Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:59 pm**

Have you found your LED = Lowest Effective Dose?

Mine is now One gram! Morning dose empty stomach. Last two days of a taper down break. I took like 5 days taper before a couple days break. I'm now starting back @ 1.5g morning and 1g later, total 2.5 gpd... My goal for kratom is energy and mood lift. Only 1g of quality TFH leaf, was enough to feel a good buzz actually... I want to keep enough headroom in my receptors, so any time I can take a double serving and know it'll really hit the spot.

Kind of surprised I could drop down this way, and still feel such a low Serving?

Before taper I was around 6 gpd, two servings.. (A couple years ago I was up-to 7g dose and 20 gpd!) Of course those using kratom for other reasons, chronic pain, or taking large doses for opiate addiction, etc - may need a longer taper and find their LED to be higher.. Someone else might need 2 weeks in order to up-regulate their receptors.. using Agmatine etc.

I have prepped my powder using a 3-Step Method (Heat +Acid +Freeze), and made a wonderful Red Bubble Tea. Using these large 16 oz measuring tumblers which are printed with markings, both cups and ML to easily get the correct dose... Very soon I'll have these measuring tumblers, for sale on Trading Post, as part of a Red Bubble Tea Kit.

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:36 pm**

Hey Ballz! I've found my LED to be 2g! But I will say, 1g is also good, but, depending on strain, too much energy for me. Of course, if I need it for my neck, it's usually a 3g serving, and rarely more than 2x a day. Happy Sunday!

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:06 pm**

Mine was .75 for like two years, now 1.5

I should try to drop it.

Congrats!

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:06 pm**

Just wanted to express how much i love this post. I'm 13 years removed from being a serious alcoholic, and while I was fine with being sober, 10 whole years... The only downside was battling my lifetime of chronic back/neck pain. Kratom didn't save me like it did for some people (my girlfriend being one of them)... but i'll be damned if it didn't enrich my life and expand my horizons. I can go longer into the night pursuing my work & crafts, without pain and fatigue (from said pain). Or.. i can have really fun, blissful nights, at home with this mrs, doing not much. It's such a treasured discovery that i happily pay my penance for the sake of keeping my tolerance and dependence low, always.

While i won't pass judgement, i am slightly mortified to see how much people take a day on here

. Honestly i don't see how folks can feel anything at all taking 20g a day, but.... that's the great thing about kratom - finding what best way to make it work for you. It would be nice to pop 5g, 4x a day, but i personally would be doing myself a disservice.

So my LED is about right at 1g, same as the OP. This is cultivated from careful management, in addition to weekly breaks (48 hours). I'm thinking i'd like to experiment more with these advanced potentiators, so i can enjoy it more, while still taking less! Love that somebody brought up this topic.... Cheers!

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:36 pm**

I still remember the guy at the head shop where I first bought Kratom telling me he usually recommends starting out with 1 or 2 grams. Then he looked me over and said I should try 3 or 4 (I'm not fat, I'm big boned lol). When I got home I took 3 grams, felt nothing, and assumed I wasted 30 bucks or whatever it was. Couple days later I tried it again with 4 1/2 grams and after a bit was surprised to feel something. It was subtle, just a little mood lift, but enough to make me think it was worth pursuing.

Long story short (and another 30 bucks later) I found that 6 grams was the sweet spot for me. Gave me almost as much pain relief as a couple Aleve, but with the mood lift added in it felt more effective than any OTC stuff I had.

Ballz or Ben, do you remember how many grams you took the very first time you felt Kratom working for you? I'm curious if your LED has dropped over time.

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:44 pm**

gepetto33 wrote:While i won't pass judgement, i am slightly mortified to see how much people take a day on here

Absolutely, no judgement, its about spreading the word to help everyone enjoy kratom more. I read on Reddit and FB, it's seems the majority of ppl are doing it all wrong? Chasing the dragon, then complaining about "strains" vendors not working etc... Strange finicky plant, due to so many different alkaloids.. everyone must find their own balance. For energy and euphoria... Too much leaf I get the opposite, a tired feeling after it wears off.

I'm old enough to remember Camel Cigarettes advertising: Are you smoking more, but enjoying it Less?

They ran ads on TV and magazines for years using this slogan. (EDIT to remove repetitive Camel image, see Quote below.)

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:24 pm**

BallzDeep9 wrote: I'm old enough to remember Camel Cigarettes advertising: Are you smoking more, but enjoying it Less? They ran ads on TV and magazines for years using this slogan.

Hah, bingo! While cigarette ads are very fucked up just by nature, this one still has a good lesson.... and one i'm abiding to currently. I just recently decided to leave my vendor of 3 years and seek out one with more consistent, better quality leaf. Hence what led me here! Sticking to my dogma of lower dosage + frequent breaks i figured it was worthwhile make sure i was still enjoying myself.. whereas with the old place i kind of hit a wall with his product. I know you have a lot experience with potentiators and tolerance reducers - so would you have any suggestions for supplementing the kratom experience, keeping the dosage and tolerance low, etc?

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:50 pm**

gepetto33 wrote:Hah, bingo! While cigarette ads are very fucked up just by nature, this one still has a good lesson.... and one i'm abiding to currently. I just recently decided to leave my vendor of 3 years and seek out one with more consistent, better quality leaf. Hence what led me here!

Yep. 30 year ex- smoker here. I guess the idea was, you'll chain smoke less, by switching to a better quality tobacco?

. So yes imo that does apply here too!! Just lookin around social media, seeing all the 30 gpd users out there & seems the overall kratom quality has dropped with Cargo shipments, and gas station leaf... When I started dabbling in 2016, was told start @ 3g, loved it immediately but went through the typical dragon chasing routine... Got up around 6g dose & 12 to 20 gpd for, maybe a year? Getting intra dose withdrawals & other side effects, irritable, night sweats, etc. Finally figured out Less Is More.

Two things I mix into my liquid kratom, Red Bubble drink: Mag Citrate, and a vitamin C w/ citrus bioflavanoids, which is Calcium Ascorbate. So I'm getting both calcium and magnesium. Lot of anecdotes on Reddit, saying Mag does potentiate. Actually it's a proven booster for morphine in hospital setting. Soaking the kratom, C and Mag, together in fridge makes it all more bioavailable...

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:57 pm**

My LED is 1g in the mornings on an empty stomach as well. It's amazing how less is more. I've found myself taking big 4-5g doses and honestly, it doesn't feel any different than 2-3g. Just more sides.

Would you mind sharing more information about HEAT ACID FREEZE technique? Would appreciate it!

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:30 am**

you guys are making me feel bad about my 4g doses lol

I really do need to work my way down, i miss the 2g doses i got down to after being one of those 40gpd idiots while coming off my loperamide addiction lol

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:41 am**

What a great topic threat Ballz....

As a newbie to Kratom (May 2020) I am just now beginning to see and understand the less is more aspect of this magical leaf. When I started I didn't own a scale so I was using my regular tablespoon from the silverware drawer. My results were very hit and miss with that method so like all of us noob's I posted in FB groups and almost everyone suggested buying a jeweler's scale off Amazon which I did. Now I give this recommendation to other newbie's that post questions with dosing issues. I don't really remember how many grams I started with once I had the scale, I'm thinking 3-5g possibly. Recently I was taking between 4-5g each dose and again they were very hit or miss for me again. Started doing research, branching out with new vendors, becoming more aware of food/water intake, and also added mag citrate or oxide and a probiotic for constipation.

I am still working on my LED right now but taking 2.7g is working beautifully for me. I would like to think I could drop that even lower and experience the same great results. I too take Kratom for mood lift and to keep my past addictions at bay. I don't suffer from chronic pain like most here do. Now that I'm seeing how well such a small dose works for you I have the confidence to try this for myself. Thank you so much for posting such an informative thread. I think a lot of people will benefit from this information, I know I have!!

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:49 am**

KurtisCards wrote:you guys are making me feel bad about my 4g doses lol

I really do need to work my way down, i miss the 2g doses i got down to after being one of those 40gpd idiots while coming off my loperamide addiction lol

Don't need to feel bad about it man. I think most people are more similar to you. It's great if you can take as low doses as these, but as Ballz noted there are many factors. Most important is trying to take the least amount possible for you personally.

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:26 am**

KurtisCards wrote:you guys are making me feel bad about my 4g doses lol

I really do need to work my way down, i miss the 2g doses i got down to after being one of those 40gpd idiots while coming off my loperamide addiction lol

Loperamide lol, I'm ashamed to say I used a ton of that garbage before I knew about kratom. There were times where I thought I would have to go to the hospital due to the horrific constipation that imodium would cause(worse than pod tea.) I'm lucky I didn't die of a heart attack from using that horrible stuff.

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:29 pm**

BallzDeep9 wrote: Two things I mix into my liquid kratom, Red Bubble drink: Mag Citrate, and a vitamin C w/ citrus bioflavanoids, which is Calcium Ascorbate. So I'm getting both calcium and magnesium. Lot of anecdotes on Reddit, saying Mag does potentiate. Actually it's a proven booster for morphine in hospital setting. Soaking the kratom, C and Mag, together in fridge makes it all more bioavailable...

Sweet! I already have all this stuff, so it's just a matter of adding the mag to the mixture and refrigerating. Also i'm with the other guy - curious about this red bubble tea HEAT, ACID, FREEZE method you speak of.

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:36 pm**

Pete2000 wrote: Ballz or Ben, do you remember how many grams you took the very first time you felt Kratom working for you? I'm curious if your LED has dropped over time.

Hey Pete! I took 1.5-2 grams for the first 4 years or so. I started taking much more when I started having issues with my neck. Anything LESS than 2g now can give me crazy anxiety, even make my heart race!? It's not absolutely strange to me tho, because cannabis has the same effect. Thankfully, I'm having neck surgery in a couple of weeks, so hopefully the nerve pain won't be an issue anymore!!

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:49 pm**

There are many Red Bubble topics on Reddit, I posted this Recipe LINK - aka 3-Step Prep, Heat +Acid +Freeze.

This IS now a growing "movement" in the kratom community. No more silly toss n wash.

Prep or "brew" your raw kratom powder, as a kitchen table Extract to get max benefit from the alkaloids inside plant cells... makes kratom seem 10% to even 50% stronger per weight. More bio-available means, hits faster and harder compared to swallowing raw powder. Plus, the Heat step kills bacteria! A recent Medium article LINK is very good. There is now, even a Red Bubble Tea group on Facebook.

Here's the basic Recipe. Use MM Search Bar for more details, as we've discussed past 2 years. Read Extract thread HERE.

Red Bubble Tea: aka 3-Step Prep - start with dry powder 6+ grams in coffee cup.

Heat: Boil some water. Take pan off burner 1 min. Pour 190º over your powder. Stir well.
Acid: 1+ full Tsp ACV, and or Tsp pure Lemon Juice. Add to cup and Stir well. Cover to cool.
Freeze: After cool down, put cup in Freezer 10+ hours. Hard Freeze!

Next day, Red Bubble... Thaw. Stir the black liquid. Pour in 16-oz measuring tumbler, or beer glass.

Add Juice, vitamins, flavoring: Apple or pineapple. Add a dash of Milk. Top Off with 1 squirt MiO flavor.

Add ½ Tsp Magnesium Citrate, plus Calcium ascorbate. Chill in fridge. Makes 2-4 servings at a time! Kratom hits much harder with alkaloids, more bio-available. You have also sanitized your raw powder! Please adjust this recipe for your serving size.

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:27 pm**

I can get good effects off of 1 gram the question is how long doesn’t that burn last. For my unfortunately 1 gram last about 10 min

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:25 pm**

LuckyHerbals wrote:
Pete2000 wrote: Ballz or Ben, do you remember how many grams you took the very first time you felt Kratom working for you? I'm curious if your LED has dropped over time.
Hey Pete! I took 1.5-2 grams for the first 4 years or so. I started taking much more when I started having issues with my neck. Anything LESS than 2g now can give me crazy anxiety, even make my heart race!? It's not absolutely strange to me tho, because cannabis has the same effect. Thankfully, I'm having neck surgery in a couple of weeks, so hopefully the nerve pain won't be an issue anymore!!

I'm so jealous of all the low dosers.

Good luck with the surgery, hope you're feeling better soon!

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:28 pm**

BallzDeep9 wrote: Red Bubble Tea: aka 3-Step Prep - start with dry powder 6+ grams in coffee cup....

Had the opportunity to start the process this afternoon. We'll see how it turns out here shortly!

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am**

About a year and a half ago I was 20+ grams per day, and I wasn't really feeling my doses anymore. In fact, kratom kind of made me feel depressed throughout the day at those high levels. I got my LED down to ~1.5g and kept my total daily dose (TDD?) under 5 grams. The kratom magic came back and stayed

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:20 am**

559511E2-E8E7-4215-8EAC-D60169E742B8.jpeg

The infamous bubble... not bad for a first go, eh?!

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:53 pm**

gepetto33 wrote:The infamous bubble... not bad for a first go, eh?!

Yes! Lookin' good gepetto, is that ACV or Lemon juice? U can also Google kratom red bubble, click Images, its all over the Internet!

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:32 pm**

BallzDeep9 wrote: Yes! Lookin' good gepetto, is that ACV or Lemon juice? U can also Google kratom red bubble, click Images, its all over the Internet!

ACV! Figured of the two my Braggs ACV was fresher than my refrigerator lemon juice. I was just satisfied to see the chemical reaction "bubble" had taken place, to let me know i'd done it right. Going to take the dose tonight, so we'll see how it feels!

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:19 pm**

I'm hoping to get my doses down soon. I've been floating around 20 GPD, which is much further down from a stint of pretty ignorant use earlier this year, but I suppose I've just been content here and have been putting off the taper. I have tried taking 1-3g doses from time to time just to see if I can get away with it, but it seems like it's just barely enough to keep the withdrawals at bay for a little while, and I inevitably end up doing more. The thought of getting full effects off of such a small amount is alien to me. There's a part of me that doesn't believe it's even possible for me, but I'm sure there are others who have put their bodies through more than me and still manage to do it, so we'll see, I suppose.

I've never had much luck with the red bubble tea... It tastes awful and never really made much of a difference to me, lol.

Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

LED = One Gram! Lowest Effective Dose?

LED = One Gram! Lowest Effective Dose?

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