushed leafs in bulk".
- Could you please tell me the example for such buying order? what is the example process that you need? and expectation of %mit ?
This is for me to learn.
As this thread told, that "buy the crushed leafs in bulk" is happen naturally as majority by the industry itself. one of it is because of the economics reason.
So if there's such customized farm-to-table request, we want to know what price you are willing to pay, i will also be open to you about the production cost.
Please DM / private message me for this discussion.

Please do more feedback for me! i'd love to hear from many perspectives.

Cheers, and stay positive!

1. Better mit and better 7ohm yes it does mean its better product.. 60-70% alkaloid in kratom is "mitragynine" high mit means high alkaloid, its mean the process keep the alkaloid high and not contaminated from many factors can drop the "alkaloid" content. I'm consumers since 2017, took 14-17 grams a day. I know which stuff has good effects and which stuff doesnt have good effects. Woobles doesnt always mean its good stuff, many factors, many effects, but every i tested my stuff with high mit its always has really good effects..

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

And you should realize that i'm an exporter.

[Xiaobao]

Man, this forum is amazing to learn from such experienced people!

@Fhietra899, i thank you for the feedback once again.
such feedback is valuable. We always try to learn and become better than our past.

too bad some options like sea cargo is not available for us yet, since we start from small scale.
wish i can learn more from you.

[Detuned]

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

And you should realize that i'm an exporter.

What does PRE GMP Production exactly mean?
How are you influencing/impacting the Mit % as an exporter? With any drying techniques or what?

[Fhietra899]

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

And you should realize that i'm an exporter.

What does PRE GMP Production exactly mean?
How are you influencing/impacting the Mit % as an exporter? With any drying techniques or what?

Its facility thar following the GMP ways, but not certificates yet and not fully completed, bcause of its pilot project. Nowadays Mit content beeing one of important factor that prove the stuff has good quality or not.
Yes its with controlled drying techniques, warehouse temp, and controlled milling process

[Rhino236]

1. Better mit and better 7ohm yes it does mean its better product.. 60-70% alkaloid in kratom is "mitragynine" high mit means high alkaloid, its mean the process keep the alkaloid high and not contaminated from many factors can drop the "alkaloid" content. I'm consumers since 2017, took 14-17 grams a day. I know which stuff has good effects and which stuff doesnt have good effects. Woobles doesnt always mean its good stuff, many factors, many effects, but every i tested my stuff with high mit its always has really good effects..

^This

Wobbles does not equate to potency in any way shape or from. I believe wobbles come from young immature plantation leaf with high levels of Antagonist alkaloids. I cringe when I read some say “I had the wobbles so bad,this leaf is fire.” Wobbles has nothing to do with potency.

[brave777]

I cringe when I read some say “I had the wobbles so bad,this leaf is fire.” Wobbles has nothing to do with potency.

Lol i done that before, got to admit... After some time and trying different kinds, i learned it is true. I better have a damn darn clean experience then a nice come up and then BAM wobbles. Wobble Batches you have to know where the limit, most likely its below 2 grams. Anything over and asking for trouble. Those who use to go over 10 grams a day, will not enjoy any wobble batches. I assume they might have to lay down for few hours to get out of the mess. Lately i been seeking out batches that the more you take the more you feel, no wobbles or extra unwanted feeling, i know those batches exist. Same time i would still not discard wobble batches, its has it own place, just make sure to know at what gram per dose wobble starts and stay under. Unless there is more wobble and almost nothing positive, then trash it. I think Rhino has a good point, i started likeing well round mid specs, when its balanced, you can increase the mid spec and feel even better with no sneakiness. I am sure one day suppliers will figure out how to get to that stage, maybe vendors can help them.

[Fhietra899]

1. Better mit and better 7ohm yes it does mean its better product.. 60-70% alkaloid in kratom is "mitragynine" high mit means high alkaloid, its mean the process keep the alkaloid high and not contaminated from many factors can drop the "alkaloid" content. I'm consumers since 2017, took 14-17 grams a day. I know which stuff has good effects and which stuff doesnt have good effects. Woobles doesnt always mean its good stuff, many factors, many effects, but every i tested my stuff with high mit its always has really good effects..

^This

Wobbles does not equate to potency in any way shape or from. I believe wobbles come from young immature plantation leaf with high levels of Antagonist alkaloids. I cringe when I read some say “I had the wobbles so bad,this leaf is fire.” Wobbles has nothing to do with potency.

Yeah, that's why i said wobbles doesnt mean its good stuff.. i'v tried a stuff that's make really damn wobbles in 2019 its maybe like got drunk and i'm feeling not well with that wobbles effects, then i tested the stuff and its just have 1.3% mit.

[BallzDeep9]

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

The biggest change to kratom past 3 years, has been "Big Kratom" USA vendors, AKA connected - importing by 20+ Ton loads... known as Bulk or "Distro" kratom which goes to Wholesale distributors.. and also Drug Lab processors in Florida & Texas - Labs don't care much about fresh product ? Since they extract alkaloids and dumping the plant material, for Retail products like OPMS and Mit-45 etc.

Example: One "Big Kratom" company is NuWave Botanicals , maybe the best one ? Import 20+ tons per month, and the same Bulk load make a variety of Retail products: Remarkable Herbs, EXP Experience Kratom, and extract Shots sold in gas stations across the USA... Fhietra you know Mr. Zakaria, very good supplier, had a company NGB & did much business w/ small USA vendors & was a main supplier to KOG for example. Zack received a large contract from Chris @ NuWave and their associates at AKA - we can see videos on NuWave YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHywY ... Hz16Id1qxg

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads? Forgive me, not sure there is much Quality Control, for large container shipments ?? Again the Drug Lab processors don't care about Raw Leaf consumer powder... And the prices!! It's well known, that prices for farmers have dropped and --> As result of lower prices, Quality is also lower: Wild harvest mixing junk leaf, Javanica, Hirsuta, in lowers overall quality. Plantation grown young trees also, lower overall quality ??

Competition. In USA, we have OVER 200 vendors online, , I am counting those websites have invested $ in a Small Business ( # is higher if count Chat Room sales!) - there are now 40+ listed under AKA, the AKA "GMP Vendors" who paid AKA some money and, forming a "cartel" attempting to corner USA market - I see the SAME thing happening in Pontianak. A small group of Indo suppliers, get big contract $ money to build plant, equipments, from a NuWave Botanical or another "Big Kratom" AKA - that leaves out dozens of good supplier ?

So, What is to happen with non-AKA vendors, and non-AKA suppliers, getting forced out of market ?? Most all American vendors, online NOT retail... Sell kratom NFHC Legally, according to FDA Regulations kratom is "Not a Dietary Supplement" and most online vendors follow those FDA guidelines. The more fresh, Small Batch product comes POS, DHL, or Air Cargo - not sitting in Sea Container growing mold!

[HappyHugs]

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

The biggest change to kratom past 3 years, has been "Big Kratom" USA vendors, AKA connected - importing by 20+ Ton loads... known as Bulk or "Distro" kratom which goes to Wholesale distributors.. and also Drug Lab processors in Florida & Texas - Labs don't care much about fresh product ? Since they extract alkaloids and dumping the plant material, for Retail products like OPMS and Mit-45 etc.

Example: One "Big Kratom" company is NuWave Botanicals , maybe the best one ? Import 20+ tons per month, and the same Bulk load make a variety of Retail products: Remarkable Herbs, EXP Experience Kratom, and extract Shots sold in gas stations across the USA... Fhietra you know Mr. Zakaria, very good supplier, had a company NGB & did much business w/ small USA vendors & was a main supplier to KOG for example. Zack received a large contract from Chris @ NuWave and their associates at AKA - we can see videos on NuWave YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHywY ... Hz16Id1qxg

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads? Forgive me, not sure there is much Quality Control, for large container shipments ?? Again the Drug Lab processors don't care about Raw Leaf consumer powder... And the prices!! It's well known, that prices for farmers have dropped and --> As result of lower prices, Quality is also lower: Wild harvest mixing junk leaf, Javanica, Hirsuta, in lowers overall quality. Plantation grown young trees also, lower overall quality ??

Competition. In USA, we have OVER 200 vendors online, , I am counting those websites have invested $ in a Small Business ( # is higher if count Chat Room sales!) - there are now 40+ listed under AKA, the AKA "GMP Vendors" who paid AKA some money and, forming a "cartel" attempting to corner USA market - I see the SAME thing happening in Pontianak. A small group of Indo suppliers, get big contract $ money to build plant, equipments, from a NuWave Botanical or another "Big Kratom" AKA - that leaves out dozens of good supplier ?

So, What is to happen with non-AKA vendors, and non-AKA suppliers, getting forced out of market ?? Most all American vendors, online NOT retail... Sell kratom NFHC Legally, according to FDA Regulations kratom is "Not a Dietary Supplement" and most online vendors follow those FDA guidelines. The more fresh, Small Batch product comes POS, DHL, or Air Cargo - not sitting in Sea Container growing mold!

Hey my man!

I wanted to tell you that even though you disagree heavily with stuff I write on here (just replied to you in the other thread)--

--I value your knowledge and opinions a lot you're insightful and even though you've commented back/replied to some of my posts saying opposite stuff/etc., I actually read and reread those the most because it's not that I look for right and wrong, I look for new perspectives and I wanted to let you know that your perspective is always interesting and I'm grateful for you sharing all of your knowledge and putting the time that you do into this forum

Most people online argue or try to be right and it's always never made sense to me, since I learn the most when I hear something new and try it and judge based off of my experience

And experiences differ, and opinions, and that's ok

Except for you and me - we aren't afraid to share our opinions bluntly directly and straightup, and its nice to read your wealth of knowledge and then to read your replies or stuff you write that I disagree with because then I can think "What experience was there that made him think that way, as opposed to my experience making me think this way?"

I'm not too cool or too ego-driven to not learn from others, I always like to learn from others while also sharing my experience

So keep posting my man because I respect your solid experience-based real-life *lived* actionable experiences that you can share, something that you can't just makeup or regurgitate from mainstream media or something that you read online

Even with the haters, just keep going!

(we're not haters, we're passionate - disagreements = frame of references)

Wanted you to know all that and I appreciate this post a lot, I learned something

Talk soon,
Mike

[Fhietra899]

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

The biggest change to kratom past 3 years, has been "Big Kratom" USA vendors, AKA connected - importing by 20+ Ton loads... known as Bulk or "Distro" kratom which goes to Wholesale distributors.. and also Drug Lab processors in Florida & Texas - Labs don't care much about fresh product ? Since they extract alkaloids and dumping the plant material, for Retail products like OPMS and Mit-45 etc.

Example: One "Big Kratom" company is NuWave Botanicals , maybe the best one ? Import 20+ tons per month, and the same Bulk load make a variety of Retail products: Remarkable Herbs, EXP Experience Kratom, and extract Shots sold in gas stations across the USA... Fhietra you know Mr. Zakaria, very good supplier, had a company NGB & did much business w/ small USA vendors & was a main supplier to KOG for example. Zack received a large contract from Chris @ NuWave and their associates at AKA - we can see videos on NuWave YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHywY ... Hz16Id1qxg

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads? Forgive me, not sure there is much Quality Control, for large container shipments ?? Again the Drug Lab processors don't care about Raw Leaf consumer powder... And the prices!! It's well known, that prices for farmers have dropped and --> As result of lower prices, Quality is also lower: Wild harvest mixing junk leaf, Javanica, Hirsuta, in lowers overall quality. Plantation grown young trees also, lower overall quality ??

Competition. In USA, we have OVER 200 vendors online, , I am counting those websites have invested $ in a Small Business ( # is higher if count Chat Room sales!) - there are now 40+ listed under AKA, the AKA "GMP Vendors" who paid AKA some money and, forming a "cartel" attempting to corner USA market - I see the SAME thing happening in Pontianak. A small group of Indo suppliers, get big contract $ money to build plant, equipments, from a NuWave Botanical or another "Big Kratom" AKA - that leaves out dozens of good supplier ?

So, What is to happen with non-AKA vendors, and non-AKA suppliers, getting forced out of market ?? Most all American vendors, online NOT retail... Sell kratom NFHC Legally, according to FDA Regulations kratom is "Not a Dietary Supplement" and most online vendors follow those FDA guidelines. The more fresh, Small Batch product comes POS, DHL, or Air Cargo - not sitting in Sea Container growing mold!

Ballz,... Missed to talk.
Yeah i know zakaria, and he cooperate with chris lately for several years.
If you ask me about this "How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads?"
How if i said : How can this drying leafs process just sold with 3-4$/kg and + shipment its just 7$ - 8$/kg ?? Is that MAKE SENSE??
With that machine you need 10-12$ cost for productions per kg maybe more. You know how big electricity needed for that food drying machine? Its took 10.44 Killo watt. And you know the prices for this electricity for such big.

If you came here i will show you what REAL happened.
Which is Real and Which just Fake..

[Fhietra899]

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

The biggest change to kratom past 3 years, has been "Big Kratom" USA vendors, AKA connected - importing by 20+ Ton loads... known as Bulk or "Distro" kratom which goes to Wholesale distributors.. and also Drug Lab processors in Florida & Texas - Labs don't care much about fresh product ? Since they extract alkaloids and dumping the plant material, for Retail products like OPMS and Mit-45 etc.

Example: One "Big Kratom" company is NuWave Botanicals , maybe the best one ? Import 20+ tons per month, and the same Bulk load make a variety of Retail products: Remarkable Herbs, EXP Experience Kratom, and extract Shots sold in gas stations across the USA... Fhietra you know Mr. Zakaria, very good supplier, had a company NGB & did much business w/ small USA vendors & was a main supplier to KOG for example. Zack received a large contract from Chris @ NuWave and their associates at AKA - we can see videos on NuWave YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHywY ... Hz16Id1qxg

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads? Forgive me, not sure there is much Quality Control, for large container shipments ?? Again the Drug Lab processors don't care about Raw Leaf consumer powder... And the prices!! It's well known, that prices for farmers have dropped and --> As result of lower prices, Quality is also lower: Wild harvest mixing junk leaf, Javanica, Hirsuta, in lowers overall quality. Plantation grown young trees also, lower overall quality ??

Competition. In USA, we have OVER 200 vendors online, , I am counting those websites have invested $ in a Small Business ( # is higher if count Chat Room sales!) - there are now 40+ listed under AKA, the AKA "GMP Vendors" who paid AKA some money and, forming a "cartel" attempting to corner USA market - I see the SAME thing happening in Pontianak. A small group of Indo suppliers, get big contract $ money to build plant, equipments, from a NuWave Botanical or another "Big Kratom" AKA - that leaves out dozens of good supplier ?

So, What is to happen with non-AKA vendors, and non-AKA suppliers, getting forced out of market ?? Most all American vendors, online NOT retail... Sell kratom NFHC Legally, according to FDA Regulations kratom is "Not a Dietary Supplement" and most online vendors follow those FDA guidelines. The more fresh, Small Batch product comes POS, DHL, or Air Cargo - not sitting in Sea Container growing mold!

Even i can show you the machine.
https://www.bxdryer.com/products/microw ... ation.html
You can see the specifications at "Technical Parameters" and see output power and Dehydration rate per hour".

[Tlingel]

Wow . . . My heads spinning from all the information and I feel a little nauseous from the kratom I just took after reading what I might have ingested. I’d rather know and do better than be oblivious, so thank you for keeping us informed! I used to be a customer of kratom crazy for a couple years and was happy with most of their stuff but then they shut down and ever since I’ve been searching for a good vendor. I’ve gone through so many bad places and wasted so much money but then I stumbled upon Kratom og and now this forum which led me to Denette615. I’m really excited to get to know more and find some good, reliable places.

Since I’m new to this forum I had a couple question I was hoping someone could help me out with?

1. I’m a little confused. I know the colors are misleading but in order to differentiate between high energy strains and ones that make you feel more euphoric what verbiage should I use?

2. I got lucky and when I stumbled upon this board Denette615 was having an open sale. I went to order again and found out I have to be a member. When vendors have open member slots they post accepting new customers. What does being a “member” entail, do you get to order whenever you want?

[Lokey]

Yes, thats all it entails as far as I know

[Jfish030]

2. Most of big suppliers doesnt use DHL, UPS, and POS right now. Mostly we use Sea Cargo or with 20-40 feet containers. Even its take more times to deliver, its took less prices and we can make our stuff still good right now with several ways of packaging and Gamma rays sometimes. Several of shipment company gives guarantee and wants get paid half for several trusted suppliers that has start kratom business for several years.

The biggest change to kratom past 3 years, has been "Big Kratom" USA vendors, AKA connected - importing by 20+ Ton loads... known as Bulk or "Distro" kratom which goes to Wholesale distributors.. and also Drug Lab processors in Florida & Texas - Labs don't care much about fresh product ? Since they extract alkaloids and dumping the plant material, for Retail products like OPMS and Mit-45 etc.

Example: One "Big Kratom" company is NuWave Botanicals , maybe the best one ? Import 20+ tons per month, and the same Bulk load make a variety of Retail products: Remarkable Herbs, EXP Experience Kratom, and extract Shots sold in gas stations across the USA... Fhietra you know Mr. Zakaria, very good supplier, had a company NGB & did much business w/ small USA vendors & was a main supplier to KOG for example. Zack received a large contract from Chris @ NuWave and their associates at AKA - we can see videos on NuWave YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHywY ... Hz16Id1qxg

3. I'v start Pre-GMP productions right now with 2.21% of Mitragynine content, good effects, no woobles, no headache, with good euphoric and energetic effects . We dont buy "crushed leaves" from farmers.. We buy fresh leafs, wash it, drying it with different ways and put it in decent place with several procedure for warehousing with controlled temperature, air circulation, materials for milling, and some procedure for good manufacturing a products.

How can such high quality, high Mitra % be sustained across 20 ton loads? Forgive me, not sure there is much Quality Control, for large container shipments ?? Again the Drug Lab processors don't care about Raw Leaf consumer powder... And the prices!! It's well known, that prices for farmers have dropped and --> As result of lower prices, Quality is also lower: Wild harvest mixing junk leaf, Javanica, Hirsuta, in lowers overall quality. Plantation grown young trees also, lower overall quality ??

Competition. In USA, we have OVER 200 vendors online, , I am counting those websites have invested $ in a Small Business ( # is higher if count Chat Room sales!) - there are now 40+ listed under AKA, the AKA "GMP Vendors" who paid AKA some money and, forming a "cartel" attempting to corner USA market - I see the SAME thing happening in Pontianak. A small group of Indo suppliers, get big contract $ money to build plant, equipments, from a NuWave Botanical or another "Big Kratom" AKA - that leaves out dozens of good supplier ?

So, What is to happen with non-AKA vendors, and non-AKA suppliers, getting forced out of market ?? Most all American vendors, online NOT retail... Sell kratom NFHC Legally, according to FDA Regulations kratom is "Not a Dietary Supplement" and most online vendors follow those FDA guidelines. The more fresh, Small Batch product comes POS, DHL, or Air Cargo - not sitting in Sea Container growing mold!

Hes not lying, I agree with him. Very little kratom comes dhl,pos, ups, and air cargo is not easy or even cheaper since china/hong kong ban. DHL, UPS, Fedex, POS they shut down the agent shipping kratom very quickly. Its very easy for them to detect a spike in shipments as typically these services are for smaller lighter packages, so their volume by weight jumps ALOT when an agent starts shipping with these services. Kratom is a heavy product that typically would never be shipped with these services. A normal business shipping any product with these weights would use sea cargo or rarely air cargo for emergencies as most business care about cost of goods. Air cargo is very hard now since it has to avoid china leading to way less flights that can lead to the product getting into the usa. China has alot of flights to USA via cargo and passenger planes which both hold cargo (shipments). Its wack a mole out here right now, its not easy unless your using sea cargo or buying domestic.

Also really its us who are destroying these shipping options for ourselves. Just imagine a company that's really not setup for huge heavy boxes getting a ton of heavy boxes, the workers complain. That gets it shutdown. Shipment by sea is actually the correct and right way to ship. Air cargo would be the 2nd option as that too is only moved by forklifts.

Basically hes not lying you cant really ship kratom anymore, but with sea cargo. He might also might be onto something as now a lot of these plantations are aging up the trees and are getting bigger and older. It was known this would happen that there would be a slump and then a jump, because they were harvesting young trees in mass and now with every year these trees get better. I do know some farmers personally who are trying to pick and choose which trees they grow, overall it will slowly get better and better regardless of order size, generally speaking that is.

Also if you take 1 sample out of 20 tons of green and its 2.0% does that really mean its all 2.0%

Fhietra899 Glad to see you taking charge of the product and safety. Its been a couple years now since i last talked to you, hope all is well.

[IjustFeltLikeRunnin’]

Since I’m new to this forum I had a couple question I was hoping someone could help me out with?

1. I’m a little confused. I know the colors are misleading but in order to differentiate between high energy strains and ones that make you feel more euphoric what verbiage should I use?

2. I got lucky and when I stumbled upon this board Denette615 was having an open sale. I went to order again and found out I have to be a member. When vendors have open member slots they post accepting new customers. What does being a “member” entail, do you get to order whenever you want?

Hi. Welcome.

It definitely is a rough pill to swallow the first time you read this information. It’s like the curtain being pulled away in the Wizard of Oz. But it eventually becomes normal, common knowledge once you’re able to digest it.

In answer to your first question, you’ll see a lot of batches (regardless of color) being described as “fast”,”upper-spec”, “mid-spec”, “slow”, “low-spec”, “warm”, “euphoric”, etc. But keep in mind it’s all dose-dependent and ‘personal body chemistry’ dependent as well.

When you become a member of private vendors, “yes” you are able to order whenever you want. You’ll also be kept in the loop regarding new batch drops and sales, typically via email.


Lots of great and eye-opening knowledge included in this forum. Mainly because there are a few vendors, who know all the ins and outs, that post here.

[Tlingel]

Since I’m new to this forum I had a couple question I was hoping someone could help me out with?

1. I’m a little confused. I know the colors are misleading but in order to differentiate between high energy strains and ones that make you feel more euphoric what verbiage should I use?

2. I got lucky and when I stumbled upon this board Denette615 was having an open sale. I went to order again and found out I have to be a member. When vendors have open member slots they post accepting new customers. What does being a “member” entail, do you get to order whenever you want?

Hi. Welcome.

It definitely is a rough pill to swallow the first time you read this information. It’s like the curtain being pulled away in the Wizard of Oz. But it eventually becomes normal, common knowledge once you’re able to digest it.

In answer to your first question, you’ll see a lot of batches (regardless of color) being described as “fast”,”upper-spec”, “mid-spec”, “slow”, “low-spec”, “warm”, “euphoric”, etc. But keep in mind it’s all dose-dependent and ‘personal body chemistry’ dependent as well.

When you become a member of private vendors, “yes” you are able to order whenever you want. You’ll also be kept in the loop regarding new batch drops and sales, typically via email.


Lots of great and eye-opening knowledge included in this forum. Mainly because there are a few vendors, who know all the ins and outs, that post here.

There was a kratom we tried awhile back and it tasted like an ashtray, FUCK, now I know why! (Can I swear on here? Just trying to play by the rules, don’t want to offend anyone).

Ok so the colors are the drying methods, correct? Do certain colors/drying methods correlate with batches being “fast”,”upper-spec”, “mid-spec”, “slow”, “low-spec”, “warm”, “euphoric”? I was assuming that greens & whites were faster and reds were more euphoric but I understand not everything is that simple and we’re talking about nature here so it doesn’t produce the exact results every time. To simplify it, I just want to know what to take in the AM versus PM. In my experience the whites & greens gave me energy and the reds made me mellow, is that the general rule of thumb?

I’m a newbie here and I’m trying to learn and understand it all. If I sound like a dumbass (can I swear?) I’m sorry, but be kind to me I’ve just been taking kratom with cigarettes, bugs and dirt in it and ground up by people’s dirty feet.

[BallzDeep9]

Do certain colors/drying methods correlate with batches being “fast”,”upper-spec”, “mid-spec”, “slow”, “low-spec”, “warm”, “euphoric” ? I was assuming that greens & whites were faster and reds were more euphoric but I understand not everything is that simple ...

I’m a newbie here and I’m trying to learn and understand it all. If I sound like a dumbass (can I swear?) I’m sorry, but be kind to me I’ve just been taking kratom with cigarettes, bugs and dirt in it and ground up by people’s dirty feet.

Welcome to MM - Nobody's a dumbass here, we're all just Truth Seekers lol

Pretty much, "Everything you know about Kratom is Wrong", and it's all BS developed for Marketing purpose, to Sell you more Kratom! - For example. I gotta agree with JustFeltLikeRunnin, who wrote - Keep in mind it’s all dose-dependent and ‘personal body chemistry’ dependent as well.

That should be printed on every Bag maybe ?? Kratom is kratom. There's stronger and weaker batches, sure - But, they (the Scientists) have looked at Red and Green batches and found... NO real difference in "alkaloid profile". Others, mostly vendors who Lab Test, have admitted, uhh, the Red stuff is just weaker 'cuz it's oxidized and fermented. At least that's what the Labs show.

Otherwise, on the bugs and dirt - I have been hollering from the rooftops, for years, "Prep your Powder". Which means, #1 pour boiled water over your Raw Powder. Then add some Lemon juice. Then freeze the shit overnight. Prep 1-2-3 ... called Red Bubble Tek... Finally we're starting to see web pages about this. LINK

But, how many people DO "sanitize" their powder? VS- take Caps like some weird drug? And how many people consume Moderate servings -VS- Huge doses ?? Very few. The majority are abusing the hell out of kratom, choking down Big amounts, getting bad side effects, like withdrawals, then... Blame all their problems on Kratom? We're starting to see that. More and More.

[onespeedstop]

Otherwise, on the bugs and dirt - I have been hollering from the rooftops, for years, "Prep your Powder".

Maybe I'm just a spoiled american consumer person, but I don't feel like it should be up to me to sanitize my product. Then again, I do wash off my lettuce/spinache/potatoes/etc., mostly because I can literally see the dirt on it ha-ha. Cleaned/lead tested kratom should be the norm, and for 90% of it probably is, meanwhile maybe I should get in the habit of boiling it first, just seems like an unnecessary hassle since I haven't ever been 'poisoned' by it in 4+ years of use now.

[Tlingel]

Otherwise, on the bugs and dirt - I have been hollering from the rooftops, for years, "Prep your Powder".

Maybe I'm just a spoiled american consumer person, but I don't feel like it should be up to me to sanitize my product. Then again, I do wash off my lettuce/spinache/potatoes/etc., mostly because I can literally see the dirt on it ha-ha. Cleaned/lead tested kratom should be the norm, and for 90% of it probably is, meanwhile maybe I should get in the habit of boiling it first, just seems like an unnecessary hassle since I haven't ever been 'poisoned' by it in 4+ years of use now.

Hear, hear, 100% agree! Maybe we’re getting slowly poisoned Ok I’m off to boil some Kratom

[gumbyke1]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

[SeventhHeaven]

Looking forward to it, Chris - thanks again for the continued great information!

[bluebop]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

So, for a tension-breaking preview, is this good news or bad news?

[IndelibleDotInk]

it's like announcing a sequel to Seinfeld....

[BallzDeep9]

Maybe I'm just a spoiled American Consumer person, but I don't feel like it should be up to me to sanitize my product. Then again, I do wash off my lettuce ...

A Reply to this (I do wash my Lettuce! and never eat the outside leaves! ) but First! Yaaay to another Gumby update!

Should there be a NEW thread, maybe "Future of the Kratom Industry 2022" ? I'll leave that upto him... There much interest / observations of what's happening in 2022. So Far anyway. To start the Year, we're coming off a BIG victory, the World Health Org. WHO decision was huge. And there's other possible changes brewing, both good & some Not:

OK. After typing up a "List of Things", all that I really know about is what's happening in USA - This thread is about Indo - the Import Export issues and "Behind the Scenes" over there, IS our subject right here. And I don't wanna hijack Gumby's excellent thread here so... The FDA, Legal questions, AKA, NDI, GMP, the WHO, all important to discuss and deserve a separate thread. Big thanks to JFish for his comments. We've got a tremendous Group here on MM!

[Tlingel]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

Gumby, do tell its hard being patient! I think we’d all want photos, thanks so much for keeping us updated. I’m so glad I found this forum

[Detuned]

Cannot really wait for it.

A Teaser please.....

[starshine]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

I literally live for your insight/posts. can't wait to see!

[Humble9300]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

I literally live for your insight/posts. can't wait to see!

Yes. Agreed let's get an update sometime.

[NewUser88]

I'll be weighing in here shortly with another update. Since first writing this post, there has been a lot of changes with a select few producers....however, a lot of it is still the same old, same old. If anyone is interested in some photos updates, I can make a new post to give you a preview of whats to come (along with what the "norm" looks like right now).

I can tell you first hand, that there are things in the work in Indonesia that will change the entire industry.... stay tuned!

Yes, please! In the meantime, is there still an active discord server/mewe?

[Trippyhippydippy]

Is there another thread on this update? Absolutely amazing information! Very insightful and informative on all fronts.

[Detuned]

Any Updates? Really looking forward...

[Xiaobao]

Any Updates? Really looking forward...

Hi,

been a while again after last post.
Things been pretty busy.

a bit of update from me:
1. "Non-spec" Kratom Flooding US Market
News that some/many indo-supplier, especially small one like me is : for last 6 months, there are low quality K powder flooding the US market (>1,000 Tons i believe, and keep going till now).
Low Quality or we called it "Non-spec" Kratom, is un-checked %mitragynine content (could be 1.0-1.1% mitragynine or lower), un-checked for bacterial content, could be mixed with the stem leaf, young tree/leaf and improper drying. Basically, Kratom from all of the small farmers on the street is collected by traders and they export it for really cheap. Rumors have it $4.5-5/kg stateside.

It is concerning for other producers that maintain their process for quality, since affecting the overall Kratom Price.

2. Retail shipment challenge.
For the past 2-3 months, shipment for retail quantity (1-50kg) is problematic. Many packages is held by the US customs (some of mine also ). Mostly happen in POS shipping, while DHL closed temporarily at that time due to many cases of failed delivery.

But now DHL is open their service again since June, with increase shipping price. Now we can say it is normal again for small shipment.

3. More and more indo-supplier/businessman open trading company and warehouse in the US, including extracts.
They have capital, so they open their own warehouse at the US, and start trading in US. usually they have MOQ apply (1 ton). Quality they bring mostly are in the range 1.2 - 1.6% mitragynine.
And some of them also bring extracts produced in Indonesia to be sold in US. Extracts actually outlaw in here, so they willing to face the risk.

If other indo-supplier here know more, please correct me if i'm wrong.

[Xiaobao]

Maybe US vendors here also can update the situation of K industry in the US? so indo-supplier like can learn what's going on in the industry from US perspective:

Some of the quotes with some customers there:

"... We have been in this business for well over 15 years. The kratom business has changed a lot since we started. Nowadays other vendors are vicious and destructive and use any information to destroy others. ..."

"...I have noticed that some Laboratory Certificates are deceiving where the Laboratory is displaying Mitragynine level with the Paynantheine level added..."

"...Now business is done by ripping someone off and then not doing business with them again. I do not think that we will be able to do business with anyone new to us from now on.

I know that you personally did not rip us off. This just seems to be how things are done now. We have been ripped off enough trying to establish new relationships..."


i think industry situation in the US also changing,, i hope for better not for worse,,
start to think adding Moringa powder into my portfolio if K business is going to worse condition

[rounder]

Wow... thanks so much for all the time you spent on this!

[Kelleytoons]

I would hope that the quality leaf vendors, the ones who are NOT buying the low-spec stuff, will understand that those of us who care WILL pay more for quality. I can't see ANYONE saying that price is the major factor in buying their Kratom. Surely newbees coming to the leaf may make that mistake (I did) but those who do learn quickly that you get what you pay for.

Indeed, I see low mit Kratom coming in will BENEFIT the good vendors who will refuse to use it. Quality will out.

[Rambo]

I have been a lurker to this forum for a few weeks, back to the Kratom world after a ~10 year hiatus, and just wanted to say THANK YOU for posting this well-informed, genuine, and quite eye opening thread!
So much seems to have changed since the days of the Kratom Connoisseur forums, the landscape is totally different and I am grateful to see through the lens of an insider in this industry. I’ll be sticking to the wonderful vendors on this forum for sure, supporting those who are working to make this business safe, clean and the best it can be for customers, growers and vendors alike!
Thanks again for posting all this, you rock

[uspatriot995]

Yeah, that's why i said wobbles doesnt mean its good stuff.. i'v tried a stuff that's make really damn wobbles in 2019 its maybe like got drunk and i'm feeling not well with that wobbles effects, then i tested the stuff and its just have 1.3% mit.

Yeah, to me the wobbles are awful. I used to think that meant it was high potency--which it may have been. But it was an awful feeling and ruined the experience for me. A nice long clean burn does it. This can sometimes best be achieved by a good known regular strength and then adding reputable extract. Again it's playing with fire because so many variables. Managing those variables in extremely important for a good consistent experience.

And that is on the consumer! How often does a vendor or a "strain" get shit on because someone's tolerance in sky high or they've been getting "fire strains" from somewhere else as the OP mentioned. The degree of subjectivity, individual chemistry, method of ingestion, and all the other variables make it extremely difficult to render any assertions about a particular batch.

I've known people who've tried kratom and hated it. Same with other herbs.

It would be different, perhaps if we all lived on a ranch together and there were about 100 of us that could dose the exact same, adjusted for body weight and tolerance, and record the results. That's the scientific way!

I think that the OP's ultra-rigorous research and business savvy model for the product, combined with his periodic testing offer is the key to a good consistent experience (as consistent as is possible).

[Kelleytoons]

It would be different, perhaps if we all lived on a ranch together and there were about 100 of us that could dose the exact same, adjusted for body weight and tolerance, and record the results. That's the scientific way!

You are correct but my gut tells me that even then we'd get about 100 different opinions. The chemistry is very odd - I can take the exact same strain, at the exact same dose and same time but different day and... completely different.

I think the best we can ever get is some sort of general consensus as to whether the strain itself is decent, but as you point out, at least the OP guys are giving it their best shot and I do believe in them (now that I've gotten a chance to sample their wares - I am so "in the zone" right now on one of their test samples I can't believe it).