BM and Kratom

[Kelleytoons]

So things haven't been hitting very well for me the last three or four days - haven't changed anything (still dosing around 2 grams), and going through my rotation (almost two month rotation nowadays) so I just chalked it up to "that's the way it is sometimes" but I've been rather constipated during that same period of time, which is unusual for me (the holidays always play havoc with my regularity, however).

Last night... well, without TMI let's just say I had a great BM that cleaned me out almost entirely. Right before I went to bed (interesting fact I learned recently - around 11pm your body stops the cycle so it's almost impossible to "go" after that, unless there is something really wrong).

This morning I got up and, again, in my regular rotation dosed with three TFH Imperial MD capsules and 1 capsule New Dawn Green Malay (almost exactly 2 grams total) and... wow. Seems like the BEST kratom I've ever had.

Which of course is not true, but what IS true is it just strengthens my firm believe that having clean bowels is ESSENTIAL to the kratom experience. I don't know for sure if the opioids are processed in the bowels but it sure seems like any obstruction there means the processing doesn't work properly. And that being constipated will remove much if not all of that experience. Obviously YMMV but I've found this so consistently that I take it as gospel (still another reason I do a LOT of things to remain regular).

Anyway, really enjoying my morning kratom experience. I think at the very least if you have become constipated and kratom isn't hitting for you you need to at least explore getting cleaned out because that might just be the total problem.

[Joshgreenhorn]

I have found this to be very true as well. I've always heard it's because there are opioid receptors in the gastrointestinal tract.

[Nelson Baboon]

So things haven't been hitting very well for me the last three or four days - haven't changed anything (still dosing around 2 grams), and going through my rotation (almost two month rotation nowadays) so I just chalked it up to "that's the way it is sometimes" but I've been rather constipated during that same period of time, which is unusual for me (the holidays always play havoc with my regularity, however).

Last night... well, without TMI let's just say I had a great BM that cleaned me out almost entirely. Right before I went to bed (interesting fact I learned recently - around 11pm your body stops the cycle so it's almost impossible to "go" after that, unless there is something really wrong).

This morning I got up and, again, in my regular rotation dosed with three TFH Imperial MD capsules and 1 capsule New Dawn Green Malay (almost exactly 2 grams total) and... wow. Seems like the BEST kratom I've ever had.

Which of course is not true, but what IS true is it just strengthens my firm believe that having clean bowels is ESSENTIAL to the kratom experience. I don't know for sure if the opioids are processed in the bowels but it sure seems like any obstruction there means the processing doesn't work properly. And that being constipated will remove much if not all of that experience. Obviously YMMV but I've found this so consistently that I take it as gospel (still another reason I do a LOT of things to remain regular).

Anyway, really enjoying my morning kratom experience. I think at the very least if you have become constipated and kratom isn't hitting for you you need to at least explore getting cleaned out because that might just be the total problem.

You state that objectively it is "essential", but that means that a counterexample will refute that. It makes no dfference for me. I would suggest that possibly whatever biological factors were making you constipated were perhaps also causing the kratom not to hit.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

I have found this to be very true as well. I've always heard it's because there are opioid receptors in the gastrointestinal tract.

While there are opioid receptors in the GI tract, these are not where the pleasant effect of kratom comes from! These actually only effect motility and other GI functions. It is only the opioid receptors in the brain that induce the "burn." There are actually medicines developed specifically for opioid constipation that block the opioid receptors in the GI tract, but not in the brain. Furthermore, Loperimide is an opioid that actually binds to these receptors but does not easily cross the blood brain barrier, hence its effectiveness as a safe anti-diarrhea drug.





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[Sityice]

I’ve 100% noticed this too. Not only do I feel great when I eat healthy and have BM or whatever but I also feel terrible if I’m backed up and had too much sugar, fast food, greasy food, etc…. Sometimes the constipation effects of Kratom makes me feel like I have super human powers and I can eat anything I want without being stuck in the bathroom for 4 hours but if I eat clean and make sure to go to the bathroom before dosing then I have an amazing experience.

I think it also has to do with being backed up and then taking something that constipates you even further. It numbs the pain but your body is sending alarms to your brain that you need to go and something is wrong whereas if your body is healthy and doesn’t need to drastically go to the bathroom then your body will just enjoy the effects of Kratom. I’ve also had headaches and nauseous feelings when dosing without emptying my bowels.

[BallzDeep9]

what IS true is it just strengthens my firm believe that having clean bowels is ESSENTIAL to the kratom experience. I don't know for sure if the opioids are processed in the bowels but it sure seems like any obstruction there means the processing doesn't work properly. And that being constipated will remove much if not all of that experience.

Yes. We should not need to study Gastroenterology to understand that 1- Many mµ opioid receptors are located in the gut... and 2- opioid antagonists DO cause constipation!! and, 3- Anything that inhibits or blocks, the peristaltic reflex in the gut - would prevent good absorption of kratom alkaloids - and thus, contribute to the "experience" being less effective.

You could say that about nutrients in general - Constipation is a negative for proper absorption of food, to the point where you're so plugged up you "feel sick" and MUST take a shit before consuming more solid food OR kratom - that's just basic common sense... Of course, receptors in the brain, are where "effects" happen BUT - opioid-induced bowel dysfunction (OBD) - may prevent ALL the kratom alkaloids from being digested... since there's less than 2% actives in kratom powder by weight. For more Science here's a LINK

[Denette615]

Well said

[Nelson Baboon]

So do people who are totally beginning with kratom, but are constipated, have no effects at all from it? And it's known that kratom itself can cause constipation, right?

It just seems to me that whatever it is that is causing the constipation is behind the failure of kratom to hit, rather than the constipation itself. Otherwise, i guess, when i've been constipated, and kratom has hit anyway, it was an illusion.

[KnifePartyNate]

I have no dog in this fight. But I asked Perplexity AI “how does constipation affect kratom absorption”. Here’s what it said (although I do agree with Nelson that we shouldn’t assume constipation is the primary cause without understanding its origins):

Constipation can potentially affect the absorption of some medications, including kratom, by slowing down the transit time of the drug through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract[2]. Kratom is known to cause constipation in some users due to its interaction with opioid receptors in the body, leading to reduced intestinal motility and slower peristalsis[5]. Additionally, kratom's diuretic properties can lead to dehydration, causing the colon to absorb more water from the stool, resulting in dry and hard feces that are challenging to pass[6]. However, the impact of constipation on kratom absorption can vary depending on the specific individual and the severity of the constipation.

Furthermore, kratom and certain medications, such as opioids, are known to slow down gastric emptying and peristalsis (the movement of the digestive tract), which can result in delayed absorption of medications. This delay doesn't necessarily prevent absorption, but it can affect the timing and potentially the extent of absorption.

Sources
[1] Does Kratom Cause Constipation? Learn All About It - NewsDirect https://www.newsdirect.com/kratom/kratom-constipation
[2] Does Kratom Cause Constipation? https://kratom.org/guides/side-effects/constipation/
[3] Kratom Constipation: Potential Causes and How to Prevent It https://newdawnkratom.com/kratom-constipation/
[4] Does Kratom Cause Constipation? https://www.authentickratom.com/educati ... nstipation
[5] How To Deal With Kratom Induced Constipation | Super Natural Botanicals https://supernaturalbotanical.com/krato ... stipation/
[6] Does Kratom Cause Constipation? - Amsterdam Smoke Shop https://amsterdamsmoke.shop/blogs/does- ... nstipation
[7] Does Kratom Cause Constipation?: Kratom Effects on Digestion https://kratommonkey.net/does-kratom-ca ... stipation/
[8] [PDF] Drug Fact Sheet: Kratom - DEA.gov https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files ... 2020_0.pdf

[brian b]

Have a salad a few times a week. I know most americans eat like children, but damn. Its not that hard. Add a few magnesium glycinate capsules at bedtime too. But have fruit during your day, and make sure you get some natural fiber. Your gut is the boss of so many functions. Keep the passage clear!

[Nelson Baboon]

I have no dog in this fight. But I asked Perplexity AI “how does constipation affect kratom absorption”. Here’s what it said (although I do agree with Nelson that we shouldn’t assume constipation is the primary cause without understanding its origins):

Constipation can potentially affect the absorption of some medications, including kratom, by slowing down the transit time of the drug through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract[2]. Kratom is known to cause constipation in some users due to its interaction with opioid receptors in the body, leading to reduced intestinal motility and slower peristalsis[5]. Additionally, kratom's diuretic properties can lead to dehydration, causing the colon to absorb more water from the stool, resulting in dry and hard feces that are challenging to pass[6]. However, the impact of constipation on kratom absorption can vary depending on the specific individual and the severity of the constipation.

Furthermore, kratom and certain medications, such as opioids, are known to slow down gastric emptying and peristalsis (the movement of the digestive tract), which can result in delayed absorption of medications. This delay doesn't necessarily prevent absorption, but it can affect the timing and potentially the extent of absorption.

......

One way in which the complexity of the causation is built in, is that we know that kratom use can lead to higher tolerance to kratom - so the kratom use is leading to both the constipation, and the symptom that some are attributing to constipation.

[Kelleytoons]

As I said (and I think I was perfectly clear in what I was trying to say) I have no evidence one way or the other - all I know is that when I am NOT regular kratom doesn't hit. No matter what kratom, no matter how else I'm feeling. And by "regular" for me it means at least once a day (usually first thing in the morning). If I miss two or three days it's VERY unusual for me.

As to whether whatever is constipating me causing the kratom not to hit - that seems to be looking for causality when none presents. Or, the old Occam's razor (the simplest explanation is the right one). I think it's pretty clear to me that being constipated DOES stop kratom effectiveness - obviously not for everyone, but we already know that kratom hits ALL of us in very unique ways.

My experience just reminded me of what I already knew. That's all I was trying to say.

[IndelibleDotInk]

lolololol this is funny yet serious.

Mad props to Kelley and Ballz for dropping the knowledge and experience. And shout out to the posters for not shying away from such a tmi thread, lol.

Much needs to experimented with personally.

[e_poison]

I think there is definitely some weight to this theory. Kratom always hits better when my body feels good and well rested, so it makes sense having empty bowels and a clean digestive system would go along with that. A lot of people say they get the best burns after a good night's sleep on an empty stomach so there is some anecdotal evidence for this out there.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Took a few poops, no constipation, one was liquidy from some keto mct mix.

Dosed, no noticeable difference except some gas and above texture mentioned.

[Nelson Baboon]

Took a few poops, no constipation, one was liquidy from some keto mct mix.

Dosed, no noticeable difference except some gas and above texture mentioned.

yeah. it's definitely good advice to try all sorts of things when kratom isn't hitting. I just don't think it's as simple as taking a shit, and it's all better. That's not to say that this sequence of events hasn't happened for some.

i'd be curious if in the cases where this cause/effect seems to apply, the constipation itself was caused by kratom use.

i've had both variables working simultaneously the last few weeks. My constipation has gotten better. I've been taking some hefty doses of magnesium, which seem to help. I've also tapered quite a bit - down from an avg in the mid 20's (how'd that happen, lol) down to 10-12 right now. So, that has probably also helped with the constipation.

And glory be - kratom seems to be hitting better than it was, but the cause and effect for me doesn't seem to work from the constipation. Some days are better than others, but the overall curve is in the right direction. It seems to be more related to the daily doses, and especially how much i do in the latter part of the day.

then again, my constipation hasn't been severe. maybe if the constipation is at the point where you are always feeling uncomfortable, then getting rid of it can help. But i find that strong physical distractions in general tend to work that way.

i don't think that it's an case for occam's razor if one is simply looking for a more complex cause and effect. In science, it's pretty frequent that some mistake cause and effect for correlation. It's a pretty important distinction.

[Kelleytoons]

What I was saying was that I KNEW it wasn't the kratom that caused my constipation (given that I've taken it for many years now with no issues - if I don't have a BM once a day you can call the press).

And what I knew for sure is that for those couple of days I WAS constipated (again, a VERY rare condition) the kratom wasn't hitting either (ANOTHER very rare condition - in the last 9 months everything has hit and hit well).

So - the odds of two EXTREMELY rare things being coincidental is, sure, possible but very very high. To me it's clear that being constipated caused the kratom not to work - when I wasn't suddenly it started working again. Ipso facto.

Trying to make up anything more complicated IN MY CASE just doesn't make any sense. Obviously YMMV.

[KnifePartyNate]

What I was saying was that I KNEW it wasn't the kratom that caused my constipation (given that I've taken it for many years now with no issues - if I don't have a BM once a day you can call the press).

And what I knew for sure is that for those couple of days I WAS constipated (again, a VERY rare condition) the kratom wasn't hitting either (ANOTHER very rare condition - in the last 9 months everything has hit and hit well).

So - the odds of two EXTREMELY rare things being coincidental is, sure, possible but very very high. To me it's clear that being constipated caused the kratom not to work - when I wasn't suddenly it started working again. Ipso facto.

Trying to make up anything more complicated IN MY CASE just doesn't make any sense. Obviously YMMV.

I hear ya. I don’t know if you remember, but you pointed this out to me actually. And unless it was a coincidence or placebo, I noticed an increase in efficacy on two different occasions when I took kratom after emptying the house!

[Lokey]

I agree, it works much better for me if regular. I believe kratom causes a back up for me and magnesium, prunes and fiber is a must every day or two.

[Sityice]

I just know that for me if I don't bring the browns to the super bowl over a 24 hour period then I get migraines, nauseous feeling, etc... and those feelings obviously put a dent on the feelings Kratom is producing. I don't think it necessarily boosts the Kratom effects for me, although it could I really have no idea, I think its more about dosing while not feeling sick/off and I can't go at all if I take Kratom it just does not work for me. I could eat 20 bigmacs, a whole pizza pie, and a tub of ice cream and all I will feel is horribly sick but I won't be able to go until the next day no matter what. If I take magnesium, probiotics, stool softeners, etc... then I just get sick but still can't go I really have no idea why but that just seems how my body works.

[e_poison]

Does anyone else take magnesium glycinate? I take it for a different health reason, but it also works as a safe laxative. Must be glycinate though, other forms of magnesium just don’t work as well for me.

I agree, it works much better for me if regular. I believe kratom causes a back up for me and magnesium, prunes and fiber is a must every day or two.

Prune juice works wonders. Better and safer than most otc laxatives.

[Lokey]

I take magnesium citrate but will try glycinate. The citrate works pretty good but need a higher dose than suggested