Vendor Ratings: Point System 💚

[BallzDeep9]

Before we post the new, Summer 2023 - Kratom Vendor List ( on Saidit.net - Not Reddit! ) I wanted to introduce a "new idea" been kickin' around for awhile... a Point System used to score, evaluate, or RATE - online sellers using several objective factors. LINK - Vendor List

So we've gotten many Questions, over the past 5 Years: "HOW do you decide, WHO gets on the Vendor List ??" and, WHY isn't my favorite vendor XXX, listed ??... Well, those questions could maybe be answered by just reading the Header on Saidit - where we lay out Rules, and explain How the thing is put together... Starting with a Master List of 200+ vendors, then getting each one's Price Per Gram = PPG for a common size bag - Quarter Kilo or nearest size - We then eliminate the upper half by Price... all the Retail sellers, and scammers and ripoffs. We then gather Reviews, and look around for extra things for each vendor.

Well it's 2023 - there are even LESS "Reviews" than ever - And with OVER 2000 plain leaf Kratom products, "Strains" being sold at any given time... well, Nobody has bought and tried all 2000 "Strains" because it would be impossible to compare that many - So obviously "Reviews" are just rather silly, subjective, personal stories - about ONE person's experience and we all know... "People are Different" right so - We need objective things - Real things. FACT's !! not fantasy or stories or whatever.

Examples of some FACT's - You or anyone may use to select a vendor - To spend your hard earned Money with:
What State does vendor Ship from ? The closer, the better, for Fast Shipping!! AND...

• Does Vendor have a real "website" on the Internet ? E-commerce Shopping cart ? Payment options?
• What kind of Variety of products ? Many Strains ? Big selection to choose from ? Other herbs ?
• How about Extract ? Does vendor offer extracts, tinctures, shots, or Enhanced Leaf ?
• What is vendor's Experience - Importing kratom ? Does vendor have 2+ Years of history with suppliers?
• Does vendor Lab Test "Strains" ? Do they show Labs ? Do they Label bags, with Batch # Date and MIT %
• How about many Recent Reviews ? Even better, does vendor have a Consumer Testing Program ?
• What is vendor's Social Media presence ? Does vendor participate on Reddit, Mewe, MM, or other?
• Does this seller have, and maintain, their own Group on Mewe, or Facebook, or a Youtube Channel ?

[BallzDeep9]

So this is actually, very easy - and fun - Give it a try !! USE the above Eight Bullet Points - each gets 1 point! Except for the top two "website" and selection, generally get 2 points... (1 point for www domain, and 1 for actual Shopping Cart.) But, IF the vendor does NOT have the thing - they get Zero for that... Vendors can earn a TOTAL of 10 Points. Follow me so far ? OK - now ADD a "Plus" to each category, each bullet - where a vendor is super good. Example: Lab Tests, with potency, plus each bag Label w/ Batch and even Mitragynine % - give em a Plus! ~ ADD all the points and give 1 Bonus point where they've scored two or more = Plus.

Many of the points - are either Zero, or 1. Hey. Vendor either sells Extract - or they don't - Vendor either has proven, years, experience and connections for Imports. Or they don't. So New vendors don't have that. Reviews ? must be recent!! They get 1 point. You could give a Plus, for vendor with many trusted reviews ? (or a Consumer Testing program which very few have.) OK ~ I can say, now, there's very FEW vendors who earned a perfect 10!! A bunch of vendors are eight's and nine's - so the Vendor List will go, from zero to 9. ALL of the Top Ten vendors in USA, had 7 or better score.

[mivanqua]

I love this idea ballz. Changing with the times. Not a thing wrong with that.

[brian b]

Really great idea, guys!

[boureka]

Ballz, this is really excellent. And APPRECIATED. One question tho, why does selling extract get the vendor a point?

[Kelleytoons]

I would like to suggest, however, that the private vendors have different bullet points (or at least not be lumped in with the public ones).

A private vendor doesn't need or want a social presence, particularly. Nor do they really need a website. And even their ordering processes can be vastly different, as long as they are efficient. They serve a different market and have different criteria as to how well that market is served.

So just as you broke down your list (and we thank you for that change) into public and private vendors, I would also suggest you consider the two very differently in terms of criteria. And not only would I take out one or two of your "public" bullet points, I might add one or two for those whose membership is more select:

* How easy is it to *maintain* your membership in such a private vendor
* How easy is it to GET a membership in the first place

(Note that the last one isn't so much used for ranking as it is just for informative basis. Let's face it, a place like TFH - in which it's near impossible to get a membership - is still a quality vendor that should be at the top of any private vendor list, at least in terms of quality. If it's "unobtainium" it should be well annotated but not dismissive).

[BallzDeep9]

I would like to suggest, however, that the private vendors have different bullet points (or at least not be lumped in with the public ones).

A private vendor doesn't need or want a social presence, particularly. Nor do they really need a website. And even their ordering processes can be vastly different, as long as they are efficient. They serve a different market and have different criteria as to how well that market is served.

We understand, a FEW sellers, have been/ are still / "private", mainly because of kratom's Legal status. Because of the FDA - Import Ban, credit card problems, fear of chargebacks or problem buyers... And, not having much kratom ? Micro vendors lol.

The History : 6+ years ago there was legit FEAR of kratom being scheduled - Banned by DEA. So vendors kept a low profile. A few, Herb Research, in particular, were "private" and also used that marketing angle, to justify outrageous prices... doing the ol' Take-away lol. Another one, DG Botanicals, spun their own version of that.. Ridiculous prices.

In early 2017 the DEA threat was over - Kratom exploded with over 300 vendors. The FEAR reason for being "private", was gone... Herb Research slowly went out of business... but one of their big customers - started TFH. Well - I think we all agree TFH is a unique business. With all the above reasons for being private.

What's a vendor anyway ? A business ? Are Individuals who sell kratom in chat rooms, really "vendors" ? A website seems like a low bar - We've always had Rules on the Vendor List, and the Micro sellers in chat rooms don't meet those basics ... Same Rules for 5+ years. Get a website, have some "Skin in the Game". Kratom is a LEGAL herb - So acting like plugs or dealers.. is different from people who've invested (see 10 Point System above!) ~ I mean it's the same for Cannabis ? Every legal Weed market, has black market pot sellers... But those are NOT recognized - by Leafly, or anywhere.

Major "private" vendors: TFH, and Rhino = Are at least minimum qualified, to be on The List. They have domains & public groups. I pick those 2 because unless something changes it's hard to imagine any others ? Smiley ? Lucky ? Were "private" ? wink wink not really / not anymore... See there's been a Copycat factor at play here, following TFH and wanting to be "Like TFH" known for quality kratom. A few years ago, Copycat sellers wanted to be Like KOG --> Liza's and Smiley - both copied that business model. which is fine...

And the true, private, Micro sellers - just don't have much kratom, to sell ? Basically, stock a few Kg for family & friends lol ~ Sorry for long winded Reply!

[Kelleytoons]

No, that's all good info, Mr. B, and helpful.

I'm curious as to how you would position/categorize someone like Denette. He's actually my #2 source (TFH being #1) and while I buy from others (and get very good things) I can always count on Eric. About 90% (perhaps even higher) "hits" for me. No other vendor (other than TFH) comes that close (again, just to me personally - I would say I average around 50/50 even when folks say they've never had anything that was more fire than this or that. For me it's just too rando).

Your list was invaluable to me when I first came here. Now I am only interested in it just as a curiosity but I think it's SO valuable for SO many people it's good for you to continue it. Really the only other alternative is to spend a TON of time here and perhaps on other forums/boards where if you read nearly ALL the posts you can kind of make up your own mind. But not everyone has that amount of time (or interest - honestly next to FB this forum is one of the few places I even spend ANY time on the net nowadays).

[mikedjb]

Love the simplicity. We needed something for a long, long time now.

[terposton]

Ballz, I love this idea!

[BookofEnoch1914]

It was stated above that Herb Research went out of business. This is not accurate, they are very much alive and still in business. Based on several purchases of mine in the last 6 months, I can say that their Leaf is just as Unique and potent as it ever was. Pricey yes.....but excellent.. Very Old School style, coarser, Some Stem/Vein content and extremely potent.

[BallzDeep9]

Pricey yes.....but excellent.. Very Old School style, coarser, Some Stem/Vein content and extremely potent.

Thanks for update, sorry I should have looked - he's re-done the website & still sells same Potent Indo etc... The reason we've still got 200+ vendors. Cost of web hosting is low!! . He hides the prices... because they're ridiculous, and have been since the 2017 boom... ON the website, he still makes statements like: "There is only one source for Maeng Da"... still sells fake strains like Thai, etc. Here's the LINK - https://herbresearch.com/

I'm an Oregonian and know he's near OSU and, promotes as "HRF Foundation" now, does that mean he's gone non-profit ?? LOL - pretty sure it's sales to Research Labs. Mitragynine* is being studied all over now - so there's a market for scientists, they would buy from HRF. ~ History is very interesting. Ethan in late 90's and another guy, Duncan Macrae, who registered the domain: KRATOM.COM ~ these guys are the Pioneers of Kratom!

[mivanqua]

Anf let's not even get into their great strides in the extract department. These guys were trailblazers for SURE.

and also, in HR's defense, they explain on the site how people stole their name "Maeng Da" and how theirs is the first and only, and they used to supply HS their two premium strains, right?

I think when that was composed, there WAS only one real Maeng Da and it WAS their plantation stuff. I mean, mid-2000s they are working with a plantation? That's crazy to me. And back then, it was all wild and people wanted some consistency. Now it's all plantation and we are looking to be surprised. The grass is always greener, I guess...

[LuckyHerbals]

Thank you for continuing to research vendors and source with this list, Ballz! Looks like we need to adapt some to get that score up! As far as the private business model goes... We went private because of all the attacks on our payment accounts in 2019. We went PUBLIC last November due to Reddit complaints. There must be something psychological about purchasing from a limited or exclusive vendor, because our sales absolutely declined after going public! Our order volume did NOT increase. Although we didn't do it for this reason, the whole private vendor aspect is obviously a marketing strategy to some. Guess I failed Marketing 101.

[Kelleytoons]

I went back and forth over whether to weigh in here, but in the spirit of helping...

I don't think your marketing is flawed. I bought from you when you were private - I think you were one of the first that accepted me as a member - but I didn't stop buying from you just because you went public. I just happened to become a member of a couple of others that crowded out just about everyone else I bought from (Denette and TFH to be exact).

But to be completely and totally honest - I buy *mostly* based on reviews published here. Not on Reddit (no longer even get on there) or MeWe or anywhere else but here. If a couple of folks I trust say a strain is good, I make an effort to get it regardless of where it comes from. Thus in the last few months I've bought a lot of things from HeavenLeaf even though I hadn't even heard of them before. I also bought from DTE but their business model (of having such a limited stock you really need to buy sight unseen without advance notice) doesn't work for me and I'll never buy from them again.

So if a strain of yours gets great reviews...I'm in! But, honestly, I haven't seen any of yours that have come up here (again, among folks I trust and whose opinion generally follows mine). I don't know if this is typical, but I do know a LOT of batches get sold out in this manner. Word of mouth, IOW, is perhaps the biggest advertisement ANYONE can make.

(Incidentally this is one of the reasons I LOVE being a TFH member - I can hear great reviews and still know when I go to buy it won't have sold out. I wish other vendors could do this but I'm guessing they just aren't big enough, or can't pick their batches carefully enough that they end up with fire. Even my beloved Denette will run out of things - I missed out on Green #1. Sigh).

I don't know if this helps you or not - perhaps if you handed out free samples to some influencers it might be worth a try. Then again, what do I really know?

[boureka]

- perhaps if you handed out free samples to some influencers it might be worth a try. Then again, what do I really know?

...picturing this kratom influencer snapping a heavily filtered and staged mirror shot all puckered lips and contrived outfit, phone in one hand, kratom bag in the other...

[Kelleytoons]

The ironic thing is that I really don't know if I'd even HAVE the time to try a sample - because I have to make it into capsules it would both have to be something I had high expectations about AND be enough to make it worth the effort (a minimum of 12 grams, really).

But I do think if I were a vendor that's what I would do, particularly if I had a batch I knew was so good people were just missing out. A few reviews here and it would sell out in a hurry.

[boureka]

I think you're absolutely correct. Someone posts about a certain vendor and strain... it piles on...a juggernaut is born. Where's the love for the tried and true? (Meanwhile I just made a sacred vow not to buy any more kratom for a while...unless it's a particular batch, of course )

[Lokey]

That's why some attend the MeWe groups daily or often because they get advance notice and input about upcoming batches before they even arrive, get notified as soon as its available and already having input from the vendor get their orders and start their reviews in the group usually before it makes it here. Example is green #1, we were told about its high mit before it came in and a few ordered it asap, a few comments with feedback later a review here and there was hardly any left, thought it was sold out and get notified only 1 kilo left in the group, which got snatched up before I could decide what other batches I wanted to go with it!

[LuckyHerbals]

Again, I failed Marketing 101, because we don't constantly pump up influencers with free kratom and referral bonuses.

I'm not completely against starting a testers group! We're going to be getting our new suppliers back in rotation while the dry season is in full swing, so some fresh feedback would be helpful when gauging effects.

[Loveandpeace]

That's why some attend the MeWe groups daily or often because they get advance notice and input about upcoming batches before they even arrive, get notified as soon as its available and already having input from the vendor get their orders and start their reviews in the group usually before it makes it here. Example is green #1, we were told about its high mit before it came in and a few ordered it asap, a few comments with feedback later a review here and there was hardly any left, thought it was sold out and get notified only 1 kilo left in the group, which got snatched up before I could decide what other batches I wanted to go with it!

Well, dang!! Lokey keeping it real and loud. This is def a pro tip. I have tried to keep up but MeWe moves too damn fast. Also, it was encouraging too much spending from me.

I wonder what the chat room is like before MeWe.

[Csharpe]

Again, I failed Marketing 101, because we don't constantly pump up influencers with free kratom and referral bonuses.

I'm not completely against starting a testers group! We're going to be getting our new suppliers back in rotation while the dry season is in full swing, so some fresh feedback would be helpful when gauging effects.

Kratom influencers.. great comment there Ben lol man I remember when the Reddit vendor subs were getting real active it was so obvious a lot of times. The “small batch” group was always just one big add space to me. A lot of bulk bought from stateside wholesalers being propped up by reviews always made me appreciate the vendors that didn’t rely on that more

[BallzDeep9]

That's why some attend the MeWe groups daily or often because they get advance notice and input about upcoming batches before they even arrive, get notified as soon as its available and already having input from the vendor get their orders and start their reviews in the group usually before it makes it here. Example is green #1, we were told about its high mit before it came in and a few ordered it asap, a few comments with feedback later a review here and there was hardly any left, thought it was sold out and get notified only 1 kilo left in the group, which got snatched up before I could decide what other batches I wanted to go with it!

Yep, good description of The Mewe Game there... in a nutshell lol Hanging out in chat rooms.. Waiting for someone to say something. Over past 2 years more asking "Where is everyone ?," pretty dead in there.. Along with waiting for news of "A Drop" ~ there's also random idiots, drama, and right-wing Rump-tards... Who has patience for that ? I mean sure there's good Leaf, but that's true everywhere. Time is money ~ I've invested Time, hanging around Mewe ~ used to be fun for me, years ago. For those who enjoy a Chat thing it's still cool.. Rhino stays ON the Vendor List!

Our Kratom biz has grown and changed, every single year, going back 6+ years for me. Both for the better, And for the worse in some respect ~ Still a lack of transparency, still lots of myths and BS floated around, to push more sales for more money... In 2018 a head-shop vendor Urban Ice, appeared in: A Leaf Of Faith (watch free on Tubi.TV), accused "dirtbag" vendors on Reddit of selling bunk. Because they cut his prices in half ~ by 2019 a rash of Salmonella made news.. And we started seeing a few vendors post Lab tests. Now Labs are common, and expected by many Buyers.

The good professional vendors, now have quality websites, variety, shopping carts, Email or Blog newsletters, and work around Kratom payment issues. Follow GMP best practices, and use quality bags w/ Supplement Facts label w/ links to Labs (either QR code or website scans) ~ Lucky Herbals is a good example ~ hopefully more New buyers will find the Vendor List. I've always thought the Private thing was a Marketing pitch... promoting this mostly fake idea that 1 vendor's product is somehow better because it's limited and "exclusive" lol ~ Does seem odd, to hear about Public sales dropping off...