Kratom suddenly causing horrendous BO?

[alakaashoosta]

I've been taking kratom on and off since 2008 in every kind of configuration. In the last few years, I had been taking it daily for the most part, up to 15 or so gpd. Practically no issues.

A few years ago, I started drinking pretty large quantities of alcohol along with the daily kratom and eventually developped a very strange body odor that fits to a T the description of fetor hepaticus. This is the stench that people get when their liver is failing. I eventually stopped drinking alcohol (but stayed on the kratom) and it went away. All good.


Now fast forward to a few weeks ago and I started taking kratom again (after a several month break) at a relatively low dosage (around 9gpd) and quickly developped the exact same body odor as when I was drinking only way, way worse this time. Mind you, I now don't drink alcohol and have not for months. Noticing the smell, I cut the kratom dosage down even lower (about 3gpd) and it actually kept getting worse, seemingly daily.

This is not regular body odor. The smell is extremely intense and it smells on every part of my body as soon as it starts sweating. It stays in the clothes and doesn't go away even after washing them numerous times. No amount of soaps or deodorant or essential oils covers it up or makes it go away. The moment I step out of the shower I start to reek the moment I sweat to any degree. It does NOT smell like regular BO, but more like a sickingly sweet, musty and pungeant smell. I can also 100% taste it in my saliva as it feels like the same change has occured there. It matches exactly the description of fetor hepaticus but I have nothing to reference it with.

No other changes in my diet except the kratom when this issue came about. Ironically I also take (and have for years) a few liver support supplements (livercare, nac, etc.) but discontinuing them made no difference either.

I consulted a doctor (or rather a nurse as they did not consider my case to be serious I guess) and she confirmed she could smell it on me and that it was a strong smell but pretty much entirely dismissed my concerns that it may be a liver issue as my labwork from a few weeks ago (around when it all started) was normal (although I was taking all of my liver support supplements at the time of blood draw so maybe the result is not accurate) and that I did not have any other symptoms except much more fatigue than usual. I insisted that it may be a late onset of hepatitis or some other issue of the liver and asked at least for a hepatitis blood test or scan of the liver as I had quite a few issues with this organ in previous years including pain during the times I was drinking. She again dismissed this. She said she would talk with a doctor and get back to me as there "might be some kind of soap" that could help. I tried again to get her to understand that I tried all kinds of soaps and they make absolutely no difference and it is beyond what any kind of cleaning item can help with. I don't get it because all I would need is simply an experienced doctor who is familiar with the smell of liver or kidney failure to say if it is the same or not. The nurse had no experience with this. She will give me an update by phone later next week and thats it.

Today is my first day off of the kratom to see if it is indeed causing this issue. I am incredibly sad because it has been a lifesaver for me all these years when nothing else worked and it had caused me practically no issues. Actually, I am at a point in my life where I need it now more than ever. However, I cannot overemphasize how bad and intense this odor is and it is putting me at risk of losing my job and housing so I have no choice. However the strange thing is why would it suddenly do this after so many years without issues? There have been no changes in variables. I did a search and this seems to be uncommon with kratom except potentially when coming off of it so I am at a loss. What do you guys think?

Update: I went off kratom for 3 days and the smell dimished to some degree but did not go away, unfortunately. I had to go back on kratom because I simply can't function without it at this point in my life.

The other variable may be that I am using a brand that is not the usual one that I use that may not be of the best quality. But how the heck do I account for never having any kind of issues for so many years and now this all of a sudden?

Also, I did carnivore diet for a few days to see if it made any difference and it didn't. Chlorophyll doesn't help either. I will try molybdenum and manganese next to see if its some kind of sulphur processing issue. What do you guys think? Update: molybdenum has no positive effect either. Nothing's working and I am feeling hopeless. This has kicked my already severe depression up yet another notch. Doctors are simply not taking me seriously.. This entire experience has been deeply traumatizing as I can't overemphasize how incredibly strong the stench is and how quickly it comes on right after I shower. I smell it on me constantly and I taste it always in my saliva. I just don't know how I am going to endure yet another day at work like this. Please, any help would be appreciated.

[anonk]

I would get blood work done to have your liver checked out, some times I smell chlorophyll in my sinuses but that is about it.

[alakaashoosta]

Like I said in my post I had a basic liver panel done at the time the issue began and the results are normal although I was taking several liver support supplements that may have artifically made the result better than it would have otherwise. Doctor refuses to give me another blood test. I appreciate your reply though.

I would get blood work done to have your liver checked out, some times I smell chlorophyll in my sinuses but that is about it.

[Kelleytoons]

Wow. Not sure I can be of ANY help but I sure feel for you.

And I don't want to get political at all but - are you in some kind of health care state? Because here in the U.S. I would not put up with this - I would find a doctor to make this right. You have that right (well, at least here in the U.S.). The BS you're being told is not acceptable and while an unusual problem like this CAN be dismissed by even the majority of health care specialists there's no way you can't find someone to take you seriously (but, again, if you're living somewhere where you don't have that option I'm not sure what to tell you). We had to go to four different doctors for my wife's health issue until we finally found someone who could provide the right treatment but we did not stop until we got the answers we needed.

And while I'm no doctor (although - truthfully - I HAVE played one on television :>) something has clearly changed with your chemistry and that's going to be hard to track down as it seems you've eliminated the usual suspects. I doubt it's kratom related, which is all any of us here can help you with. My advice (again, leaving aside for a moment you ought to get in person professional help) is to visit sites that might have help. I'm POSITIVE if you do a Google search you'll find some forum, somewhere, where they discuss EXACTLY these kinds of issues (I'd start with "body order", "body chemistry change", etc. to start with, and then find forums where others have had this problem). You absolutely cannot be alone in this situation.

[alakaashoosta]

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

I am in Canada. I have indeed scoured every source I can over these last few weeks and have unfortunately come up with nothing. There is very little information probably due to this being a rare occurance. Most people with similar issues experience stronger BO, but this does not smell at all like regular body odor.

All of the clues I do indeed have (that the last time I had this odor I was drinking alcohol, that the smell matches the description of liver failure, my extreme fatigue and abdomen pains, etc.) point to live failure. Yet, just because ONE lab result that was taken only when the smell was still mild was normal, it was ruled out by her and she ignored the numerous times I asked for more tests.

I will see what she says when I talk to her next week but unless she approves of more testing my only other option is to seek private testing which I can't afford or go to the emergency room where I either not going to be taken seriously and will be sent back or will have to wait there several days before being seen by anyone which I can't do because I have to work.

Like I said the easiest, quickest and least expensive way to diagnose this would be simply for me to consult with someone who is familiar with the smell of fetor hepaticus (liver failure smell) and they would be able to tell me instantly if it is the same smell or not. Surely I would not be asking too much if I make this one request to the nurse???

I just tried a medical grade antibacterial soap and again, 5 minutes out of the shower the smell is coming on as strong as ever, so as I thought, it likely has nothing to do with bacteria. Massive amounts of tea tree oil have no effect either.

Wow. Not sure I can be of ANY help but I sure feel for you.

And I don't want to get political at all but - are you in some kind of health care state? Because here in the U.S. I would not put up with this - I would find a doctor to make this right. You have that right (well, at least here in the U.S.). The BS you're being told is not acceptable and while an unusual problem like this CAN be dismissed by even the majority of health care specialists there's no way you can't find someone to take you seriously (but, again, if you're living somewhere where you don't have that option I'm not sure what to tell you). We had to go to four different doctors for my wife's health issue until we finally found someone who could provide the right treatment but we did not stop until we got the answers we needed.

And while I'm no doctor (although - truthfully - I HAVE played one on television :>) something has clearly changed with your chemistry and that's going to be hard to track down as it seems you've eliminated the usual suspects. I doubt it's kratom related, which is all any of us here can help you with. My advice (again, leaving aside for a moment you ought to get in person professional help) is to visit sites that might have help. I'm POSITIVE if you do a Google search you'll find some forum, somewhere, where they discuss EXACTLY these kinds of issues (I'd start with "body order", "body chemistry change", etc. to start with, and then find forums where others have had this problem). You absolutely cannot be alone in this situation.

[Kelleytoons]

Ah, yes, Canada (a LOT of misguided people here in the U.S. think state-funded healthcare is what they want. But most of my Canadian friends envy the kind of care that *I* have, which I got by working for 30 years).

My wife went through a TON of liver tests (long story but they thought she had cirrhosis despite her not drinking alcohol at all. Eventually turned out to be an heredity condition that is SO rare she will be in the AMA Journal next year) but I can only imagine if we were in Canada they never would have found the issue. But - let's try and be more helpful. Let's stipulate that if someone familiar with the condition you surmise could indeed tell from your smell - can you find ANYONE online that can do this? (And, of course, be someone you could get to). If it's that simple (I mean, the smell test) perhaps even paying for it yourself is a possibility. At the very least you could rule that condition out.

While it's not quite the same I do know what it's like to be faced with an extremely rare condition - it's SO frustrating. I'll keep praying you find the answer (and the relief).

[IndelibleDotInk]

Excellent symptom, the smell. It should really help finding your diagnosis. Fight with the docs to research, and jump on any specialist.

That's about all I can offer, the importance of body smell. I do keto (ketosis, not ketoacidosis) and when it's really going strong, I smell like ammonia, so far as tasting it too.

Best of luck.

[e_poison]

And while I'm no doctor (although - truthfully - I HAVE played one on television :>)

I feel there's a story that needs to be told here.

[Kelleytoons]

And while I'm no doctor (although - truthfully - I HAVE played one on television :>)

I feel there's a story that needs to be told here.

LOL - when you live as long as I have you have LOTS of stories. The TL:DR version is that for a while I was on local television (as I always used to say to my wife, I'll make you world famous in Carson City. I was world famous in the Reno-Carson City area :>). I had a live talk show, a half hour weekly comedy anthology, and a "whose line is it anyway?" takeoff. WAY too much TV work for any sane person (luckily I've never been particularly sane).

[e_poison]

LOL - when you live as long as I have you have LOTS of stories. The TL:DR version is that for a while I was on local television (as I always used to say to my wife, I'll make you world famous in Carson City. I was world famous in the Reno-Carson City area :>). I had a live talk show, a half hour weekly comedy anthology, and a "whose line is it anyway?" takeoff. WAY too much TV work for any sane person (luckily I've never been particularly sane).

Wow, that's really cool! Anywhere to watch any of these on Youtube? How did you get into TV?

[Kelleytoons]

Well, I don't want to get too OT here but my YouTube channel is always a good place to start (our animated TV series that was optioned by Fox - we were *this* close to being on the air and then they went with a little show called "Bob's Burgers" - is on there, mostly. And some things from the television I've done over the years, although I have never tried to put even a small portion because I just made WAY too many hours. But it can give you some ideas - look at my animations playlist (there are two) and maybe even some of my video playlist):

https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeDKelley

[Tussenbroek]

I've been taking kratom on and off since 2008 in every kind of configuration. In the last few years, I had been taking it daily for the most part, up to 15 or so gpd. Practically no issues.

A few years ago, I started drinking pretty large quantities of alcohol along with the daily kratom and eventually developped a very strange body odor that fits to a T the…

Bruh.. Fuxin’ same!!! That’s actually why I came back around to this forum to check in with everybody and see what everyone thinks.

It started for me a few months ago, let’s say 5-6? Not going to name names as the vendor I got it from has been super reliable, great shipping times + prices etc., but it took me a moment to figure out what was going on and I legit switched vendors because I finally isolated it down to it being the kratom causing my smell!! So onto vendor two who I’ve used before and is also very reliable.. all seems well at first.. but I notice now it’s still the same effect, though just milder than it was before.

I’ve also inexplicably gained 10-15 lbs in this same time span despite changing basically nothing about my diet. I have copious amounts of Dexedrine + caffeine + nicotine each day - I’ve had a pretty stable weight for about 2-3 years, and if anything over the last 3 months I’ve been way crazy more busy and should be at worst weight neutral! Side note, I remember a span back in winter/spring 2017 from Gaia when he was a thing where inexplicable weight gain + a few post on Reddit with same concern, which, again, could be nothing, but I legitimately feel like there’s a pang of something off in the bulk batches that has me a little whatever, kind up about it as it just tends to burrow into your brain like, “what are they treating these plantations with?” “Are there any hormone effects that tend mostly to be mild or muted, but as of late have been expressing themselves more heavily?” I know it has a wide, wide range of downstream effects, but might just attempt to create batch of extract/order some to eliminate the bulk leaf variable for at the very least the smell.

[BallzDeep9]

Well... I was gonna suggest Reddit as the "Knowledge Base" of r/Kratom - with > 100,000 people and Ten years of reports. And... I see you've already posted there. Yes ? Twice in fact. 22 and 25 days ago ? And... Nobody. There is almost NOT ONE single report ... of kratom causing any "Body Odor" from 10 years and 100K people.

Sorry but it must be the alcohol ? You CAN get Lab tests done independently - Find your local Labcorp location - https://www.labcorp.com/ - Or other similar ones. Unless you live way out in the middle of nowhere, there's a Lab near you.

Finally you said something about pain in your abdomen ? That's maybe a very bad sign... Ulcer ? Does it feel like a stomach Ulcer ? Go back to Reddit. Search = Pylori. that's a bad bacteria common on 3rd world countries and sadly... Common among people who EAT Raw kratom powder dirt from the Indonesia jungle without boiling it first... I've been shouting "Toss N Wash Is Stupid" for the past 7 years and... people are still stupid. Search Reddit on "Stomach Ulcer". 100's of reports and most don't even realize it's H. Pylori

Anyway s long story short after a month of misery I went to the dr.. I also would like to mention I sent the kratom I had to lab near my house to be tested. The results of my appointment came back and I tested positive for both h pylori along with ulcers. Well guess what the kratom I got tested also had h pylori and another unknown bacteria. So my advice to anyone who gets sick on this strain go get antibiotics and throw out this bad batch. https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/3vdbka/beware/

[Kelleytoons]

I’ve also inexplicably gained 10-15 lbs in this same time span despite changing basically nothing about my diet.

This alone is a big red flag - unexpected weight gain/loss is ALWAYS something you need to check out with a doctor (could be benign or VERY serious but in any case is NOT something you want to wait on. Just make an appointment and let them check you out).

[BallzDeep9]

Also, I did carnivore diet for a few days to see if it made any difference and it didn't. Chlorophyll doesn't help either. I will try molybdenum and manganese next to see if its some kind of sulphur processing issue. What do you guys think? Update: molybdenum has no positive effect either. Nothing's working and I am feeling hopeless. This has kicked my already severe depression up yet another notch. Doctors are simply not taking me seriously.. This entire experience has been deeply traumatizing as I can't overemphasize how incredibly strong the stench is and how quickly it comes on right after I shower.

TWO things.... #1 a "Carnivore Diet" ?? You're eating lots and lots of... Meat ?? sure seems like that would be a cause. Especially if you're way overweight, like obese. It's pretty well known or assumed, that Red Meat eaters stink - and Vegetarian types don't ? Just basic common sense there.

But my MAIN suggestion for you ? Use the A.I. tool, now available through Google or Microsoft. Chat GPT in Google ( I haven't used personally but have heard it's amazing ), I have used the MS Copilot which is built into their Edge browser... you have a PC computer, yes ? Open Edge... or install that. its free. Right across the top, Menu links are: Bing (Microsoft's Search engine), and "Search" link, and Copilot, and Notebook (whatever that is ?) - Click the Copilot.

It's a Search engine with space to type your Question. It's REAL "Artificial Intelligence" and... it pulls information from the whole Internet... which is great for Medical advice. I was asking about some Urology issues, Prostate surgery and stuff. It does come back with very detailed answers. It gives you choices. And it makes related suggestions... Ask "What are some possible causes for excessive body odor" ??

[e_poison]

Well, I don't want to get too OT here but my YouTube channel is always a good place to start (our animated TV series that was optioned by Fox - we were *this* close to being on the air and then they went with a little show called "Bob's Burgers" - is on there, mostly. And some things from the television I've done over the years, although I have never tried to put even a small portion because I just made WAY too many hours. But it can give you some ideas - look at my animations playlist (there are two) and maybe even some of my video playlist):

https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeDKelley

Apologies, I didn't see this reply. I'm going to check this out!

[ijustlivetruth]

Also, I did carnivore diet for a few days to see if it made any difference and it didn't. Chlorophyll doesn't help either. I will try molybdenum and manganese next to see if its some kind of sulphur processing issue. What do you guys think? Update: molybdenum has no positive effect either. Nothing's working and I am feeling hopeless. This has kicked my already severe depression up yet another notch. Doctors are simply not taking me seriously.. This entire experience has been deeply traumatizing as I can't overemphasize how incredibly strong the stench is and how quickly it comes on right after I shower. I smell it on me constantly and I taste it always in my saliva. I just don't know how I am going to endure yet another day at work like this. Please, any help would be appreciated.

If I may ask, how long were you taking the chlorophyll, and how much were you taking?

I immediately thought to suggest taking this in liquid form when I started reading your post. This seems to have helped a lot of people, I was looking into it a while back for my niece. She eats a ton of sugary food and drinks and I think that's the main reason why she has a lot of b.o.

From what I've gathered, the people recommend taking chlorophyll immediately upon waking, and larger amounts than it suggests on the bottle. They have the mint stuff and from what I've read, you can't really overdo it on dosing as long as you start fairly slow, like 1tsp in the morning and then another one at night. Then slightly increasing it by like 1/2 a teaspoon. People seem to claim that it can take a couple or a few weeks to notice an effect.

I take a few teaspoons of the mint flavored kind in the morning sometimes a little before my kratom. This can also help with bowel movements if you ever run into that issue.

Also, on the carnivore diet, were the meats you were eating grassfed, and were you also eating the fats?

How much pasta do you eat?

Sometimes the noodles, if your eating them often can really mess up the body. I don't know the details of exactly why they can, but I was having some severe issues with tooth decay and now I rarely eat pasta. I was making some kind of noodle dish usually at least once a week and eating the leftovers for at least another day. My teeth were literally falling apart, one of my molars just basically disintegrated when I was eating a non toasted sub, and over the next few years, every so often I'd just feel a tiny piece of a tooth in my mouth.

I know this post isn't about teeth, but figured I'd throw my experience out there.

I've completely fixed my teeth, I can even eat those super hard Schneider pretzel pieces now and I haven't broke a tooth in almost 4 years.

I would maybe suggest avoiding noodles for a few weeks if it's something you eat often.

I am eating a variation of that diet, but I'm not completely strict about it and it really does seem like this could help, especially in combination with the chlorophyll.

At the very least, I'd suggest taking chlorophyll for like a full month in possibly larger amounts twice a day if you haven't, and see where that gets you.

Hope you can get this all figured out