Eating AFTER your dose

[Kelleytoons]

So elsewhere I have posted a thread some of you have commented on, about how things are hitting for me now almost 100% and yet I can't figure out why. In an effort to continue to track this down I did notice one thing that perhaps has changed with me.

First of all, I put down my routine in that thread but one thing I didn't mention - one thing that has changed for me in the last month when all this goodness began - is that our daughter has come to live with us. It's a long story I won't go into here in detail except to note that it HAS changed my routine in one major way.

Prior to this I was pretty emphatic about not taking kratom on a full stomach. However, my basic premise was to always eat and then wait two or three hours and dose. And then do not eat again for many hours. The only exception to this is my morning dose - there I usually dose the very first thing and eat either an hour later (on tennis days) or perhaps as long as two hours later.

Now - my morning dose ALWAYS hit, almost no matter what I took. It was the afternoon and evening doses that were hit or miss. But today I started thinking and examining this further and have come to the conclusion that, since our daughter came to live, my eating patterns for lunch and dinner are different. Now, instead of dosing and then eating many hours (four or five later) I've been eating almost exactly an hour or 90 minutes after my dose. And those, as I've said, are hitting strong.

I sit here now, having dosed about two hours ago and then getting some food an hour later, and feel the strongest feeling from the kratom I took - as strong as anything I've ever done. Which leads me to think that maybe, just maybe, the reason that everything is hitting is that I follow up my dose an hour or so later with some food.

This is just a theory - but perhaps others can share their experience. I still think an empty stomach is almost essential for a good dose, but perhaps having some food shortly thereafter is ALSO a good thing. Maybe the digestive process that occurs also helps the kratom get absorbed.

Now I realize some folks don't agree with my "empty stomach" theory. But maybe you can look to see if, when something has hit consistently, it's when you have started with an empty stomach and then eaten about an hour later. (It might be a little different in timing since I use capsules exclusively - so perhaps those of you with just the powder could eat as soon as 30 minutes later. I don't know, but I do think the sharing of such information might be helpful for those who are in a "miss" period of their kratom use).

[IndelibleDotInk]

to be tested!

[Nelson Baboon]

i'm often quite hungry after dosing and will eat an hour after drinking my dose, but with limited testing have found that eating before i feel the full effects tends to mute the result a bit. I like to wait.

[boureka]

I thought the rule of thumb in general (not just for kràtom) was that an empty stomach produced a more intense but shorter experience while a fuller stomach was associated with a more muffled but protracted one.

[Kelleytoons]

Because we know that kratom is processed by the GI tract it operates a bit differently than things that do not hit the opioid receptors. So empty bowels are the most important.

Problem with that is that food goes into the GI track fairly soon after eating - so those receptors would be blocked and thus, with just having eaten, you are unlikely to feel much of anything with kratom. Now - everyone is different, and everyone's system processes things differently, so those are VERY general guidelines. Only you can know how long things take to move through your system. For me it's clear that taking kratom after I've eaten (say, less than an hour afterwards) has ZERO effect. Doesn't matter what batch - it just doesn't work. Ever. But waiting a few hours tends to clear my system out, and it always works.

What I'm trying to establish is that WITH an empty stomach and a dose, does food coming afterwards do something that changes the effects. Since it's GI processing we are interested in, it's not unlikely that food coming in to be processed has *some* sort of effect, but what? Does it "hurry things up"? Does it just "add" to the processing?

I tried again last night, taking something that I've had so-so results in the past, and sure enough, when I ate about 30 minutes afterwards it seemed to supercharge the experience. But - too limited data, and (of course) purely anecdotal, as is all info we can provide. I really wish someone would perform some real science on our favorite powder but it's unlikely.

[Eu4oric906]

I definitely try to take on an empty stomach but almost always do eat like 30-60 min after. Just kind of how my timing works organically. The food after never seems to mess w my kratom vibes. Im sitting here having just eaten after taking 3 grams of dark room hulu 3 and im feeling quite nice!

[boureka]

Sorry to digress...but do the opiate receptors in the gut being pinged affect things like affect or mood or is their stimulation restricted to things like gastric motility? I figured your gut opioid receptors being bonked wouldn't make you kratom-euphoric, it would just make you constipated...and it was the receptors in your brain that made you happy. I'm not saying I know, I'm asking.. I mean, I know an empty stomach is important to the kratom experience but I assumed that was because it's more readily absorbed in an empty intestine, it's not competing with the burrito you ate earlier.

[Kelleytoons]

I'm just repeating what others have said, but kratom isn't processed by your brain, it's processed in the gut, in those GI receptors. Which then feed your entire body.

If your brain could process foods I guess you could just inject something in there, but it would probably hurt. (Well, not really - the brain has no pain receptors. But perhaps the scalp would be sore :>).

[Ijk684]

Maybe this is why my morning doses haven’t been hitting so great. I’ve been kinda skipping breakfast all together.I have definitely noticed if I eat a fatty meal at least two hours before my dose, I seem to get better effects. Definitely gonna eat some breakfast tomorrow and see if it changes anything.

[boureka]

I'm just repeating what others have said, but kratom isn't processed by your brain, it's processed in the gut, in those GI receptors. Which then feed your entire body.

If your brain could process foods I guess you could just inject something in there, but it would probably hurt. (Well, not really - the brain has no pain receptors. But perhaps the scalp would be sore :>).

Of course it is your gut that digests and breaks down everything you ingest and those smaller particles travel throughout the body. And only the particles which can cross the blood brain barrier will enter. What I'm saying is the opioid receptors in the gut affect gut motility while the receptors in the brain affect pain, mood, etc. If you give an opioid blocker( the kind that stays in the gut) the patient's constipation will be relieved but the pain relief is still there.
I understand this is a digression from the thread's topic. I'm just confused by what I I think you said and understand if you don't wish to continue the discussion here.

[Lokey]

I think the food activates digestion and gastric activity which helps speed up the breakdown of capsules especially. It would probably work just as good if not better if you ate a little something at the same time you take capsules.

[Kelleytoons]

It's an interesting thought, that perhaps (because I use capsules) that THAT is the mechanism by which food enhances/helps.

I have to experiment a lot more with this stuff.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

Sorry to digress...but do the opiate receptors in the gut being pinged affect things like affect or mood or is their stimulation restricted to things like gastric motility? I figured your gut opioid receptors being bonked wouldn't make you kratom-euphoric, it would just make you constipated...and it was the receptors in your brain that made you happy. I'm not saying I know, I'm asking.. I mean, I know an empty stomach is important to the kratom experience but I assumed that was because it's more readily absorbed in an empty intestine, it's not competing with the burrito you ate earlier.

This is correct - the opiod receptors in the GI tract do not give the "high." They effect motility and secretion in the gut. The "high" comes mit in the bloodstream that crosses the blood brain barrier.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

I'm just repeating what others have said, but kratom isn't processed by your brain, it's processed in the gut, in those GI receptors. Which then feed your entire body.

If your brain could process foods I guess you could just inject something in there, but it would probably hurt. (Well, not really - the brain has no pain receptors. But perhaps the scalp would be sore :>).

Everything you eat is processed in the gut - part of that process is mitragynine entering your bloodstream where it then crosses the blood brain barrier causing the "high" via opiod receptors in the central nervous system. Opiod receptors in the gut are part of the peripheral nervous system and only affect motility and secretion.

Some articles here that kind of go over this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6310692/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3163293/

[Kelleytoons]

Right, but that's my point - if your gut isn't open and available to process things, then it will just flush out. So keeping your bowels empty is important for the kratom experience.

[brian b]

Very interesting topic. I usually take kratom on an empty stomach, def in the morning, but also sometimes in the afternoon for a second dose. I would ask what kinds of food you were eating, and somehow that played into digestion/absorbtion of the kratom dose. Also, i believe metabolism plays a small part as well. I have a super fast metabolism and feel stuff like Tylenol or other analgesics fairly quickly, in about 15 minutes. I know people that say they dont feel relief or other action for 30-45 min. I know with cannabis edibles certain ingredients prolong the experience because of a long breakdown by the body. Oats is one. Canna cookies w oats will drive a long buzz. Maybe somethin here w kratom since we all process somewhat differently.

[Kelleytoons]

Because I use capsules I almost never feel anything for about an hour after taking. Someone here said that eating food might help with the capsule absorption and I think that might well be part of the answer.

You bring up a good point, though, about what kind of food to eat for this purpose. I'm on kind of a strict diet (well, just basically a healthy one so lots of protein and small amount of carbs). I've tried with some peanuts, and I've tried with some cheese, but I think tonight I'm going to try taking some with my dinner (so dosing immediately before I just eat my meal) which is balanced with protein, fats and carbs.

[boureka]

In nutrition, some substances are better absorbed in the presence of others. For example, fat soluble vitamins are more readily absorbed when eaten with a something fatty, say, an avocado. On the other hand, some foods should be eaten independently from others, say calcium from iron as they compete for the same spots in the absorption chain. (I still eat my spinach pie though.) And in general, water soluble vitamins are more readily absorbed in the presence of...water. i am not aware of any studies discussing the digestive properties of kràtom but it's an interesting exercise to pursue.

[Kelleytoons]

One thing I've always done (and since I always do it it's not anything new that would improve my experience as I started this thread) is to take my kratom with propel, the major ingredient being, besides water, citric acid.

There *have* been some studies done showing that citric acid improves the extraction of the good stuff from the kratom powder. Normally this is the kind of info used in brewing tea, but I always felt it never hurt to take it with that just in case.

[onespeedstop]

I've noticed it -hit- better after a meal several times. But, I had drank it (the kratom & orange juice) about 2-3 hours before the meal, then about 20-30 mins after the meal it hits fairly hard, for a shorter amount of time, say 30-60 minutes. I haven't done that enough to call it a "study" or "research" or anything, but there may be something to it. Ultimately, I really don't care that much, kratom is more of a luxury for me in that - when it works that's great, and when it doesn't, well it was dirt cheap anyways and at least I got some orange juice out of the deal. It's interesting stuff though, and maybe someday they'll actually do studies on it so we can all understand it better.

[BallzDeep9]

In nutrition, some substances are better absorbed in the presence of others. For example, fat soluble vitamins are more readily absorbed when eaten with a something fatty, say, an avocado.

This is KEY - and supports Kelley's thesis (especially when food is a salad with oil dressing !) ~ Mitragynine is FAT soluble. It's been suggested for years on Kratom forums "Eat a spoonful of Coconut Oil along with your powder"... which would help to protect alkaloids from being destroyed by harsh stomach acid... and moved into the intestines for absorption.

Since Mitragynine IS the "active" alkaloid, and a partial agonist on the mµ opioid receptor - the "high" is produced by that activity Absorption into the bloodstream is a complex chain of events which happens mostly in capillary walls of the small intestines, the duodenum, the jejunum... There is a diffusion process, and transporters for FAT soluble nutrients, which would also apply to indole alkaloids like Kratom.

This is actually a good question for A.I. using Bing's Chat-GPT generative A.I. ask "How do nutrients get into the bloodstream?" and you'll get a full response.

[Seomasterg]

I'mma try this now but instead of coconut oil as I don't have any, will use vegetable oil will get back to you if I see a difference

[Kelleytoons]

Hmmm, so if fat is the key I wonder what's the easiest way other than, perhaps coconut oil, to take something with your kratom (for me, capsules). I mean, I like coconut oil in baking, popcorn making, etc, but a raw teaspoon or so seems... impossible <g>.

I'll have to look up what's a good fatty snack of some sort - I DID try a full balanced meal this morning and it seems to work just fine, but there are times I just don't want to eat a lot of food with my dose.

[boureka]

What about...black seed oil!!

[Kelleytoons]

I actually was taking black seed oil capsules for a while (maybe a year ago) but as a potentiator it seemed to do nothing (I tried just about ALL the ones advised here at various points in time because I was at the point where nothing was hitting. Then I cut my dose in half and it was a miracle. In any case, I stopped taking all that $$$ crap and things were fine).

Last night I found a fatty snack that was the best thing in my life I've ever tasted - dark chocolate bar and I put peanut butter on top of it. Dear wife was telling me that Reese made cups like this but, trust me, nothing I've ever had came close to the taste of supreme good dark chocolate bar with pure peanut butter on it (those candy makers put all kinds of preservatives and cheapeners in their stuff). I don't know if it actually helped or not, but I WILL have this again with my nighttime dose <g>. (Oh, and I was still on my diet - just a tablespoon of peanut butter on two squares of the chocolate bar, so well within all my guidelines).

[IndelibleDotInk]

It's an interesting thought, that perhaps (because I use capsules) that THAT is the mechanism by which food enhances/helps.

I have to experiment a lot more with this stuff.

I don't get a burn if I use capsules, even if I used extract in capsules, not enough gets absorbed to have a burn. A few others note the same thing, but not many.

I wonder if my pharmaceutical pills are also not absorbing, lol.

[IndelibleDotInk]

I cannot believe you have never had choc/pb together!!! It's a classic. Like your wife said, Reeses makes them in wrapped flat 'cups' which has a stellar sweet peanut butter with a hint of salt. Milk choc, dark choc available, extra big, etc. Your recipe sounds just as tasty. I'm on a ketogenic diet, wonder if one or two squares will fit in my carb ration.....annnd yes, wow. I'mma think about that the next time I go to the store. Thanks Kelleytoons.

[Supersonic75]

Just a casual observation - when I have eaten something small but fatty (like a small handful of nuts, or yes; chocolate) around 45-60 minutes after taking my kratom it has resulted in some superb burns. I've never made a habit out of it - repetition spoils almost anything for me (though I've definitely been a near-daily doser for three years or so) - but it's happened enough times for me to notice it.

Good discussion!

[Kelleytoons]

I don't get a burn if I use capsules, even if I used extract in capsules, not enough gets absorbed to have a burn. A few others note the same thing, but not many.

Capsules you make yourself? If so, make sure you try the vegan capsules (or, conversely, if the vegan ones aren't working, try the gelatin ones). It's quite possible your body will absorb one but not the other.

My ex-wife used to have this problem with C pills in that she would actually poop them out (now, I did not WITNESS this - this isn't the reason she's my ex - but she said it and I believe her). Her GI tract obviously had issues breaking stuff down, and it's always possible you do as well.

Something else folks have mentioned is to take a pin or needle and make holes in the capsules before swallowing. I tried this a few times - the powder doesn't come out so don't worry about that - but it didn't seem to have an effect one way or the other. But - I don't have a problem with capsules. Perhaps by doing this it would work for you.

[Kelleytoons]

I cannot believe you have never had choc/pb together!!!

Oh, I've had CANDY (like the Reese stuff) that was chocolate and p-butter, but this was the first time I ever took a quality dark chocolate bar and PUT peanut butter (quality stuff) on it. There was no comparison - it was REALLY delicious. Felt completely decadent and, yes, you can control the carb/calories quite well (even just one square of the bar with a tablespoon of p butter is magnificent) .

[Supersonic75]

Oh, I've had CANDY (like the Reese stuff) that was chocolate and p-butter, but this was the first time I ever took a quality dark chocolate bar and PUT peanut butter (quality stuff) on it. There was no comparison - it was REALLY delicious. Felt completely decadent and, yes, you can control the carb/calories quite well (even just one square of the bar with a tablespoon of p butter is magnificent) .

yum

[IndelibleDotInk]

better pick up some dark choc for my mom. Lindh makes a good one with hot peppers in it. And we do have pure pb.

[Kelleytoons]

Just yesterday I did the "one square of dark chocolate with a tablespoon of peanut butter" about an hour after I first started feeling the effects of my kratom and oh my god, it was like a turbo booster rocket. It honestly seemed like I had taken a dose about twice what my normal one was. And it lasted a LONG time (six hours at least). So I think I'm pretty dialed in now with what I will do (it doesn't hurt that that dessert treat is wicked good - I'm dreaming of it right now, but I won't be dosing for another hour or so).