San Diego kratom laws

[boureka]

Does anyone know if possession of kratom is a problem in San Diego? I know selling and purchasing is illegal. And does that area include the airport?

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Does anyone know if possession of kratom is a problem in San Diego? I know selling and purchasing is illegal. And does that area include the airport?

I think it is just banned, not criminalized (that would have to be at a state level) so the most you would face is a fine for first offense - I could be wrong though. Shouldn't affect airport rules - they go by federal.

[boureka]

Yeah..thanks. I never made the distinction between banned and criminalized. Another thing to consider!
What I know now is that it's banned..even possession..within city limits and that the airport is within the city. Do you think the airport isn't governed by the city's ban? Hard to get to the bottom of this!

[boureka]

Here's all I could find:
San Diego Municipal Code section 52.3303 – Manufacture, Distribution and Sale Prohibited. It is
unlawful to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, offer for sale, distribute, or possess for sale any Federal
Schedule I Drug, Novel Synthetic Drug, or Novel Psychoactive Drug.
San Diego Municipal Code section 52.3304 – Possession Prohibited. It is unlawful to possess any
Federal Schedule I Drug, Novel Synthetic Drug, or Novel Psychoactive Drug.

Nothing about penalties.
Nothing about the airport.

[mivanqua]

Matcha tea powder in a bag.
Dump tea
Add kratom
Problem solved
Fuck them

Say hi to Pinback for me.

Hahahaha!

The matcha trick will certainly work. Could they even tell the difference without complex chemical testing? Doubtful.

Cop dips.finger into the green powder and gives it a taste...
"Oh. Denette Captain's Green, huh?"



"I don't know what you're talking about officer, this is yerba mate. These aren't the green plant powders you're looking for..."

[Kelleytoons]

Here's all I could find:
San Diego Municipal Code section 52.3303 – Manufacture, Distribution and Sale Prohibited. It is
unlawful to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, offer for sale, distribute, or possess for sale any Federal
Schedule I Drug, Novel Synthetic Drug, or Novel Psychoactive Drug.

But it's none of those things - it absolutely is NOT a Schedule 1 drug, nor either of those "Novel" drugs. It's an herb and I doubt whether even someone arrested for possession or sale could be successfully prosecuted.

(But I could be wrong - still yet one more reason I will NEVER set foot in my former home state ever again).

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Here's all I could find:
San Diego Municipal Code section 52.3303 – Manufacture, Distribution and Sale Prohibited. It is
unlawful to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, offer for sale, distribute, or possess for sale any Federal
Schedule I Drug, Novel Synthetic Drug, or Novel Psychoactive Drug.

But it's none of those things - it absolutely is NOT a Schedule 1 drug, nor either of those "Novel" drugs. It's an herb and I doubt whether even someone arrested for possession or sale could be successfully prosecuted.

(But I could be wrong - still yet one more reason I will NEVER set foot in my former home state ever again).

I mean, it is psychoactive, and it is as much of a drug as marijuana in my opinion. If it was fresh leaves coming over that's one thing, but it is cured and processed specifically for consuming and getting these psychoactive effects. Its definitely bullshit but I can understand how they got there.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Do you think the airport isn't governed by the city's ban? Hard to get to the bottom of this!

I'm sure it technically is, but its not something TSA will be enforcing or checking for. They probably don't even know kratom is banned there , let alone what kratom even is.

[Kelleytoons]

Here's all I could find:
San Diego Municipal Code section 52.3303 – Manufacture, Distribution and Sale Prohibited. It is
unlawful to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, offer for sale, distribute, or possess for sale any Federal
Schedule I Drug, Novel Synthetic Drug, or Novel Psychoactive Drug.

But it's none of those things - it absolutely is NOT a Schedule 1 drug, nor either of those "Novel" drugs. It's an herb and I doubt whether even someone arrested for possession or sale could be successfully prosecuted.

(But I could be wrong - still yet one more reason I will NEVER set foot in my former home state ever again).

I mean, it is psychoactive, and it is as much of a drug as marijuana in my opinion. If it was fresh leaves coming over that's one thing, but it is cured and processed specifically for consuming and getting these psychoactive effects. Its definitely bullshit but I can understand how they got there.

Except we're talking "law" - they can't just say "kratom is a drug" unless somewhere it is SPECIFICALLY mentioned. IOW, AKAIK, there is absolutely no where written down, ANYWHERE, that even classifies kratom as a drug (it's sold "not for human consumption" on that basis).

So, again, no way anyone could be successfully prosecuted without that language. Which is why the powers that be have tried for so long to GET it on the Schedule (so they CAN do what they will). Now - if a city or state has a specific ordinance against kratom that's a different thing, but so far as I've seen quoted here are generalities. (IOW, the law would have to say "Municipal Code blah blah blak - Unlawful to sell or possess KRATOM").

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

They absolutely can just say kratom is a drug. The point of this ordnance is to cover these previously undefined substances - Kratom is relatively new to western society, and is a psychoactive substance - Therefore it is covered under the term "Novel psychoactive drug." But it isn't even really about possession - its mostly about stopping it from being sold - and they absolutely will successfully ticket you, fine you, etc. If you are caught selling kratom in San Diego.

[boureka]

It's definitely novel.
It's definitely psychoactive.
If Pepto Bismol and Tylenol are drugs, I guess it's a drug too.
Wonder what the penalties are for possession.
Wonder what a vacation would be like if stash was confiscated.
Wonder what San Diego was thinking.
San Diego is not my destiny. Just passing thru way in and way out.

[Kelleytoons]

They absolutely can just say kratom is a drug. The point of this ordnance is to cover these previously undefined substances - Kratom is relatively new to western society, and is a psychoactive substance - Therefore it is covered under the term "Novel psychoactive drug." But it isn't even really about possession - its mostly about stopping it from being sold - and they absolutely will successfully ticket you, fine you, etc. If you are caught selling kratom in San Diego.

No - you guys are missing the point. If it doesn't SPECIFICALLY say so, it cannot just be called something that isn't in the law. By using vague terms like that they could also prevent ANYTHING from being sold.

As I said, they cannot win in a court of law using the law as quoted here. But it's up to you whether you want to test that. (If I were there I certainly would).

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

They absolutely can just say kratom is a drug. The point of this ordnance is to cover these previously undefined substances - Kratom is relatively new to western society, and is a psychoactive substance - Therefore it is covered under the term "Novel psychoactive drug." But it isn't even really about possession - its mostly about stopping it from being sold - and they absolutely will successfully ticket you, fine you, etc. If you are caught selling kratom in San Diego.

No - you guys are missing the point. If it doesn't SPECIFICALLY say so, it cannot just be called something that isn't in the law. By using vague terms like that they could also prevent ANYTHING from being sold.

As I said, they cannot win in a court of law using the law as quoted here. But it's up to you whether you want to test that. (If I were there I certainly would).

Are you saying that Kratom is not a psychoactive substance?

[Kelleytoons]

All I am saying is that NOWHERE is it defined as such (perhaps even in all of the world, but certainly not in that San Diego law).

Law is very... specific. You can't just have a law that says "any pain killer is banned" and then assume this will cover kratom (despite us knowing it eases pain). The LAW (as opposed to our collective knowledge) requires specific language. Otherwise lawyers can weasel their way around it (they can do it even if it's very spelled out, of course, but the more specific the law, the less likely this is).

None of this is to suggest that law enforcement can't abuse the law. If folks are peacefully milling around a government building they can be arrested and charged with treason even if there's absolutely no evidence they did anything. Luckily we don't live in a country that would do that. (Oh, wait).

[boureka]

From SanDiego.gov:
City Council approved an ordinance on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 that prohibits the
manufacturing, sale, distribution and possession of spice, bath salts, kratom, and other synthetic and
psychoactive drugs

[Kelleytoons]

But that's not the language of the law quoted here. Just quote the law itself where it specifically mentions kratom - if it doesn't then it ain't there.

[Nelson Baboon]

what is a "novel psychoactive drug"?

[Jfish030]

Its illegal within city limits, not the county. I would avoid taking kratom where it is illegal. You might just make the kratom news, in a bad way.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

what is a "novel psychoactive drug"?

Generally a newly arisen drug that is previously unidentified/uncontrolled. Often used to refer to research chemicals like bath salts or K2, but pretty broadly covers any new unregulated drug - like Kratom.

[Kelleytoons]

unregulated drug - like Kratom.

Kratom isn't a drug. Never been classified as such by anyone. (And heaven knows the FDA has tried hard enough).

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

unregulated drug - like Kratom.

Kratom isn't a drug. Never been classified as such by anyone. (And heaven knows the FDA has tried hard enough).

This is unequivocally false. Just look up the definition of drug. You don't need the government to classify it for you.

[Kelleytoons]

Sigh - you CLEARLY don't understand law.

The law DOES need classification. It is NOT enough to say something "is a drug" or they could regulate lawn grass. However, I think you're just missing the point here so I'll not revisit this thread.

[boureka]

Just curious, anyone know if alcohol is defined as a drug? Pretty sure it is.
What about coffee? Pretty (very) sure it is not.

[Nelson Baboon]

Just curious, anyone know if alcohol is defined as a drug? Pretty sure it is.
What about coffee? Pretty (very) sure it is not.

this discussion can become very silly. Obviously there are legal concerns, and many of those who apply legality to it, are actually applying politics to it....

but i mean, if you define a drug loosely as a substance that people take because of its psychoactive effects, then obviously kratom is a drug, as well as coffee and alcohol, or cocaine for that matter. The notion that taking something because it is enjoyable should be criminalized is a rather insane view of life.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Sigh - you CLEARLY don't understand law.

The law DOES need classification. It is NOT enough to say something "is a drug" or they could regulate lawn grass. However, I think you're just missing the point here so I'll not revisit this thread.

According to 21 U.S.C. §321. Definitions; generally, The legal definition of drug is as follows.

"(g)(1) The term “drug” means (A) articles recognized in the official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homoeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States, or official National Formulary, or any supplement to any of them; and (B) articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in man or other animals; and (C) articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals; and (D) articles intended for use as a component of any article specified in clause (A), (B), or (C). A food or dietary supplement for which a claim, subject to sections 343(r)(1)(B) and 343(r)(3) of this title or sections 343(r)(1)(B) and 343(r)(5)(D) of this title, is made in accordance with the requirements of section 343(r) of this title is not a drug solely because the label or the labeling contains such a claim. A food, dietary ingredient, or dietary supplement for which a truthful and not misleading statement is made in accordance with section 343(r)(6) of this title is not a drug under clause (C) solely because the label or the labeling contains such a statement."

Sorry if I was rude earlier, we are clearly on different wavelengths. I'm not trying to be argumentative. To me, Kratom easily fits within that definition of drug. Being a drug isn't a bad thing - although it is stigmatized - but its just a neutral term.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Just curious, anyone know if alcohol is defined as a drug? Pretty sure it is.
What about coffee? Pretty (very) sure it is not.

Caffeine absolutely is a drug - and since coffee is grown and produced specifically for that reason, I personally consider it a drug. I would never call it a drug casually, like at the grocery store or anything.

It's Kind of like marijuana - although everyone accepts that it is a drug - its the THC and other alks that are the drug when it comes down to it. Its the same principle, just different cultural standards.

[terposton]

Sigh - you CLEARLY don't understand law.

The law DOES need classification. It is NOT enough to say something "is a drug" or they could regulate lawn grass. However, I think you're just missing the point here so I'll not revisit this thread.

I know that you know everything about everything but you should look up the woman who is still in jail in Alabama for drug trafficking because of Kratom. Maybe since you know so much about the law you could represent her. Shaina Brown is her name if you interested.