The Future Of Kratom

[Loveandpeace]

I would like to hear some peoples thoughts on what lies next for this wondrous plant. Ultimately, an idealized version of the future and a realistic version within the next 10 years.

I believe the market will become too strong to ignore in America. "Big (fill in the blank)" will monetize, sanitize and tax an industry they create. However, I think the D615 and small batch peeps will be fine but probably operate outside the box which they are already perfecting, it seems.

Ideally, to be honest, right now isn't that bad for the consumer. Admittedly, I am a year in, lacking in experience AND knowledge. Deadly combo there. I think the pricing is amazing, our vendors are fucking heroes in my world and the community is very bright and affable. I do not see many similarities to the Pro marijuana movement of the past 50 years. However, even that motley crew of haggard fucks got the job done and legalized it.

end with obvious cliche...

Ahem, as they say, time will tell.

[RumRunner]

Now that any federal domestic ban is unrealistic, what happens in Indonesia in the near future will play the biggest role for the future of kratom. More than likely Indonesia will figure out the revenue stream that is possible, and will levy a tax.

[CatfatherB]

The future of kratom in the long term would be beneficial to see it being processed on American soil, wonder if the price tags on tarps would go up?

[BallzDeep9]

I believe the market will become too strong to ignore in America. "Big (fill in the blank)" ...

Great topic for Super Bowl Sunday! Thanks for starting, LoveandPeace Yes I agree. Big Kratom is here! and following right behind Big Cannabis that is taking over that market, state by state.

What's the Future of Kratom? Positive, imho... think Kratom drinks in bars! Maybe in Starbucks, sure, why not? Think Big. A few different likely scenario, depending on the Legal status. Important to understand that kratom IS still... "grey market" in USA... banned in some countries, UK, Australia, etc.

IF the American Herbal Products Assn: AHPA motion is successful, then Kratom (and other herbs), would be rolled into the 1994 DSHEA under USA Federal Law. That's very possible? It would mean Kratom goes mainstream. On the shelf in Walmart, sold on Amazon... most of our current 200+ grey market vendors would disappear.

What's the Future of MM ? I guess we'll find out, in just a few hours... stay tuned!

[BallzDeep9]

what happens in Indonesia in the near future will play the biggest role for the future of kratom.

Word on the street, is follow the money... Thailand just voted basically to legalize kratom as Controlled Substance. Indo is well aware of this!! https://thethaiger.com/news/national/ho ... otics-list

[brave777]

what happens in Indonesia in the near future will play the biggest role for the future of kratom.

Word on the street, is follow the money... Thailand just voted basically to legalize kratom as Controlled Substance. Indo is well aware of this!! https://thethaiger.com/news/national/ho ... otics-list

Best news ever, can't wait to see Thailand kratom in USA. Sadly they burned most of it? If its un-banned does that include everyone can grow tree's in backyard? Just like on Vise, the guy who sneaked into the mountain to have best potent leaf from a tree. I hope everyone clones that tree in Thailand, what a strain that will be.

[CatfatherB]

[quote=brave777

Best news ever, can't wait to see Thailand kratom in USA. Sadly they burned most of it? If its un-banned does that include everyone can grow tree's in backyard? Just like on Vise, the guy who sneaked into the mountain to have best potent leaf from a tree. I hope everyone clones that tree in Thailand, what a strain that will be.
[/quote]

If they're anything like the Indos they'll call it red Bali

[GrannyJ62]

I'm grabbing a few of Craig Strickland tea trees Ive been lurking in his fb group for a bit he has rifat and Bumblebee anyways I m thinking I need my own Kratom trees.I m already pretty good at cloning mj and have a indoor garden..

[onespeedstop]

Hopefully it just stays "underground" like it has been so far. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've gotten very little crap kratom in the couple of years I've been taking it. And I cannot point, even once, to being so much as mildly poisoned by it. For comparison, I've had more bad reactions to taco bell, or a pizza buffet for lunch, many times (at least once or twice a year back when I was eating that garbage every day ha-ha) and cannot specifically blame kratom for so much as vomiting once, in several years. While regulation sounds fine on paper, all it means is higher prices and fewer choices for the consumer.

This forum has done more for kratom than any govt. ever will. Word gets around here, we report the good, the bad, and the rip off prices, all because we are at ground level and know as much or more about it than they do. Not that anyone seems to know a ton about kratom ha-ha.

[Loveandpeace]

Hopefully it just stays "underground" like it has been so far. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've gotten very little crap kratom in the couple of years I've been taking it. And I cannot point, even once, to being so much as mildly poisoned by it. For comparison, I've had more bad reactions to taco bell, or a pizza buffet for lunch, many times (at least once or twice a year back when I was eating that garbage every day ha-ha) and cannot specifically blame kratom for so much as vomiting once, in several years. While regulation sounds fine on paper, all it means is higher prices and fewer choices for the consumer.

This forum has done more for kratom than any govt. ever will. Word gets around here, we report the good, the bad, and the rip off prices, all because we are at ground level and know as much or more about it than they do. Not that anyone seems to know a ton about kratom ha-ha.

Totally agreed. This forum is (present tense) a part of my ritual and kind of my bible right now.

Regulation doesn't necessarily mean higher prices and such... (see pot growth business model) However, it will fuck it up. Guaranteed!! I love our quaint community. I recently started exploring the FB groups, some quality inquiries but a lot of nonsense and meandering. Meandering?! Like this right here.

Keep it underground!

[Jfish030]

I think it will go mainstream at some point possibly in the next 5-7 years. The moment Visa/MasterCard allow purchase its over for any small/medium online vendors because big industries will come in and lobby for all kinds of additional regulations and enforce them, something that isn't happening yet. I think the biggest few companies will get buy offers from major companies to acquire customers and possibly suppliers. Think about the herbal supplement section in every grocery store, pharmacy kind of deal that's where i see this going eventually. The few biggest companies that take over the product will produce a good product for their customers, either with extracts added in or a super control overseas process that will produce uniform great product. The price will also continue to go down, as it already is currently, but at a much steeper dive down again cutting out many vendors.

Indonesia will not ban the product if USA is not. They will follow USA's lead. The product is such a large export and provides so much money to their country. Its already becoming more organized overseas. Many suppliers teaming up and building up their infrastructure, warehouses, drying facilities, plantations. This will ramp up even more as big money gets involved and sponsors/purchases more equipment and infrastructure for them. A little regulation added overseas will cut out the small farmers. I personally agree that some regulations are needed over there as its the wild wild west. Something to enforce suppliers to have checks taken for soil quality looking mainly for lead, which I try to preach as much as possible is a problem with most commercial grade kratom. Check out mitragaia's labs on his website. Most are well over the limit for lead some double the limit, and they have already had a fda noticed posted on their products previously for lead. Some regulation also on age of tree harvest would also go over great, it would help produce better quality product for us.

That's my opinion on it.

[B Dub B]

I think it will go mainstream at some point possibly in the next 5-7 years. The moment Visa/MasterCard allow purchase its over for any small/medium online vendors because big industries will come in and lobby for all kinds of additional regulations and enforce them, something that isn't happening yet. I think the biggest few companies will get buy offers from major companies to acquire customers and possibly suppliers. Think about the herbal supplement section in every grocery store, pharmacy kind of deal that's where i see this going eventually. The few biggest companies that take over the product will produce a good product for their customers, either with extracts added in or a super control overseas process that will produce uniform great product. The price will also continue to go down, as it already is currently, but at a much steeper dive down again cutting out many vendors.

Indonesia will not ban the product if USA is not. They will follow USA's lead. The product is such a large export and provides so much money to their country. Its already becoming more organized overseas. Many suppliers teaming up and building up their infrastructure, warehouses, drying facilities, plantations. This will ramp up even more as big money gets involved and sponsors/purchases more equipment and infrastructure for them. A little regulation added overseas will cut out the small farmers. I personally agree that some regulations are needed over there as its the wild wild west. Something to enforce suppliers to have checks taken for soil quality looking mainly for lead, which I try to preach as much as possible is a problem with most commercial grade kratom. Check out mitragaia's labs on his website. Most are well over the limit for lead some double the limit, and they have already had a fda noticed posted on their products previously for lead. Some regulation also on age of tree harvest would also go over great, it would help produce better quality product for us.

That's my opinion on it.

Love hearing ur insight on the industry. Do u think the regulation will also protect the trees better or will it get worse i.e. cutting whole trees down, or do u think it's all going to go the way of the plantation?

[B Dub B]

Hopefully it just stays "underground" like it has been so far. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've gotten very little crap kratom in the couple of years I've been taking it. And I cannot point, even once, to being so much as mildly poisoned by it. For comparison, I've had more bad reactions to taco bell, or a pizza buffet for lunch, many times (at least once or twice a year back when I was eating that garbage every day ha-ha) and cannot specifically blame kratom for so much as vomiting once, in several years. While regulation sounds fine on paper, all it means is higher prices and fewer choices for the consumer.

This forum has done more for kratom than any govt. ever will. Word gets around here, we report the good, the bad, and the rip off prices, all because we are at ground level and know as much or more about it than they do. Not that anyone seems to know a ton about kratom ha-ha.

Totally agreed. This forum is (present tense) a part of my ritual and kind of my bible right now.

Regulation doesn't necessarily mean higher prices and such... (see pot growth business model) However, it will fuck it up. Guaranteed!! I love our quaint community. I recently started exploring the FB groups, some quality inquiries but a lot of nonsense and meandering. Meandering?! Like this right here.

Keep it underground!

Yea.. Enjoy the now, cuz it may not be like this for many more years. I hope that's not the case, but if it keeps growing, I doubt we'll have the unique batches of fire we easily find right now (thanks to awesome vendors).

[DylanJames]

I see the benefits for us by keeping it underground. But ethically speaking, I think that since Kratom can help with so many ailments and is so much better for you, I'd like more people to know about it and have access to it. Realistically though, that would cause Pharmaceutical companies to squash it as soon as they could. Speaking emotionally, I'd love for it to stay underground so we can continue to enjoy its current status and remain privileged to have found it. But I also have to consider the ethical implications of keeping it that way. Rationally, it should be made available to all and kept to high standards and enjoyed both from the financial benefits and the benefits it provides society as overall. But yeah, that's rational so it'll never happen. I have to side with ethics. Fighting a battle to keep it the way it is whilst also getting it out there.

[Jfish030]

I think it will go mainstream at some point possibly in the next 5-7 years. The moment Visa/MasterCard allow purchase its over for any small/medium online vendors because big industries will come in and lobby for all kinds of additional regulations and enforce them, something that isn't happening yet. I think the biggest few companies will get buy offers from major companies to acquire customers and possibly suppliers. Think about the herbal supplement section in every grocery store, pharmacy kind of deal that's where i see this going eventually. The few biggest companies that take over the product will produce a good product for their customers, either with extracts added in or a super control overseas process that will produce uniform great product. The price will also continue to go down, as it already is currently, but at a much steeper dive down again cutting out many vendors.

Indonesia will not ban the product if USA is not. They will follow USA's lead. The product is such a large export and provides so much money to their country. Its already becoming more organized overseas. Many suppliers teaming up and building up their infrastructure, warehouses, drying facilities, plantations. This will ramp up even more as big money gets involved and sponsors/purchases more equipment and infrastructure for them. A little regulation added overseas will cut out the small farmers. I personally agree that some regulations are needed over there as its the wild wild west. Something to enforce suppliers to have checks taken for soil quality looking mainly for lead, which I try to preach as much as possible is a problem with most commercial grade kratom. Check out mitragaia's labs on his website. Most are well over the limit for lead some double the limit, and they have already had a fda noticed posted on their products previously for lead. Some regulation also on age of tree harvest would also go over great, it would help produce better quality product for us.

That's my opinion on it.

Love hearing ur insight on the industry. Do u think the regulation will also protect the trees better or will it get worse i.e. cutting whole trees down, or do u think it's all going to go the way of the plantation?

Its going all plantations fast. A majority of wild trees are topped and or cut down. Much easier to harvest a tree on the ground then 30 ft up. Its like any crop you grow, its much easier and controlled to do plantations/grow your own. The stigma behind plantations is currently because they are mainly all young trees. They top the trees in plantations to keep them short and bushy allowing easier harvesting. I personally see this product going all plantation in the next 2-3 years. Trees planted 3-4 years ago are already getting to a good age and in the next 2-3 years they will produce pretty good product. Soil samples should be pushed by as many vendors as possible to get these guys overseas to make sure they aren't wasting years of growth in bad soil. The Indonesians really dont care. They need to be pushed just like everything that has happened so far.

Turmeric has alot of lead issues but i dont think the fda and other agencies will let kratom pass by as easy. Especially since our product is leaf based. The fact that any kratom is failing for lead means the soil there is horrible or the milling machines are adding it in. Im leaning towards the soil as the cause because of the pictures I have seen over there of how they treat their land it's bad. They dump trash everywhere and into the rivers.

[onespeedstop]

The fact that any kratom is failing for lead means the soil there is horrible or the milling machines are adding it in. Im leaning towards the soil as the cause because of the pictures I have seen over there of how they treat their land it's bad. They dump trash everywhere and into the rivers.

Much like many vendors test for mit content, we the consumers could just press them to add testing for lead - so we pay $1.50 a kilo more (or whatever) problem solved without 3 middleman who then triple the price. It then stands to reason that vendors would push that pressure to their suppliers, to do something about the lead problem (if there is one) and things get fixed. Obviously it's a bit more complicated than that, but I kind of don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe the AKA could make it a standard, enough vendors would jump in that it would become normal in a year or two. Just an idea, since I do consider lead poisoning a serious issue, more serious than plantations/young leaves.

[Jfish030]

The fact that any kratom is failing for lead means the soil there is horrible or the milling machines are adding it in. Im leaning towards the soil as the cause because of the pictures I have seen over there of how they treat their land it's bad. They dump trash everywhere and into the rivers.

Much like many vendors test for mit content, we the consumers could just press them to add testing for lead - so we pay $1.50 a kilo more (or whatever) problem solved without 3 middleman who then triple the price. It then stands to reason that vendors would push that pressure to their suppliers, to do something about the lead problem (if there is one) and things get fixed. Obviously it's a bit more complicated than that, but I kind of don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe the AKA could make it a standard, enough vendors would jump in that it would become normal in a year or two. Just an idea, since I do consider lead poisoning a serious issue, more serious than plantations/young leaves.

Many good vendors do just that. I personally have been working with my suppliers to do soil sample testing on future plantation locations (long story but that is the way the industry will be going 95% plantation, you dont buy wild harvest moringa and such its all grown.) Also all my suppliers use stainless steel equipment. Most kratom is fine but there is kratom high in lead out there. You can reference the fda report on heavy metals and from personal sight i have seen some that was too high for us. If your vendor isnt testing for lead they wont know and neither will their customers.

With much push back i personally dont think the FDA is HORRIBLE. They do a job that does need to be done. Their report on kratom was needed as the industry is and was really wild west back then. Same with the salmonella backlash that effected almost every vendor at the time. Some companies that were testing still got wrapped up in that situation. The outcome was great for the industry and has "lead" to more and more vendors doing the right thing. Vendors need to take these FDA reports serious and push for better for themselves and their customers.

On a side note Turmeric has a horrible history of lead issues too and its still on every grocery store. I dont take the FDA reports as a there trying to cut us out of our kratom but more hey you guys need to watch for this stuff and do better.

[BallzDeep9]

... to do something about the lead problem (if there is one) ... I do consider lead poisoning a serious issue, more serious than plantations/ young leaves.

Of course, lead poisoning "would be" a serious issue. . Any real PROOF that there's a problem with kratom ?? I mean, look, here we're in a discussion about The Future Of Kratom - and right away it turns into negative FUD... Seems like we can't discuss kratom anywhere... without someone immediately blasting some "harm reduction" real or imagined. Either a dangerous "drug" causing addiction, OR it's a unsafe product containing poison and heavy metals?

Good grief. Someone needs to Do The Math - FDA and CDC, has Standards for this stuff. These are already established, for Food products. Vegetables... any food such as Lettuce that is close to the soil. We know that Root Vegetables; potatoes, carrots are most likely to contain higher levels of Lead. As mentioned, Turmeric... comes from a root source. CDC Link: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/ ... tm#T1_down

Until we KNOW for a fact, that there's a problem... Why even discuss it ?? Maybe I'm missing this. Did AKA ever publish a response, to the FDA Fear Mongering of two years ago? ( LINK ) Doing the math, Converting from nanograms ng/g to micrograms / kilograms?? Comparing kratom to other foods? How about any Research, Dr McCurdy? Anything?

Really I just spent 30 minutes down this Rabbit Hole... I give up. -- Here ya go: https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stories ... -in-kratom // COMMENT: the FDA didn't use ‘micrograms per kilogram’ format, and are represented in the ‘nanograms per gram’ format instead? The standard testing for heavy metals is in mg/kg and providing it in ng/g is artificially inflating the numbers to look like they are outside the realm of safety, when they aren't. They (FDA) are fearmongering, plain and simple...

[mivanqua]

Such bullshit. We all need to stay away from Kraken/Phyto. Got it! But they are SO VERY POPULAR. Haha! First off FDA, give me some info I can be scared of! Nobody pays those prices for kratom! Who uses those companies?

[BallzDeep9]

Its going all plantations fast. A majority of wild trees are topped and or cut down. Much easier to harvest a tree on the ground then 30 ft up. Its like any crop you grow, its much easier and controlled to do plantations/grow your own. The stigma behind plantations is currently because they are mainly all young trees.

Yes, because "young trees" and short trees, don't contain the strong % of alkaloids compared to very mature tall trees.

That's been known and studied for years, Top quality kratom = Old trees. . Sad to hear what you're saying, but it's understandable. USA Drug Labs that process cheap bulk leaf, to make extract "shots" products, really don't care... Like you say, Indonesians don't care, bottom line is the money $. They are getting a much lower Price, per Kg thanks to AKA profiteers and extract labs. A vendor like TFH, really stands out in 2021...

IF they have destroyed the forests in Ketapang, and Hulu ?? there are still mature trees in Central Kali, and Sumatra. A Top quality All Natural food product kratom, should be separated from cheap bulk leaf... Maybe our last chance, for "small batch" wild harvested kratom? Would be to organize a group of USA vendors, and establish a Indonesian marketing product similar to Japanese Matcha Tea... with Indo Brand Name recognition? Give them, not only higher $ per Kilo but also promote their company buy-in to Quality Control.

I'm probably dreaming, . it would take a group of Online Vendors, working together to establish a network / Indo connections dedicated to the finest quality, in exchange for higher prices? The USA scene is 200 small vendors all doing their own thing, so hard to imagine, cooperation would be needed in order to change course, make something happen on a larger scale.

[onespeedstop]

https://www.washington.edu/news/2016/02 ... udy-finds/

Unless they are growing kratom trees in an industrial area, the risk of lead poisoning seems very very low. I mean it's low in urban areas (see the link above) it can't be very high out in the dang jungle can it ?

That said, I'm all for vendors testing, but unless people are getting sick and dying, then no regulation seems needed at this point, or any point until it's a problem that can't/won't be solved otherwise. Ie = until someone gets a lawyer, then it's all over ha-ha.

In 3-4 years I think I've found maybe 2 tiny-tiny rocks in my kratom, zero bugs, and maybe a couple of little hairs. Hardly cause for concern, since this was over the course of years, from approx. 10 different vendors. Never once got sick that I can specifically blame on kratom.

So yeah, the lead concern, or anything other than mold (which is often visible upon inspection, or something you might be able to just smell) seems low enough to not really worry about, let alone call for extra taxes and govt. interference. *shrug*

[Jfish030]

https://www.washington.edu/news/2016/02 ... udy-finds/

Unless they are growing kratom trees in an industrial area, the risk of lead poisoning seems very very low. I mean it's low in urban areas (see the link above) it can't be very high out in the dang jungle can it ?

That said, I'm all for vendors testing, but unless people are getting sick and dying, then no regulation seems needed at this point, or any point until it's a problem that can't/won't be solved otherwise. Ie = until someone gets a lawyer, then it's all over ha-ha.

In 3-4 years I think I've found maybe 2 tiny-tiny rocks in my kratom, zero bugs, and maybe a couple of little hairs. Hardly cause for concern, since this was over the course of years, from approx. 10 different vendors. Never once got sick that I can specifically blame on kratom.

So yeah, the lead concern, or anything other than mold (which is often visible upon inspection, or something you might be able to just smell) seems low enough to not really worry about, let alone call for extra taxes and govt. interference. *shrug*

Have you see the pictures of where kratom comes from? That place is 3rd WORLD. They dont have garbage centers or anything. Trash is put everywhere. There is no trash man. The river is a quick and easy place to throw your trash because it just "disappears". Most damage from lead isn't going to put you in the hospital. Its like hey my memory isn't as good anymore, must be getting old. I have a harder time now a days concentrating. Wow its weird i feel like i cant focus as well i used to, whats wrong with me... Most kratom is grown on plantations, many are feed directly from river water. There's a reason the government made gas lead free.

[TacomaGuy]

I would like to hear some peoples thoughts on what lies next for this wondrous plant. Ultimately, an idealized version of the future and a realistic version within the next 10 years.

I believe the market will become too strong to ignore in America. "Big (fill in the blank)" will monetize, sanitize and tax an industry they create. However, I think the D615 and small batch peeps will be fine but probably operate outside the box which they are already perfecting, it seems.

Ideally, to be honest, right now isn't that bad for the consumer. Admittedly, I am a year in, lacking in experience AND knowledge. Deadly combo there. I think the pricing is amazing, our vendors are fucking heroes in my world and the community is very bright and affable. I do not see many similarities to the Pro marijuana movement of the past 50 years. However, even that motley crew of haggard fucks got the job done and legalized it.

end with obvious cliche...

In a matter of 5 years kratom has gone from being demonized and compared to heroin by the media to almost complete acceptance and being mostly shown in a positive light by the same media. This is because of the hard work and grassroots movement from kratom users to educate people about this plant.

Kratom sales have been a huge industry in America for a decade and its building more and more momentum every single day. I think it will become mainstream in the homeopathic and holistic medicine industry. Soon you will see it for sale in stores like super supplements and used in many products.

I also think it will continue to be explored in the medical community and used to help people suffering from hard drug addiction.

Kratom has a bright future in America which is almost shocking considering we were weeks away from it becoming completely illegal.

[onespeedstop]

Have you see the pictures of where kratom comes from? That place is 3rd WORLD. They dont have garbage centers or anything. Trash is put everywhere. There is no trash man. The river is a quick and easy place to throw your trash because it just "disappears". Most damage from lead isn't going to put you in the hospital. Its like hey my memory isn't as good anymore, must be getting old. I have a harder time now a days concentrating. Wow its weird i feel like i cant focus as well i used to, whats wrong with me... Most kratom is grown on plantations, many are feed directly from river water. There's a reason the government made gas lead free.

What trash then if it's a 3rd world country, there's no 7-11 down the road, what has lead in it that these people have are throwing on the ground (or in the river) near the kratom trees ? I'm not trying to start a fight, just saying, what is the actual level of the threat, or what is the supposed threat at all.

If there's some industrial factory place or something near there, then sure, I'd imagine some of that non-OSHA approved wastewater gets into the ground near the kratom trees. But is that a real concern, is it happening at all ? It wasn't in the handful of videos I saw, but maybe it is in other places.

Ultimately, I'd be more concerned about an American (myself being in the U.S.) company polluting as bad or worse things into my grocery store food (the water used to grow it and/or wash it after harvest) just because they can either get away with it free, or they've paid enough senators off that the fine is a fraction of a fraction of the cost of disposing of it properly. (Not to mention the anti-biotics used in the farm-factory meat industry. #different_rant.) My main concern with kratom is mold, and maybe salmonella. Or that it's weak and I paid too much for too little ha-ha.

[Playerpiano72]

Such bullshit. We all need to stay away from Kraken/Phyto. Got it! But they are SO VERY POPULAR. Haha! First off FDA, give me some info I can be scared of! Nobody pays those prices for kratom! Who uses those companies?

I.need.my.PHENOTYPES

whatever happened to those? Also you don't hear "nano" mentioned much anymore either

[Jfish030]

Have you see the pictures of where kratom comes from? That place is 3rd WORLD. They dont have garbage centers or anything. Trash is put everywhere. There is no trash man. The river is a quick and easy place to throw your trash because it just "disappears". Most damage from lead isn't going to put you in the hospital. Its like hey my memory isn't as good anymore, must be getting old. I have a harder time now a days concentrating. Wow its weird i feel like i cant focus as well i used to, whats wrong with me... Most kratom is grown on plantations, many are feed directly from river water. There's a reason the government made gas lead free.

What trash then if it's a 3rd world country, there's no 7-11 down the road, what has lead in it that these people have are throwing on the ground (or in the river) near the kratom trees ? I'm not trying to start a fight, just saying, what is the actual level of the threat, or what is the supposed threat at all.

If there's some industrial factory place or something near there, then sure, I'd imagine some of that non-OSHA approved wastewater gets into the ground near the kratom trees. But is that a real concern, is it happening at all ? It wasn't in the handful of videos I saw, but maybe it is in other places.

Ultimately, I'd be more concerned about an American (myself being in the U.S.) company polluting as bad or worse things into my grocery store food (the water used to grow it and/or wash it after harvest) just because they can either get away with it free, or they've paid enough senators off that the fine is a fraction of a fraction of the cost of disposing of it properly. (Not to mention the anti-biotics used in the farm-factory meat industry. #different_rant.) My main concern with kratom is mold, and maybe salmonella. Or that it's weak and I paid too much for too little ha-ha.

Heres a quick recent video of kratom over there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGPVvq4umQQ

With that said yes they dump anything and everything into the river. If you dont care about the lead that's OK. You only care about mold and salmonella because you heard about those or know them to be true. The rates of salmonella are so low now id be less concerned with that. The fda published a report, shows lead in concerning levels in some samples. I'm telling you they aren't lying that there are batches with high levels out there. There is bad soil over there that the farmers are growing in. If your not testing for heavy metals you dont know, if your vendor isn't testing you wont know either.

[Fhietra899]

Future of kratom...

Its many possibilities with the future of kratom. This comodity isnt get controlled yet by goverments in any country. I was in management of Indonesian kratom association or ppl know as Pekrindo, we still fightin for this legality in Indo and all i can say is kratom will stay legal in here even for its still in grey area bcause its still worthed in this area.
Its has possibilities will totally in green area in this country but you should prepare its will controlled by big company, and its will be higher prices, and as i know its will just 2 country that supplying kratom to the world "Indonesia and Thailand".

About the contaminant.
Yes, there's still much unstandarized processing kratom that improper to consume, many factors that can makes kratom have high lead, improper process, unstandarize milling machine, river that already contaminant , and dont forget about the RAIN that already have lead content bcause of vehicles emission, and factory emission that have really big factors leaves got contaminated from Rain that brings it.
If you know there's vendors that sell improper kratom, so dont buy it from the vendors that you know selling its, that's simple things.

But there's still vendors and also association that already built good manufacturing facility that makes kratom proper to consume and its will running this year. So dont worries bout 10 years from now, kratom will be a proper to consume.

All things that i worried bout kratom is It's will controlled by really big company that makes suppliers country just can sell to big company and the big company will sell it to consumers country and they will straight sell it to consumers by their own retailers.

[Greyhound/10]

All things that i worried bout kratom is It's will controlled by really big company that makes suppliers country just can sell to big company and the big company will sell it to consumers country and they will straight sell it to consumers by their own retailers.

This. I think, just like cannabis, once kratom has a breakthrough, it’s a short step to proliferation then consolidation. Small businesses will struggle to handle state specific compliance issues leaving only well capitalized big companies. The upshot is the small businesses that are successful and on the front ends of this will have the opportunity to become the large corporations in one sense or another. Lots of opportunities if it follows the cannabis model but will fundamentally change the nature and vibe of this community.

I do worry about pharma taking this over however and turning something that’s accessible and natural into something that’s inaccessible, patented, and expensive.

[Loveandpeace]

I love getting the local Indonesian guy making a comment. I would love to hear more of that native opinion. Thank you for replying Fhietra899.

All of these concerns sound legit. As I see it, we have another 2 years or so of any real activity and much has gone our way so far. That is great news! I am actually quite hopeful. It think America is coming around to the humanitarian, good-of-the-people-collectively type attitude. It is much needed, the cowboy shit is getting old.

It sounds cliche but the world can move around me as long as this forum stays the same.

[Fhietra899]

I love getting the local Indonesian guy making a comment. I would love to hear more of that native opinion. Thank you for replying Fhietra899.

All of these concerns sound legit. As I see it, we have another 2 years or so of any real activity and much has gone our way so far. That is great news! I am actually quite hopeful. It think America is coming around to the humanitarian, good-of-the-people-collectively type attitude. It is much needed, the cowboy shit is getting old.

It sounds cliche but the world can move around me as long as this forum stays the same.

You're welcome.

It's an honour to share any informations that happened about kratom in Indonesia. Every news that spread bout kratom in Indo is not worst as ppl think, there's many ppl in Indo still fightin for this plant legality including several Governor, Ministry, and another goverment officials in Indo wants this plant still legal. And aslo many farmers and suppliers improvise to make kratom processing in good ways so its proper to consume.

[Loveandpeace]

Fhietra,

If so many high ranking officials approve and see the money, why is it taking so long? I know the answer is much more complicated just not sure how.

Does it have a bad reputation in Indo? Like marijuana did in America?

I hope these questions don't sound too dumb.

It is very difficult to think that big business or government hasn't seized control.

[Fhietra899]

Fhietra,

If so many high ranking officials approve and see the money, why is it taking so long? I know the answer is much more complicated just not sure how.

Does it have a bad reputation in Indo? Like marijuana did in America?

I hope these questions don't sound too dumb.

It is very difficult to think that big business or government hasn't seized control.

It's really complicated right here.
In my opinion "even there's plenty goverment officials wants it legal, there's a Big Power that still want it illegal in here". That's just my opinion...

[Loveandpeace]

Everything in the whole wide world is based on money. Why is this different?

Religion? That is all I can think of.

[DittonW]

Everything in the whole wide world is based on money. Why is this different?

Religion? That is all I can think of.

more going on behind the scenes that just gnp - The reason it was originally banned in Thailand , I have read this from a number of different sources, is because the powers that be, including the government , was actively profiting and promoting the use and sale of opium. Kratom use was cutting into the poppy profit. I don't know if that is the Big Power that Fhietra is referencing. But opiates, both legal and illegal , are still Billion $ industries . The organizations that facilitate and profit from the illegal trade are powerful in ways that are hard to comprehend . I won't turn this into a political thread , but there is solid evidence that intelligence organizations from a few different countries have been involved for a long time. If your profits are made illegally and off the books they can go wherever you want them to, no oversight .

I'm not saying that's what is happening in Indonesia, I have no idea. The little bit of research I just did makes me really curious about what kind of intrigue is going on behind the scenes.

[Fhietra899]

Everything in the whole wide world is based on money. Why is this different?

Religion? That is all I can think of.

Religions are not involved in this case. Ditton W has mentioned his argument bout the situations and i can said its True.

Several big companies and drugs industries will got advantage if kratom goes illegal.

[HoagsObject]

Many have strong feelings against genetic engineering but I won’t be surprised if the profit motive around Kratom leads to gmo Kratom. Consider, demand from Kratom is growing every day. Investors see the potential for profit. Suppose that a group of investors and biologists decode the Kratom genome and discover the gene(s) that produce the relevant psychoactive alkaloids.
Then let us suppose that they “splice” those genes into a microorganism that can be grown cheaply in a bioreactor. They would, in principle, be able to create a uniform standardized dose of Kratom extract with consistent predictable effect.

I can see that their might be demand for a Kratom pill with a consistent predictable effect. After all many of us are frustrated by the inconsistent and unpredictable effects of Kratom from batch to batch and vendor to vendor.

I think if the market of supply and demand is allowed to decide this could very well happen.

I am not advocating for this I’m just predicting a possible future for Kratom

[onespeedstop]

I can see that their might be demand for a Kratom pill with a consistent predictable effect. After all many of us are frustrated by the inconsistent and unpredictable effects of Kratom from batch to batch and vendor to vendor.

That's what keeps it "safe" from the corporations though. They already have weed/THC pills, I've known exactly one person who used them, in the late 90's, because they were "free" from his healthcare plan, and because he couldn't always find weed locally. Ie = it was no one's first choice.

The fact that kratom is relatively -weak- and inconsistent, is a blessing in this way. And really, it's not that bad, if you spend some time looking for good sources, then yer set. I've had about 5% bunk, ever, some a bit weaker than others, but then I did my research from day one, so you know, ya get what ya pay for....literally. And I've said it before, but I'll say it again, if yer here on MM, then you are already streets ahead, top 20% if not top 10% of those who looked into it Just read some reviews, and check the *list* and yer golden, it almost doesn't get any better unless you know a grower and can get it fresh ha-ha.