Has there been a major shift in the industry?

[SirSkitzo]

As of lately I've been purchasing kratom from a lot of different vendors to try and see who I like the most. This started because I periodically purchased in bulk for quite some time from one particular vendor. They were great to work with compared to the vendors I've used before them, but the last time I placed an order their product had a drastic shift in quality; which is a lot more apparent when you're a regular consumer. They shipped me a replacement order to try and make up for it, but same experience. It was clear they switched supplier or something.

During this period of time, we found an old bag we set aside a while back and tried some of it and, even though it was the same product, it was next level. It lasted long way longer and was much more euphoric. Thinking back, it was never readily apparent but it seemed like the quality was slowly changing over time and we didn't realize it until this point in time. The best way to describe it would be like comparing it to the 'boiling frog syndrome' analogy. Whether this is what was going on or not I can't say with certainty, but it was at this point we started to look for new vendors of WMD capsules; which is what we've always purchased.

As of today, we've purchased from probably 10 different vendors (mainly found through Reddit comments) and out of those 10 probably 2 of them were the only ones worth buying from again. We started comparing the lab reports and checking MIT and 7HO levels for each order, and none of them compare to the old batch that we set aside. This mixed with Kratom being in almost every corner store now along with 7HO extract pills, etc. It's hard to say without truly knowing the industry, but it really makes me wonder if it could be one of the following.

1. Rushing the drying process
2. Over harvesting, harvesting younger plants (not sure how age effects quality, if at all?)
3. A new corporate dominance over the agriculture of kratom. (big kratom?)

I'm wondering if we're just crazy or if others that have experience with kratom for some time have noticed this as well?

[Madvillain626]

Over harvesting is definitely a problem, simple supply and demand. Not to say there weren't bad batches and grifters selling big batch kratom ten years ago, but it wasn't as hard to find a truly fire batch. More up and comers with their own flavor and way of doing things. I haven't found a vendor I like since DTE three years ago. Just buy from them and TFH at the moment.

Not sure if the new regulations have an effect on the final product.

[mivanqua]

Can't put my finger on what, but something's different.

Haven't come across a red with that old school funky sour smell in a while, and that definitely makes me wonder. Last thing I came across with that smell was well before regulations were enacted:

https://ibb.co/kgvp33Yv

It could be any number of things, and not all of them are conspiratorial.... but some of them are....

[BallzDeep9]

During this period of time, we found | an old bag we set aside a while back | and tried some of it and, even though it was the same product, it was next level. It lasted long way longer and was much more euphoric. Thinking back, it was never readily apparent but it seemed like the quality was slowly changing over time and we didn't realize it until this point in time.

.... I'm wondering if we're just crazy or if others that have experience with kratom for some time have noticed this as well?

Nope you're not crazy, just observing what many of us have seen and followed, over the past 5 years... "All of the Above" you wrote is correct. PLUS:

USA "Big Kratom" AKA Profiteers, forced changes: A huge Price Drop a few years ago, (Max Price per Kilo, even for 1000 Kg and up!) was CUT in half !! with a "Take It or Leave It" attitude... How did the Indonesian Farmers respond ?? By cutting Quality... dropping bulk "crumbs" price to Harvesters, who were told basically - We're paying for ANY "Green Plant Matter" you can grab... NO need to be selective for "Speciosa" on Wild Harvest... Go ahead and grab Javanica, Hirsuta, and other plants containing ZERO Mitragynine... And Yes, harvest young Plantation Leaf that's not mature plants (Lower MIT% content) - it ALL looks the same when mixed together in pile of crumbs!

[ausamo2000]

I have not had any of that really bitter leaf in what feels like forever. I miss it. I always knew when that taste was around, I was about to have some fire leaf. I have had a few batches that kind of had the taste but nothing like what it used to be like. I also got some weird tasting leaf a few times this year so far. The weirdest one being some white strain from new dawn kratom. The craziest part is I was given this leaf for free to try out and then after i told them what the leaf tasted like, they didnt say anything back to me. Not even a "we will look into this". This stuff had a STRONG taste of cough medicine. I know that leaf will taste different from batch to batch but in all my 11 years of using kratom, I never had anything come close to what this junk tasted like. Literally like they just poured in a bottle of cough medicine and then sent it to me. I forget exactly what strain it was and I hate to be mean to a company who handed out a generous sample like they did but dam. I wonder if anyone else might have had a similar situation or not. I havnt seen anyone else say anything about it except me though.

[Madvillain626]

I have not had any of that really bitter leaf in what feels like forever. I miss it. I always knew when that taste was around, I was about to have some fire leaf. I have had a few batches that kind of had the taste but nothing like what it used to be like. I also got some weird tasting leaf a few times this year so far. The weirdest one being some white strain from new dawn kratom. The craziest part is I was given this leaf for free to try out and then after i told them what the leaf tasted like, they didnt say anything back to me. Not even a "we will look into this". This stuff had a STRONG taste of cough medicine. I know that leaf will taste different from batch to batch but in all my 11 years of using kratom, I never had anything come close to what this junk tasted like. Literally like they just poured in a bottle of cough medicine and then sent it to me. I forget exactly what strain it was and I hate to be mean to a company who handed out a generous sample like they did but dam. I wonder if anyone else might have had a similar situation or not. I havnt seen anyone else say anything about it except me though.

I tried some of the White MD from New Dawn. I don't recall a cough medicine taste but it was weak IMO so I put it away.

[ausamo2000]

I have not had any of that really bitter leaf in what feels like forever. I miss it. I always knew when that taste was around, I was about to have some fire leaf. I have had a few batches that kind of had the taste but nothing like what it used to be like. I also got some weird tasting leaf a few times this year so far. The weirdest one being some white strain from new dawn kratom. The craziest part is I was given this leaf for free to try out and then after i told them what the leaf tasted like, they didnt say anything back to me. Not even a "we will look into this". This stuff had a STRONG taste of cough medicine. I know that leaf will taste different from batch to batch but in all my 11 years of using kratom, I never had anything come close to what this junk tasted like. Literally like they just poured in a bottle of cough medicine and then sent it to me. I forget exactly what strain it was and I hate to be mean to a company who handed out a generous sample like they did but dam. I wonder if anyone else might have had a similar situation or not. I havnt seen anyone else say anything about it except me though.

I tried some of the White MD from New Dawn. I don't recall a cough medicine taste but it was weak IMO so I put it away.

I just looked at the bag and I was sent the white Thai. I only toss and wash with water and have been my entire kratom career so I have a good idea of the taste of all the leaf I have tried. I get some weird tasting ones every once in a while but nothing has ever came close to this leaf. It taste so bad that its the only time ever that I stopped using a bag of leaf. Usually I will still even finish off weak batches as I like to use them as inbetween doses so that my next dose of stronger leaf will work better. The leaf its self wasnt that great, I would say 5/10. something I would have definitely used as an inbetween does if not for that taste that makes it taste toxic.

[e_poison]

This stuff had a STRONG taste of cough medicine.

I've never tried New Dawn, but I've had kratom with that strong type of "cough medicine taste" you're describing. Once you said that, it unlocked that memory for me lol. I can't remember which vendor it was. I've had the full gauntlet of flavors from that smooth, fresh almost grass-like tasting leaf all the way to extremely bitter leaf that makes the tongue curl.

[ausamo2000]

I've never tried New Dawn, but I've had kratom with that strong type of "cough medicine taste" you're describing. Once you said that, it unlocked that memory for me lol. I can't remember which vendor it was. I've had the full gauntlet of flavors from that smooth, fresh almost grass-like tasting leaf all the way to extremely bitter leaf that makes the tongue curl.

You're the only person i have met whos also had leaf with that taste to it. Do you remember if you finished that batch or tossed it as well? My favorite leaf flavor is definitely the leaf that has a strong sweet banana flavor to it. I find that it only shows up in fresher leaf. The first time I tasted it was with some leaf I got from my very first order with okies in like 2020. I dont get that flavor too often but I just got a new kg from west koast and a 1/4th kg from DTE so I am excited to have more of that on hand I have definitely had the full gauntlet of flavors as well and I still run into new flavors every now and again and its actually something I look forward to, even if the new flavor isnt the best haha.

The only other leaf that I got that sticks out as of more recently is some leaf I got from Harvest. I seen so many people taking about how good they were and even had someone dm me about them so I gave them a try and got a 4 way split kg as all the talk made me confident in their leaf before even trying it and that was definitely a mistake. The leaf I got from them was the most dry and course leaf that I have ever tried. Every single strain that I got from them. One was so bad that it was getting caught in the back of my throat when trying to toss and wash it and I had to sip on water for about a minute afterwards to get it all unstuck. Im not sure if you have tried them but with everything everyone said about them, it makes me feel crazy as it also gave me no effects either and when I said something about it, everyone else said they didnt notice what I did. I was sticking to kd and okies mostly for the past 2 years and im venturing off again and I am glad that I have because there are some really good vendors out there right now that I never tried before. I tend to stick to 2-3 vendors for about 1-2 years and then switch it up a bit and im currently in the end of my switch up. I think my new rotation will be DTE, west koast and Smiley for a while. Still wish I could try Texas Family but idk if ill ever be able to lol