Tapering...ugh

[Cuttlefish]

When you say under your tongue, do you literally mean like sublingual? You hold it under your tongue until it dissolves or something? I’ve never heard of that one, now I feel like taking a tiny bit extra tonight to check it out. Do you think it absorbs better?

[Theanine]

Ordered some cats claw per your link!
And gotcha, it must just come down to individual biochemistry, my brain has been messed up from heavy opiate use from too young an age, I must be extra susceptible to these things. I too take about 12-16 hours off a day, last dose at 5pm and start at 6-9am depending on work schedule. It has been a long time since I’ve taken more then a day off, I’m due for one. I’m glad it works for you.
Received my first batch of stem and vein from Liza’s, looking forward to experimenting with that.
Kratom literally saved my life, not only from harder opiates but everything else under the sun, been clean over 3 years now. It really is a magical plant, and I live in Ohio so hopefully the government doesn’t go through with their ban, or I’m looking to move if they do. Got like 5000 grams saved up though if they do, ha

Cat's Claw is a great start, and with Kratom's stem 'n vain, you're golden. I too need to try that out, heard great things, I know it works because kratom is in fact a tolerance reducer. There were times where I would overdo it by going around the clock for a day and instead of simply stopping to reset, that would cause withdrawal at that point, I simply start taking ever lowering but frequent dosing, this actually stops tolerance in its tracks, not to mention that I still get good effect, even from those lowering doses. This is a trick I have learned decades ago with a different drug, it actually doesn't work with most drugs, only the ones that reduce their own tolerance, very few like that out there, I personally only know of one other one. It may sound insane, but if you consider how Kratom works, it makes sense. Stem 'n vein would be even better as it is very low in opioids, so its all just tolerance reduction. Theoretically, one could vary their daily dosage without even tapering and keep their tolerance at bay, the key here is decreasing dosages, even so slightly. A day or two of that, and you can go cold turkey without any discomfort at all. More than once, after abusing the plant, I hit a pretty hard withdrawal and instead of suffering through it, took frequent low doses of kratom throughout the day, the day following that I took nothing, the withdrawals, ever so slight, were gone completely!?! Perplexing, how could you reduce your tolerance with the very substance you used to build it up in the first place, you can and you should!

Look, there is nothing wrong with your brain, years of opioids or not. Once you add those tolerance reducers in, including more, well Kratom, your withdrawals would be at a minimum. Be in tune with yourself, you will soon develop a schedule that works for you. Wake up and start you dosing, but stop at some point half way through the day (early evening) and start your tolerance reducing regimen, you do NOT need to cut out your Kratom at that point, you can, but it is not required, as long as your evening doses are about half of your daily ones, the Kratom begins to actually reverse the tolerance. Sure, you will get no great "burns" from your evening doses that are low, but who cares, you aren't in any discomfort and you aren't building up the tolerance. Believe me, I have been experimenting with this for nearly a year. Different people will have differing results and capacities for tolerance build/up reversal, but I believe that this method would work for most people, properly implemented. I am not a research scientist, and there is literally zero science on Kratom's tolerance reversal, and even if there were, we wouldn't know about it, it would stay behind the closed doors of research universities for decades, thank you big Pharma. In any case, we are all here psychonauts, and as such we explore the unknown space and venture where no human has gone before. No, this isn't Star Trek.

Kratom on.

[Theanine]

When you say under your tongue, do you literally mean like sublingual? You hold it under your tongue until it dissolves or something? I’ve never heard of that one, now I feel like taking a tiny bit extra tonight to check it out. Do you think it absorbs better?

You want all my secrets? Yes, I take a measuring teaspoon full, and place it upside down right in that space under your tongue, the 2.5 grams fits in there perfectly! I keep it there for a couple of minutes, then add warm water and swish swoosh, good Kratom taste a bit like tea actually. I start to feel it within seconds, there is significant sublingual absorption going on, but most of it is still absorbed via the GI. Now, with the extract, you can keep it under your tongue until it is fully dissolved, so it does not get destroyed by the first pass metabolism. So, this is mostly an extract technique, but it works with regular Kratom too, to some extent. It must be a premium product. Generally speaking, no botanical in its initial form would be a good candidate for the sublingual absorption method because of the low occurrence of alkaloids within any given plant. Kratom is just 5% alkaloids, 1/20th, not much of it will enter the bloodstream until the complete break down of the plant material, but some of it does get through, so this method gets you about +10% in effects on any given dose.

[Cuttlefish]

Thank you so much for your secrets ha. I had heard about the tolerance reducers in the kratom, but I always figured it wasn’t enough to combat the same dose, and you needed the stem and vein to really get that going.
I never would’ve guess in a million years the taking progressively lower doses throughout the day lowers tolerance and would help that much, still stuck in old ways of thinking. Kratoms even more
Magic than I thought.
I’m going to give it a try, I’ve always ended the day with my largest dose, my reasoning being after the half day break every night I don’t need as much to feel the 1st dose, the 2nd dose is usually smaller and I don’t expect as much effect, and the 3rd I’d take the largest because of the diminishing returns throughout the day.
I appreciate you taking the time to tell me all of that, def going to try sublingual tomorrow, saw some people saying to mix w honey I’m the freezer and put that under your tongue.
Maybe I should break my 3 doses up into more like 5.
Very interesting stuff, I hope someday they do adequate research into kratom.
Thanks again

Ps the dxm thing is funny, I used to take a point to take a day off my old habit every month to down a bottle of cough syrup, the next day I’d be down to very small doses. Some very weird days haha. Last time I took cold medicine I nearly tripped off just like 30mg, then I read dxm has a reverse tolerance, so that one I’m a little scared to try again, but it’s been years now.

[Theanine]

Thank you so much for your secrets ha. I had heard about the tolerance reducers in the kratom, but I always figured it wasn’t enough to combat the same dose, and you needed the stem and vein to really get that going.
I never would’ve guess in a million years the taking progressively lower doses throughout the day lowers tolerance and would help that much, still stuck in old ways of thinking. Kratoms even more
Magic than I thought.
I’m going to give it a try, I’ve always ended the day with my largest dose, my reasoning being after the half day break every night I don’t need as much to feel the 1st dose, the 2nd dose is usually smaller and I don’t expect as much effect, and the 3rd I’d take the largest because of the diminishing returns throughout the day.
I appreciate you taking the time to tell me all of that, def going to try sublingual tomorrow, saw some people saying to mix w honey I’m the freezer and put that under your tongue.
Maybe I should break my 3 doses up into more like 5.
Very interesting stuff, I hope someday they do adequate research into kratom.
Thanks again

Ps the dxm thing is funny, I used to take a point to take a day off my old habit every month to down a bottle of cough syrup, the next day I’d be down to very small doses. Some very weird days haha. Last time I took cold medicine I nearly tripped off just like 30mg, then I read dxm has a reverse tolerance, so that one I’m a little scared to try again, but it’s been years now.

You're welcome! I am glad that my revelations were helpful to you, but remember, I can not know if this will work for everyone or indeed anyone. I do know that it works for me, that is it. I am not a medical professional and anything I say can not be construed as a medical advice of any kind. This is simply my own experience in which I am sharing with whomever cares to read this.

It is logical to progressively increase your dosages of Kratom with the progression of the day. This ensures that you receive full spectrum of Kratom's effects even with consecutive dosing. However, if you go the other way on this, you will eliminate your withdrawals. With stem 'n vein, it will be even more so. Also, consider adding DLPA and Turmeric to your regimen.

Another point is about the DXM, you certainly do not need a whole bottle of it. In fact, one regular dose (20 mg) taken maybe once or thrice per week is sufficient and it does wonders since the DXM is not only an NMDA antagonist but also a Delta opioid agonist, which is another mechanism by which the opioid tolerance is reversed. Regular euphoric opioids affect so called Mu opioid receptors, stimulation of the Kappa opioid receptors actually causes dysphoria, opposite of euphoria.

[DrFappingston]

My Cat's Claw & DLPA arrived yesterday. I also ordered Gabba and 5-HTP since I've been looking at those for awhile. I'm not sure whether I should be taking the Gaba and 5-HTP once per day in the AM/PM or twice. From what I've gathered in this thread, I'm supposed to be taking 1 of each of the DLPA and Cat's Claw in the PM after my last serving of kratom. Last night I took 2 of each of the supplements to hopefully kickstart the buildup in my system. I have no idea how long I'm supposed to wait before expecting them to take effect, mainly the DLPA and Cat's Claw. I also don't know how much I should be taking.

As far as the HTP-5 and Gabba go, from my research it seems like 5-HTP should be part of a regular regimen and Gaba can be taken as needed and/or as a regular regimen. If anyone has any knowledge on these two, any input or insight would be very well received.

Currently my daily regimen is as follows:

AM (w/ first serving of kratom);
Multivitamin
Turmeric/Bioperine 1x (need to pick up some more of this... If nothing else, it did seem to help with my joint stiffness.)
Magnesium Citrate 1x 100mg (because kratom is fiber and that comes with it's own set of unique issues.
Vitamin D3 1x 125mcg (5,000iu)
Vitamin B6 1x 100mg
Gaba 1x 750mg
5-HTP 1x 100mg
Caffeine Pill 1x 200mg (stopped drinking so many energy drinks, soda and coffee and switched to these to get the caffeine without all the sugars and such. I'm a slave to caffeine.)

PM (After last serving, before bed.);
DLPA 1x 500mg
Cat's Claw 1x 334mg
Gaba 1x 750mg
5-HTP 1x 100mg

Edit: Added dosages for supplements

[Theanine]

My Cat's Claw & DLPA arrived yesterday. I also ordered Gabba and 5-HTP since I've been looking at those for awhile. I'm not sure whether I should be taking the Gaba and 5-HTP once per day in the AM/PM or twice. From what I've gathered in this thread, I'm supposed to be taking 1 of each of the DLPA and Cat's Claw in the PM after my last serving of kratom. Last night I took 2 of each of the supplements to hopefully kickstart the buildup in my system. I have no idea how long I'm supposed to wait before expecting them to take effect, mainly the DLPA and Cat's Claw. I also don't know how much I should be taking.

As far as the HTP-5 and Gabba go, from my research it seems like 5-HTP should be part of a regular regimen and Gaba can be taken as needed and/or as a regular regimen. If anyone has any knowledge on these two, any input or insight would be very well received.

Currently my daily regimen is as follows:

AM (w/ first serving of kratom);
Multivitamin
Turmeric/Bioperine 1x (need to pick up some more of this... If nothing else, it did seem to help with my joint stiffness.)
Magnesium Citrate 1x 100mg (because kratom is fiber and that comes with it's own set of unique issues.
Vitamin D3 1x 125mcg (5,000iu)
Vitamin B6 1x 100mg
Gaba 1x 750mg
5-HTP 1x 100mg
Caffeine Pill 1x 200mg (stopped drinking so many energy drinks, soda and coffee and switched to these to get the caffeine without all the sugars and such. I'm a slave to caffeine.)

PM (After last serving, before bed.);
DLPA 1x 500mg
Cat's Claw 1x 334mg
Gaba 1x 750mg
5-HTP 1x 100mg

Edit: Added dosages for supplements

5-HTP is not to be taken daily, no matter what you've read. This supplement modifies your 5HT (5-hydroxytryptamine) channels. That's your serotonin pathway, please do not mess with it, and stay off the melatonin too, it is only a matter of time before you can't sleep at all. I am not sure why you would take the 5HTP, I have had terrible results with it. It is great at first, but soon you are only left with the side effects, so be careful with that. That supplement is more of a pharmaceutical and it is not dissimilar to the SSRI's, and we all know that they cause brain damage, something to think about.

GABA (500 mg) is good by itself or with Theanine (200 mg), once or twice per day or as needed for anxiety.

DLPA (500 mg) twice per day, after kratom or with it, might diminish Kratom's effects if taken simultaneously.

Cat's Claw extract by NOW, one to two pills per day. Or about 5 grams of the regular Cat's Claw. With or without kratom. Might also interfere with Kratom if taken simultaneously.

Turmeric is good, but it really must be an extract, regular turmeric must be consumed in copious amounts for any benefit. I see that you have the bioprene in the mix, so I am sure that it is an extract. Also, do NOT take it with your Kratom as it will diminish it. Take it during your daily taper along with Cat's Claw, DLPA, etc.

Magnesium Citrate can be taken throughout the day, 2 to 3 times.

More details are coming when I have some more time.....

Getting ready for my next multi kilo order from Smiley's.
Must pick good this time, want fire!

[DrFappingston]

That's certainly something I've considered... The potential for seratonin sickness when tampering with the pathways and natural production of seratonin/dopamine. I'm also looking at DOPA mucuna (or just plain L-Dopa), but have similar holdups regarding it... When I was younger, I would experiment at length with all sorts of illicit substances. That is not the most intelligent thing that I've ever done, I'm also the type to research thrice before acting. I'd attempt to gather information regarding various substances via Erowid or BlueLight forums before taking them myself... I came out the other side (mostly) unscathed. However, these days I'm looking for ways to mitigate the symptoms of my ailments legally. Of course, that's not to say that any legal remedy is necessarily safer than their illicit counterparts. As many a nootropic or research chemical can be wildly dangerous if used outside of therapeutic means, or at least, what we can determine is considered therapeutic through the often limited anecdotal evidence available.

Looking into all of these supplements has sent me down a rabbit-hole of sorts, researching Nootropics again. This probably the 4th time that I've obsessively researched them, but still have yet to pull the trigger on any of them. I will keep the dosing schedule in mind for the DLPA and CC. Is there a reason you recommended "Swanson" instead of the "NOW" brand DLPA?

Aye... I should probably just stick to kratom as it's been nearly miraculous for me, but naturally, I get curious about things... I've always been that way, attempting to maintain a "peak performance", if you will.

[Theanine]

That's certainly something I've considered... The potential for seratonin sickness when tampering with the pathways and natural production of seratonin/dopamine. I'm also looking at DOPA mucuna (or just plain L-Dopa), but have similar holdups regarding it... When I was younger, I would experiment at length with all sorts of illicit substances. That is not the most intelligent thing that I've ever done, I'm also the type to research thrice before acting. I'd attempt to gather information regarding various substances via Erowid or BlueLight forums before taking them myself... I came out the other side (mostly) unscathed. However, these days I'm looking for ways to mitigate the symptoms of my ailments legally. Of course, that's not to say that any legal remedy is necessarily safer than their illicit counterparts. As many a nootropic or research chemical can be wildly dangerous if used outside of therapeutic means, or at least, what we can determine is considered therapeutic through the often limited anecdotal evidence available.

Looking into all of these supplements has sent me down a rabbit-hole of sorts, researching Nootropics again. This probably the 4th time that I've obsessively researched them, but still have yet to pull the trigger on any of them. I will keep the dosing schedule in mind for the DLPA and CC. Is there a reason you recommended "Swanson" instead of the "NOW" brand DLPA?

Aye... I should probably just stick to kratom as it's been nearly miraculous for me, but naturally, I get curious about things... I've always been that way, attempting to maintain a "peak performance", if you will.

I did not mean the serotonin syndrome, I just meant the general down regulation and rewiring of your 5ht receptors. Who knows, it may work for you, just be careful with that one, at the very least cycle it.

Everyone did drugs when they were young, and it was always stupid, no reason to beat yourself up about it....

A good way to Segway into the Noots is good ole Piracetam, safe and effective, not the most effective, but a good start. You really can't go wrong with it. After you get comfortable with that, you may consider researching other nootropics, Pramiracetam, Aniracetam, etc. Ensure to have a good choline source, nootropics feed of that, otherwise you'd get a headache. Do not ignore your AcetylCholine!

The Swanson brand is just cheaper, but they are both the same thing.

[DrFappingston]

Ah, I don't beat myself up over it these days. I only mentioned as a point of reference, or segway into mentioning my propensity for researching things before I dive into them. As far as the Nootropics go, without trying to de-rail the original point of this thread, I'm about to order these 4 as a starting point. Mainly looking for increased cognitive ability, energy and focus while working a stressful job. Adrafinil, Noopept, Oxiracetam and of course, Alpha GPC to address the inevitable Choline-deficiency that you mentioned.

I've also got a few other supplements I'm looking at from Amazon for mental health, specifically.. Though I'm thinking I'll wait on those and do some more research. Lithium Orotate, Mucuna Puriens (L-DOPA) and Ashwaghanda.

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.

[Theanine]

Ah, I don't beat myself up over it these days. I only mentioned as a point of reference, or segway into mentioning my propensity for researching things before I dive into them. As far as the Nootropics go, without trying to de-rail the original point of this thread, I'm about to order these 4 as a starting point. Mainly looking for increased cognitive ability, energy and focus while working a stressful job. Adrafinil, Noopept, Oxiracetam and of course, Alpha GPC to address the inevitable Choline-deficiency that you mentioned.

I've also got a few other supplements I'm looking at from Amazon for mental health, specifically.. Though I'm thinking I'll wait on those and do some more research. Lithium Orotate, Mucuna Puriens (L-DOPA) and Ashwaghanda.

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.

I discovered the nootropics about 20 years ago, but at this point I am down to the Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Alpha GPC, my favorite choline precursor. What I had realized with the Noots is that more is not better. I used to take Aniracetam and Pramiracetam, others too. Upon evaluation of my long term use, I realized that there were no actual benefits. They made me edgy and I just generally couldn't find a real balance where I was happy. ALCAR provides ALL that you body needs naturally, try it. It is super cheap on Amazon. Take one 500 mg capsule daily, in the morning, with about 300 - 600 mg of Alpha GPC. This is all that your body may need to optimize its function. Remember, nootropics modify glutamate channels, this is very dangerous. Overstimulation by glutamate might cause permanent brain damage. Imagine being permanently stuck in a panic attack?

It sounds like you are wanting to improve your dopamine functionally, and even here, I would like to caution you. Out of the above, stick with the Ashwagandha in the evenings. I do take that on occasion and it does too reverse Kratom's tolerance.

Lately, I have been adding some more botanicals. Gotu Kola, Moringa, Olive leaf extract. But what I would like to point your attention to is Haritaki. Some amazing stuff, resets and cleanses the pineal gland which calcifies with age and causes sporadic sleeping patterns and lack of dreaming. Another surprising effect that it gives, appetite suppression. Completely kills the munchies in their tracks, and it is NOT a stimulant. After a few weeks on it, my dreams are very vivid and colorful and I feel generally better, more in tune, it is hard to describe, but do give it a try.

https://haritaki.org

[beathappening]

Sublingual kratom-are you guys getting trolled on reddit again? My my, what the placebo effect is capable of. Now all that's left is the grand booty bump right?

[BurntEnds]

I take as little as 200-300mg of the agmatine right before bed and it's done a surprising job of preventing the need to escalate my doses. On nights I forget to take it I wake up feeling quite a bit more crunchy versus completely comfortable in the morning after the nights I do take it.

There's a plethora of useful information in this thread and I've tried nearly all of the compounds mentioned... For me and my body chemistry the most effective of all if them has definitely been the agmatine. But as I've seen mentioned I don't generally take it during the day, only after my last dose of Kratom right before I crawl into bed. Don't get me wrong most of the other supplements seem to work quite well I just get tired of taking handfuls of pills I've currently weaned down the number of things I'm taking to just agmatine and it's working fine even at that low dose.

[BallzDeep9]

I take as little as 200-300mg of the agmatine right before bed and it's done a surprising job of preventing the need to escalate my doses.

Hey I did that exactly, for the first time the other day.. 300 mg Agmatine at bed-time, where previously had cycled it during the day along with my kratom.. (Had the mood killing effects ugh.).. So the Agmatine at bed-time along WITH a 1-gram Stem & Vein.. AND 1 Tsp of Black Seed Oil.

wOw Knocked Out! That was a super sleepy cocktail.. think next time I'll skip the BSO. Agmatine definitely works at night, and would likely cure any restless problems or RLS.. as others have said. I'm going to stay at 300 mg or less, and try adding some Cats Claw. Gonna try maybe a 3-days cycle, to 1- reduce tolerance, 2- alleviate morning withdrawals

Here's a plug for Smiley's Pure Stem & Vein. Not sure if he's In Stock now, but it's about the best S+V product I've found, (Have not tried the KOG Malaysian S+V or other KOG however,) - Smiley's appears to be mostly Stem. Very light color powder, compared to the Red / Green S+V sold by Herbal RVA and others in the past.. Give a shout-out to STH, worth a try!

[Cj3]

I typically skip my evening serving and take agmatine one or two days a week, and use agmatine exclusively one day every other week or so. I hadn’t thought about using it before bed most nights. Maybe I’ll adjust my servings so my last one is earlier in the afternoon so I can use agmatine more often. Thanks for the idea!

[Theanine]

I take as little as 200-300mg of the agmatine right before bed and it's done a surprising job of preventing the need to escalate my doses.

Hey I did that exactly, for the first time the other day.. 300 mg Agmatine at bed-time, where previously had cycled it during the day along with my kratom.. (Had the mood killing effects ugh.).. So the Agmatine at bed-time along WITH a 1-gram Stem & Vein.. AND 1 Tsp of Black Seed Oil.

wOw Knocked Out! That was a super sleepy cocktail.. think next time I'll skip the BSO. Agmatine definitely works at night, and would likely cure any restless problems or RLS.. as others have said. I'm going to stay at 300 mg or less, and try adding some Cats Claw. Gonna try maybe a 3-days cycle, to 1- reduce tolerance, 2- alleviate morning withdrawals

Here's a plug for Smiley's Pure Stem & Vein. Not sure if he's In Stock now, but it's about the best S+V product I've found, (Have not tried the KOG Malaysian S+V or other KOG however,) - Smiley's appears to be mostly Stem. Very light color powder, compared to the Red / Green S+V sold by Herbal RVA and others in the past.. Give a shout-out to STH, worth a try!

I have found that the Nigella Sativa oil actually increased my tolerance. The next day Kratom burns feel less intense. In any case, Agmatine is awesome when taken apart from your Kratom, always in the evening. Also, as long as there is Kratom intake, an effort must be taken to reduce the continuously forming tolerance. As in, daily tolerance reducers and also preferably tapers, like 8 to 12 hours off Kratom daily. Those two factors will keep tolerance at bay on a permanent basis. As soon as you remove those, while continuing the opioid intake, yes even the leaf of life, your tolerance begins to build and with that comes the ineffectual burns, RLS, dose increases, etc. I would also add the DLPA (500 mg) to that mix, it is really a must. Not to mention the new tolerance reducer -- Palmitoylethanolamide, a cannabinoid modulator, which might be the best of them all! BTW, Kratom's Stem 'n Vein is something I have been meaning to try. It is very smart that you're using that. Frankly, I doubt that you would benefit from adding the Cat's Claw to that, the stem 'n vein is clearly superior.

Here is the discussion on Palmitoylethanolamide:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3153&p=28941&e=28941
That link is for anyone unaware of that thread.

[Lambeezy]

I agree black seed oil does seem to raise my tolerance also.

[Anoidance]

Aside from just the general health benefits of taking a magnesium supplement daily, I like the additional reduction in my Kratom tolerance. Plus the magnesium helps muscles relax!


(Apologies for the low quality post but in need to get my replies up lol)

[demafrost]

RE: The nootropics/supplement discussion. I've experimented with several of them and found that very few give me positive effects. Am I just really unlucky?

Turmeric - Sort of ok in a low dose but any regular dose gives me depression (like sadness depression not lack of motivation depression)
5HTP - The first time I took this 5 years ago I was like the happiest person ever that night. Since then all it does it make me tired, and sometimes depressed
SAMe - Took this daily for 2 months, was fine the first month, felt a bit of an energy and motivation burst, but then I started noticing depression bouts 6-8 hours after taking. They were short, maybe 30 minutes long but was enough for me to stop taking
Mucuna Puriens - Gives me a noticeable energy and motivation boost, but then left me feeling sad/depressed after taking.

I know...a lot of depression here. Most of it isn't so bad, but its nothing compared to....

Uridine - I took this for 3 weeks in small doses. After the first 10 days it gave me significant motivational boosts. On days I took kratom as well I was flying around the house getting stuff done that normally I would probably ignore. But I was only taking like 25% of the recommended dose because any more would make me depressed all day. Had to stop taking because it was ultimately making me depressed even in small doses. I might go back to taking 2-3 days a week because I loved the motivational boost
Acetyl-L-Carnitine - Made me very depressed every time I took in any amount
Alpha GPC - Same - I realize they are both choline supplements but I had someone promise me that their GPC is pure and would not cause me any problems
Choline - Straight from the store...same issues with depression

I think I read somewhere that I might have issues with Methyl donors which pretty much all of these are (as well as Turmeric and SAMe). I can't find any info that helps me understand why, and how I might be able to overcome it to make some of these things work for me.

Other supplements:
Magnesium citrate - seemed to make my burns slightly better but taking on off days gives me horrible bathroom issues. And lately I noticed I was getting foggy brain 2-3 hours after taking so I've gone down to 2 days a week (the days I take kratom)
Vitamin D3 - I started taking this last winter and it really helped me get though SAD. I take it except on days I take kratom because I'm told the D3 can eliminate the effectiveness of Magnesium
B-Complex - Super helpful, no down effects
Vitamin C - Started taking this recently as I started taking kratom a little too frequently (normally take 2x a week, was going up to 4x) and started getting very mild W/D symptoms. I read somewhere that Vitamin C can help ease those symptoms...not sure if its true but I started taking the day after kratom
Theanine - Saw no benefits to taking this, and got horrible brain fog whenever I took
Omega 3 Fish Oils - Can't say what effect this had as I started taking along with the uridine, alas I stopped taking it when I stopped taking uridine
Phenlypiracetam - Saw no negatives here, did give me some energy, made colors brighter. Overall I liked it but havent bought any more in some time.

I'd like to try adrafinil, kava kava and kanna at some point.

[herbalhippie]

Aside from just the general health benefits of taking a magnesium supplement daily, I like the additional reduction in my Kratom tolerance. Plus the magnesium helps muscles relax!


(Apologies for the low quality post but in need to get my replies up lol)

after I started taking magnesium I was surprised to find out that it helped with depression I wasn't even aware that I had!

[JerseyBoy]

Theanine thank you for all this great info. A little overwhelmed personally but I plan on getting cats claw today and taking it nightly a few hours after my last dose. I also plan on getting some of smileys s&v. Anyone have a solid plan with S&V I should follow? I dose around 7 grams