Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

In recent days, I have been experimenting with the Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA).

Intended Purpose: opioid tolerance reduction. While it is not in itself a cannabinoid, it does modulate cannabinoid receptors (CB1/CB2). It is well known that cannabinoids (CBD, THC, etc.) reverse opioid tolerance.

Results so far: opioid tolerance reduction this substance had provided me thus far has been superior to anything else I have ever tried, including the DLPA and Agmatine. It also boosts the effects of cannabinoids.

Negative Side effects: none thus far.

Dosage: 300 mg of Palmitoylethanolamide shortly after my last daily Kratom dose. Second morning dose will be implemented upon further testing.

It does NOT seem to interfere with Kratom's effects at all, even if taken simultaneously with Kratom, unlike most other tolerance reducers.

I have noticed a boost in Kratom's effects on the day following Palmitoylethanolamide intake. The withdrawal symptoms are also reduced to nearly zero, which was not the case before. Especially at 20 grams per day.

Why bother with your tolerance in the first place?

*Lower dosages

*Increased effects

*NO withdrawals

The reason that the initial magic of Kratom is lost with time is indeed tolerance! Bring that magic back without much effort and pain. Better life through chemistry.

*Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is NOT the same as the Phenethylamine (PEA), they are two completely unrelated substances.

Please, do not take the latter.

*If any supplement that you take causes you any physical or mental discomfort, discontinue that supplement immediately!

very interesante

where did you buy this from?

KurtisCards wrote:very interesante

where did you buy this from?

The best prices on Palmitoylethanolamide are on Amazon.com

Here is the one that I have been using, it is the most cost effective one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0777MDGPC/

More interesting info on Selfhacked:

https://selfhacked.com/blog/palmitoylethanolamide-pea/

There is a LOT of research available on this substance.

Interesting, i wonder if I can find palmiotoylethanolamide just by itself, if not then this is probably the best way to go. I just worry about putting things into my body im not too sure about, kratom intake bugs me after seeing GumbyKe1’s video about how they process the leaf, its pretty rudimentary how they make kratom. Hopefully KC and GGK farmers have a cleaner way to process their leaf, they are my favorite vendors

gravystainonmyshirt wrote:Interesting, i wonder if I can find palmiotoylethanolamide just by itself, if not then this is probably the best way to go. I just worry about putting things into my body im not too sure about, kratom intake bugs me after seeing GumbyKe1’s video about how they process the leaf, its pretty rudimentary how they make kratom. Hopefully KC and GGK farmers have a cleaner way to process their leaf, they are my favorite vendors

They do have it in bulk, but it is more expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Tested-Ultra-mic ... B07NJ7Z2LS

There is a lot of research available on this amide. All of it is positive, and it has no known toxicity or negative side effects.

In any case, its opioid tolerance reversing capacity is absolutely astounding! I have gone on a Kratom binge to test it, blocks withdrawals completely, its crazy. Alas, this is all very new, its effects could change for the worse. Although, it has been mentioned in research that they are [effects] actually cumulative. Methinks this one is really too good to share. I doubt this topic gets much traction, its just not exciting enough, and I shall keep this little jewel all to meself.

Hmm, very interesting, thank you!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4385605/

Someone took out a patent

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2944309A1/en

Theanine wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0777MDGPC/
.

Says it's good for chronic pain as well.

Click click click wait....I have one click ordering.

Click thank you for your order!

Life Extension makes good supplements. I used them when I was dealing with breast cancer instead of the tamoxifen they offered me. Who wants to trade breast cancer for possible uterine cancer?

herbalhippie wrote:Hmm, very interesting, thank you!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4385605/

Someone took out a patent

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2944309A1/en

WOW, good find, Herbalhippie!

A hidden treasure perhaps?

Use of palmitoylethanolamide in combination with opioids

Abstract

This invention relates to a pharmaceutical composition for human or animal use containing N-palmitoylethanolamide as an analgesic in combination with opioids.
In particular, this invention relates to palmitoylethanolamide in non-micronized form, in micronized form (PEA-m), in ultra-micronized form (PEA-um) or mixtures thereof, for use in humans or animals in combination with an opioid in the treatment of pain conditions, wherein said palmitoylethanolamide is administered separately, sequentially, or in combination with said opioid.


Maybe a perfect adjunct to our Kratom that we have been searching. Well, I have been.
If it is being patented, there could be a very good reason for it.

The conclusion of this research study: Delay of Morphine Tolerance by Palmitoylethanolamide

Multiple properties of PEA converge to an interaction with signals evoked by morphine (any other opioid). The evidence of a delayed development of tolerance to the antinociceptive effects of morphine in the presence of PEA suggests a possible application of this endogenous compound in opioid-based therapies.

So far, I have been experimenting on myself with great results. I do know what to expect from various tolerance reducers, but this one packs a punch. Frankly, I was just poking in the dark when I got it, read that research paper you pointed out. Never expected this level of addiction reduction, I mean come on, no pain, no gain right? I thought that the DLPA and Agmatine was as good as they got. This one has an added bonus of making your medical cannabis work really, really well too

Theanine wrote: I thought that the DLPA and Agmatine was as good as they got. This one has an added bonus of making your medical cannabis work really, really well too

Theanine, do you use Life Extension ComfortMAX in addition to the DLPA and Agmatine, or just
the Life Extension ComfortMAX on it's own?

Thank you for bringing this to our attention!! Just ordered the Life Extension PEA....
Those of us who have ordered should compile our results!

Thanks so much for sharing this! Just put my 1-click through.

Theanine wrote:Never expected this level of addiction reduction, I mean come on, no pain, no gain right? I thought that the DLPA and Agmatine was as good as they got. This one has an added bonus of making your medical cannabis work really, really well too

Let me chip in here, Thanks for your research on this stuff.. It's gonna prove valuable to lots of folks. Still haven't found my sweet spot on Agmatine, or the whole tolerance reduction thing.. but will try some of your ideas.

I wasn't even aware that Cannabis is considered as affecting opioid tolerance? Being here in OR, WA, the Northwest #1 weed capital.. will definitely look into it! Mainly anything to help morning kratom wd? I do have some Indica Co2 extract and gonna experiment using that, before bedtime...

I don't remember seeing they were low on stock when I ordered earlier but there's only ONE left now!

edit: nvm, looks like they restocked.

conscious_conundrum wrote:Thank you for bringing this to our attention!! Just ordered the Life Extension PEA....
Those of us who have ordered should compile our results!

Yeah, let's keep this thread going.

I've been a wee bit upset about having to raise my dose the last few months. I still dose low, but I was hoping to keep it lower. Can't really do a long tolerance break. Maybe this will help.

Would this be the same thing?

Palmitoylethanolamide Capsules | Micronized Pea | 400mg Pills | 30 Count | Supports Pain Relief | Natural Anti Inflammatory | Sciatic and Back Pain Reliever | Therapeutic Neuropathy Support https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCCHJBV/re ... sDbCMX0V02

Oh my, would you look at that. Another substance that I'm probably going to be spending money on.

Great find, Theanine. The research looks promising, I'm curious to know how that study on delaying morphine tolerance translates to our beloved kratom. I'd imagine that it's got to be pretty well transferrable. Only one way to find out! I'll just add that to my already hard-to-stomach order on ND for the sake of experimentation.

This thread certainly got some traction. I would like to address several previous posts.

instantKARMA wrote:

Theanine wrote: I thought that the DLPA and Agmatine was as good as they got. This one has an added bonus of making your medical cannabis work really, really well too

Theanine, do you use Life Extension ComfortMAX in addition to the DLPA and Agmatine, or just
the Life Extension ComfortMAX on it's own?

Yes, I did indeed chose the Life Extension's ComfortMAX for a variety of reasons. It is the most cost effective product that I have found which maintains the purest quality of ingredients. This specific formulation version includes something called Honokiol, which is a lignan isolated from the bark, seed cones, and leaves of trees belonging to the genus Magnolia. A VERY interesting chemical in its own right, it is found in the ComfortMAX's evening formulation which comes in the same package as the AM formula which only has the Palmitoylethanolamide. I am yet to try the Honokiol, I do not want to add too many chemical substances to the mix yet, but I will be adding it to my evening regimen soon.

I do still take the DLPA at 500 mg to 1000 mg per day, and I rarely take the Agmatine as it does interfere with Kratom's effects if taken close together. It might be that this Palmitoylethanolamide should only be taken apart from Kratom as it has its own pain reducing properties, much like the DLPA, it might be especially helpful for the people with chronic pain as it seems to target the very source of it.

I would need to run several stress tests to feel out its full potential, but thus far it is clear, it is of great benefit. After a full day of Kratom dosing and taking the 300mg of Palmitoylethanolamide at the conclusion of it, now nearly 12 hours after my last dose, there is zero WD's. To be fair, I do take medical cannabis every evening, and I believe that the Palmitoylethanolamide, being a cannabinoid modulator, also boosts the already formidable tolerance reducing effects of various cannabinoids and terpenes.

BallzDeep9 wrote:

Theanine wrote:Never expected this level of addiction reduction, I mean come on, no pain, no gain right? I thought that the DLPA and Agmatine was as good as they got. This one has an added bonus of making your medical cannabis work really, really well too

Let me chip in here, Thanks for your research on this stuff.. It's gonna prove valuable to lots of folks. Still haven't found my sweet spot on Agmatine, or the whole tolerance reduction thing.. but will try some of your ideas.

I wasn't even aware that Cannabis is considered as affecting opioid tolerance? Being here in OR, WA, the Northwest #1 weed capital.. will definitely look into it! Mainly anything to help morning kratom wd? I do have some Indica Co2 extract and gonna experiment using that, before bedtime...

No problem, my friend, I do enjoy doing this for myself as well as for the benefit of our community! Cannabis most definitely reverses opioid tolerance, it is a MUST for any opioid user, or anyone else for that matter. Ever tried smoking some weed during an opioid withdrawal? Takes the edge right off!. Yes, some super critical carbon dioxide full spectrum extract is just what the doctor ordered!

herbalhippie wrote:

conscious_conundrum wrote:Thank you for bringing this to our attention!! Just ordered the Life Extension PEA....
Those of us who have ordered should compile our results!

Yes, let us keep this thread going.

I've been a wee bit upset about having to raise my dose the last few months. I still dose low, but I was hoping to keep it lower. Can't really do a long tolerance break. Maybe this will help.

Good idea, let us start compiling our results in this thread to see which dosing patterns are the most optimal. This method is a great way to reduce your Kratom dosage, I shall be following that pattern. However, for now, we need a few more stress tests just to see how effective this substance really is in the long term. So, a few more Kratom binges for the benefit of all! Poor me....

Lambeezy wrote:Would this be the same thing?

Palmitoylethanolamide Capsules | Micronized Pea | 400mg Pills | 30 Count | Supports Pain Relief | Natural Anti Inflammatory | Sciatic and Back Pain Reliever | Therapeutic Neuropathy Support https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCCHJBV/re ... sDbCMX0V02

YES, it most definitely is. Although, this is not the most cost effective formulation.

DrFappingston wrote:Oh my, would you look at that. Another substance that I'm probably going to be spending money on.

Great find, Theanine. The research looks promising, I'm curious to know how that study on delaying morphine tolerance translates to our beloved kratom. I'd imagine that it's got to be pretty well transferrable. Only one way to find out! I'll just add that to my already hard-to-stomach order on ND for the sake of experimentation.

Thank you, sir. This one is well worth the expense. I believe that the opioid tolerance reduction is universal. We all have the same opioid receptors in our brain, and they do get triggered by various opioids, but the receptors themselves are obviously the same for morphine, heroin or even our beloved here plant. Now, obviously Kratom is far more harmless than any other known opioid, but it is not 100% harmless, especially at higher doses.

Timing advisory: I would like to clarify this point, it is not yet known if the Palmitoylethanolamide is to be consumed WITH your Kratom dose as most opioid tolerance reducers tend to diminish the opioid effect if taken simultaneously with the target opioid/opiate. This very well may be the case with this substance. I did try it Today closer to my last daily dose, and it did seem to diminish it. So, for now, as part of my regular regimen, I will only be taking half a tablet (300mg) after my last daily Kratom dose and wait at least 8 hours until my next dose, possibly longer if I choose to skip my nightly dose, which I often do, especially with this chemical in the mix.

Let us continue this effort, more to follow!

Very impressive Theanine,
Thank you so much for sharing this!

I’m (becoming) a huge Herb and Nootropics advocate more and more and I gotta say, not bad not bad At All!

With Kratom in my life I enjoy reading and learning MUCH MORE as a hobby and I hope to learn a lot this week about this ‘PEA’.

Before I order a form myself I would also like to say, that I’m extremely interested by how this impacts many of each of us who go ahead and try it out.

Please keep this Thread going... Would love to see the results!!

If I take some Wednesday night, and wake up Thursday without a runny nose, I'll be happy.

Payshince wrote:Very impressive Theanine,
Thank you so much for sharing this!

I’m (becoming) a huge Herb and Nootropics advocate more and more and I gotta say, not bad not bad At All!

With Kratom in my life I enjoy reading and learning MUCH MORE as a hobby and I hope to learn a lot this week about this ‘PEA’.

Before I order a form myself I would also like to say, that I’m extremely interested by how this impacts many of each of us who go ahead and try it out.

Please keep this Thread going... Would love to see the results!!

No worries, anything for the community! I have been into nootropics (and research chemicals) since the late nineties, so over 20 years of experience with those. Still, I only take Acetyl-L-Carnitine with Alpha GPC as my Acetylcholine/Glutamate pathway enhancers, no need to go any further as the results quickly diminish. You can only do so much with the A/G axis. Anyways, this is a topic for a different discussion. Here is some food for thought for anyone interested in a better life through chemistry:

https://www.biopsychiatry.com

herbalhippie wrote:If I take some Wednesday night, and wake up Thursday without a runny nose, I'll be happy.

I'm reading up on honokiol which is in the PM version of the LE ComfortMAX I ordered. Says you need to be careful with it if taking anticoagulants. I've been taking baby aspirin for a long time and recently started taking D3 with K2, which has anticoagulant properties.

After finding this out last night I tried to cancel my order and just order plain PEA but it was too late to cancel.

herbalhippie wrote:I'm reading up on honokiol which is in the PM version of the LE ComfortMAX I ordered. Says you need to be careful with it if taking anticoagulants. I've been taking baby aspirin for a long time and recently started taking D3 with K2, which has anticoagulant properties.

After finding this out last night I tried to cancel my order and just order plain PEA but it was too late to cancel.

Very interesting information. You should still be able to refuse the order. On the day of its intended delivery, go into your order on Amazon and click refuse delivery, they will stop the delivery process at that point and refund you the money soon after.

Having said that, I still think that you should at least try it, perhaps it would offer its own set of benefits. I also take the D3 and the K2 as Menatetrenone and Menaquinone, as well as the K1.

Well, I'm going to refuse the order and I'm about to order plain PEA.

If you guys come back and say man, you HAVE to try the formulation with honokiol, then I'll re-think it.

herbalhippie wrote:Well, I'm going to refuse the order and I'm about to order plain PEA.

If you guys come back and say man, you HAVE to try the formulation with honokiol, then I'll re-think it.

I will be testing the Honokiol with the Palmitoylethanolamide tonight. I simply wanted to establish a baseline with just the Palmitoylethanolamide before combining it with anything else. The Honokiol is added to this formulation as they are believed to actually synergize with each other!

Also, the Honokiol has some depressive action and it is the reason why it is in the ComfortMAX PM formula and not the AM one. I could always use something extra to make me sleepier in the evenings.

I've got my own kratom blend that puts me right out so I don't need anything else.

So is this stuff supposed to actually reduce your tolerance or is it supposed to keep your tolerance from developing further?

Lambeezy wrote:Would this be the same thing?

Palmitoylethanolamide Capsules | Micronized Pea | 400mg Pills | 30 Count | Supports Pain Relief | Natural Anti Inflammatory | Sciatic and Back Pain Reliever | Therapeutic Neuropathy Support https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCCHJBV/re ... sDbCMX0V02

This is the one I ended up ordering.

Theanine wrote:

herbalhippie wrote:Well, I'm going to refuse the order and I'm about to order plain PEA.

If you guys come back and say man, you HAVE to try the formulation with honokiol, then I'll re-think it.

I will be testing the Honokiol with the Palmitoylethanolamide tonight. I simply wanted to establish a baseline with just the Palmitoylethanolamide before combining it with anything else. The Honokiol is added to this formulation as they are believed to actually synergize with each other!

Also, the Honokiol has some depressive action and it is the reason why it is in the ComfortMAX PM formula and not the AM one. I could always use something extra to make me sleepier in the evenings.

So can you tell the PEA is working? How much does it block effects?

herbalhippie wrote:

Lambeezy wrote:Would this be the same thing?

Palmitoylethanolamide Capsules | Micronized Pea | 400mg Pills | 30 Count | Supports Pain Relief | Natural Anti Inflammatory | Sciatic and Back Pain Reliever | Therapeutic Neuropathy Support https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCCHJBV/re ... sDbCMX0V02

This is the one I ended up ordering.

The best deal: Life Extension Pea Discomfort Relief 60 chewable Tablets for $19.33:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NPSQ41T/re ... sDbKQPXT5C

Ordered some this morning after reading the post. Sounds promising. Thanks for sharing this Theanine.

I’ll be ordering this and giving it a try. Thanks for sharing!

herbalhippie wrote:So is this stuff supposed to actually reduce your tolerance or is it supposed to keep your tolerance from developing further?

Apparently, it does both quite well!

Lambeezy wrote:

Theanine wrote:

herbalhippie wrote:Well, I'm going to refuse the order and I'm about to order plain PEA.

If you guys come back and say man, you HAVE to try the formulation with honokiol, then I'll re-think it.

I will be testing the Honokiol with the Palmitoylethanolamide tonight. I simply wanted to establish a baseline with just the Palmitoylethanolamide before combining it with anything else. The Honokiol is added to this formulation as they are believed to actually synergize with each other!

Also, the Honokiol has some depressive action and it is the reason why it is in the ComfortMAX PM formula and not the AM one. I could always use something extra to make me sleepier in the evenings.

So can you tell the PEA is working? How much does it block effects?

I do not take it with my Kratom dose, I take it a couple of hours after my daily Kratom dose, then I do not re dose for at least 8 hour, more if I choose to skip my nightly dose which I do most of the time. Daily tapering works for me. I take my tolerance reducers during this daily break. You could try taking it in the morning closer to your Kratom dose, it may not affect it, it is still largely unknown as I have only attempted it one myself, and it did seem to diminish the Kratom's effects to some degree, as do most other effective tolerance reducers (DLPA, Agmatine, etc.)

As to your second question about its efficacy, it is undoubtedly reducing my opioid tolerance. Perhaps, more effectively than anything else that I have tried. As a result, I require less Kratom and achieve better effects.

I hope that I have satisfied your query.

MorriesWigs80 wrote:I’ll be ordering this and giving it a try. Thanks for sharing!

jabro70 wrote:Ordered some this morning after reading the post. Sounds promising. Thanks for sharing this Theanine.

Don't mention it, it is something I enjoy doing! Try it yourselves, and report your results back here. Remember, this is not some magic pill that will make everything awesome, it is just another tool in our tool belts, a desperately needed one at that, if you ask me.

PS: Pea Discomfort Relief. What? Talk about terrible marketing!

herbalhippie wrote:Life Extension makes good supplements.

Durk Pearson, pushin' 80 now ? Book was popular 40 years ago. Interesting to watch these goofs getting really really OLD! . Yes, their supplements are good quality.. Yes, they are also usually over-priced!

herbalhippie wrote:

Lambeezy wrote:Would this be the same thing?

Palmitoylethanolamide Capsules | Micronized Pea | 400mg Pills | 30 Count | Supports Pain Relief | Natural Anti Inflammatory | Sciatic and Back Pain Reliever | Therapeutic Neuropathy Support https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCCHJBV/re ... sDbCMX0V02

This is the one I ended up ordering.

Right behind you, @herbalhippie. Let's see what it does!

BallzDeep9 wrote:

herbalhippie wrote:Life Extension makes good supplements.

Durk Pearson, pushin' 80 now ? Book was popular 40 years ago. Interesting to watch these goofs getting really really OLD! . Yes, their supplements are good quality.. Yes, they are also usually over-priced!

I do not recall putting an eye-rolly thing in my original comment, Ballz.

Yes, they are expensive. Although, they seem less expensive than they were in the early 2000s. More in line with other companies now.

So the whole idea here is to be able to lower your dose, right? This will be my first experience with a tolerance reducer.

Ill wait until i hear back from herbalhippie or ballz , im just so noid about trying supplements, if it works out guys be sure to post k, im sure you will of course, i just hope i dont miss it. Im very curious about it though,

Oh, I'll post for sure. Getting mine Thursday.