Thoughts on phenibut?

[beathappening]

You can get "high" off huge doses of gabapentin. You really have to take 10-15 times a normal dose though. It's a unique weird feeling, stimulating and anxiolytic simultaneously. Probably vaguely like phenibut. It's not very good, just proof that people will take anything in the pursuit of getting fucked up. Like a poor man's benzo.

[BallzDeep9]

Oh this is wild... A Live Experiment here on MM with Relaxed Guy. Lets see... Monday 8:pm its now Tuesday Noon

OK by now you're sleeping SO HARD, I guess we won't hear anything for another 8 hours AT least... @ 1.5 grams you may SLEEP for 24 hours

Seriously 1 Gram of Phenibut is TOO much for me. And I'm a big guy... But I'm old, maybe a younger dude could handle it better. Just Remember before taking!! Phenibut IS 24-hours OR MORE... Seriously Don't take 1.5g Phenibut IF you need to wake up next morning.

Adding to beathappening's great info - Take Phenibut with a Straw. Bypass the teeth as much as possible!! One reason I prefer the more expensive, pure, F.A.A. version.. The HCL version is Hydrochloric Acid! Wash your mouth out immediately!!

F.A.A. can be taken sublingually.. There's a story on Reddit. A guy got confused & tried the HCL sublingually. Burned his tongue down to the roots and entire mouth covered in open bleeding sores... Oops. Bad Idea

[herbalhippie]

There's a story on Reddit. A guy got confused & tried the HCL sublingually. Burned his tongue down to the roots and entire mouth covered in open bleeding sores... Oops. Bad Idea

holy hell

[herbalhippie]

Interesting case history on treating phenibut withdrawals with baclofen


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3604470/

[The Relaxed Guy]

Yeah the phenibut experience definitely wasn’t spectacular or profound or anything. I’ve seen some reports that it’s the “best drug I’ve ever tried”, and so maybe I was expecting a bit too much, but it wasn’t like that for me.

Then again, I probably slept through the main, peak effects. I took it at 9PM and was asleep by 12AM, and slept til 7AM. I didn’t feel anything particularly noticeable in the 3 hours I was awake after taking 1.5g. I’ll have to try it in the morning, possibly at a dose closer to 2g, to get a better idea of the recreational effects.

Being said, I had one of the most restorative and restful sleeps in a long time. I woke up this morning with a very positive, motivated mindset - frankly I felt very good. I normally reach for my Kratom within minutes of waking up - but this morning I didn’t even have a desire to dose kratom until about 3 hours later.

It is worth noting that the positive mindset I woke up with lasted until around noon today. I felt more “alive”, in a sense.

I also noticed that my anxiety seemed to disappear, but not in a numbing way like benzos do. The anxiety just never even had a chance to start, because I was just doing things so automatically. I never stopped to overthink, or even consider anything I was doing - I just did it, and it came out well.

The anxiety relief was not “pleasurable”. It’s not like I could just be alone in my car and feel some pleasurable anxiolytic effects, like a benzo would give. It just manifested in the form of removing those extra brain processes I normally have. My thoughts didn’t have to pass through a dozen filters first, which often result in me saying nothing at all. I could simply say or do whatever came to my mind, and it was quite freeing.

All that being said, even those aforementioned anxiolytic effects were only present for the first few hours of the day, and they were subtle. There was no euphoria; no profound effects. I likely slept through these effects, if they occured at all, due to taking it 3 hours before bed. So I intend to take it in the morning next time, around 2g, to get a better feel for the “recreational”, peak effects.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Let me just clarify - I don’t want to make it sound like it wasn’t any good. I stupidly took it at night, and proceeded to sleep through the peak effects. So I shouldn’t say it wasn’t good, because I don’t really know.

All I really have to go by is the lingering effects I felt when I woke up this morning, and even then, there was a noticeable, pleasant feeling of positivity and anxiety relief. And having taken it before bed, I can say with absolute certainty that I did have a fantastic rest. I had a dream that I was flying a helicopter really low to the ground and Nancy Pelosi was driving under me telling me it’s illegal, but I was too scared to try and land it because I didn’t know how to fly a helicopter. So any night you have dreams like that is a good night.

All in all, I took the phenibut too late in the day to really provide a good first time use report. The little I have to go by - good sleep and morning anxiolytic effects - was positive. So I’ll say it shows promise.

I will try again Friday morning, at 2g, and report the experience here. Hopefully I’ll have a better report to provide that time around.

[BallzDeep9]

I took the phenibut too late in the day to really provide a good first time use report.

Yep. That's it exactly - Glad you woke up OK, at higher doses I've woke up groggy & went back asleep for 2 more hours!!

When I take Phenibut, a couple times per month.. I get up, carefully measure out 500 to 750 mg.. First Thing in the morning. Wash it down & rinse mouth. Wait at least 90 minutes.. before having breakfast!!

Now per usual wait another 90 min. after Breakfast and have my BIG kratom smoothie. It's a great combo!! You'll never, ever, get jitters or anxiety doing K+P together.. Do the most High Energy White you have. It's a long, lovely burn.. Fantastic for social activity. Euphoria of kratom, along with the calm mellow mood of Phenibut!

Phenibut works good, as part of any taper or tolerance Re-Set..

Phenibut is EXCELLENT for sleep - Best sleep aid I've ever had!!

[Oletimer]

Gabapentin, that brings back a nightmare of an experience, ,pain management dr. Prescribed me Gabapentin for nerve pain in the leg,,took it once,,my foot and leg swelled, called my primary care dr, ,I have kidney disease, Gabapentin can put you into kidney failure, if they are diseased, I was very upset with the pain m dr,,anyhow that was right before I found kratom and didn't need pain management injections anymore, ,it was a scary thing to happen though,,thank god I only took 1 pill

[herbalhippie]

Gabapentin, that brings back a nightmare of an experience, ,pain management dr. Prescribed me Gabapentin for nerve pain in the leg,,took it once,,my foot and leg swelled, called my primary care dr, ,I have kidney disease, Gabapentin can put you into kidney failure, if they are diseased, I was very upset with the pain m dr,,anyhow that was right before I found kratom and didn't need pain management injections anymore, ,it was a scary thing to happen though,,thank god I only took 1 pill

When that doc was pushing gabapentin on me, I came home and researched the hell out of it. I do with every new medication and occasionally, I will decline one. I declined gabapentin. I did accept a prescription for 300 mg capsules but I never took one. Still sitting in the medicine cabinet. I told him they made me feel drunk and I didn't like it. So he says well, I'll prescribe you some 100 mg ones then! How about NO?!?

[herbalhippie]

I experimented today.

After reading how baclofen was so similar to phenibut, I dig one out of the medicine cabinet and took it with my afternoon kratom dose.

I felt really nice for a couple hours. Mellow and happy, just nice. 2-3 hours later I started to feel a little woozy, like maybe I'd had a bit too much to drink. Tummy rolling a bit. So I laid down and fell asleep hard for about 3 hours. Woke up and felt like I'd had a couple cups of coffee but still a bit drunk too.

So. The experiment was interesting but definitely not something I'd want to do often. Or ever.

It was a 10 mg pill. According to that case study I looked at, 10 mg baclofen is equal to about 1 gram phenibut.

I guess I wasn't really paying attention to effects beyond muscular ones when I had that back injury.

[herbalhippie]

. I normally reach for my Kratom within minutes of waking up - but this morning I didn’t even have a desire to dose kratom until about 3 hours later.

Baclofen is being looked at as a treatment for alcohol (and other) addictions just for this reason. It seems to help with cravings. Phenibut would likely work the same since they're nearly the same substance.

[herbalhippie]

I'm about 4 or 5 hours short of having taken that baclofen 24 hours ago and I can still feel it.

[Oletimer]

I am so glad I seen this topic,,I was going to order some, my son said it might help his sister and I thought it might benefit me ,since it's compared, in a way,to xanax,,,but NO THANKS!! I have been on xanax over half my life,,and I already have that monkey on my back,,, I cut my doses during the day, but I can feel the physical withdrawals start after a 24 hr period, and I am too old to go thru recovery or whatever, ,phenibut would not be a good idea for someone like me,,and my daughter? NO WAY,,, she was on adderall years ago,and liked it,,,she might like phenibut too much,,,I give her a xanax about once a month,hormonal thing,,but that's it,,,phenibut sounds as bad as xanax,probably worse,,especially with addictive personality

[swablero]

I am so glad I seen this topic,,I was going to order some, my son said it might help his sister and I thought it might benefit me ,since it's compared, in a way,to xanax,,,but NO THANKS!! I have been on xanax over half my life,,and I already have that monkey on my back,,, I cut my doses during the day, but I can feel the physical withdrawals start after a 24 hr period, and I am too old to go thru recovery or whatever, ,phenibut would not be a good idea for someone like me,,and my daughter? NO WAY,,, she was on adderall years ago,and liked it,,,she might like phenibut too much,,,I give her a xanax about once a month,hormonal thing,,but that's it,,,phenibut sounds as bad as xanax,probably worse,,especially with addictive personality

Good call Oletimer Its the rare person who can get anything out of Phenibut. RelaxedGuy is very young and wants to see for himself and that's cool. You can get a way with a lot of thing in your 20s that would be dangerous if you're older. I think the bodyload of high dosage phenibut use is a showstopper when you are older. Plus a history with Benzos complicates the equation (though its Gaba A and B there is a cross tolerance in my experience) The only time Ive seen it used successfully long term was in low dosage low expectations situation. Tolerance inevitably explodes exponentially I wont even get into the psychological aspects. Beathappening;s posts hit the nail on the head. Also taking it for high stress situations doesnt work in the long run for various reasons. You have to deal with the underlying problem at some point and it will be that much harder having screwed your gaba system.

[Oletimer]

Yeap, I have heard of it before, but intuition made me hesitate, ,I wish I had known about kratom back in the day,,and I wouldn't have Xanax on my back,,,I don't even want a pill, the kratom helps the anxiety in a much better way,,,it's weird, I don't want it, but my body does,,,,,sometimes it is 24 hrs, ,sometimes longer and when I take it, it's not like I want to, ,but I have to, ,the symptoms are terrible, ,my gaba receptors are prisoners to xanax,,I'm living proof,,,back in the day,,doctors prescribed it like candy,,little did they know

[herbalhippie]

Holy crap this sounds terrifying


https://www.reddit.com/r/phenibut/wiki/ ... t-warnings


https://old.reddit.com/r/phenibut/comme ... ents_list/

[JerseyBoy]

I had a roommate who had Phenibut from Liftmode before, years ago, we took it like idiots around 8 PM, didn't feel much so we took more, kinda started to feel it after probably a way too big second dose. I remember waking up at 3 am and I was in a different f*cking UNIVERSE. I was slightly spinning and could not feel even a spec of reality, it was very intense, not enjoyable it actually freaked me out. The next day however I did not give a single f*ck about anything, which was nice. Then that went away, I did some research and my god i'll never touch that stuff again. I can see the positives for sure, but it isn't worth it. That stuff is serious if you get it from a legit source.

[herbalhippie]

Seriously 1 Gram of Phenibut is TOO much for me.

After a few days of research and a couple experiments, it frightens me that phenibut is sold OTC as a supplement and anyone can order it.

A lot of reading tells me that 1-10 mg bacolfen tablet is about equal to 1 gram of phenibut and a lot of people agree that the two are damn near identical in effects. 1-10 mg baclofen knocks me on my butt.

[Oletimer]

All these things, phenibut, bacolin,,,etc. Wow, ,be careful, ,I see a kidney dr twice a year,,he checks my renal function blood work to track the progression of my kidney disease, ,so far, I am still in stage 3,,at stage 4,,they prep you for dialysis, ,anyhow, I give him a list of any supplements, meds,etc.I take,,and gives me a heads up on what I shouldn't be taking, ,like those stackers 3,,buy otc,,,there's ingredients in it that makes your kidneys work harder,,,long term use of lot of those supplements can harm your kidneys,,the dr doesn't know what kratom is, ,but my function has improved since taking it,,so that's interesting, ,there should be more studies on Kratoms benefits,

[Gonzokat86]

Phenibut seems to effect some people worse than others. I take phenibut at 3.5 grams maybe once or twice a week and barely notice any effects. Anything over that and I start to fell a little messed up or sick. I haven’t noticed a single withdrawal from phenibut ever but a lot of people seem to have a hard time getting off it

[The Relaxed Guy]

I’m really fucking struggling with this stuff guys. It’s a different ball game when it comes to improving your quality of life... and if you have any self control issues, it’s very easy to get out of hand with it.

I’ve taken it 5 of the last 7 days.

Doses in the 1.5-2g range.

I literally become the man I’ve always needed to me. I’m better to be around, I’m more productive, I enjoy my life, I enjoy my job. I enjoy those meaningless conversations with people I usually avoid interacting with altogether.

I thought kratom was helping me? Jeez. Phenibut showed me how little Kratom actually does for me. It’s completely ruined kratom for me... but actually, this may be productive for cutting down my kratom intake. Maybe I’m just rationalizing my blatant over use of Phenibut these past few days... or maybe I really am benefiting from it. But man...

I went from being a 20+ grams daily kratom user (FOR 4 YEARS) to taking maybe 5g a day this week. The phenibut just completely annihilated the desire to dose kratom at all. I’ll even go all day wihout taking a single dose until bedtime. It’s INSANE. I’m so physically addicted to kratom (many of us are whether we acknowledge it or not)... and somehow my desire to consume it vanishes whilst on Phenibut.

How on earth a gaba b receptor agonist has the power to decrease your cravings for an OPIOID receptor agonist is beyond me... but it’s definitely the case. I didn’t even expect this to happen from phenibut. It’s just a natural side effect.

It’s the weirdest thing. I FEEL the Kratom withdrawals. I FEEL the RLS, I’ll be laying in bed FEELING the crawly skin. But... and I don’t know how to explain this to you... but I just... don’t. I feel the WDs, but the drive to actually physically grab my kratom, shovel a scoop into my mouth, and wash it down, disappears.

I do end up dosing, just for the sake of maintenance. Just for the sake of getting rid of the RLS. But it only takes maybe 3g of kratom to do so.

The phenibut just changes your psychology that much. It’s almost as if I’m a rare case of someone who is truly deficient in gaba. My mom is an alcoholic, has been since she was 14. She claims she stopped drinking whilst pregnant with me... but I truly have my doubts, knowing her and how addicted she is (she gets literally wasted everynight on that cheap boxed wine, she goes through at least 5 boxes a week). So perhaps I was born with some brain damage as a result of this. And perhaps the phenibut is alleviating whatever deficiency I was born with.

But that’s the weird thing... I don’t enjoy alcohol at all. I don’t really even enjoy benzos much (though I enjoy them more than alcohol, I could never become addicted). For some reason those “highs” don’t appeal to me. I actually genuinely (not trying to sound cool, or like some mature sober guy) dislike the effects of alcohol; it gives me RLS, I sleep poorly, I don’t like the physical intoxication, etc.

I’ve always preferred the opiate high. I actually always assumed opiates were that feeling I was born deficient in. The day I tried hydrocodone, I remember thinking “ahhh, so THIS is what other people feel like”. My whole life of sadness and self doubt suddenly got erased and I realized that opiates are what I’ve been missing. Long story short, I became dependent on pills, they lost their magic, and I ultimately ended up on a Kratom maintenance program for cost and health reasons.

But man... now I wonder if it really is opioid activity my brain is deficient in. After trying Phenibut... I feel like my actual self. Opiates just made me... high enough to enoy life, in a sense. Like they changed the way I perceive pain, and sadness, so that I’m less prone to negative emotion. And this had a positive impact pn my day to day life... but not in an organic way.

Phenibut though... it’s like an organic improvement. Yes, there’s high involved. Doses can make you euphoruc, sociable, physically comfortable, etc. But there’s an organic feel to it, like your true self has simply been UNLOCKED from the bonds of anxiety. Like the chains have been lifted. All the things that are inside you... the thoughts, behaviors and mannerisms locked deep inside which you suppress without realizing it... they come out on phenibut. Not in an intoxicating “what the fuck did I do lastnight” way like benzos and alcohol... but in a clear headed, nootropic way.

This rant should end right now. I’m gonna end up wasting an hour typing some long thing. Which, again, phenibut makes you do (I took like 1.9g this morning at 7:15 AM and it’s hitting me nicely now at 12:35PM).

To sum it up-

Yes, you guys were right. This shits no joke. It can be very addictive. And it’s not even worth dabbling with if you don’t have incredible levels of self control. (Sidenote, why do older people tend to have better self control than younger people? I’m 25 and feel like a completely impulsive moron when discussing any drug matters with 40+ year olds, especially 50+ year olds).

But, and I know this has been said by a million people a million times, the benefits are real. There is a fine line between benefiting from a drug, and getting consumed by a drug. But I do think it’s a worthwhile endeavor to test that line, and risk getting burned, if a drug truly is benefiting in your life in more than just some superficial way. If phenibut really is increasing your income, increasing your relationships, increasing the productivity of your pursuit to better understand yourself and those around you... it’s worth pushing the boundaries of safe use to maximize that benefit. But of course, when you push too far, those benefits mean nothing, and you’re better off never having started.

[The Relaxed Guy]

(Deleted)

[Oletimer]

It's that feeling, your description, ,of how easily addiction can get ya,,,5 times in 7 days,,,,yeap,,,I have took heroin 1 time,,early 70s, ,this was the real opiod,,guy brought it back from Vietnam with him,,I still remember the feeling,,and remember being thankful it was just a one time deal,,easily to like it too much,,,anyhow I wish you luck,,your young, now,but time catches up with you, ,

[herbalhippie]

I'm sorry, Relaxed Guy, but in my opinion, you need to stop right now while you're ahead. I'm concerned.

[beathappening]

Can't say I'm surprised. That's just what phenibut does to people. It's all downhill from here. Believe me, you don't want to find out first-hand how ineffably nightmarish phenibut physical withdrawal is. Don't try to justify your use to yourself, just quit.

[swablero]

Yeah older people have already learned the lesson you hopefully are about to learn. You have to go through it yourself unfortunately. You should go reread your original posts and see where you were and where you are now.

I think you are unconsciously rationalizing, creating a myth to justify taking this. It doesn't bring out the "real you". Your "self" is the same through time. What it does is it temporarily removes the nervous system from the equation. But its the same "you" in there. When peaking you feel good you feel free there is no consequence to anything. But its the same you as always but its you on a high dose of phenibut.

This physical and mental state is not sustainable. You cant incorporate this into your everyday life in a reasonable way long term. There are these incredible moments but they don't last. You cant hold on to it. Its the nature of time itself that you are up against. Have you ever freebased cocaine. You will never feel better than you feel for those precious few moments but before you can really understand it the feeling slips away. And you feel quite the opposite of how you felt a few moments earlier. You may try to get there again you may try to hold onto it, but you wont. The sooner you realize this essential fact the better.

Soon the uncomfortable rebound effect will start taking over your life. You don't get something for nothing. When this happens make sure you just stop. Kratom is a subtle thing. It's relatively meaningless in your Phen state. But hopefully when you need it the leaf will help you get over the inevitable crash. Good luck man!

[Oletimer]

SWABLERO,,,,,,,,,, so well stated,,,just hope relaxed guy has the wisdom to understand, from his post,,,the part of feeling better than ever,awakening? Well most of us didn't listen,learned the hard way,,,,I think we all know where this is going,and where it will end up, ,unbelievable it's legal, yet they go after kratom, ,more revenue in kratom ,phenibut, that's for those who have self control, strong will power,

[swablero]

SWABLERO,,,,,,,,,, so well stated,,,just hope relaxed guy has the wisdom to understand, from his post,,,the part of feeling better than ever,awakening? Well most of us didn't listen,learned the hard way,,,,I think we all know where this is going,and where it will end up, ,unbelievable it's legal, yet they go after kratom, ,more revenue in kratom ,phenibut, that's for those who have self control, strong will power,

Yeah Oletimer I hope Relaxed Guy takes a break from the phen to evaluate the situation and realizes what he's getting himself into.

[BallzDeep9]

Yeah Oletimer I hope Relaxed Guy takes a break from the phen to evaluate the situation and realizes what he's getting himself into.

I AGREE with this, and Hippie's concern too... STOP right now, dude !! Wake Up, you're 25.. Big Warning Signs were posted. You're stepping on the gas pedal, driving your car right PAST the Warning Signs and over the cliff.

This Forum can't be held responsible. Phenibut is sold legally... at the local head-shop. AT LEAST we tried to warn you!! Take Care of yourself man, GET some help if necessary, Check In to a Recovery place, hospital or your doctor's office.

[beathappening]

It's only been two weeks. If he stopped right now it wouldn't be that bad. He bought 100 grams, so no doubt he has a lot left. We all warned him this would happen, so I doubt he would listen us now when the temptation is right there. Even so, flush the shit now and your withdrawal will be minimal. You're not past the point of no return, yet.

We've done all we can. Some people just have to learn the hard way, myself included. Best of luck and hope you come back to update us.

[herbalhippie]

Hey, Relaxed Guy. Have you seen the Phenibut sub at Reddit?

There's some info in the sidebar you should check out.

https://old.reddit.com/r/phenibut/

[beathappening]

Also, I know this has already been posted here

r/quittingphenibut to see what others have already gone through. You're definitely not alone. I've seen guys doing 70 grams a day. It gets dark.

[BallzDeep9]

You're definitely not alone. I've seen guys doing 70 grams a day. It gets dark.

BIG difference, kratom won't kill ya... Not so sure about Phenibut?

Think about it. There ARE fates worst than death.. Permanent damage to internal organs ? Imagine your kidneys shot at Age 30, being hooked up to an Iron Lung, or Dialysis Machine.. Or worse, brain damage...

Ain't No Fun in an Iron Lung
I can't get fucked even though I'm hung,
Ain't No Fun in an Iron Lung
A plastic tube takes away my dung

[gravystainonmyshirt]

RelaxedGuy is probably ReallyRelaxedGuy now lol, until he stops the phenibut. Hope he stops cuz those GABA receptors scream when they stop getting artificially stimulated. Mu Opioid receptors are not as painful as regular receptors but still, kratom withdrawal is no joke either. I would taper way down on either kratom or phenibut before stopping completely

[The Relaxed Guy]

Howdy ya’ll.

So the days of consecutive use definitely got a bit reckless and out of hand. In all, I used it for 9 of 11 days.

I’m on day 3 of no phenibut. I can say there are no withdrawals at this point aside from an extremely delusional nightmareish state for the first couple hours of trying to fall asleep. I don’t really know how to explain it, but there is the oddest sense of fear, I’ve never felt it before.

Nonetheless, during the day I’m fine and I think I’m out of the woods here.

[herbalhippie]

I’m on day 3 of no phenibut.

Ok good! And I hope you're going to have many more days of no phenibut and then only OCCASIONAL use after that, IF AT ALL.

done scolding

[swablero]

Howdy ya’ll.

So the days of consecutive use definitely got a bit reckless and out of hand. In all, I used it for 9 of 11 days.

I’m on day 3 of no phenibut. I can say there are no withdrawals at this point aside from an extremely delusional nightmareish state for the first couple hours of trying to fall asleep. I don’t really know how to explain it, but there is the oddest sense of fear, I’ve never felt it before.

Nonetheless, during the day I’m fine and I think I’m out of the woods here.

Nice to hear from you Relaxed Guy! I think more than a few of us were concerned even through the anonymity and indirection of a forum we see you as a real person and were worried as you were playing with fire. But you seemed to have reemerged nicely so that's excellent. Look forward to hearing from you!

[Oletimer]

I am glad too, to see you back,,this whole topic, ,was terrifying, ,fear for those who tread in these waters,,my son is taking it now,,head shop stuff,comes in a can,drink,,,I think he just recently picked it up,,there are warnings on the back of the can,,but things are stressful right now,,I told him to check out this topic,,and Brush his teeth!, I don't remember how many days he's drank this, ,I believe just since Friday or Saturday, ,canned phenibut drinks,,wtf,,I just found out,,so I am just worried, ,,concerned,,,I thought this topic would be of interest, ,hope he reads it,,and my daughter in law too!! In case they do read this,,mom loves you! !

[beathappening]

Not sure if anyone is paying attention to the news in the past week, but the US is now in a trade war with China. The stock market is tanking. Farmers are getting screwed. We can expect a lot of things to rise in price, including iPhones, food, and clothes. Also exported by China? Phenibut. We may soon see a sharp increase in its price and/or a drop in availability. Just a thought.

[gravystainonmyshirt]

I read a bit more on it and if you take it no more than twice a week, or just once a week you should be fine. My buddy bought 2 kilos of it , lol, ima trade him some kratom for some and report back on how it is.