Does Agmatine ruin the aroma (euphoria)?

[deathwithafi]

I read on the wiki on Reddit that it will help with tolerance so you can take lower doses and it will help with staving off dependency. I've seen anecdotal reports that people that use it lose the euphoria or "aroma" as I've come to learn it's called. Any experience or clarification would be appreciated. I bought a large bottle off of Amazon but don't want to use it if it will ruin the aroma. Thanks.

[Cuttlefish]

For me, yes, it blocks euphoria. It does help with taking days off, and I hear it helps with the painkilling effects, but I don’t take it for pain.

It actually blocks it so well, it helps me take days off kratom, because if I take it in the morning I know there is no point in dosing until at least the next day. Anecdotally, I think it burns my tolerance away quicker than a day off without it, but the day of is more important than the agmatine. Hope that all makes sense.

Also, when I took it like two weeks straight to take a long break, I found it took a few days after to get the euphoria back, the agamatine must build in system.

I imagine someone somewhere still gets euphoria while taking it, but not me

[BallzDeep9]

Use the Search Bar "Agmatine" read like 2 years of Agmatine discussions on MM... for example HERE ~ The main takeaway is, Cycle the stuff for a week along with a taper down. Use Agmatine only at night. Never take kratom at night, that's another discussion, but you want good effects? Euphoria? Keep your receptors fresh and GPD low! Less is More!

Side Effects of taking too much kratom, overloading your mµ receptors? Sedation, feeling tired, NO Euphoria and very little mood lift.. When you're getting intra dose withdrawals, feeling tired most of the time, and kratom only gets you back to "normal" then, you have over-loaded your receptors... Filled up your bucket to overflow. Your receptors are drowning. Important: NO amount of taking more & more kratom, will work! Only taking Less kratom.... either go cold turkey (Not recommended!) OR, taper down over several days. Use the Agmatine at night during this taper down. Use Black Seed Oil also.. Take Gabapentin also at night, to stop RLS.. Take sleep aids like melatonin and valerian at night. The Goal? A 2-day break. Just 48 hours break can restore Euphoria and good effects!! starting back at 1-2 grams... the whole taper down/ break cycle, can be done in 1 week.

Chronic Pain people are in a different zone with kratom.... Chronic Pain folks don't need or GET "euphoria", they need pain relief. They can't or don't take breaks and, must manage their receptors to optimize effects - Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills, so Agmatine is used daily to give greater pain relief, and keep kratom dose LOW ~ Even with a different purpose, it's the same Goal = Less is More.

[instantKARMA]

Chronic Pain people are in a different zone with kratom.... Chronic Pain folks don't need or GET "euphoria", they need pain relief. They can't or don't take breaks and, must manage their receptors to optimize effects - Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills, so Agmatine is used daily to give greater pain relief, and keep kratom dose LOW ~ Even with a different purpose, it's the same Goal = Less is More.

My primary goal is pain relief and much of the euphoria I get is definitely a result of pain reduction...any other
positive effects are icing on the cake! I've found that keeping my servings at 3-3.5 grams no more than 4 times
in a 24 hour period provides the best of both worlds!

[deathwithafi]

For me, yes, it blocks euphoria. It does help with taking days off, and I hear it helps with the painkilling effects, but I don’t take it for pain.

It actually blocks it so well, it helps me take days off kratom, because if I take it in the morning I know there is no point in dosing until at least the next day. Anecdotally, I think it burns my tolerance away quicker than a day off without it, but the day of is more important than the agmatine. Hope that all makes sense.

Also, when I took it like two weeks straight to take a long break, I found it took a few days after to get the euphoria back, the agamatine must build in system.

I imagine someone somewhere still gets euphoria while taking it, but not me

It does, and thats what I was afraid of, but it's good to know that I can take it on my days off and it will reset my receptors.

[deathwithafi]

Use the Search Bar "Agmatine" read like 2 years of Agmatine discussions on MM... for example HERE ~ The main takeaway is, Cycle the stuff for a week along with a taper down. Use Agmatine only at night. Never take kratom at night, that's another discussion, but you want good effects? Euphoria? Keep your receptors fresh and GPD low! Less is More!

Side Effects of taking too much kratom, overloading your mµ receptors? Sedation, feeling tired, NO Euphoria and very little mood lift.. When you're getting intra dose withdrawals, feeling tired most of the time, and kratom only gets you back to "normal" then, you have over-loaded your receptors... Filled up your bucket to overflow. Your receptors are drowning. Important: NO amount of taking more & more kratom, will work! Only taking Less kratom.... either go cold turkey (Not recommended!) OR, taper down over several days. Use the Agmatine at night during this taper down. Use Black Seed Oil also.. Take Gabapentin also at night, to stop RLS.. Take sleep aids like melatonin and valerian at night. The Goal? A 2-day break. Just 48 hours break can restore Euphoria and good effects!! starting back at 1-2 grams... the whole taper down/ break cycle, can be done in 1 week.

Chronic Pain people are in a different zone with kratom.... Chronic Pain folks don't need or GET "euphoria", they need pain relief. They can't or don't take breaks and, must manage their receptors to optimize effects - Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills, so Agmatine is used daily to give greater pain relief, and keep kratom dose LOW ~ Even with a different purpose, it's the same Goal = Less is More.

I did use the search function, thank you. Also on Reddit. It's good to know it will help on the days off, but since I'm just getting into kratom I've taken the last 4 days off cold turkey with no issues (I've been through opiate withdrawal before and have no desire to go through anything similar again). I know you were talking to the other poster but I used to be prescribed gabapentin and pregablin, I don't like the dissociative peppy, but tired feeling. I will keep that in mind though. Thank you both. I started kratom mainly for euphoria, just got my STH order and am about to dose 5.12g of Red Glow.

[mitragy9]

For me any nmda antagonism kills the euphoric mood lifting properties of kratom even a small dosage of dxm will result in this too. Hell even magnesium taken to close to my dose has had this effect as well. Where I notice agmatine to give the best of both worlds is to only take it before going to bed. It will reduce tolerance slightly and will be mostly out of your body by morning, with this I've noticed pretty great potentiation and amazing euphoria the following morning. I also don't take very much only 1g or less about 20 mins before bed. If it's killing your burns give this a try, if it's still doing it take half(500mg) the amount of the agmatine.

[gepetto33]

Never take kratom at night, that's another discussion

Did you mean for the cycle down? If not, then id like to hear some elaboration on this....

Honestly, i don't (personally) see a reason to take Kratom any time other than in the evening.

[mitragy9]

Never take kratom at night, that's another discussion

Did you mean for the cycle down? If not, then id like to hear some elaboration on this....

Honestly, i don't (personally) see a reason to take Kratom any time other than in the evening.

Kratom is perfectly fine to take at night lol just keep in mind how frequently you're dosing. It also could potentially cause sleep disturbances if taken too close to falling asleep however I've never experienced that at all. Pretty much all opioids kratom included knock me out and I sleep like a baby. I now only take kratom 3 or 4 hours before going to bed just to help keep tolerance down a bit while still helping me fall asleep.

[gepetto33]

Kratom is perfectly fine to take at night lol just keep in mind how frequently you're dosing. It also could potentially cause sleep disturbances if taken too close to falling asleep however I've never experienced that at all. Pretty much all opioids kratom included knock me out and I sleep like a baby. I now only take kratom 3 or 4 hours before going to bed just to help keep tolerance down a bit while still helping me fall asleep.

Ok, just making sure there wasn't some kind of elaborate reason for this. I'm definitely a strong advocate of less is more, my gpd is between 3-6, plus i take off 48 hours per week. Part of this discipline comes from only taking it at night.. whereas people who take it for work as an example will start relying on the habit to make it through the day. If i did so then i'm sure it would be much harder to break from than just dosing at night.

[mitragy9]

Ok, just making sure there wasn't some kind of elaborate reason for this. I'm definitely a strong advocate of less is more, my gpd is between 3-6, plus i take off 48 hours per week. Part of this discipline comes from only taking it at night.. whereas people who take it for work as an example will start relying on the habit to make it through the day. If i did so then i'm sure it would be much harder to break from than just dosing at night.

Yeah just do what works for you. Kratom has a vast number of potential uses and not everyone takes it for the same reasons. I know many people that solely use it as a sleep aid and it works great for them. I mainly use it for chronic pain and addiction recovery purposes somewhat like Medication-assisted treatment(MAT.) I also know plenty of people that use it for just getting enough energy to complete their work days. Kratom is a very versatile substance with it's usage and medicinal properties.

[Playerpiano72]

Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills

This may be true overall, but I've had experiences where opioids don't or barely work (specifically hydrocodone), but kratom does, and very well. Conventional wisdom would suggest otherwise, but it really surprised me. A combination of ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and kratom works best for me for pain relief. Perhaps something more potent than hydrocodone, like morphine or oxycodone would be a different story. But good luck getting any of those prescribed in this day and age, unless you buy them on the black market at an incredible mark-up.
Sorry for off topic. I have nothing relevant to say about agmatine

[Frostyjayjay]

I'm definitely a strong advocate of less is more, my gpd is between 3-6, plus i take off 48 hours per week

I dose the exact same as you. Once per day, usually 4 grams. Occasionally on days where I can stay up later I'll take another 2 before bed so I'm always at 6 gpd or less and I also take a 48 hour break from Friday until Sunday. I don't get much in the way of euphoria most times and really haven't since I started. Occasionally I'll have a really good burn where I do, but not often. I think a lot of it also depends on your body. What you put into it that day. Your sleep. Your overall mental well being that day. I've found on days where I am quite stressed, the burn seems to be better than days where I'm already feeling good. Not quite sure why, and that could totally just be a mental thing going into the burn. Hydration is also key. People always talk about it because it really makes a difference. My burns are always better when I am properly hydrated as well.

[mitragy9]

Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills

This may be true overall, but I've had experiences where opioids don't or barely work (specifically hydrocodone), but kratom does, and very well. Conventional wisdom would suggest otherwise, but it really surprised me. A combination of ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and kratom works best for me for pain relief. Perhaps something more potent than hydrocodone, like morphine or oxycodone would be a different story. But good luck getting any of those prescribed in this day and age, unless you buy them on the black market at an incredible mark-up.
Sorry for off topic. I have nothing relevant to say about agmatine

I find kratom to have much more potent analgesia than lower potency prescription pain pills like hydrocodone. It obviously lacks the euphoric effects of full agonists but still carries extreme pain relief. I find it to give better pain relief than 20mg of oxycodone as far as getting rid of bad pain. It won't produce that euphoric feeling though. People forget mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine have a very high affinity to the μ-opioid receptor higher than morphine. They just happen to be partial agonists and found in very small concentrations in the actual kratom leaf. They are by no means weak in any sense of the word they just can't be abused in the same way traditional opiates and prescription pain pills can be abused. I once completely ran out of kratom and decided I would use some of the left over hydrocodone for my pain. I ended up taking 40mg and felt absolutely nothing no reduction of pain and it didn't even cover up the minor detox symptoms from running out.

[Luis2387]

Kratom is NOT as strong as opioid pain pills

This may be true overall, but I've had experiences where opioids don't or barely work (specifically hydrocodone), but kratom does, and very well. Conventional wisdom would suggest otherwise, but it really surprised me. A combination of ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and kratom works best for me for pain relief. Perhaps something more potent than hydrocodone, like morphine or oxycodone would be a different story. But good luck getting any of those prescribed in this day and age, unless you buy them on the black market at an incredible mark-up.
Sorry for off topic. I have nothing relevant to say about agmatine

I find kratom to have much more potent analgesia than lower potency prescription pain pills like hydrocodone. It obviously lacks the euphoric effects of full agonists but still carries extreme pain relief. I find it to give better pain relief than 20-30mg of oxycodone as far as getting rid of bad pain. People forget mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine have a very high affinity to the μ-opioid receptor higher than morphine. They just happen to be partial agonists and found in very small concentrations in the actual kratom leaf. They are by no means weak in any sense of the word they just can't be abused in the same way traditional opiates and prescription pain pills can be abused. I once completely ran out of kratom and decided I would use some of the left over hydrocodone for my pain. I ended up taking 40mg and felt absolutely nothing no reduction of pain and it didn't even cover up the minor detox symptoms from running out.

This is why people think kratom is the end all be all... that claim that krstom has better pain killing effects than a 30 oxy its BULLSHIT ...like really??? ...its one of the stupidest claims I've ever heard, and its what get people to tske 20 30gs chasing that dragon thats they'll never catch.... ignorance its the biggest disease in the world and this is the proof...stupidity its a close 2nd

[Playerpiano72]

Sorry you disagree, but be civil about it. I literally just got prescribed hydrocodone earlier this year for an injury, and it didn't help my pain. Kratom did. I wasn't taking any opioids before. I don't know why it worked that way, but that's what happened. I wouldn't have thought so before either, but I have person first hand experience. I can forgive your skepticism, but it's not bullshit or stupidity, and it's certainly not ignorance. I don't even understand why you think that. Bring some sort of evidence to back up your incredulity next time.

Also, taking 20-30 grams of oxy would be lethal. I think you meant milligrams.

[mitragy9]

This is why people think kratom is the end all be all... that claim that krstom has better pain killing effects than a 30 oxy its BULLSHIT ...like really??? ...its one of the stupidest claims I've ever heard, and its what get people to tske 20 30gs chasing that dragon thats they'll never catch.... ignorance its the biggest disease in the world and this is the proof...stupidity its a close 2nd

I'm talking in terms of pain relief not subjective effects(EUPHORIA/SEDATION/LOWERED INHIBITION/STIMULUS) as far as getting rid of pain kratom does a fucking amazing job at doing it and yeah maybe not 30mg but for sure 10mg-20mg. I've used both kratom works better for my pain and a lot of people seem to agree. Obviously oxycodone will fuck you up way more than any amount of kratom ever would but with lower dosages(10mg-20mg) your pain will still be there you just don't care about it. Also you do realize there isn't just opioids in kratom right? There is a concoction of various alkaloids some being muscle relaxants/antispasmodics. It's also been found to have notable anti inflammatory properties. Kratom is very complex substance and is a miracle for certain types of pain but feel free to disagree. If you actually read my original post I was giving MY experience with MY pain and medication use. Also it's kind of funny that you're calling me stupid when your post is filled with spelling mistakes.

[Tongue]

I'm definitely a strong advocate of less is more, my gpd is between 3-6, plus i take off 48 hours per week

I dose the exact same as you. Once per day, usually 4 grams. Occasionally on days where I can stay up later I'll take another 2 before bed so I'm always at 6 gpd or less and I also take a 48 hour break from Friday until Sunday. I don't get much in the way of euphoria most times and really haven't since I started. Occasionally I'll have a really good burn where I do, but not often. I think a lot of it also depends on your body. What you put into it that day. Your sleep. Your overall mental well being that day. I've found on days where I am quite stressed, the burn seems to be better than days where I'm already feeling good. Not quite sure why, and that could totally just be a mental thing going into the burn. Hydration is also key. People always talk about it because it really makes a difference. My burns are always better when I am properly hydrated as well.

Kratom is a better pain killer for me than Vicodin and OxyContin. I'm not kidding you, I've had chronic back pain for years. Vicodin and OxyContin would put a dent into it but Kratom reduces 90% of it. I couldn't even begin to explain why but it simply does. Oh btw, my long term use of OxyContin worsened my chronic back pain 5 fold. I forget the term for it but it's widely known in medical circles.


Agmatine was a huge disappointment though as initially I heard it not only reduced Kratom tolerance but greatly enhanced the aroma. So I started taking Agmatine for a few days and I noticed my Kratom burns not producing any sort of mood lift at all. Kratom seemed to have no effect at all when I was taking Agmatine. I ditched the Agmatine asap

Agmatine does have a good use though when you are running low on Kratom or you want to quit.

[mitragy9]

Kratom is a better pain killer for me than Vicodin and OxyContin. I'm not kidding you, I've had chronic back pain for years. Vicodin and OxyContin would put a dent into it but Kratom reduces 90% of it. I couldn't even begin to explain why but it simply does. Oh btw, my long term use of OxyContin worsened my chronic back pain 5 fold. I forget the term for it but it's widely known in medical circles.

I think it's known as "Opioid-induced hyperalgesia." This has been my experience as well. Oxycodone did not help my pain as much as kratom has. It also led directly towards abuse because of the euphoric nature of potent full agonist opioids. The original formula was also so easily abused it was crazy. This then led to stronger pills like Opana(oxymorphone) and then eventually years later to heroin. Kratom lends it self towards certain types of pain much better than traditional opiates and semi-synthetic opioids.

[Tongue]

Kratom is a better pain killer for me than Vicodin and OxyContin. I'm not kidding you, I've had chronic back pain for years. Vicodin and OxyContin would put a dent into it but Kratom reduces 90% of it. I couldn't even begin to explain why but it simply does. Oh btw, my long term use of OxyContin worsened my chronic back pain 5 fold. I forget the term for it but it's widely known in medical circles.

I think it's known as "Opioid-induced hyperalgesia." This has been my experience as well. Oxycodone did not help my pain as much as kratom has. It also led directly towards abuse because of the euphoric nature of potent full agonist opioids. The original formula was also so easily abused it was crazy. This then led to stronger pills like Opana(oxymorphone) and then eventually years later to heroin. Kratom lends it self towards certain types of pain much better than traditional opiates and semi-synthetic opioids.

That's it, I was too lazy to look it up lol. I remember towards the end of my oxy use, the pain I had in my back and other places was just amplified. It led me to think "there's no way I can stop taking pain Meds if my pain is that bad on them!". Then 3-4 months off oxy abd my chronic pain was so much lesser than what it was. I hear folks complain of how bad their pain is even though they are on mountain size doses of oxycodone, fentenyl etc ..I bet they are dealing with opiod induced hyperalgesia but convincing them of it is impossible. Them living a life without opiods just is not a possibility


I recommend everyone that has opiate addictions to try Kratom. It can be abused of course but it's much more sustainable than a heroin or Vicodin habit. I have gotten a few folks off heroin by using Kratom but they end up going back to the needle.