Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hi All,

I managed to get my hands on some of that fire RB1 from Socal the other day. I am not a daily user, I usually take twice a week with either 2 or 3 days off inbetween each dose. The first time I took the strain on Monday it was absolutely incredible, one of the best burns I've had. I was excited to take again, but the second time I took it...I felt nothing at all. Well basically it felt like a dose of kratom without the mood lift and euphoria. I know about less is more and understand that at a certain point the antagonists overcome the agonists and block the opiate receptors. But TBH I really didn't take that much more than I did the first time so it seems strange that it would make such a dramatic difference.

Here is how I dosed each time. I have recently been convinced to buy a scale and I haven't received it yet so I am aware that even though I am using the same scooper there could be a noticable difference in amounts. However I do pack in the kratom as tightly as possible so I can measure somewhat accurately.

Monday
0:00 - 1 full teaspoon scoop and 1/2 teaspoon scoop
2:00 - 1 full teaspoon scoop
3:00 - 1/3 teaspoon scoop

Effects came on strong and I got a boost of increased effects with each subsequent scoop

Thursday

0:00 - 1 full teaspoon scoop and another one 80% full
1:45 - 90% full teaspoon scoop
3:15 - 2/3 teaspoon scoop

This time I got no mood lift or euphoria from the initial dose, then after the second dose I did get mild mood lift but was short lived and then absolutely nothing the 3rd time.

Both times I took initial dose at the same time of day, both times I had not eaten for 3 hours prior to dosing and did not eat for ~90 minutes after taking. Both times I took about 200mg of curcumoids 45 minutes before initial dose and a small amount of magnesium nitrate.

Again about dosage, I understand that I need to measure more accurately, but I guess I'm wondering can a small increase of dose (lets say 0.5g) really make the difference between extremely good effects and very little effects? Also with redosing hours later, does anyone have experience with the first dose not working and then a later dose working? It's strange that the additional dosing improved the burn the first time but did very little the second time.

Thanks for reading!

This seems to happen to me quite often. I will get a new to me strain and the 1st time I use it, it's fantastic...then subsequent doses are not nearly as effective, at least as far as euphoric type effects are concerned. Pain relief always stays the same, pretty much. I assume it's just the brand new profile of alkaloids hitting receptors a bit differently with a brand new leaf. I am just thankful that pain relief is not effected in the same way (as that is my main reason for Kratom use).

This is particularly frustrating, when you get a sample, and LOVE it, then order more only to have it fall flat on next use. In these cases, I just write on the bag that it is "good" and put it away for a good long time. Usually, after a LONG time away from that particular leaf, It will again provide "first time" type effects. AS I mentioned, pain relief is my reason for use, and I dose often. I have accepted the fact that there is a tolerance issue with Kratom a long time ago, and am just thankful it provides the relief that it does. Anything other than Pain Relief I just consider a short lived BONUS.

That's happened to me more times than I can count. First dose is incredible, second and subsequent doses are underwhelming.

herbalhippie wrote:That's happened to me more times than I can count. First dose is incredible, second and subsequent doses are underwhelming.

So to both replies above, you find that the 2nd dose is more indicative to how future doses of the strain will be? If so that's super disappointing as this is supposed to be the strain that everyone is loving right now.

Do you think doing some mixing with other strains might help reignite the effects of the original strain?

Edit: I guess I'll give the RB1 one more try at a smaller dose and then move on.

demafrost wrote:So to both replies above, you find that the 2nd dose is more indicative to how future doses of the strain will be?

For myself, no, but I rotate strains and colors DAILY, and once a particular strain fades a bit, I push that into the background. When I buy kratom, I tend to buy bigger sizes of what I know will work well for me, and sample sizes of what I've never tried or I don't know about, with an emphasis on samples. That way I never have to dose the same strain twice: there's always something to mix in or take out of the current rotation.

Do you think doing some mixing with other strains might help reignite the effects of the original strain?

YES, absolutely! Blending that meh strain with something else -- even another meh strain -- will frequently produce something that is actually greater than the sum of its parts. Sometimes it falls flat, sure, but more often than not it's a pleasant surprise.

But to blend effectively, and get the most out of your leaf, you REALLY need a scale. Doses are measured in grams and subgrams -- there's way too much variation in density for you to get more than educated guess out of measuring spoons. This is the one I use, but there are many to choose from. Seriously, get a scale. A good one is around $10 and you won't regret it.

Hope this helps!

the 1st time I use it, it's fantastic ... then subsequent doses are not nearly as effective,

Seems to happen across the board. I still buy, a LOT of different stuff .. and definitely agree with this!

What to do about it? I agree with Labdog3 "New Alkaloid Profile" hitting the receptors just a bit different .. Common sense then, would be to rotate as much as possible .. AND as widely as possible! Not repeating the same strain .. once a week? monthly? Crazy to think you'd need 50 good strains .. But the variety is out there. Look on the map, Aceh, Sumatra, is a long long way from

Last week .. my tolerance is pretty high. Really up there .. SoCal RB1 ( gets high praise from everyone ) was good, not great as 1st time about a month ago. OK then! Time for a re-set .. 1 week taper with Agmatine I'll drop a gram a day, down from 6-7 currently which is too high. I'll get down to a minimal dose I can barely feel, 2g or less.. with Agmatine.. hold that for like 3 days.

BOOM! Drop the Agmatine and back on Regular 4+ gram dose, rotating many strains daily .. Everything will feel "new again" yaayy !!

demafrost wrote:

herbalhippie wrote:That's happened to me more times than I can count. First dose is incredible, second and subsequent doses are underwhelming.

So to both replies above, you find that the 2nd dose is more indicative to how future doses of the strain will be? If so that's super disappointing as this is supposed to be the strain that everyone is loving right now.

Do you think doing some mixing with other strains might help reignite the effects of the original strain?

Edit: I guess I'll give the RB1 one more try at a smaller dose and then move on.

I got a Super Wild Green from Garuda that blew me away the first couple times and then was just ok after that. I put it away for a month, maybe as much as six weeks, got it out again a couple days ago and it was just like the first time.

You need to rotate a LOT of strains if you want the magic often.

So I have about 5 strains i'm rocking right now. I'll try cycling through them each time. Just seems weird that this is the first strain that this has happened to me with in ~1 year of taking kratom.

BallzDeep9 wrote:1 week taper[/b] with Agmatine I'll drop a gram a day, down from 6-7 currently which is too high. I'll get down to a minimal dose I can barely feel, 2g or less.. with Agmatine.. hold that for like 3 days.

BOOM! Drop the Agmatine and back on Regular 4+ gram dose, rotating many strains daily .. Everything will feel "new again" yaayy !!

Whoa, what a great idea. I've avoided even -trying- agmatine because everyone says it really reduces the mood enhancing features of kratom and "makes every strain feel the same" but it never occurred to me that it would work this well taken in short bursts, in tandem with a taper.

I take frequent mini-breaks -- skipping a day here or a dose there -- but I could see this being really useful information.

One thing I'd like to know, though: how much agmatine are you taking? Also how often, and in what form (caps, powder mixed in liquid, etc)? If I do agmatine I'll probably get the powder off Amazon, but I'd like to know the particulars of how you're using it so successfully, if you have a minute. Thanks!

Once again, you're -always- here with the good info, Ballz. Very much appreciated.

BallzDeep9 wrote:

the 1st time I use it, it's fantastic ... then subsequent doses are not nearly as effective,

Seems to happen across the board. I still buy, a LOT of different stuff .. and definitely agree with this!

What to do about it? I agree with Labdog3 "New Alkaloid Profile" hitting the receptors just a bit different .. Common sense then, would be to rotate as much as possible .. AND as widely as possible! Not repeating the same strain .. once a week? monthly? Crazy to think you'd need 50 good strains .. But the variety is out there. Look on the map, Aceh, Sumatra, is a long long way from

Last week .. my tolerance is pretty high. Really up there .. SoCal RB1 ( gets high praise from everyone ) was good, not great as 1st time about a month ago. OK then! Time for a re-set .. 1 week taper with Agmatine I'll drop a gram a day, down from 6-7 currently which is too high. I'll get down to a minimal dose I can barely feel, 2g or less.. with Agmatine.. hold that for like 3 days.

BOOM! Drop the Agmatine and back on Regular 4+ gram dose, rotating many strains daily .. Everything will feel "new again" yaayy !!

THIS!...A near perfect plan/suggestion...I have done this, but rarely, since I dose for Pain...But for most, if you follow Ballz suggestion, it WILL work! It'll be like the first time you kissed a pretty girl...you'll get all warm and happy inside.

demafrost wrote:So I have about 5 strains i'm rocking right now. I'll try cycling through them each time. Just seems weird that this is the first strain that this has happened to me with in ~1 year of taking kratom.

Don't know how much of that RB1 you may have, but I would be happy to make a trade with you for a little bit. (was wanting to try "that special batch" just to see what all the hoop-la was about) I can send you several strains so you can up your rotation count a little. I have a "zillion" different "kinds" of leaf, I'm sure we could come up with a few things you would like. I don't like to say "strains" really, because all the different things I have are not really all different strains, just different blends somebody "named". But I'm sure you know that. Just a thought.