Fresh Green Vein Leaves

[Loveandpeace]

Hi family,

I have 30 mature, fresh leaves coming in the mail today. I am incredibly curious. 1 full size leaf equals 1 gram. I am a low doser and they don't last much longer than a week.

I will comment here with thoughts and opinions.

Please feel free to offer advice as well.

Thank you

[Supersonic75]

I am curious too! Hope you enjoy and yes; please report back!

[onespeedstop]

Sounds interesting, you'll have to let us know how it goes.

[BallzDeep9]

Beware, people selling "domestic" kratom / leaves from kratom trees grown in USA.

We realize that kratom is often compared to cannabis.... they are TOTALLY different. People grow weed in USA. Nobody's growing good kratom in USA - all good kratom is imported from SE Asia, Indonesia, and around 90% is from Borneo with maybe 10% from Sumatra. And 90% of real Kratom leaves when harvested are "red vein" or the main stem, bone, is a reddish color. The leaf itself is green.

YES, there are people trying to grow kratom in USA... YES they have invested their Time and Money. . So of course, they are desperate to SELL this kratom, which is not known to be.... any good!! It's a Novelty... Don't be fooled into buying "USA grown kratom", at least until it's a proven thing. JMHO!

[brave777]

Isnt a good kratom tree has to be grown at least 5-10 years for that mitra% to show up? Might be not as strong.

[NiqueKristan]

Beware, people selling "domestic" kratom / leaves from kratom trees grown in USA.

We realize that kratom is often compared to cannabis.... they are TOTALLY different. People grow weed in USA. Nobody's growing good kratom in USA - all good kratom is imported from SE Asia, Indonesia, and around 90% is from Borneo with maybe 10% from Sumatra. And 90% of real Kratom leaves when harvested are "red vein" or the main stem, bone, is a reddish color. The leaf itself is green.

YES, there are people trying to grow kratom in USA... YES they have invested their Time and Money. . So of course, they are desperate to SELL this kratom, which is not known to be.... any good!! It's a Novelty... Don't be fooled into buying "USA grown kratom", at least until it's a proven thing. JMHO!

Interesting. I have tried Miraleaf, who grow in the US. Not the best Leaf I’ve had, but it was on par with a lot of the leaf imported from Indonesia.

[Loveandpeace]

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate them ALL.

Ballz, I am skeptical too.
Brave, The leaves look kind of small so I wonder the same thing you do.

Here are a few pics, it was an easy process from Florida. About a $1 a leaf.

Pics so far...

[brave777]

Boil some leafs indo style and let us know how was the US leaf experience?

[IndelibleDotInk]

Boil some leafs indo style and let us know how was the US leaf experience?

You going with boiling or raw or dried? What a fun experiment!

[BallzDeep9]

Ballz, I am skeptical too.

Thank You for this Topic, and those pics... Very interesting !!

This whole growing discussion is bound to come up... or "come of age" as I don't doubt that some growers, now, finally, have good-size trees... South Florida, absolutely, would be the only place I'd even consider being a Legit garden in USA. The go-to for truthful info, on Reddit would be u/miamibotany1 - He is recognized as 5+ years on Reddit and, now claims to have a 300 Acre kratom Farm down near Miami. Moderator of several farming subs: r/Kratomtree / and others.

The other guy /KratomRoll, began SPAMMING on Reddit 1 month ago, . trying to sell his "Fresh Leaves"... and descriptions of weak Bumblebee variety look exactly like what he's pushing... Here's a Comment from another on Reddit. There IS a community of USA growers/ farmers on Reddit so, take this Comment FWIW:

u/GenMicroNutrient4 - QUOTE - Those are Bumblebee leaves very weak and proven through many university studies they contain tiny amounts of alkaloids, I don't recommend buying those type at all, you can make a clear distinction of the leaves phenotypes it's quite easy to tell who doesn't know what they are growing or selling to the unsuspecting buyer, my advice do some research before buying, if you want potent leaves look into real legit Thai and Indo types, I got mine from u/miamibotany1 and tested them myself and they were testing close to an amazing 2% MITRA, earlier in the year I ended up buying some other phenotypes from another guy and they were misrepresenting the plant by saying something it wasn't come to find out this guy sold me crap bumblebee which represent the exact type of leaf in the op post..

[brave777]

2% mitra and 5+ year tree. wow. we need more plantations in california and more plantaion in florida or all hot climate area's. I am happy we adopted it in USA, I took both of my babys to florida to a friend of mine, she is very nice. One died, but another died too but came back with fresh leaves. What i hate about her even thought i understand she helped me, that she refuses to water them, and even thought it does rain here and there but not everyday. I really hope that one that survived is thriving, i could ask for a pic to see how its doing if anyone interested.. It was pretty big but half the size now with new shoots. She lives by the beach not far and i wonder if kratom roots cant handle the sand? anyone know? I am just sad that the one that died, it was big and strong, just wasn't taken care of at her place. Maybe a big shock to the roots when i transplanted. I have a feeling the one that survived might die too. I told her if it dies, i am not visiting her anymore.. I started it when they both were tinay babys, one was rifat or something and another bumblebee. I dont even know which one survived. I really do hope it flourishes big, but not sure how it will do in the sand....

[Jking]

Hey just a quick question are there any vendors who sell just whole leaf? Also if the bumblebee strain is no good what are the good ones? All natural artisans sells bumblebee strain, and riftrat strain.

[Denette615]

As with any kratom leaf "strain" id be very hesitant to blacklist a strain called bumblebee for the simple fact that strain names mean almost nothing. Im sure the majority of us know that by now.

One of my suppliers provides a bumblebee strain which is incredibly potent. His mitra levels come in around 2% and 7hydrox 0.004/0.003.

Just do your homework.

D

[Daydreamsofmountains]

Beware, people selling "domestic" kratom / leaves from kratom trees grown in USA.

We realize that kratom is often compared to cannabis.... they are TOTALLY different. People grow weed in USA. Nobody's growing good kratom in USA - all good kratom is imported from SE Asia, Indonesia, and around 90% is from Borneo with maybe 10% from Sumatra. And 90% of real Kratom leaves when harvested are "red vein" or the main stem, bone, is a reddish color. The leaf itself is green.

YES, there are people trying to grow kratom in USA... YES they have invested their Time and Money. . So of course, they are desperate to SELL this kratom, which is not known to be.... any good!! It's a Novelty... Don't be fooled into buying "USA grown kratom", at least until it's a proven thing. JMHO!

Interesting. I have tried Miraleaf, who grow in the US. Not the best Leaf I’ve had, but it was on par with a lot of the leaf imported from Indonesia.

Same feelings on miraleaf

[herbalhippie]

I was sent some beautiful, fairly large leaves by a member a few years ago. Chewed one, mouth went numb, felt it but not strongly. So bitter!

[Silphium22]

As with any kratom leaf "strain" id be very hesitant to blacklist a strain called bumblebee for the simple fact that strain names mean almost nothing. Im sure the majority of us know that by now.

One of my suppliers provides a bumblebee strain which is incredibly potent. His mitra levels come in around 2% and 7hydrox 0.004/0.003.

Just do your homework.

D

Yet I think there are more posts here about "strains" than anything else! Just do a search for "strains" and see. That confuses me. I learned about that "strain" silliness from the excellent thread here called "the truth about kratom" or something like that, made by a kratom vendor here, as well as another vendor telling me as much over the phone, tho i first deduced as much all by myself by looking at another vendor's website - from a different forum - and all their silly strain names and obviously phony and copious reviews.

Me, I'm just reading about this out of interest for possible future use. Right now I have stopped experimenting with kratom "strains" because I think it is useless because my use of prescription Tramadol (for neuropathy - nerve damage - pain) seems to cancel out its effect.

The fresh leaf seems interesting. At least u know for sure what u r getting. $1 a leaf, that's a high profit business!

[brave777]

As with any kratom leaf "strain" id be very hesitant to blacklist a strain called bumblebee for the simple fact that strain names mean almost nothing. Im sure the majority of us know that by now.

One of my suppliers provides a bumblebee strain which is incredibly potent. His mitra levels come in around 2% and 7hydrox 0.004/0.003.

Just do your homework.

D

Yet I think there are more posts here about "strains" than anything else! Just do a search for "strains" and see. That confuses me. I learned about that "strain" silliness from the excellent thread here called "the truth about kratom" or something like that, made by a kratom vendor here, as well as another vendor telling me as much over the phone, tho i first deduced as much all by myself by looking at another vendor's website - from a different forum - and all their silly strain names and obviously phony and copious reviews.

Me, I'm just reading about this out of interest for possible future use. Right now I have stopped experimenting with kratom "strains" because I think it is useless because my use of prescription Tramadol (for neuropathy - nerve damage - pain) seems to cancel out its effect.

The fresh leaf seems interesting. At least u know for sure what u r getting. $1 a leaf, that's a high profit business!

Its best to use kratom not mixing with any prescriptions. Period. Not only you asking for more WD but tons of side effects. Its also most of them will cancel kratom or give you headaches or something bound to go wrong. It can even be super good but next day your dose has to be doubled... least try to keep them separate.

[Silphium22]

Its best to use kratom not mixing with any prescriptions. Period. Not only you asking for more WD but tons of side effects. Its also most of them will cancel kratom or give you headaches or something bound to go wrong. It can even be super good but next day your dose has to be doubled... least try to keep them separate.

What is "WD"? I didn't perceive any side effects, just that there now seems to be no effect from the kratom. I wish it did add on some good effect because the Tramadol doesn't do much anymore. I was only taking a fairly small dose of kratom, 2 or 3 grams, and I am a fairly large feller.

And strains, why do people keep talking about it as tho it was legit? In fact there's even a section here entitled "Vendor and Strain Reviews".

Here is the thread I was talking about:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2931

[brave777]

wd = withdrawals. Basically side effects... in your case i would highly advice to taper or go tough hell fatigued moment if you can handle it. If you cant you can cheat and i 2 grams here and there to relief the struggles but always do minimum you can. I heard long term tramadol users get brain zaps, if you think you getting that then definitely take some kratom, everyday take less and less, after like 1 or 2 weeks try to jump off completely off of it for at least a week. Yes its a struggle but just be careful and try not cold turkey right away, just expect nothing from it, you already reached your limits. Or there is alot of good thread how to taper, look into that, be it here on double mm or reddit. What i am saying is, its time for a little break, talk to your docter i am sure they might know how to taper as well and they might give something weaker for you to take or something, i dont know. Look around on subjects " How to taper"

[Loveandpeace]

brief update:

The smaller leaves were weaker in effect than the larger ones. The taste is a bit less awful, but it is a hearty leaf that stays around until you decide to spit or swallow. You could put about 4 large leaves in your mouth and chomp away. Ultimately, it becomes like an herbal gum or 'chew' that can be saved in your lip. Me and my gals mouth went numb after 20 minutes.

After keeping the 20 or so leaves in the bag provided in the fridge, it looked like mildew was a real possibility. The shelf life was too quick for all of the fun things I had in mind. I wanted to do like the Indo and Brave mentioned with a big pot and a lot of steeping. Now I have the leaves drying in a paper bag. Is it too late to put some in the sun for a few days? It would need to come out first here in Los Angeles.

It was a really fun experiment but be ready for your product when it arrives, time marches on quickly in botany land.

[Loveandpeace]

A few more pics...

This process, on its own, was worth the money...

[Lokey]

Been trying to share a photo of my two plants but the file size is too large, have had them several months now. They came in styrofoam cups and have been repotted twice and ready for bigger pots again. They are top heavy and I haven't tasted the leaves yet.

[Loveandpeace]

Sounds sweet, I would like to see the growth process.

This site has an easy interface. Drag and drop any image, use the crop tool and ignore every other function. Towards the bottom it will ask for desired size, put 450. Run the process and it will spit out a download link for you.
SEE LINK BELOW

I do not suggest any nudes, I figure the back end of a site like this probably sells your pics.

[Silphium22]

https://imageresizer.com

[Loveandpeace]

Thank you for the correction

[Humble9300]

Hey just a quick question are there any vendors who sell just whole leaf? Also if the bumblebee strain is no good what are the good ones? All natural artisans sells bumblebee strain, and riftrat strain.

Check out Florida Fresh Botanicals. They sell huge leafs. I too think USA Kratom is a novelty and I've never gotten anything out of them. Even with a zero tolerance.

[Sanbutsushin]

As with any kratom leaf "strain" id be very hesitant to blacklist a strain called bumblebee for the simple fact that strain names mean almost nothing. Im sure the majority of us know that by now.

One of my suppliers provides a bumblebee strain which is incredibly potent. His mitra levels come in around 2% and 7hydrox 0.004/0.003.

Just do your homework.

D

Yet I think there are more posts here about "strains" than anything else! Just do a search for "strains" and see. That confuses me. I learned about that "strain" silliness from the excellent thread here called "the truth about kratom" or something like that, made by a kratom vendor here, as well as another vendor telling me as much over the phone, tho i first deduced as much all by myself by looking at another vendor's website - from a different forum - and all their silly strain names and obviously phony and copious reviews.

Me, I'm just reading about this out of interest for possible future use. Right now I have stopped experimenting with kratom "strains" because I think it is useless because my use of prescription Tramadol (for neuropathy - nerve damage - pain) seems to cancel out its effect.

The fresh leaf seems interesting. At least u know for sure what u r getting. $1 a leaf, that's a high profit business!

I think most people here just use "strain" interchangeably with "batch". At least people who've stuck around for a while, very likely know that there aren't 'strains' the way some companies would like us to believe. But it's such common terminology that it ends up being kind of hard to drop.

[brave777]

I just say batch instead of strain, not to confuse people.

[Lokey]

Sounds sweet, I would like to see the growth process.

This site has an easy interface. Drag and drop any image, use the crop tool and ignore every other function. Towards the bottom it will ask for desired size, put 450. Run the process and it will spit out a download link for you.
SEE LINK BELOW

I do not suggest any nudes, I figure the back end of a site like this probably sells your pics.

Lol! No worries about that! Thanks for the tips, it sounds like a bit of work but maybe I'll try, was fooling with my phone trying to see if I can resize them which I was able to do on my desktop for my profile pic. Not sure I took pics in the styrofoam cups though if not I should've.

[Humble9300]

I just say batch instead of strain, not to confuse people.

Same. I don't say "Strain" anymore. I too say "Batch" as well.

[Silphium22]

As with any kratom leaf "strain" id be very hesitant to blacklist a strain called bumblebee for the simple fact that strain names mean almost nothing. Im sure the majority of us know that by now.

One of my suppliers provides a bumblebee strain which is incredibly potent. His mitra levels come in around 2% and 7hydrox 0.004/0.003.

Just do your homework.

D

Yet I think there are more posts here about "strains" than anything else! Just do a search for "strains" and see. That confuses me. I learned about that "strain" silliness from the excellent thread here called "the truth about kratom" or something like that, made by a kratom vendor here, as well as another vendor telling me as much over the phone, tho i first deduced as much all by myself by looking at another vendor's website - from a different forum - and all their silly strain names and obviously phony and copious reviews.

Me, I'm just reading about this out of interest for possible future use. Right now I have stopped experimenting with kratom "strains" because I think it is useless because my use of prescription Tramadol (for neuropathy - nerve damage - pain) seems to cancel out its effect.

The fresh leaf seems interesting. At least u know for sure what u r getting. $1 a leaf, that's a high profit business!

Its best to use kratom not mixing with any prescriptions. Period. Not only you asking for more WD but tons of side effects. Its also most of them will cancel kratom or give you headaches or something bound to go wrong. It can even be super good but next day your dose has to be doubled... least try to keep them separate.

Would anybody have any idea how long I'd have to be off tramadol before i could try kratom again?

[brave777]

Yet I think there are more posts here about "strains" than anything else! Just do a search for "strains" and see. That confuses me. I learned about that "strain" silliness from the excellent thread here called "the truth about kratom" or something like that, made by a kratom vendor here, as well as another vendor telling me as much over the phone, tho i first deduced as much all by myself by looking at another vendor's website - from a different forum - and all their silly strain names and obviously phony and copious reviews.

Me, I'm just reading about this out of interest for possible future use. Right now I have stopped experimenting with kratom "strains" because I think it is useless because my use of prescription Tramadol (for neuropathy - nerve damage - pain) seems to cancel out its effect.

The fresh leaf seems interesting. At least u know for sure what u r getting. $1 a leaf, that's a high profit business!

Its best to use kratom not mixing with any prescriptions. Period. Not only you asking for more WD but tons of side effects. Its also most of them will cancel kratom or give you headaches or something bound to go wrong. It can even be super good but next day your dose has to be doubled... least try to keep them separate.

Would anybody have any idea how long I'd have to be off tramadol before i could try kratom again?

Look up on reddit, see how long it takes for tramadol to wear off. I say not to mix as in take it together at the same time. If you stop Tramadol and take kratom next day, i dont see anything wrong with that. You just might not feel kratom for a while (one week?) but at least your tramadal wd's will be minimum. Once you start feeling kratom that means your tramadol wd's are gone. I am just using logic here and could be off, if anyone had a tramadol transition could help? Never had tramadol. Not much help here.

[Silphium22]

Thanks, Brave. I'm stopping tram and i'm almost at zero. I tried the kratom a few times at the same time i was taking kratom before i read that i'm not supposed to, and the only thing that happened was nothing, but now i'm thinking that perhaps that was because i took the kratom on a full stomach. I think it has more of an effect on me with an empty stomach.

[brave777]

Thanks, Brave. I'm stopping tram and i'm almost at zero. I tried the kratom a few times at the same time i was taking kratom before i read that i'm not supposed to, and the only thing that happened was nothing, but now i'm thinking that perhaps that was because i took the kratom on a full stomach. I think it has more of an effect on me with an empty stomach.

No problem, yes it hits faster and stronger on empty stomach. If you get any nausea or feels to much on empty, eat right away. In fact i believe it best to eat soething small with kratom. Like one egg, or some walnuts or what ever as long as its very little, you will feel better with some food and kratom. If you do only kratom and forget to eat, you might feel shaky, weird because time goes fast on kratom and next thing you know you feel very weak, its hits like a brick. Just make sure to eat after 2 hours. Even after one hour its good to eat. One full hour on empty stomach is peak of kratom. If you barley feel it after one hour, you can add few more grams unless you want to keep tolerance low then just accept what ever you feel. as long as you feel just ok for one week, usually tramadol will wear off after some time and kratom will hit stronger even if you stick with same amount. Reason why its not good to add a bunch of meds and kratom, thats to much for your receptors and you never know what can go wrong, best not to mix. There is not enough study on kratom interactions with meds even thought many still do it. Best to play it safe. Not a good time to end up in a hospital right now. Kratom on its own is plenty enough, you can just increase grams anytime you want if in crazy stress situation. Know your batch as well, fresh fast green/white batches try to start very low, any fast batch if to much can make you go lay down on bed, feel weird. Like always, eat lots of food and it usually goes away after 30 min. Food i noticed always balances unwanted effects. Watch your sugar levels, if feel shaky, always have a sugar source, be it honey, sugar , fruits, Orange Juice what ever works. If your Dr. smart and knows about kratom, you can talk to them as well. Not all Dr's are dumb, some do their study.

Another tip if you eat and kratom at the same time, its ok to increase 3 extra grams. You will feel kratom much better and wont be hungry longer hours.

[Silphium22]

Thanks again. That looks like excellent advice to me.

I took 2 gms kratom before on an almost empty stomach - just had a couple of nuts and a date earlier - but again i don't feel any reaction, but then i still took a small dose of tramadol this morning, and tramadol is still in my system. I'll get off it in a couple of days i hope, and then maybe the kratom might help. How long is it supposed to be until u usually feel an effect from kratom?

A little later: I think i did feel the kratom a little bit today.

[brave777]

Thanks again. That looks like excellent advice to me.

I took 2 gms kratom before on an almost empty stomach - just had a couple of nuts and a date earlier - but again i don't feel any reaction, but then i still took a small dose of tramadol this morning, and tramadol is still in my system. I'll get off it in a couple of days i hope, and then maybe the kratom might help. How long is it supposed to be until u usually feel an effect from kratom?

A little later: I think i did feel the kratom a little bit today.

Thats sounds about right, 2 grams you will barley feel it or not at all. I was thinking your around 4-6 grams, if you take 2 grams you could with coffee, it will stand out better, that barley feel will increase. No Coffee, 4 grams is better. Whats the Highest dose you ever took? Once stop tramadol, dont be afraid to start 4-6 grams. Unless you are not after the feel and just want bare minimum perhaps quit all including kratom later. If you want to feel dont be afraid to go up to 6 grams. From my experience i limit my self 10 grams per day max, sometimes its 3 grams per day other days its 8g, i just try not to go over 10g for the reason if cold turkey, WD's are very easy to over come, if your at 20 or 30 grams, it will be harder to quit. You could 5 g in morning and 5 g after lunch. And repeat everyday. Thats enough to feel and enjoy the feel. if your not feeling at 5 grams, its because of tramadol use, give it sometime and with no tramadol and i am sure 5 grams feel will come back. But you can test and see how you feel at 4 gram start no tramadol. I would link but i quit reddit long time ago, if can search for more info on reddit on transition. they might have more details.

[Silphium22]

I guess I'll try 3 grams today, Brave, but I'm afraid of getting sick. A few years ago when i was experimenting with it i did get nauseous. I am trying to take it for my nerve pain, but yesterday i felt only a very slight effect from the 2 grams but no pain relief. Hopefully i'll get some today as i'm having a bad day. I'm fairly big, muscular feller so i guess i should take more rather than less...or is less more?

What do you mean by coffee? Is that - what's the word? - an accelerator? I only drink coffee in the AM, but I could take it with decaf if that would help.

I think maybe the highest dose i ever took was 3 1/2 grams a few years ago. I've really experimented with it very little so far, but now I am starting again. What is the dose to take for pain? It varies with everyone I know...and uh oh this thread is supposed to be about fresh green leaves! Am I hijacking it? Can my off-topic posts be moved elsewhere? I'm sorry...

[brave777]

I guess I'll try 3 grams today, Brave, but I'm afraid of getting sick. A few years ago when i was experimenting with it i did get nauseous. I am trying to take it for my nerve pain, but yesterday i felt only a very slight effect from the 2 grams but no pain relief. Hopefully i'll get some today as i'm having a bad day. I'm fairly big, muscular feller so i guess i should take more rather than less...or is less more?

What do you mean by coffee? Is that - what's the word? - an accelerator? I only drink coffee in the AM, but I could take it with decaf if that would help.

I think maybe the highest dose i ever took was 3 1/2 grams a few years ago. I've really experimented with it very little so far, but now I am starting again. What is the dose to take for pain? It varies with everyone I know...and uh oh this thread is supposed to be about fresh green leaves! Am I hijacking it? Can my off-topic posts be moved elsewhere? I'm sorry...

Kratom over take side effects don't last long, maybe 2 hours tops? Yes nauseous is common if over take it. One thing never forget, is avoid all fast batches. There is green and white batches that are not fast at all, on those you can easy go 6 grams per dose, i dont think you will feel anything or very little if its 2 grams a dose. One example would be Lucky's fast green and white. Those from lucky stay under 2 grams 100% no matter what anyone says. I been a user since 2014 and Lucky's vendor is the only one i had to always stay under 3 grams. Any other vendor even fast once i could go to 3 or 4 or even 5grams, most i had is feeling weird, it messing with eye vision and most common one is nauseous . None of them was life threatening and was short term side effect. I just eat food and drink water, to balance it out where bad side effects from over taking disappear. You could boil your self a gal of chopped up organic ginger, if ever feel nauseous, drink half a cup and it goes away. Not once i had where ginger didnt help. It a must juice in fridge for all kratomites, and kratom abusers.

For nerve pain, have you ever considered trying red kratom? I dont think i ever had a fast red that made me go lay down. Its oxidized leaf outside so less potent, there for dont have to worry about getting nauseous or it being to fast for you. Red kratom you can easy go 6 grams, and not feel nauseous, if never done it, you can try 4 grams , if still nothing, try 5, if still nothing stick with 6. From now on i never go over 6 grams a dose. 6 is plenty enough to feel it unless it complete junk weak kratom then you can aim going all the way to 10 grams per dose. If still nothing, perhaps its not kratom, toss it in trash. If you got bad nerve pain, hate to break it to you but 2 grams wont cut it. For bad nerve pain, minimum 3 grams maybe even 4 grams depending on a batch. If i broke my leg or had a bad nerve pain, i would be taking 6 grams a dose of red. Or green and white but i will make sure its not a fast batch. In fact greens are the strongest for pain, you just have to find a batch that is not a fast one. Make you aim at mid spec description or slow spec for greens, avoid all fast batches. You can even try white kratom but most whites are fast, if you can find a mid spec, try it.

What i mean by coffee? Yes it acts as an accelerator and at the same time you feel kratom more standing out, it bring out the best out of kratom, maybe because caffeine is perfect synergy. Main point, if you going to stick with low dose like 2 grams, its best to add an accelerator. Decaf will work too. If you going up to 6 grams a dose, avoid coffee until you get to know kratom better.

No, dont worry, you not hi jacking anything, this forum is made to help people so its normal if sometimes sways in subjects. If Hippi thinks it needs to be else where she will take care of it. There is no stupid questions, ask any, the faster you ask questions the better you will feel. Remember, its better to start low like 2 grams , and add 1 gram every hour to see where you at. You cannot UNDUE 10 grams in one dose, so take it easy and very safe approach by adding 1 gram every hour. or new dose increase by .5 or 1 gram. Its very safe this way.

From now on "LESS IS MORE" i think it should be referred to fast batches. Not to confuse people. From my experience most fast batches gave me nauseous. Sometimes i prefer fast once to get up and start the days, other days for pain or evening days i prefer mid spec but MORE. like 4-6 grams. There are batches that don't give you nauseous, if you can find them then you better off. On those you can take more and will be better pain relief. This reason why Red is more safe to start with until you find mid or slow fresh green leaf. 2 grams is very light stimulant and barley works for pain. If can i would aim for 6 grams but first see how you feel with 4 grams. Or talk to your Dr. .

Later once you get good and understand kratom better, you could add .5 grams of fast batch to a slow red to spice it up for better moods. Its very easy to waste your burn and do a bad mix blend. At start its better to stick plain batches and not mix blend kratom. Unless you can't help your self and wish to experience the rainbow ride. Avoid extracts.

[Silphium22]

u r very helpful, Brave. I don't really understand what a "fast batch" is. I can testify that u r very right about ginger being great for anti-nausea and motion sickness. I was ready to give up on kratom until i read your latest because this morning i took 2 grams of Texas Family Harvest "deep jungle red pmd", which i had read on this forum is good for pain - tho i also read on this forum that the various strains r all basically all t same thing - along with coffee, and it did nothing, but i guess it was too small a dose. Yesterday tho i took 3 grams of some "red bali" that i had once obtained from a place called EntheoFarm, and that also did nothing. I've been taking it wrapped in rice paper (oblate). Guess i need to try more - but on the TFH package it says "use 1-2 grams on an empty stomach. Max 4 grams in 24 hours".

What is your opinion of making it into a tea? I think that may be gentler on my insides.

And...if the 2 or 3 grams had shown even a little HINT of helping it would have been encouraging...

[IndelibleDotInk]

u r very helpful, Brave. I don't really understand what a "fast batch" is. I can testify that u r very right about ginger being great for anti-nausea and motion sickness. I was ready to give up on kratom until i read your latest because this morning i took 2 grams of Texas Family Harvest "deep jungle red pmd", which i had read on this forum is good for pain - tho i also read on this forum that the various strains r all basically all t same thing - along with coffee, and it did nothing, but i guess it was too small a dose. Yesterday tho i took 3 grams of some "red bali" that i had once obtained from a place called EntheoFarm, and that also did nothing. I've been taking it wrapped in rice paper (oblate). Guess i need to try more - but on the TFH package it says "use 1-2 grams on an empty stomach. Max 4 grams in 24 hours".

What is your opinion of making it into a tea? I think that may be gentler on my insides.

And...if the 2 or 3 grams had shown even a little HINT of helping it would have been encouraging...

Kratom dose size is notorious for being different for different people, and even different for the single person at different times or immediate body chemistry status.

Making a tea is a great idea; generally you must increase the kratom amount significantly.

To start, it will be very helpful to get a milligram scale from Amazon, they cost around $10-15 and you can figure out a consistent dose.