Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Just watched a video from Joe S about Mac's recent trip to Indo. Sounds like some pretty big changes coming in 2024. We will see what happens I guess

Indonesia's President Joko Widodo has instructed the national research agency BRIN to look into the consumption of kratom, especially its dosage, Moeldoko said.

Under the planned new regulations, the government would also limit the number of companies allowed to export kratom in a bid to keep up standards, he added.

Asked about prohibition of kratom use in a number of countries, Moeldoko said at least 20 markets were interested in importing Indonesian kratom.

SOURCE: Rueters - https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 024-06-20/

Looks like they want to regulate both the quality and the amount that is exported. If this happens, it will most likely lead to a price increase across the board, both for importers and consumers.

Any update on this?

Lots happening ... Mac said something about established prices for "Kratom Raw Materials" ~ the BULK leaf that's 90% of what vendors sell now in USA ~ Mac says $6 per Kilo iirc, with some allowance for Quality bonus. There is recognition that Quality has gone way down over recent years, IN response to lower prices paid by "Big Kratom" USA companies.

Mac was questioned regarding the "Fair Trade" initiative, which is KEY to several groups including 1 known as Koprabuh based in Jong Kong - there are negotiations ongoing. However he claims there's like 9 different Major groups of "Farmers" and the Koprabuh organization represents only a small minority. https://koprabuhusa.com/

WATCH the AKA September Advocacy update on YouTube for the latest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtxJpmFkL_k

For those who don't know, Denette615 is closing his business as of 10/6/2024 because of all this.

Sad. IMO, one of the very best vendors.

SeventhHeaven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 9:20 pm For those who don't know, Denette615 is closing his business as of 10/6/2024 because of all this.

Sad. IMO, one of the very best vendors.

For real, probably my favorite vendor. I'll forever hold on to the hope that someday an email will show up in my inbox about him reopening haha

To be fair, it wasn't ONLY because of this that Eric decided to quit. I think it was the gripping hand, but he has been contemplating this for a while prior to this coming up.

I suspect it's MOSTLY because he wasn't getting enough reorders from his customers (which he did mention). He tried opening up to other customers, but apparently there just wasn't enough business to justify the headaches of dealing with selling kratom (which I can only imagine). I suspect if that had not been an issue he would have continued selling.

It’s a double edged sword for me.. I’m glad that it looks like they’re trying to create a cleaner product and give the good folks on the Indonesian side a higher price per kilo.. But then you have the smaller vendors on our side that are going to be hurt from it, hopefully most can adjust to the changes.

SeventhHeaven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 9:20 pm For those who don't know, Denette615 is closing his business as of 10/6/2024 because of all this.

Sad. IMO, one of the very best vendors.

I know. I am in deep mourning over this. It feels like the beginning of the end for small batch and that the band plays on for the AKA vendors and large batch sellers as well.

Seriously depressed about Denette.

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:38 am To be fair, it wasn't ONLY because of this that Eric decided to quit. I think it was the gripping hand, but he has been contemplating this for a while prior to this coming up.

I suspect it's MOSTLY because he wasn't getting enough reorders from his customers (which he did mention). He tried opening up to other customers, but apparently there just wasn't enough business to justify the headaches of dealing with selling kratom (which I can only imagine). I suspect if that had not been an issue he would have continued selling.

And apparently when you order smaller amounts rather than big batches, they are more likely to be seized? He said this and I have thought about this for awhile. Why seize the smaller export/imports and leaves 'Big Kratom' untouched? Nevermind. I think I just answered my own question.

Wouldn't this be a wonderful time to become a small batch vendor? I am going to do it, but give it a name like 'Big Mitra Corporate Green' and my icon will be dollars shaped like Kratom leaves

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:38 am To be fair, it wasn't ONLY because of this that Eric decided to quit. I think it was the gripping hand, but he has been contemplating this for a while prior to this coming up.

I suspect it's MOSTLY because he wasn't getting enough reorders from his customers (which he did mention). He tried opening up to other customers, but apparently there just wasn't enough business to justify the headaches of dealing with selling kratom (which I can only imagine). I suspect if that had not been an issue he would have continued selling.

Earlier this year he announced he would only do a few drops per year, so I imagine that had an effect. I had no idea if a new drop happened unless I checked MeWe or someone here posted a review. Plus money is tight for a lot of folks right now

He actually wrote, when he did quit, that the main reason was not enough repeat business. I'm pretty sure if he was still selling well he would have continued, but between that and his shipments being seized he just didn't want to continue. This regulation business was just icing on the cake.

WhiteAngelica wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:35 pm Wouldn't this be a wonderful time to become a small batch vendor? I am going to do it, but give it a name like 'Big Mitra Corporate Green' and my icon will be dollars shaped like Kratom leaves

PERFECT!

I think most established vendors will be okay. Customers in this biz are fiercely loyal and kratom is gaining popularity like crazy. Shame that D is closing. Never had a chance to try him.

Again, let me try and clarify this (and until Eric says otherwise I will continue to represent this this way).

In ALL his messages he never said the new regulations were an issue. The MAIN issue was twofold: he was not getting enough repeat business (around 30-40 percent would buy again, but I guess us super loyal folks weren't enough) to justify his shipments getting seized at times. All BEFORE this regulation. He implied (but never stated directly) that this POSSIBILITY was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

From ALL that he wrote it sounds like if he was getting enough business he would have continued to matter what. So let's not make these new POSSIBLE regulations be more of a big deal than they are. As someone suggested elsewhere, they may have literally no effect on most established vendors. I do not in any way shape or form think they "drove Denette out of business".

(If anyone wants further evidence - he started this process well over a year before this even came up. That's why he opened up his membership list, and then made it (mostly) completely open. Still wasn't getting enough customers. Which is crazy since he and TFH are/were the two I would never want to be without. The good news is I have enough of Denette's stuff to last a lifetime. Well, MY lifetime. YMMV).

Yeah...made no sense that someone like D with such a quality product wouldn't have sufficient business to keep going. I have enough to last for a couple of years but it's inexplicable that lesser companies flourish while he closes shop. TGFTFH.

Well, on one hand I can kind of see it. Yes, he had the best, no question about it, but he also kept his customer base pretty low, and I think it's really hard to run any sort of business with such exclusivity. I'm not an expert in this (having spent most of my working life in the public sector) but I did have a lot of experience during my unemployment office days and folks I interviewed talked about the importance of "churn".

You do get repeat business, but no business can survive on only that. You MUST attract new folks and Eric didn't want to deal with that hassle (which I also understand). So it's a Catch-22: keep it to folks who are vetted and quality, but then get less business, or open it up and deal with all the hassles of that with much more custom.