Do you chase the buzz?

[IndelibleDotInk]

I find myself at a ridiculous dose, and I don't even get much headiness, warm sensations, the buzz, basically, though pain is mitigated, and I take a little more than just to stop and be satisfied with the outcome of that particular burn. My primary reason for taking leaf is mood improvement, and lately I have started to take more, chasing the smile. I am starting a break, and it's not all bleak and woe is me, etc. I am totally confident in my ability to get back to a low to moderate dose of under 5g for a strong relaxing relief.

My question is, and it is personal, so no need to mention numbers or details, but who uses more than they want to, and when the leaf doesn't hit, do you add to your dose or call it a day? I have found that some nice coffee will 'activate' a lethargic burn and speed it up.

Aloha peeps!

[StarfishArtifice]

Yep, that describes me! I just take it for recreation/mood-lift and if I'm home I'll re-dose a fraction of initial dose 2-3 times over the course of a couple hours. SOMETIMES it feels like it works and kicks it up a notch, but I hate to think of all the kratom wasted, haha. Really dislike my tolerance, plus I hate not knowing if a batch is good or bad because of it. I would take a break/taper with you over the next few weeks if you're down!

[IndelibleDotInk]

I hate not knowing if a batch is good or bad because of it.

TOTALLY!!!!

I'm breaking from Monday, 5/1, til 5/31 (my birthday whoohoo!). Exception: must taste the two batches I'm getting from Cindy in about a week, and also the Dark Room HK3 which will also fall in the month of May. These will not be run off the rails tests, just tastes. Then with a lowered tolerance, I can see how quality my leaf is. It's kind of exciting, lol.

My friend Catboy (mastermind behind Herba Rosa) says blue lotus extract will help.

{Shout out to Heavenleaf, she just went public! Amagdalene and her crew are almost ready to unleash the DarkRoomSeries! I have had drhk5 and even with a slightly blunted tolerance, I've had it several times and can tell you not to sleep on it.}

[Kelleytoons]

I kind of do the opposite - in that I WANT the "buzz" (or, at least, to me a feeling of contentment) but I don't "chase" it.

Instead when I feel like kratom is not working I don't do raise the dose, or do a complete break but just LOWER the dose. WAY down. I find taking only a gram or a gram and a half (from my dose of around 3 grams) then starts working wonderfully, because I'm not expecting anything. IOW, when I WANT the good feelings I get them the most by sneaking back up on them and NOT trying to get them.

It's a bit like seeing something out of your peripheral vision you can't see if you look directly at it. So with almost zero expectation I take some (in my case, pills) and then forget about it. And, sure enough, that warmness starts spreading over me when I wasn't expecting it at all.

Perhaps because I do pills it's easy for this - I can just pop one or two in and drink it down and not even think (or remember - I'm old) that I took some kratom. Sometimes I'll be going along and that great feeling hits me and I'll think "wait, did I take some or not?" Because I honestly don't remember then (clearly if I had to measure it out or give it any thought at all that would not be the case).

[BallzDeep9]

I find myself at a ridiculous dose, and I don't even get much headiness, warm sensations, the buzz .... My primary reason for taking leaf is mood improvement, and lately I have started to take more,

Ahhh you're reading my mind Indelible. Mahalo! Great minds (or maybe depressed minds?) think alike... Many of us, after the Pandemic, been through many vendors, fake "strains", rotating "batches", gone from High servings, to Low Dose, took a few breaks, and done some Turmeric/ Agmatine/ Black Seed Oil, etc as boosters or potentiators whatever...

It's Follow The Science. Do Research, read the science papers or get the nutshell, Readers digest version here... Partial Agonist, with NO possible respiratory depression it seems. After # many years and people taking HUGE servings of powder... to people stupidly drinking the entire bottle of Pure Mitragynine extract... (yes! see Wonderland's facebook page lol.) the Good News is: you can't O.D. on kratom. Don't wanna say impossible but... how many years? Millions of people ??

So very benign substance. The Bad news, (every Good news has a flipside?) there IS an addictive quality, and, there are Side Effects with heavy use/ abuse... One of those being, it stops "working" since our mµ opioid Receptors, do build up Tolerance - The "enemy" of getting a good buzz. So... the solution, for me, has been 1- Receptor management and 2- Variable dosing. I start with a baseline serving that's the LOWEST possible amount to feel effects. That's now 1 gram! Yes. I feel mild effects at 1 gram and chase that down with a Red Bull or whatever. Feels good!

Now - having RE-SET my Receptors at a LOW baseline tolerance... I have plenty of room, to catch a strong BUZZ, any time I want - By either double my serving of Powder, OR, adding a pinch of Extract to my 1 gram. I carefully weigh my Extract and measure the # MIT per serving there. Well, that's in a nutshell - My answer to the Tolerance issue: 2- Variable dosing.

[IndelibleDotInk]

appreciation for the comments and support from all so far.

[BallzDeep9]

when I feel like kratom is not working I don't do raise the dose, or do a complete break but just LOWER the dose. WAY down. I find taking only a gram or a gram and a half....

Yep. That's IT right there... only add, those who completely "Maxed Out" at 10+ gpd, maybe 3 servings X 4 grams... may need a break ? I got up near 20 gpd a few years ago, and stuck to 10 gpd. Had to force a miserable a couple days away... but ime just a 3 day break, works wonders. I'm on a baseline 1 gram now... Boost that upto 2-3 g, every few days enhanced w/ Extract.

[Voice_of_Morgulduin]

So very benign substance. The Bad news, (every Good news has a flipside?) there IS an addictive quality, and, there are Side Effects with heavy use/ abuse... One of those being, it stops "working" since our mµ opioid Receptors, do build up Tolerance - The "enemy" of getting a good buzz. So... the solution, for me, has been 1- Receptor management and 2- Variable dosing. I start with a baseline serving that's the LOWEST possible amount to feel effects. That's now 1 gram! Yes. I feel mild effects at 1 gram and chase that down with a Red Bull or whatever. Feels good!

I'm working off of a variation of this method right now, although I dose multiple times per day. First dose of the day is a threshold dose, barely feel it at all. Acts almost like a nootropic, subtle enhancements and that's it. Perfect for work. That way my afternoon dose hits every time. If I want a stronger afternoon burn, I just wait longer, say 10 hours instead of 8. Using this method I can use indefinitely without increasing my GPD. Just gotta work on lowering it now.

Mad respect for getting down to 1g dose. You set a wonderful example for those of us who wish to be more moderate in our use.

[Kelleytoons]

For you, given what you write, I'd just use 1 gram as that first, threshold dose. Doesn't really matter if you feel it or not.

The pretty amazing thing about using low doses is your expectation levels are so lowered than when it DOES hit (and it will) you are then amazed. And it doesn't take long to reset (I find if you just stick with it for a week or two you can easily cut your GPD in half. Again, lowering expectations is the key. Don't be "chasing" after the feels, just go through the motions and they will come).

[IndelibleDotInk]

Day 2

To sum it up, things are fine aside from being up a little early.

Starfish - I'm down to break with you, it's great to have some company.

Thanks Ballz and Kelley. After all that extract research, I have mentally given Kelleytoons OG status.

And thanks others who commented, the more, the merrier.

Good luck...to us all!

[Loveandpeace]

For you, given what you write, I'd just use 1 gram as that first, threshold dose. Doesn't really matter if you feel it or not.

The pretty amazing thing about using low doses is your expectation levels are so lowered than when it DOES hit (and it will) you are then amazed. And it doesn't take long to reset (I find if you just stick with it for a week or two you can easily cut your GPD in half. Again, lowering expectations is the key. Don't be "chasing" after the feels, just go through the motions and they will come).

You have become a wise old man, Kelley!!

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, LOL - and you know you were the one to turn me around so you can take ALL the credit.

(But truly, man, I do thank you - I've had an amazing journey and with friends like you helping I think I finally know a LITTLE about kratom - won't really know much because I don't think I'll live long enough :>).

[StarfishArtifice]

Some excellent replies so far!

Starfish - I'm down to break with you, it's great to have some company.

Alright! I think in solidarity I won't cold turkey, but I'll taper starting tonight, with the aim to find my threshold dose. I do have capsules that I'm familiar with the weights of. Like kelleytoons said, I will try to just take them and go about my day, not thinking about it.

[mivanqua]

Im in as well. I have to get a scale tonight and start measuring my doses. It's not so much that I'm out of control as one could ALWAYS have a tighter reign on this stuff.

[IndelibleDotInk]

sweet!

[mivanqua]

sweet!

Here's tomorrow's 10 grams


https://ibb.co/5GPx4wX

Which is down from eighteen.


Two grams Herba Rosa RMD
Two grams Denette Gold Koening
Two grams Denette RMD
Two grams TFH Top Shelf Red Maeng Da
Two grams DTE Super Red Kali.

That's all I'm carrying tomorrow. For the whole day.

[xymoriintus]

sweet!

Here's tomorrow's 10 grams


https://ibb.co/5GPx4wX

Which is down from eighteen.


Two grams Herba Rosa RMD
Two grams Denette Gold Koening
Two grams Denette RMD
Two grams TFH Top Shelf Red Maeng Da
Two grams DTE Super Red Kali.

That's all I'm carrying tomorrow. For the whole day.

Man. If you can stick with that, MUCH RESPECT

I couldn't do it though personally. Only if I was forced with no choice

[Kelleytoons]

Im in as well. I have to get a scale tonight and start measuring my doses. It's not so much that I'm out of control as one could ALWAYS have a tighter reign on this stuff.

It's interesting in that even though I make my own capsules I need to weigh them as well (this is partly due to me not being very good for a long time at measuring - so I'd just stuff as much as I can into the capsule without figuring out what it came to). Of course I subtract the weight of the empty capsules, but it's amazing how different vendors use very different powders - TFH, for example, is SO dense that half a gram fits with room to spare in one capsule, whereas with Denette I can't even get that into one capsule (and this is consistent across ALL their batches - Eric just uses "puffy" powder whereas TFH mashes their very compact stuff down. As a result it's always easier to make capsules with TFH).

For me your 10 grams (of 2 grams each) would be enough for three or four days - I truly have cut WAY down (from around 24 grams per day). And, as I said, it's MUCH better. The trick is to stay with it (and, as I say, lower your expectations. Try and forget you even took some - easy to do with capsules, probably a LOT harder with just the powder).

[StarfishArtifice]

Here's tomorrow's 10 grams


https://ibb.co/5GPx4wX

Am I seeing right- you store doses in folded up pieces of card stock? Bet it empties into whatever vessel nice and easy. I may have to try this when on the go!

[mivanqua]

And you can hook the ends together and it locks it BUT make sure to keep the kratom out of the folding parts, it will dribble out. And you may have to make the pieces bigger to fit your dose. That's not against the rules.

The guitar is off for now Although I am happy to say she will get better. It's called "Pyometria." Blood EVERYWHERE and it scared the shit out of me.

Here's her relaxing now.

https://ibb.co/7v6PG7F

If you wanna see my heart, there it is all black and fuzzy.

[StarfishArtifice]

And you can hook the ends together and it locks it BUT make sure to keep the kratom out of the folding parts, it will dribble out. And you may have to make the pieces bigger to fit your dose. That's not against the rules.

Thanks I learned something. I used to do origami as a kid, I'm confident I can manage how to do this effectively.

[herbalhippie]

And you can hook the ends together and it locks it BUT make sure to keep the kratom out of the folding parts, it will dribble out. And you may have to make the pieces bigger to fit your dose. That's not against the rules.


hippie, et. al.,

Without even looking, are you making bindles?

[IndelibleDotInk]

I took this picture to show Betty (my daughter's mom and my roommate.) this guitar, which I think I'm buying. Is it me? It DEFINITELY sounds like me.

https://ibb.co/CtgKc5Q

looks like that guitar is a part of you, belongs with you. looks aren't everything, though, I'm sure you know.

[IndelibleDotInk]

And you can hook the ends together and it locks it BUT make sure to keep the kratom out of the folding parts, it will dribble out. And you may have to make the pieces bigger to fit your dose. That's not against the rules.


hippie, et. al.,

Without even looking, are you making bindles?

rofl

[mivanqua]

And you can hook the ends together and it locks it BUT make sure to keep the kratom out of the folding parts, it will dribble out. And you may have to make the pieces bigger to fit your dose. That's not against the rules.


hippie, et. al.,

Without even looking, are you making bindles?

rofl

The opposite of bindles. Seldnid? ALTHOUGH it could be argued that "bindles" (never heard that word and had to look it up) are the only good thing I learned from drug addiction. I use them all the time. Haha!

And the guitar is off for now, I came back home and my kitty is super sick, we are taking her to the vet today.

My first dealer, however, did it completely differently and I wish I paid more attention. He had a super cool and pinch-proof way of folding. If your middle went in, you knew it then.

But yeah, I guess that's what they are maybe? Thanks for the new word . Haha!

[Kelleytoons]

And the guitar is off for now, I came back home and my kitty is super sick, we are taking her to the vet today.

Hope you get her well - our three girls are basically our kids nowadays, and we'd be lost without them.

[mivanqua]

Thanks Kelly. I updated the above post with her condition.
She's gunna be alright although I need to get her neutered (spayed? I always get them confused) after she recovers. So much for the Gold Bone for now. Haha!

[herbalhippie]

Without even looking, are you making bindles?

rofl

The opposite of bindles. Seldnid? ALTHOUGH it could be argued that "bindles" (never heard that word and had to look it up) are the only good thing I learned from drug addiction. I use them all the time. Haha!

And the guitar is off for now, I came back home and my kitty is super sick, we are taking her to the vet today.

My first dealer, however, did it completely differently and I wish I paid more attention. He had a super cool and pinch-proof way of folding. If your middle went in, you knew it then.

But yeah, I guess that's what they are maybe? Thanks for the new word . Haha!

Yeah, you cut a square out of a glossy page in a 1980s Gourmet magazine, fold it into a triangle, pull in the two points on the folded side.....

[IndelibleDotInk]

gotta be glossy, that's all i remember, so it won't absorb the coke, lol.

hoping your kitty gets better, and get her spayed (spayed is always for girls, neutered can be for girl and boy kits, dunno why). Has she had a heat or two? It's better if you wait til she is a little older so her hormones and stuff will develop her body. But you can do it earlier, it's just not optimal.

i miss my cats. my mom took in one as a favor/rescue from their friend, and the damn thing most times doesn't like me. my cats before, and my mom's past cats were so loving, i miss em. and my dog, lol.

good of you to wait on the guitar.

[IndelibleDotInk]

i was working and going back to my car when i saw three people approaching me. each had a sweet pitmix pup and i felt so good to see them, i smiled, nice to see people taking care of their dogs. the doggies were trotting and and sniffing happily, but then they passed by me and one of the dogs had a swollen, inside-out anus the size of a huge doughnut covered in infectious sprinkles as his rear end. I felt so sick. I remember a couple years back a lady i had met a couple times was making a commotion trying to buy a dog from a homeless person, who was resisting. There wasn't anything visibly wrong with that dog, but that is how i felt, should i try to buy the dog? damn thing probably would just die if i took it to the vet.

[Lokey]

Oh no, that's awful to see that and feel helpless to do anything. Poor pup

I had to Google bindles, new word to me.

[brave777]

best buzz will be right after runny nose. if heavy doser, your runny nose might happen in 3 days, but if you dose once 3-4 grams first thing in the morning, runny nose should happen next morning. depends if you work out and type of food you eat to feel it even better. eat fast food, dont expect buzzing nodding away fro 3-4 grams, one time per day.

[WhiteAngelica]

I do. I am in pain and morbidly depressed. As you know, I have chronic pain/illness and I am a caregiver for my partner who was randomly diagnosed with stge 3 cancer in January. Fortunately, Liza's Happy Go Lucky is my answer, along with Otie's House Mix for depression, and my pain menu is quite different. I try to blend the two to keep all sorts of pain at bay.

I chase the something. I chase the light.

[pray4peace4]

When I find the desired effects disappearing, I drop my dose down to 1g and continue my regular schedule for 2 days. The 3rd day is always stupendous as I go back up to 1.75 to 2g. I do technically chase sometimes. If my normal dose starts to ebb at 1 hour in, sometimes I'll dose another 1g, but in all honesty it rarely works. Today I started with 2g of TFH Bali Bliss & all I got was mild wobbles. An hour later I was fed up with feeling bad so I took 1g of Smiley's Red Bali. Ahhhh... relief with a cherry on top. So it does work sometimes.

If I'm taking the kratom for intense pain, that all changes. Being in my 70s & doing all my own yard work, like trimming or cutting down trees, things happen to old bones & muscles. I'm struggling with a torn muscle at the moment. I've noticed that kratom's pain killing ability works best at really high doses & seems to work independently of the mood enhancements, so I'll jump up to 4 - 5g to get relief. I've noticed that even strains that I consider as duds will kill pain at double the normal dose. So all the normal rules go out the window.

[boureka]

Yes I chased the buzz.. but, and it's been said before, many many times...it's a trip to nowhere. One night I took my usual dose, 3.25 and nothing. So I bumped it 45 minutes later. Nothing. So I threw caution to the wind and took another dose an hour later. Nothing!! Absofreakinglutely nothing. That was a wakeup call that I'd filed my receptors down to nibs and I needed to taper waaayyy down. The only way to get the buzz is to turn your back on that thinking and give it a rest. That's my story. Chasing it by not chasing it.

[BallzDeep9]

--- A wakeup call that I'd filed my receptors down to nibs and I needed to taper waaayyy down.

Yep sounds like you filled up those receptor buckets & no more room! Fortunately... in my experience, just a couple days break, will UP regulate your system & then start back at "Lowest Threshold Dose" and then... stay there. Few years ago I was doing 7 gram servings, wow. Then did a taper & re-set, started back @ 2 grams I was amazed it felt better.

I'm down to ONE gram, base line now.. 2X or 3X per day, and ANY time I want, I can bump that up to 2 grams and get a very strong buzz - which I do, about every other day ? Just weird how, it feels better @ lower amount. "Less is More" indeed

[xymoriintus]

--- A wakeup call that I'd filed my receptors down to nibs and I needed to taper waaayyy down.

Yep sounds like you filled up those receptor buckets & no more room! Fortunately... in my experience, just a couple days break, will UP regulate your system & then start back at "Lowest Threshold Dose" and then... stay there. Few years ago I was doing 7 gram servings, wow. Then did a taper & re-set, started back @ 2 grams I was amazed it felt better.

I'm down to ONE gram, base line now.. 2X or 3X per day, and ANY time I want, I can bump that up to 2 grams and get a very strong buzz - which I do, about every other day ? Just weird how, it feels better @ lower amount. "Less is More" indeed

Isn't that awesome how that works! Try that with pain pills lol

[Madvillain626]

need to lower my dose. started at 3g. then went up to 4g during the pandemic with a 1g bump an hour later.

now i often start off with 4.5g during the day and 5g at night, on top of a 1g bump an hour later. so a night dose can easily become 6,7, 8 (!!) grams. yeah i gotta fall back

I would try a taper but honestly my self-control is kind of shot right now. It's all or nothing. So that means a cold turkey t-break for me followed by a return to my sweet spot of 3g. no bumps, just 3g.

[Nelson Baboon]

what several people had told me, before i came here and read great threads like this, is that very, very gradually tapering was the way to go.

i went crazy when i found small batch stuff, and was well over 20g a day, and often dosed at more than 10g. But then, ouch. sometimes no effect, and then feeling like utter shit when stuff wore off.

i've been trying the gradual tapering, but it's taking forever. (down to 3.4g per dose today, but i'll probably hit 4 doses, plus some hirsuta and javanica).

I find myself very nervous about going as low as 1g, but hell - the worst that can happen is that i try it, it doesn't work, and i go back to the very gradual tapering.

lol - this is the best forum i've ever found. really appreciating it.

[mivanqua]

Lots of people here take one gram (OR LESS SOMETIMES) per dose. It's a weird substance for sure but it seems that less really is more for most, you just have to taper, ane thats whete it gets sticky.