Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I made a post a few weeks ago mentioning that it was only inevitable before we start seeing vendors offering more potent analogs of 7-oh. We have now arrived at that point. MGM-15 was being investigated as a potential pharmaceutical a decade ago. It is 7-oh that has been reduced with sodium borohydride to create Dihydro-7-hydroxymitragynine. Early reviews are coming in that it is better than 7-oh in every way—stronger euphoria, pain relief, duration, along with increased bioavailability. (no need to hold it under your tongue)

It instantly sold out but I'm told they are getting a larger shipment in the next coming week.

https://thepowdersolutions.com/shop/str ... 5g-option/

I was wondering when this news would hit MM, there are multiple Analog RC's(Research Chemicals) MGM 15, MGM16 being made from 7-OH. It appears MGM 15 does NOT interact substantially with the β-arrestin pathway, meaning it won't stop breathing in moderate doses(in theory). That being said it's extremely potent with a 10 hour duration and acts even more like a traditional pharma opioid.

yeah I saw this on Reddit.... For starters, I WAITED One Year, from the time I first heard about a "7-Hydroxy" product... To the 1st time I finally tried one. Celebrating my 1 Year anniversary very soon. Like many, I dipped my little toe in the water... Cautious, at first. So personally I'll wait on this, too.

No hurry to "Try". Also the vendor "Powder Solutions" does not have a great following. Again read Reddit... he's throwing tabs and powders into a unmarked baggie, with No Labels. Multiple buyers have received, their Order from Powder Solutions this way. The dude is like a bathtub Chemist. (or Kitchen Chemist ? lol) its like the most casual, Un- professional business out there.... So Just like Kratom Leaf vendors. Gonna be a range, some good... and some very sketchy!

All Extracts use Solvents. that's True about any herbal extract product, (Curcumin extracted from Turmeric, for example)... So the FACT that solvents are used ? Is NOT by itself, a negative ? as long as Product is fully Lab Tested & sold with a Lab Test Report showing potency, residual solvents, AND microbial testing. .. Pro's and Con's. Organic Kratom Leaf products have bacteria... and so microbial testing is VERY important and there's been a proven History - of Kratom Plain Leaf products having stuff like Salmonella, E-Coli, H-Pylori and other contaminations...

I hope this doesn’t put kratom under the spotlight like 7oh has. We were coasting with no major problems for a long time, and then all of the sudden 7oh comes out and now kratom is facing scrutiny again in some places. I wish they would just leave it alone and stop trying to extract and supercharge the alkaloids.

GreenAnimal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 4:11 am I hope this doesn’t put kratom under the spotlight like 7oh has. We were coasting with no major problems for a long time, and then all of the sudden 7oh comes out and now kratom is facing scrutiny again in some places. I wish they would just leave it alone and stop trying to extract and supercharge the alkaloids.

I agree. I had a terrible experience with 7oh and so I'm sure not dipping into this. Kratom is perfect all by itself so I would hate for it to be banned because of this.

terposton wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 10:53 am

GreenAnimal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 4:11 am I hope this doesn’t put kratom under the spotlight like 7oh has. We were coasting with no major problems for a long time, and then all of the sudden 7oh comes out and now kratom is facing scrutiny again in some places. I wish they would just leave it alone and stop trying to extract and supercharge the alkaloids.

I agree. I had a terrible experience with 7oh and so I'm sure not dipping into this. Kratom is perfect all by itself so I would hate for it to be banned because of this.

Well, I can say it’s not looking good lately with 7oh putting kratom in a negative light. I have the same fears you do. 7oh is what kicked off the situation in Texas and Florida. Although both states amended their bills, it was still scary there for a bit and now there’s a ton of new restrictions going into effect.

Plain leaf kratom is at risk in Texas with SB1868. It will ban it completely if the current bill amendment goes through.

Another thing about these bans is in the end it hurts everyone involved. The people who rely on clean lab tested plain leaf, the small businesses that sell it, those whose lives are ruined by criminalization.

One thing they don't understand is just like research chemicals, the chemists are already 100x ahead of their legislation.

Take for instance the new alkaloid MGM15 which was released. Which will completely bypass their so called ban bill.

This is an NEW alkaloid ( definition of alkaloid; has a nitrogen atom and comes from a plant) currently being researched. MGM 15 is in the same scaffold as 7oh. Current research shows that reducing the indole imine is a rational medicinal chemistry strategy to potentially mitigate hepatotoxicity of 7-hydroxymitragynine.

They think they are clever. But, really they are fighting against something they will never in a million years be successful in winning against.

Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

7-hydroxymitragynine wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:30 pm Plain leaf kratom is at risk in Texas with SB1868. It will ban it completely if the current bill amendment goes through.

Another thing about these bans is in the end it hurts everyone involved. The people who rely on clean lab tested plain leaf, the small businesses that sell it, those whose lives are ruined by criminalization.

One thing they don't understand is just like research chemicals, the chemists are already 100x ahead of their legislation.

Take for instance the new alkaloid MGM15 which was released. Which will completely bypass their so called ban bill.

This is an NEW alkaloid ( definition of alkaloid; has a nitrogen atom and comes from a plant) currently being researched. MGM 15 is in the same scaffold as 7oh. Current research shows that reducing the indole imine is a rational medicinal chemistry strategy to potentially mitigate hepatotoxicity of 7-hydroxymitragynine.

They think they are clever. But, really they are fighting against something they will never in a million years be successful in winning against.

Exactly. They will forever be playing whack-a-mole with these large companies and chemists! They ban one thing, they will just design some new chemical formula that can be marketed legally. The cycle will go on forever.

SpeciosaLife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:05 am Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

Yes there is. I can definitely give you the details if you like. This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. This stuff doesn't kill anyone. It can be addicting but anything can. Regardless people buy alcohol from every corner and it causes deaths and abuse and nobody bans that. Pharmaceutical companies have some of the worst drugs on the market but if you find the right doctor then it's ok in there eyes. Them banning it is a fear in them not controlling the market. That's all it is
They don't care about people's health.

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm

SpeciosaLife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:05 am Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

Yes there is. I can definitely give you the details if you like. This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. This stuff doesn't kill anyone. It can be addicting but anything can. Regardless people buy alcohol from every corner and it causes deaths and abuse and nobody bans that. Pharmaceutical companies have some of the worst drugs on the market but if you find the right doctor then it's ok in there eyes. Them banning it is a fear in them not controlling the market. That's all it is
They don't care about people's health.

Would you mind sharing the details of an alternative vendor with me?
Thank you,
Scoobs

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. ( This stuff doesn't kill anyone. ) It can be addicting but anything can.

A "Research Chemical" ?? 7-Hydroxy has gone through quite a bit of testing over 2+ Years now... And been ON the market with "Human Lab Rats" taking HUGE doses, over that time... I get what you're saying, and I agree with your points about Pharma, BUT still this "RC" could wind up doing damage somehow... and again... This vendor, Powder Solutions - has a sketchy history if you Search on Reddit - customers get stuff NOT even labeled ? -

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:27 pm

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. ( This stuff doesn't kill anyone. ) It can be addicting but anything can.

A "Research Chemical" ?? 7-Hydroxy has gone through quite a bit of testing over 2+ Years now... And been ON the market with "Human Lab Rats" taking HUGE doses, over that time... I get what you're saying, and I agree with your points about Pharma, BUT still this "RC" could wind up doing damage somehow... and again... This vendor, Powder Solutions - has a sketchy history if you Search on Reddit - customers get stuff NOT even labeled ? -

I wouldn't say it qualifies as a RC, it's simply the hydrogenated form of 7-oh (dihydro-7-oh) with the exact same structure, Would you call Delta 8 a RC? It's a lot like going from codeine to dihydrocodeine, is it completely different than the non-hydrogenated form? no.

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:27 pm

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. ( This stuff doesn't kill anyone. ) It can be addicting but anything can.

A "Research Chemical" ?? 7-Hydroxy has gone through quite a bit of testing over 2+ Years now... And been ON the market with "Human Lab Rats" taking HUGE doses, over that time... I get what you're saying, and I agree with your points about Pharma, BUT still this "RC" could wind up doing damage somehow... and again... This vendor, Powder Solutions - has a sketchy history if you Search on Reddit - customers get stuff NOT even labeled ? -

I've had many different products from PS over yr. No issues.
I do agree that labeling should've been a better focus. But I think he figured ppl knew what the f they were ordering?.. still, should all be labelled I agree. I don't think he realizes how many customers he's lost just due to not bothering to label everything in his first month's.

Anyways, I expected prices to drop massively over time like the rest, thought he was shooting for bulk seller, but seems not . So I won't be paying over 60/g or 2 a tab so probably ts unfortunately not option I'll use unless something changes.
But I got nothing bad to say on the products, just prices I guess (unless you are someone buying like 4-10tabs sure.. but I buy 3-5g at a time or 300-1000tab at time so sucks.
I do have like 15 different powders from em , using up last bits of the different samples ATM. And really liked a couple.
But the 5g KD deal on mac n cheese a fav, or other newer found options, like my bulk tab place n one other I prob try.

Anyways,
I wouldn't hesitate to try something from PS/TPS though
Plus seems he's more on labeling now.

Personally I really like mgm. It’s a great alternative to hardcore opioids that docs be prescribing. Though if your fine with regular kratom stay away from it cause it will raise your tolerance to where you can no longer enjoy leaf if you use it to often. The problem I see is I don’t think it has ceiling effect like 7oh meaning it’s easier to abuse. Ps has always been good to me but some people hate them for some minor issues like labeling, and they are kinda shady.. In my opinion mgm has great potential as a safer alternative to regular opioids. I still prefer 7oh because of the ceiling effect. Sadly mgm could be the nail in the coffin that makes all kratom illegal because it can be abused more than 7 oh. We need to fight to keep these substances around. It’s our bodies so we should be able to decide what we put in it.

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm

SpeciosaLife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:05 am Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

Yes there is. I can definitely give you the details if you like. This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. This stuff doesn't kill anyone. It can be addicting but anything can. Regardless people buy alcohol from every corner and it causes deaths and abuse and nobody bans that. Pharmaceutical companies have some of the worst drugs on the market but if you find the right doctor then it's ok in there eyes. Them banning it is a fear in them not controlling the market. That's all it is
They don't care about people's health.

Would love the vendor info I've been looking for an alternative

what about 10-fluoro-7-hydroxymitragynine? or is it the same as mgm15

proleaf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:24 am what about 10-fluoro-7-hydroxymitragynine? or is it the same as mgm15

That one is known as MGM 16, it's insanely potent and is a full agonist at Multiple receptors. It's so potent that doses wouldn't even be measured in mg, but in mcg(micro centigrams) making the possibility of overdose almost certain(try weighing that one a scale). To my knowledge it has not been produced for retail sale and needs to stay that way. MGM 15 is known as Dihydro-Mitragynine iirc

BookofEnoch1914 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 9:05 am

proleaf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:24 am what about 10-fluoro-7-hydroxymitragynine? or is it the same as mgm15

That one is known as MGM 16, it's insanely potent and is a full agonist at Multiple receptors. It's so potent that doses wouldn't even be measured in mg, but in mcg(micro centigrams) making the possibility of overdose almost certain(try weighing that one a scale). To my knowledge it has not been produced for retail sale and needs to stay that way. MGM 15 is known as Dihydro-Mitragynine iirc

Unfortunatly it is on the way by one vendor..

Scoobs wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 6:39 pm

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm

SpeciosaLife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:05 am Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

Yes there is. I can definitely give you the details if you like. This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. This stuff doesn't kill anyone. It can be addicting but anything can. Regardless people buy alcohol from every corner and it causes deaths and abuse and nobody bans that. Pharmaceutical companies have some of the worst drugs on the market but if you find the right doctor then it's ok in there eyes. Them banning it is a fear in them not controlling the market. That's all it is
They don't care about people's health.

Would you mind sharing the details of an alternative vendor with me?
Thank you,
Scoobs

Hey, I'm new here. Looking for a vendor to replace the sketchiness of TPS. Any help? I saw this thread and it seemed like a good place to start. Thank you

7-hydroxymitragynine wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:30 pm

Take for instance the new alkaloid MGM15 which was released. Which will completely bypass their so called ban bill.

This is an NEW alkaloid ( definition of alkaloid; has a nitrogen atom and comes from a plant) currently being researched. MGM 15 is in the same scaffold as 7oh. Current research shows that reducing the indole imine is a rational medicinal chemistry strategy to potentially mitigate hepatotoxicity of 7-hydroxymitragynine.

Just received a gram earlier today of MGM-15 99% isolate. I'm definitely in no hurry to explore this stuff. But I just wanted to correct you in saying "MGM-15 is NOT an alkaloid" its a synthetic 7-OH analog.

anonk wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:09 am

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:27 pm

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. ( This stuff doesn't kill anyone. ) It can be addicting but anything can.

A "Research Chemical" ?? 7-Hydroxy has gone through quite a bit of testing over 2+ Years now... And been ON the market with "Human Lab Rats" taking HUGE doses, over that time... I get what you're saying, and I agree with your points about Pharma, BUT still this "RC" could wind up doing damage somehow... and again... This vendor, Powder Solutions - has a sketchy history if you Search on Reddit - customers get stuff NOT even labeled ? -

I wouldn't say it qualifies as a RC, it's simply the hydrogenated form of 7-oh (dihydro-7-oh) with the exact same structure, Would you call Delta 8 a RC? It's a lot like going from codeine to dihydrocodeine, is it completely different than the non-hydrogenated form? no.

Yeah but Delta 8 also occurs completely naturally in cannabis flowers.

Humble9300 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 21, 2025 1:31 am

7-hydroxymitragynine wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:30 pm

Take for instance the new alkaloid MGM15 which was released. Which will completely bypass their so called ban bill.

This is an NEW alkaloid ( definition of alkaloid; has a nitrogen atom and comes from a plant) currently being researched. MGM 15 is in the same scaffold as 7oh. Current research shows that reducing the indole imine is a rational medicinal chemistry strategy to potentially mitigate hepatotoxicity of 7-hydroxymitragynine.

Just received a gram earlier today of MGM-15 99% isolate. I'm definitely in no hurry to explore this stuff. But I just wanted to correct you in saying "MGM-15 is NOT an alkaloid" its a synthetic 7-OH analog.

I copied and pasted it directly from PS website. So blame them if it's incorrect. But it was straight from the source.

There was a thing called K2(spice) back in the day. The original was pretty good and a way to cheaply skirt marijuana laws and still get buzzed. It was not prefect, but not bad. Then they started the wack a mole game and people started changing it to get around bans, and it became a near poison. Even the 2nd generation was getting people sick(maybe from taking way to big of hits or whatever) and it was never the same. Hoping this doesnt go same way.

iamlurkerpro wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 9:03 am There was a thing called K2(spice) back in the day. The original was pretty good and a way to cheaply skirt marijuana laws and still get buzzed. It was not prefect, but not bad. Then they started the wack a mole game and people started changing it to get around bans, and it became a near poison. Even the 2nd generation was getting people sick(maybe from taking way to big of hits or whatever) and it was never the same. Hoping this doesnt go same way.

I remember that stuff. Buddy and I bought a pouch of it. Had a real dirty high feel. Wasn't great.

Jack7985 wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 2:32 pm

SpeciosaLife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:05 am Anyone other than TPS carry this? Sounds promising for breakthrough pain days.

Yes there is. I can definitely give you the details if you like. This is good news as this stuff is great for pain. People need to remember that ibuprofen kills thousands every year. This stuff doesn't kill anyone. It can be addicting but anything can. Regardless people buy alcohol from every corner and it causes deaths and abuse and nobody bans that. Pharmaceutical companies have some of the worst drugs on the market but if you find the right doctor then it's ok in there eyes. Them banning it is a fear in them not controlling the market. That's all it is
They don't care about people's health.

If you could kindly share the details for alternatives with my I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm new to this site and having difficulty figuring out how to direct message you.

Marblehead wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 11:28 am If you could kindly share the details for alternatives with my I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm new to this site ....

Welcome to MM!! you might wanna checkout these guys: https://7ohmitdistro.com/ - Contact through Reddit user account: user/7-OhmitDistribution - And they also have a Discord. MGM products may be available, high demand, low stock & Not listed on their website. 4600 views for this Topic ? Wow lots of Lurkers here... Good Luck to all!!

Humble9300 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 21, 2025 2:02 am

anonk wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:09 am

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:27 pm
A "Research Chemical" ?? 7-Hydroxy has gone through quite a bit of testing over 2+ Years now... And been ON the market with "Human Lab Rats" taking HUGE doses, over that time... I get what you're saying, and I agree with your points about Pharma, BUT still this "RC" could wind up doing damage somehow... and again... This vendor, Powder Solutions - has a sketchy history if you Search on Reddit - customers get stuff NOT even labeled ? -

I wouldn't say it qualifies as a RC, it's simply the hydrogenated form of 7-oh (dihydro-7-oh) with the exact same structure, Would you call Delta 8 a RC? It's a lot like going from codeine to dihydrocodeine, is it completely different than the non-hydrogenated form? no.

Yeah but Delta 8 also occurs completely naturally in cannabis flowers.

7-oh also occurs naturally in Kratom just in small amounts. Like delta 8 in Marijuana unless your talking about mgm 15 instead of 7-oh, but then you got delta 10, thcp etc.

any leads on mgm15 vendors overseas? I am new here. also any links to discord vendors? Thank you in advance.