HOW MUCH YOU DOSE AND HOW OFTEN

[Daydreamsofmountains]

1.3-1.5 grams 3-4x / day. Almost two years taking it with two or three multi-day breaks.

[Redlion40]

For anybody interested in lowering their tolerance, if you take a smaller amount per dose than you normally do, this triggers something called a compensatory response which basically resensitizes your receptors. You only have to do this for about a day or two. So for instance if I normally take 3g at a time, take something like 1g. When your body gets used to a certain amount it reaches a level of homeostasis so by taking a lower amount you are changing the baseline. This works with all substances.

[Laughing Dragon]

Way too much, especially after reading this thread. Just recently I went up to 6g doses and lately it's been more and more often. (But really I've always been one to redose to soon)
I blame being stressed lately but I need to show a little more self control... And I'm sure if I lower my doses and space them out longer I'd get better effects and the magic would come back

[Rambo]

For anybody interested in lowering their tolerance, if you take a smaller amount per dose than you normally do, this triggers something called a compensatory response which basically resensitizes your receptors. You only have to do this for about a day or two. So for instance if I normally take 3g at a time, take something like 1g. When your body gets used to a certain amount it reaches a level of homeostasis so by taking a lower amount you are changing the baseline. This works with all substances.

Agree with this 100%. I take ~3g myself, 3x daily. Sometimes taking a fourth dose ~1g before bed as well. When tolerance creeps up, I intuitively think to raise my dose in 10-15% increments, which sometimes works but inevitably (and rather quickly) hits a brick wall. Taking more but feeling less than before. When that happens I lower my dose to 2g or so, which feels weak but actually burns better than something like 4-4.5g. After a couple of days I’m back to taking 3g and feeling the effects as I normally do.
At the same time, I have a rotating schedule taking supplements like PEA, Agmatine, DLPA, Cat’s Claw, Turmeric, Bioperine, Garlic, etc. which seems to slow the rate of tolerance buildup.

[Kelleytoons]

For anybody interested in lowering their tolerance, if you take a smaller amount per dose than you normally do, this triggers something called a compensatory response which basically resensitizes your receptors. You only have to do this for about a day or two. So for instance if I normally take 3g at a time, take something like 1g. When your body gets used to a certain amount it reaches a level of homeostasis so by taking a lower amount you are changing the baseline. This works with all substances.

Wow, I want to steal this.

Echoes what happened to me - I was up to 7-9 grams with little effect and tried 2.5-3grams and presto! So now that's my dose (but I might try your idea of going lower because the temptation to take more is creeping up again...)

[Trippin_Buddha]

I’ve been all over the place with dosing. For now, I take 2.5g-2.8g three times a day. ~8g/day.

If I dose too high my burns mute and I get anxious. After the honeymoon phase of being able to take 5g / dose, I basically had to keep lowering my dose to get effects. I didn’t know this at the time and was grasping at straws for awhile. If I take much more per day than I’m taking now it will happen again.

I don’t need as much kratom as I once thought. There was a time I thought no way could it work for me at low dose like that.

[kratomku]

I started eating kratom since 2017, usually the dose will increase according to the body's needs, why? because our activities are very excessive, so we don't realize we have eaten high doses

[Wingardiumspeciosa]

I started eating kratom since 2017, usually the dose will increase according to the body's needs, why? because our activities are very excessive, so we don't realize we have eaten high doses

What?

[kratomku]

Our bodies will read the kratom we eat, usually more effective if you eat a different kratom

[Roofdog]

I started eating kratom since 2017, usually the dose will increase according to the body's needs, why? because our activities are very excessive, so we don't realize we have eaten high doses

What?

I second the "what"???

[kratomku]

the dose will increase every year from half a spoon to 1 spoon

[FriendshipGulag]

I was dosing 8-10 times a day T&W with doses around 2.5g each. Finally came to the realization that it was too frequent and started to taper a few days ago. Why would I want to be dependent on consuming something every 3 hours? I’ve made it down to 3-4 doses a day. Had two spans of about 24 hours without it. Initially in the beginning wasn't feeling comfortable about 5-6 hours after dose but now I'm good being without for at least 12-24 hours. I dont want my life to revolve around dosing so often and would actually like to go to Europe without worrying about getting arrested or feeling like shit. I plan on tapering actual dose size and frequency more and prove to myself i can jump off completely if needed.

[Kelleytoons]

the dose will increase every year from half a spoon to 1 spoon

Um..no.

I went all the way up to 7-9 grams at a time but now am back to 2.5-3 grams and it's just fine (even better. MUCH better).

As long as you rotate, are in good health otherwise, and take a break every now and then there's no need to increase your dose.

[Arob1000]

I'm at 4-5g/dose 3x/day and have been hovering around that for a while. Ever since I started taking 1g of black seed oil (capsules) at night I haven't felt the need to take any tolerence breaks. I also started dabbling with extracts and to my surprise sporadic use (2-3x/week) don't effect my tolerance! I keep my extract dosing to ~100-140mg of mit and my usual leaf dose is 50-100mg mit depending on leaf quality.

[Eu4oric906]

Wow nice, i started with the black seed a few weeks ago figuring why not its got a lot of benefits though taste not being one of them. Experimenting w different timings, definitely was able to cut a dose in half and still feel it fully when taking it prior to a dose. Cant speak to any tolerance benefits just yet but that would be outstanding. Interesting.

[kratomku]

the dose will increase every year from half a spoon to 1 spoon

Um..no.

I went all the way up to 7-9 grams at a time but now am back to 2.5-3 grams and it's just fine (even better. MUCH better).

As long as you rotate, are in good health otherwise, and take a break every now and then there's no need to increase your dose.

it seems I lacked exercise, so the dose went up, whether it's related to the dose, I don't know

[WeAllFloatHere7]

I've been all over the place with my dosing. Getting as low as 3g per dose, and currently at 6.3g during the day 2x and 8g at night time. At this point, no matter what amount I take (low or high) I only feel it maybe 30% of the time and when I do, it only lasts for about an hour if I'm lucky. Been using Kava for the anxiety during this period and thats been helping a lot but getting really expensive using as much of it as I do.

Trying to figure out a way to get the kratom feeling back, but no matter how low I taper, no matter how much more extra I take, potentiators, tolerance reducers, etc. nothing works

[Kelleytoons]

Trying to figure out a way to get the kratom feeling back, but no matter how low I taper, no matter how much more extra I take, potentiators, tolerance reducers, etc. nothing works

The obvious question is - did you take at least a three day break?

After that the most reasonable things to be sure of is that you are having a daily BM (VERY important) and taking it only on an empty stomach (no sooner than three hours after you eat). If you are otherwise healthy it should work at the lowered doses for sure.

[Detuned]

What is BM ,Kelley?

[Babel-17]

I've been all over the place with my dosing. Getting as low as 3g per dose, and currently at 6.3g during the day 2x and 8g at night time. At this point, no matter what amount I take (low or high) I only feel it maybe 30% of the time and when I do, it only lasts for about an hour if I'm lucky. Been using Kava for the anxiety during this period and thats been helping a lot but getting really expensive using as much of it as I do.

Trying to figure out a way to get the kratom feeling back, but no matter how low I taper, no matter how much more extra I take, potentiators, tolerance reducers, etc. nothing works

You might benefit from taking two grams or so of either good Ginger powder or, even better, a good Ginger extract. I'm frugal, so I take Ginger extract in powdered form, and I buy it by either the kilo or half kilo size. I use Bulk Supplement's, and since I have Subscribe and Save with Amazon, it's cheaper with them than at Bulk Supplement's site.

A knowledgeable sounding poster at Reddit explained why two grams of a good extract should be enough to get the same effect that rats did in the study that gets cited. Ginger has lots of fans for its reputed benefits, and not just reducing tolerance to opioids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22472107/

Results: Our results showed that chronic morphine-injected rats displayed tolerance to the analgesic effect of morphine as well as morphine dependence. Ginger (50 and 100 mg/kg) completely prevented the development of morphine tolerance. In addition, concomitant treatment of morphine with 100 and 150 mg/kg attenuated almost all of the naloxone-induced withdrawal sings which include weight lose, abdominal contraction, diarrhea, petosis, teeth chattering, and jumping. In addition, morphine-induced L-type calcium channel over-expression in spinal cord was reversed by 100 mg/kg ginger.

Conclusion: The data indicate that ginger extract has a potential anti-tolerant/anti-dependence property against chronic usage of morphine.

Caveat emptor, YMMV, and imo even if it does help with one's opioid receptors, that won't necessarily mean that the burns of taking Kratom will provide more of a boost. Ginger can be stimulating in and of itself, but afaik it doesn't help with the tolerance we can get to the stimulating effects of Kratom.

Maybe Agmatine, 750 mg. taken a few times a week, might help with that, or maybe not. Some people find Agmatine can produce too much of an edgy effect, so caveat emptor, YMMV, with that as well. Taking it every day is not recommended, btw.

[Babel-17]

What is BM ,Kelley?

BM = Bowel Movement.

[Jking]

I’ve actually cut back from 6 grams two to three times a day to three grams about two times a day. I might do a third three gram serving occasionally. I only weighted in the 140 range closer to 140 than 150 so I think 6 grams was way to much. I’m 5:11 according to the military so I actually Am right at the line of minimum weight for my height I think that plays a role. I’ve noticed many substances hit me pretty hard; sometimes even three grams on an empty stomach is just slightly to much sometimes but not to the point where I’m felt the need to change it but if I did I think I would go down to about 2.5 probably. Now I been meaning to stock up on extracts before I go to Las Vegas for a trip so I can dose more easily this weekend. I find with extracts I usually take to much but never seem to get bad feelings like the threshold is higher on extracts.

[Kelleytoons]

I know there are some who say they've never taken a break and kratom is working fine for them but those folks are also the ones who never have issues with their dose. To me, taking a break is absolutely the best way to reset things if kratom isn't working for you. At least three days but a week is probably better.

The thing I don't understand about those folks who complain about doing a reset is why it's even an issue. If the kratom they are taking isn't working, why in heaven's name would stopping it be an issue? IOW, if you say "I take lots and it has no effect but I absolutely can't stop taking it" then I don't think you are understanding the process. In those instances it's almost surely a psychological rather than physiological issue and you just need to get your head straight. Try looking at your time away from kratom as a goal - "Hey, today I went 5 hours, tomorrow I went 7 hours, the next day I did 10" etc. Soon you'll be skipping one day, then two, and then three. Even those hooked on it psychologically can do this kind of taper. THEN after the reset just make sure you dose small - no more than 3 grams. That ought to straighten things out.

[WeAllFloatHere7]

I've been all over the place with my dosing. Getting as low as 3g per dose, and currently at 6.3g during the day 2x and 8g at night time. At this point, no matter what amount I take (low or high) I only feel it maybe 30% of the time and when I do, it only lasts for about an hour if I'm lucky. Been using Kava for the anxiety during this period and thats been helping a lot but getting really expensive using as much of it as I do.

Trying to figure out a way to get the kratom feeling back, but no matter how low I taper, no matter how much more extra I take, potentiators, tolerance reducers, etc. nothing works

You might benefit from taking two grams or so of either good Ginger powder or, even better, a good Ginger extract. I'm frugal, so I take Ginger extract in powdered form, and I buy it by either the kilo or half kilo size. I use Bulk Supplement's, and since I have Subscribe and Save with Amazon, it's cheaper with them than at Bulk Supplement's site.

A knowledgeable sounding poster at Reddit explained why two grams of a good extract should be enough to get the same effect that rats did in the study that gets cited. Ginger has lots of fans for its reputed benefits, and not just reducing tolerance to opioids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22472107/

Results: Our results showed that chronic morphine-injected rats displayed tolerance to the analgesic effect of morphine as well as morphine dependence. Ginger (50 and 100 mg/kg) completely prevented the development of morphine tolerance. In addition, concomitant treatment of morphine with 100 and 150 mg/kg attenuated almost all of the naloxone-induced withdrawal sings which include weight lose, abdominal contraction, diarrhea, petosis, teeth chattering, and jumping. In addition, morphine-induced L-type calcium channel over-expression in spinal cord was reversed by 100 mg/kg ginger.

Conclusion: The data indicate that ginger extract has a potential anti-tolerant/anti-dependence property against chronic usage of morphine.

Caveat emptor, YMMV, and imo even if it does help with one's opioid receptors, that won't necessarily mean that the burns of taking Kratom will provide more of a boost. Ginger can be stimulating in and of itself, but afaik it doesn't help with the tolerance we can get to the stimulating effects of Kratom.

Maybe Agmatine, 750 mg. taken a few times a week, might help with that, or maybe not. Some people find Agmatine can produce too much of an edgy effect, so caveat emptor, YMMV, with that as well. Taking it every day is not recommended, btw.

I totally forgot about ginger! I used to use it a lot. I should really pick some up again.

For Agmatine, it kills my kratom feels. I used to use it in preworkouts (great vasodilator, and makes my citrulline pump last significantly longer) at 1.5-2g daily but it really crushed my kratom effects so I backed off. I miss those pumps in the gym though lol.

[WeAllFloatHere7]

I know there are some who say they've never taken a break and kratom is working fine for them but those folks are also the ones who never have issues with their dose. To me, taking a break is absolutely the best way to reset things if kratom isn't working for you. At least three days but a week is probably better.

The thing I don't understand about those folks who complain about doing a reset is why it's even an issue. If the kratom they are taking isn't working, why in heaven's name would stopping it be an issue? IOW, if you say "I take lots and it has no effect but I absolutely can't stop taking it" then I don't think you are understanding the process. In those instances it's almost surely a psychological rather than physiological issue and you just need to get your head straight. Try looking at your time away from kratom as a goal - "Hey, today I went 5 hours, tomorrow I went 7 hours, the next day I did 10" etc. Soon you'll be skipping one day, then two, and then three. Even those hooked on it psychologically can do this kind of taper. THEN after the reset just make sure you dose small - no more than 3 grams. That ought to straighten things out.

For me its the withdrawal symptoms that are an issue. I did the 4g dose yesterday and didn't feel too bad. It helped a bit with pain but nothing else really. Shaved a gram off my night time dose last night and didn't feel much, but woke up early this morning to being restless as hell and overall extremely uncomfortable. Thats what I'm trying to fix, but just up and stopping is 100% not an option with those symptoms. I'm a consultant and am constantly in meetings and can't be restless and unattentive during them.

[Kelleytoons]

Then what I say is to continue to lengthen the time between doses. Once you get to 16-20 hours you can do a day, then two days, then three days and then you're clear.

It really is psychological - not to say that mental things aren't real, just that they aren't in your body. So strengthen your mind and you will conquer this.

[HalcyonicFrankfurter]

Currently, I'm dosing 9g per day. Always as boiled and filtered tea. It's just 9g in a pot in the morning for 30 mins.
I drink about 1/3rd of it in the morning and 2/3rds in the evening (about 5-6 hours before bed). I use the same strain for the whole day, so I'm always looking for balanced greens. I tend to take the same strain for several days and then it gives me pressure, then I change to a different one.

A year ago, I was doing 20gpd and for a very brief period, 24gpd. It was split into 2.5 glasses. It was too much. I later learned I didn't actually need that much. Seemed like I did in the beginning cause it was getting weaker, so I kept raising the dose. Now it's alright at 8-9g, but that's my bare minimum.

[Detuned]

@kelleytoons

If you are not physically dependent on kratom, like you are, then its very easy to say Why dont you simply make a tolerance break.

But once you are phys. Dependant, you cannot Just easily stop for one week like snapping with you Fingers, especially when you have a Job, family, (small)'Kids and so on.
You need to plan such a t-break, like take one week off from work, best is to rent hotel room for a few days, otherwise you have you small Kids jumping on you in the Morning, when you dont feel like doing anything and Just want to be alone.
At least That is how I See it. Sure, no comparison to getting off of H or similiar shit, but still nothing you can Just do spontanously when your leaf is not kicking anymore.
In my opinion there are 2 Kind of users. The physicall addicts and the addicts. I wish i Was Just an addict like you (no Front ) and could Just say, hey the next 3 days i am not taking anything.

In the end its all up to ME, but i Just wanted to point out that t-breaking is not as easy once you are a high daily doser.

[Kelleytoons]

I think you missed my point - what I was saying was that IF you are psychological addicted to it (no other way - there is no physical component to kratom, unlike other substances) then the way to do it is to increase SLOWLY your length of time away from it. Let's say you dose every four hours (I assume even the most addicted don't USUALLY dose more frequently than that). So one day you try for four hours and 30 minutes. Then the next day you try for five hours. And the next day five hours 30 minutes. Soon you can go a whole day and you keep increasing the distance accordingly.

This isn't a "taper" per se - you can keep the same dose - but it works because humans in general don't have a very accurate sense of time. Time is EXTREMELY relative, and when doing this you must use a device to accurately do it (but nowadays such devices are in everyone's pocket all the time :>). No muss, no fuss and no need for anything really drastic (if you find that the reduction is too fast then just hold - take a week at four hours and 30 minutes if you need to. Eventually you WILL be able to do it and never even notice it).

I used to do a LOT of substance counseling - I hate the play the "expert" card here but this is something I really do know something about. I promise you you can do it. (Whether you WANT to do it or not is another matter entirely. As we used to say about whether a baby had pooped in its pants and needed changing - first the baby needs to WANT to change :>).

[Detuned]

Hey Kelley, what do you exactly mean with "there is no physical component to kratom" ?

[Kelleytoons]

I meant what I said. Just read the sentence again.

[Detuned]

I am not native American speaking, i still dont really understand your point, otherwise i wouldnt ask.

Do you mean kratom cannot make one physical addicted?

[Rambo]

Kelley, while I agree with your points, I do not think it’s accurate to say Kratom is not physically addictive. For an average person taking doses >=6 grams, multiple times a day, to go cold turkey would almost certainly lead to physical withdrawals for a good week or so. Speaking from my own experience many years ago, I made a concerted effort to stop a 12 gpd habit (6g, 2x daily) and that’s exactly what happened. The first 72 hours I got no sleep whatsoever and had all the other symptoms to boot. After a week it was purely mental. Fortunately Kratom is a very mild plant in this regard and I think anyone has the ability to stop.

All that being said, I agree with everything else you wrote, just chiming in that I believe a slow taper is more manageable before taking a few days break. Going from 2g or 1g to nothing will be much, much easier to do, and I think we all need to take a break every now and again to keep the magic.

[Bandit357]

I use Kratom to stop the rls which was caused by kratom
Yes it is physically addictive i will look like a tweaker trippin out
if i dont take kratom when rls hits

[uspatriot995]

The coolest thing next to the fact that it's legal is the fact that you get to chose your batches, vendors, doses and frequency, and it's no one else's business unless you want it to be.

[Cate120]

Lately I've been dosing 7g in the am before I have to deal with people (to help with social anxiety) then abot 5g after work. On weekends about 7g before the gym then 5g 2 more time throughout the day. I'm relatively new to kratom and still finding my "sweet spot". I'm thinking this may be closest I've come.

[MetalMamaRocks]

I dose 2 grams 2 or 3 times a day. When I first started almost 7 years ago I quickly got up to 5 grams 5 times a day. I started feeling miserable, tired all the time, my skin looked dull, and I had terrible stomach issues. If I tried to take a break I would have withdrawal, especially RLS.

I did a taper and got down to where I'm at today, and have been here around 5 years. I enjoy kratom so much more and I can take a few days off with no problem whatsoever.

[FiscalDisco]

2.5 to 3g once on weekends normally. I don't usually dose again unless the effects from dose one were unremarkable. I have not been getting the magic lately considering how low my tolerance should be for some reason.

[Kelleytoons]

Remember the golden rules: always have a daily BM (keep those bowels open), take on an empty stomach, and change strains frequently (no more than the same one once every three days). You can break all of these rules (and many do without issues) but if you have problems those are worth following.

[FiscalDisco]

Thank you Kelly, I appreciate that. I think you might be right about the available surface area in the gut for the alkaloid to absorb. I will remember the golden triangle!