NPR weekend edition story on kratom

[boureka]

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/08/11866328 ... h-lawsuits

Tries to be fair and balanced. This is an interesting listen.

[Nelson Baboon]

How can a story about kratom be fair and balanced if it doesn't mention that (at least from what i've read) all of the deaths from kratom could be attributed to mixing with other substances? or do i have that wrong. If it is true, it seems to be a rather salient detail.

if the case with the 'space dust' is actually the only exception to that, it should be mentioned in that context. If grossly misusing a strong extract is dangerous, then maybe it should be emphasized that kratom powder is not?

i'm not an expert on these cases, but without at least bringing out these issues, it doesn't seem balanced to me. maybe others disagree.

[boureka]

I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with a single point you raised. Its not a pro-kratom story .. it's not an anti kràtom story either. Most press that I read is so rabidly anti, so foaming-at-the-mouth bug-eyed, that this was relatively even keeled. They had a McCurdy clip and the mom who lost her child wasn't breathing hellfire.

[Nelson Baboon]

I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with a single point you raised. Its not a pro-kratom story .. it's not an anti kràtom story either. Most press that I read is so rabidly anti, so foaming-at-the-mouth bug-eyed, that this was relatively even keeled. They had a McCurdy clip and the mom who lost her child wasn't breathing hellfire.

i don't really disagree with you either, but i think that the net effect of this kind of so-called 'balanced' story is that knowledgeable people are left with the 'war on drugs' aftertaste - you know, oh my god, are we going to have to ban this, etc, etc, and lump it in with opioids. Sometimes 'splitting the difference' between 2 positions, where one of them is basically false, isn't objective.

[Kelleytoons]

'splitting the difference' between 2 positions, where one of them is basically false, isn't objective.

Exactly on point.

There isn't a "balanced" opinion on kratom if it includes ANY mention of danger. That's like saying eating celery is dangerous. I don't want any body to think there's a single reason why we should want to restrict kratom. To ANYONE.

I'm very sensitive to protecting our children from many things most folks are not sensitive about. But in this case I see zero reason to worry about them even. And any other position IS dangerous (because it can be extended in ways that will restrict our freedom needlessly).

[IndelibleDotInk]

NPR is... not news. It's like a blurb or meme, a short glimpse into real news stories.

If you get your news from NPR... you're not getting even a fifth of the picture.

I used to listen to it while driving and felt keyed in.. then I realized it was good subjects and headlines, but no meat, no information.

They did a piece on a man-eating tiger in rural India and some lion-hunters brought in to kill it and protect the populace. After listening to the story (not even a story, really, just some stats and quoted or snipped phrases) I realized NPR is not real journalism. Say, it's way worse than the NY Post is to the Times.

I do feel some of their projects, like read-aloud short stories are excellent, there was a particular one read by Rene Abujoinus (? the Star Trek DS9 shape shifter guy).

But NPR ain't news. As an afterthought, where is the money going to fund this?

[SeventhHeaven]

Both Kelleytoons and IndelibleDotInk - I agree 100%!

[Loveandpeace]

NPR is... not news. It's like a blurb or meme, a short glimpse into real news stories.

If you get your news from NPR... you're not getting even a fifth of the picture.

I used to listen to it while driving and felt keyed in.. then I realized it was good subjects and headlines, but no meat, no information.

They did a piece on a man-eating tiger in rural India and some lion-hunters brought in to kill it and protect the populace. After listening to the story (not even a story, really, just some stats and quoted or snipped phrases) I realized NPR is not real journalism. Say, it's way worse than the NY Post is to the Times.

I do feel some of their projects, like read-aloud short stories are excellent, there was a particular one read by Rene Abujoinus (? the Star Trek DS9 shape shifter guy).

But NPR ain't news. As an afterthought, where is the money going to fund this?

I disagree Indelible,

When you compare the vast wasteland of news reporting, NPR offers a lot more than 'afterthought' journalism. Both sides twist, candy coat and coddle their shareholders, NPR seems to try and maintain a standard.

With all due respect

[drainflake77]

Yeah, I like NPR too. Some of their programming is outstanding.

Now for this piece. In the real world, it's not balanced at all but in the past, in all the reporting I've ever read, there was NO attempt at balance at ALL. You'd think the Kratom Monster was ominously stalking innocent children. This piece, I believe could be seen as a step in the right direction. At least they represented some positives. At least a distinction was made between extracts and leaf, but they never noted that kratom leaf is harmless. A big omission.
Where Kelley skewed off was his blanket condemnation of monitoring ANY kratom ANY time with ANYONE. I don't see we can claim to be protectors of children and feel there should be no safeguards against a 15 year old walking into a convenience store and purchasing an unregulated concoction of extract and who knows what else. Maybe I misread, Kelleytoons, but it seems like a potentially bad scenario. There are elements in the industry of extracts (not all extracts} that are marketed irresponsibly. Even the lobbying arm of our AKA thinks this is a black eye on kratom. It's in everybody's best interests to have some parameters governing the marketing and production of extracts.

By the way, I am 10 years with kratom and have no experience with extracts altho i am very aware that members such as Ballz use them well and effectively but it seems you need higher math to calculate dosage. How, if I cant figure it out, can that 15 year old buying a "bottle of...WHAT" figure it out? Those manufacturers are giving kratom an ugly stain and an unnecessary link to the drug culture. They give us and the honest vendors a bad name should be reined in.

[Kelleytoons]

Since you mention me in particular...

We were talking kratom - I have zero experience with or using extracts, but I don't consider that kratom in the same way I don't consider 100 percent alcohol "drinking alcohol". It's the same stuff as that we drink, only what we drink it watered down tremendously. So you can't compare apples and oranges.

Again, I would think it would be FINE if some 15 year old bought ANY of the kratom I've purchased over the years and I do not want to see ANYONE trying to regulate that. Regulating other things is just fine. Don't try and set up a straw man here (you sound like a politician - and I hate to give the worst insult I could give anyone, but a typical politician does that, tries and confuse the issue with non-facts).

[drainflake77]

Since you mention me in particular...

We were talking kratom - I have zero experience with or using extracts, but I don't consider that kratom in the same way I don't consider 100 percent alcohol "drinking alcohol". It's the same stuff as that we drink, only what we drink it watered down tremendously. So you can't compare apples and oranges.

Again, I would think it would be FINE if some 15 year old bought ANY of the kratom I've purchased over the years and I do not want to see ANYONE trying to regulate that. Regulating other things is just fine. Don't try and set up a straw man here (you sound like a politician - and I hate to give the worst insult I could give anyone, but a typical politician does that, tries and confuse the issue with non-facts).

Mea Culpa if I wasn't clear. If extracts are not kratom, then we're in agreement. I'm hardly a politician. I bang nails for a living. But i hope I can count on your vote

[IndelibleDotInk]

I can't think of a time I really learned anything from NPR versus every time I read the Star Advertiser (main Hawaiian newspaper) or Civil Beat (independent Hawaiian news website) there is an article relevant to life in the islands, US, international or even my personal life, and other interesting bits and bites and whole meals.

[Nelson Baboon]

NPR is... not news. It's like a blurb or meme, a short glimpse into real news stories.

If you get your news from NPR... you're not getting even a fifth of the picture.

I used to listen to it while driving and felt keyed in.. then I realized it was good subjects and headlines, but no meat, no information.

They did a piece on a man-eating tiger in rural India and some lion-hunters brought in to kill it and protect the populace. After listening to the story (not even a story, really, just some stats and quoted or snipped phrases) I realized NPR is not real journalism. Say, it's way worse than the NY Post is to the Times.

I do feel some of their projects, like read-aloud short stories are excellent, there was a particular one read by Rene Abujoinus (? the Star Trek DS9 shape shifter guy).

But NPR ain't news. As an afterthought, where is the money going to fund this?

I disagree Indelible,

When you compare the vast wasteland of news reporting, NPR offers a lot more than 'afterthought' journalism. Both sides twist, candy coat and coddle their shareholders, NPR seems to try and maintain a standard.

With all due respect

slightly more intelligent corporate propaganda is still corporate propaganda. All news organizations maintain a 'standard', which their sponsors approve of.

[IndelibleDotInk]

To modify my statement a bit, I do like a lot of NPR's programming, which spans several genres. But their news is no news. It could spark in interest in a topic, but you won't ever learn much from NPR. And there is a whole culture about it. I remember hearing a comedian teasing those who listen to NPR for news and how they really didn't know anything from it... they just think they are so in tune because it's NPR... true. Like they have decoder rings to decipher the news.

But I do think a lot of shows are good or try to be good.

[mivanqua]

The FDA declined to be interviewed for this story.

This is the only surprise I see.
Probably too much of a contradictory message to what they are pushing. "If you even SEE this shit, you are in danger of dying."

At least it was enough of a softball hit piece, the FDA chose not to involve themselves.

OR they are admitting they are wrong...

Naaaaaaah! Can't be that!

[Nelson Baboon]

The FDA declined to be interviewed for this story.

This is the only surprise I see.
Probably too much of a contradictory message to what they are pushing. "If you even SEE this shit, you are in danger of dying."

At least it was enough of a softball hit piece, the FDA chose not to involve themselves.

OR they are admitting they are wrong...

Naaaaaaah! Can't be that!

i'd be interested to see how often they do comment on stories involving them. They might just generally decline as a matter of policy. (i'm not pushing any agenda here - i think what you say is plausible).

[mivanqua]

Yeah, no idea. Just a guess. The vibe I get from it.

[boureka]

Slightly off topic..speaking of the FDA, a quick look at the NIH website and you'll find very ominous kràtom findings but if you look at the ncbi.nim.nih.gov, it looks promising. I've always been confused about government agencies, what their purview is and how they overlap. In this case, I don't even know what the ncbi is. Does anyone?

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Slightly off topic..speaking of the FDA, a quick look at the NIH website and you'll find very ominous kràtom findings but if you look at the ncbi.nim.nih.gov, it looks promising. I've always been confused about government agencies, what their purview is and how they overlap. In this case, I don't even know what the ncbi is. Does anyone?

"The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) is part of the United States National Library of Medicine, a branch of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). It is approved and funded by the government of the United States" -Wikipedia

NCBI is basically a journal/database that is part of the NIH.

[boureka]

So the NIH basically says kràtom is the devil but its library/database says kràtom is possibly useful in healthcare. Is this one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing?

[BallzDeep9]

Tries to be fair and balanced.

uhhh No, when the headline screams "Wrongful Death Lawsuit" it reads pretty biased toward Negative.

But that's what's become of The Internet and Media, mixed with Capitalism... everything's pushing outrageous Scandal type content for "clicks" and "Likes", because that's... The Money.

NPR's had a long standing reputation for "Responsible Journalism", and... yes there IS such a thing, there ARE good Journalists and Reporters out there ?? I have no idea who Peter Haden is ? or how their NPR Website is run, what's the Editorial Policy ... Does anyone even proof-read anymore ? Or Fact Check ? Or is the money such a scramble... READ their "Fine Print" at bottom -- "NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record."

That's called a DISCLAIMER... They're telling us, the story MAY be complete bullshit, totally wrong, and NOT fact checked.

[Bestboy143]

I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with a single point you raised. Its not a pro-kratom story .. it's not an anti kràtom story either. Most press that I read is so rabidly anti, so foaming-at-the-mouth bug-eyed, that this was relatively even keeled. They had a McCurdy clip and the mom who lost her child wasn't breathing hellfire.

There's really no evidence supporting that. Opiates cause respiratory depression which is the mode of which they kill during overdose. Kratom does not have have that. Just because the 150 deaths in 12 years had Kratom in their system doesn't mean it had anything to do with it. Also, NPR. haha fair and balanced? Any and everything you watch or listen to is a ruse. Just pull the plug and all of the bs disappears.

[brian b]

I have not heard this recent kratom story on NPR, but those of you who say its not news, are dead WRONG. You must be ignorant republicans as well. Not saying NPR is perfect, but you can rely on them for reporting the truth. Should we watch some fictional BS on Fox? Gimme a fn break

[OriginalLHB]

I have not heard this recent kratom story on NPR, but those of you who say its not news, are dead WRONG. You must be ignorant republicans as well. Not saying NPR is perfect, but you can rely on them for reporting the truth. Should we watch some fictional BS on Fox? Gimme a fn break

NPR was always "liberal leaning" but it has become a Woke cesspool since 2020 where The Truth goes to die. You should take your trash talk over to Daily Kos where it would be more appreciated, and show some respect.

[boureka]

I have not heard this recent kratom story on NPR, but those of you who say its not news, are dead WRONG. You must be ignorant republicans as well. Not saying NPR is perfect, but you can rely on them for reporting the truth. Should we watch some fictional BS on Fox? Gimme a fn break

NPR was always "liberal leaning" but it has become a Woke cesspool since 2020 where The Truth goes to die. You should take your trash talk over to Daily Kos where it would be more appreciated, and show some respect.

C'mon. Stop. Not here.

[brian b]

Exactly. Someone above needs to grow up

[brian b]

And define everyone's new favorite word, Woke. Gimme a fn break..