Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

and it says they're not currently accepting any orders.

Anyone heard anything about this vendor?

Seems like they're dropping like flies lately.

I emailed them just earlier today but haven't gotten a response back yet. It's pretty concerning considering what's happening to vendors all over the place. I have a couple ideas of what's going down.

According to BallzDeep in another thread, it sounds like one of the issues is quality control, which isn't too surprising since the rainy season typically yields lower quality kratom. Any leaf that's left to dry outside gets repeatedly rained on, which likely seeps some of the alkaloids from the leaves. Additionally, it extends the drying process by a lot, increasing exposure to sun and degradation of the alkaloids. Leaves dried indoors won't be affected much, but for most leaves this is no bueno. The more scrupulous vendors won't even sell this low quality leaf, which might explain why some vendors don't seem to be restocking much. Maybe the global demand for kratom has exceeded Indonesia's ability to produce decent kratom during the wet season.

But there's a second and more outrageous explanation for the sudden drop in active vendors, and I'll admit that this is mostly speculation on my part. I think Gottlieb's FDA now realizes that it doesn't have the support of Congress, the DEA, or any other governmental body in its quest to outlaw kratom. It's only recourse now is to unilaterally use what power it DOES have to obstruct and harass the kratom industry. It's using the supposed Salmonella outbreak, real or invented, as justification for this. I believe they are forcing certain vendors into a very tough situation, demanding that they recall insane volumes of product. The targeted vendor then has to make one of two decisions: (1) comply with the FDA and possibly go bankrupt, or (2) enter a long, expensive legal battle which may also lead to bankruptcy and doesn't guarantee success anyway. In the meantime, the FDA demands numerous samples for lab testing and temporarily shuts down the company, which I believe we may be seeing now. I know this is happening to at least one company (whom I contacted directly to find this out), but I think it may be happening to others too. I'm concerned that the list will continue to grow.

Obviously the scenario I just described, if true, is really concerning. We've known for a long time that Gottlieb has strong personal ties to the pharmaceutical industry, and he's thus liable to load up his FDA with yes-men all serving the will of their corporate owners. If they have an anti-kratom agenda, which I think they clearly do, then it would be quite easy to look at the thousands of Salmonella cases in the US, find a handful where the patient just HAPPENS to use kratom, then use these cases to "prove" that certain kratom is tainted and go after the associated vendors. Just like we saw with the FCC and the repeal of net neutrality, I think we're seeing a rogue, corrupt government agency that no longer exists to protect people but to maximize profit and control for its owners, the pharmaceutical companies. It seems like Gottlieb's FDA is willing to lie and abuse its power to achieve this end.

This is super messed up, but I think it might be the reality we live in. If anyone has any additional or contradictory information, I'd really like to hear it. I think we need to stay vigilant, share what we know, and unite to shed light on the truth. We might be up against a very strong opponent in our fight for the truth about kratom.

I just received their Mega Sampler pack yesterday. I ordered on 4-24.

Global demand for kratom has exceeded Indonesia's ability to produce decent kratom during the wet season.

Maybe. All we really know, is that both demand and production are way up over the past few years.. Hard to say, without real hard facts & statistics.. I'd be very interested to know: How much kratom was sold and consumed in the USA, last year? Who is keeping track - the AKA? Does anyone know if AKA has released ball-park figures on USA consumption? I've heard "millions of users" ??

We DO know a few things... There ARE now over 200 Online Vendors selling kratom, mostly part-time.. And many, many Retail outlets across the USA. So based on numbers, for # users we can estimate probability of things like safety issues, contamination, and... Salmonella. The FACT we've had only 100 (?) cases of reported illness, supposedly due to kratom... over let's say the past 2 years? Should tell us that bulk powder kratom is relatively safe. That's been the basis for my position, on many debates I had with Nerds on reddit last year. Kratom has a proven safety profile given it's known history.

We DO know that a few "Large Vendors" have publicly stated recently, they are doing a voluntary discard, of sub-par product.. Before selling the product! - A few examples I know of: SoCal Herbal Remedies reported this on their Facebook page. Socal is dumping a huge quantity, for their own quality control - they are NOT involved with any FDA recall afaik .. Also last week, Herbaldom posted on their Blog - they are also dumping product, and Herbaldom IS a vendor known for high quality leaf.. This vendor also, imports large shipments of product, and we can assume many tons of leaf could be involved. There is NO information connecting Herbaldom, with any FDA recall!!

However - Other large vendors like Herbal Salvations, Soap Korner, Kraken, and Triangle (a company connected to Gaia Ethnobotanical.) - have either shut down ordering recently, and or, been listed by FDA or CDC as being connected in some manner with proven contaminated product. We have removed most of the (above) companies from the monthly Vendor List.

There are still many good vendors, open for business, testing any NEW product before selling the product on their website... Botanical Bunny, Canopy Botanicals, Fresh Alternative, Herbal-RVA, Kats Botanicals, Kratom-OG, Kraydo Organics, Okie Kratom, Oregon Kratom, Precious Mitre, Treasure House

I was completely unaware of of the situation with SoCal and Herbaldom and probably would not have known if you hadn't posted. Interesting turn of events.

I'd be very interested to know: How much kratom was sold and consumed in the USA, last year? Who is keeping track - the AKA? Does anyone know if AKA has released ball-park figures on USA consumption? I've heard "millions of users" ??

https://youtu.be/dk9-EpmLl2M
According to the importer in that video (05:50), who doesn't mention where he these found these figures, it's estimated that in the US, there are 3-5 million daily users and 80 tons (72,574.8 kg) are imported daily.

If my math is correct, that's an average of 14.5-24.2 grams per day per person (5.29-8.8 kg per person per year). That happens to be spot-on for me, but overall this sounds a little high. Of course this doesn't account for product sitting iddle in warehouses, store shelves, consumer hoarding, or leaf that gets turned into extracts and tinctures, which would obviously decrease the actual figures.