Palmitoylethanolamide - a novel OPIOID tolerance reducer

[guitartodd77]

Has anyone noticed magnesium blocking some of the effects of kratom for them?

I have and just recently discontinued supplementing with it until I can pin point what may be happening there.

[Lambeezy]

Has anyone noticed magnesium blocking some of the effects of kratom for them?

I have and just recently discontinued supplementing with it until I can pin point what may be happening there.

How long were you taking it before your next dose? I didn’t take mine yesterday and my burn this morning was good af

[Theanine]

Has anyone noticed magnesium blocking some of the effects of kratom for them?

I have and just recently discontinued supplementing with it until I can pin point what may be happening there.

Interesting, I am always on the lookout for anything that may interfere with Kratom's positive mood lifting effects.

Would you care to elaborate? Like when do you take your Magnesium in relation to Kratom, which form is it, etc.

Thanks for the good info!

[herbalhippie]

I thought magnesium was supposed to be a potentiator.

[Lambeezy]

The past few weeks I have been taking magnesium glycinate an hour before bed, 9 hours before my first dose. And I’ve noticed my first burn of the day has been whack no matter how fire the kratom. And my evening burn is a lot better but still felt like I was missing something. I was chalking it up to tolerance. But I skipped a day yesterday and my burn this evening was great almost even got the wobbles. Who knows tho. I took my magnesium earlier today. It will be 12 hours before my first dose. I’m going to burn BBs white Dayak which is always a hit for me and it’s been almost a week since that strain. I will report back with results. I always wait 10 hours minimum to dose again this burn will be 13.5 hours in between doses with magnesium glycinate at 12 hours before.

[Theanine]

The past few weeks I have been taking magnesium glycinate an hour before bed, 9 hours before my first dose. And I’ve noticed my first burn of the day has been whack no matter how fire the kratom. And my evening burn is a lot better but still felt like I was missing something. I was chalking it up to tolerance. But I skipped a day yesterday and my burn this evening was great almost even got the wobbles. Who knows tho. I took my magnesium earlier today. It will be 12 hours before my first dose. I’m going to burn BBs white Dayak which is always a hit for me and it’s been almost a week since that strain. I will report back with results. I always wait 10 hours minimum to dose again this burn will be 13.5 hours in between doses with magnesium glycinate at 12 hours before.

I too have been a bit suspicious of my Magnesium Glycinate, haven't taken it in a while as a result. Sometimes, it gives me really bad anxiety, and now that there is a suspicion of its interference with Kratom, I am definitely not taking it until further notice. Please, experiment further and get back to us! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, this is some very good info.

[Lambeezy]

The past few weeks I have been taking magnesium glycinate an hour before bed, 9 hours before my first dose. And I’ve noticed my first burn of the day has been whack no matter how fire the kratom. And my evening burn is a lot better but still felt like I was missing something. I was chalking it up to tolerance. But I skipped a day yesterday and my burn this evening was great almost even got the wobbles. Who knows tho. I took my magnesium earlier today. It will be 12 hours before my first dose. I’m going to burn BBs white Dayak which is always a hit for me and it’s been almost a week since that strain. I will report back with results. I always wait 10 hours minimum to dose again this burn will be 13.5 hours in between doses with magnesium glycinate at 12 hours before.

I too have been a bit suspicious of my Magnesium Glycinate, haven't taken it in a while as a result. Sometimes, it gives me really bad anxiety, and now that there is a suspicion of its interference with Kratom, I am definitely not taking it until further notice. Please, experiment further and get back to us! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, this is some very good info.

I do enjoy pooping 3 times a day even tho I’m taking kratom but I seriously think it has to be affecting me. I’m not taking any tommorow and gonna re visit some new speciosa life strains I got over the weekend that seemed good to me but I felt like wasn’t hitting there full potential also. My anxiety has been thru the roof lately also.

[Lambeezy]

Update with the magnesium. I took it 12 hours before next dose. Definitely less blocking. I’m going to try no magnesium tommorow.

[guitartodd77]

Received my PEA this afternoon. I went with Nootropics Depot 30x 400mg caps for $20. I realize that I probably paid too much but I have this thing about Amazon now. Long story.

https://nootropicsdepot.com/palmitoylet ... -capsules/

If this works as well as I hope it does, I'll go back in and buy bulk at a lower price.

Thanks again for the recommendations.

[herbalhippie]

Received my PEA this afternoon. I went with Nootropics Depot 30x 400mg caps for $20. I realize that I probably paid too much but I have this thing about Amazon now. Long story.

https://nootropicsdepot.com/palmitoylet ... -capsules/

I got these as well and it's about the same price on Amazon. I started out taking half of one of the Life Extension tablets but switched over to these a couple days ago.

[Theanine]

I thought magnesium was supposed to be a potentiator.

No, Magnesium certainly does not potentiate Kratom, not much does. Only a couple of essential oils actually increase (potentiate) Kratom's effects. Magnesium reduces opioid tolerance via its NMDA antagonism. However, I have long suspected that it somehow partially blocks Kratom's effects if taken close to each other, as so many things do with Kratom. There is no documented scientific evidence of Magnesium's interference with opioids or just with Kratom, but it doesn't mean that there is not one. Frankly, I don't believe it to be a potent tolerance reducer anyways, so there is hardly a point of taking the risk of it blocking our Kratom. I will consider adding it back into the regimen, probably the Citrate form as the Glycinate offers its own dimension, which I am not certain is positive.

The nature of biochemistry is such that a single chemical substance which is added to the mix could change the character of effects of every other substance already in that mix.

[Haid3r]

FINALLY got my ComfortMax AM/PM yesterday ("prime" shipping my butt, lol). I took my first half-tab PM dose before bed last night, and a half-tab AM dose as soon as my eyes opened this morning. My PM dose was six hours after my burn, my AM dose was six hours before my burn — I only burn 1x/day.

My experience may be apocryphal as it's only my first day, but my sleep last night was phenomenal. Got up to pee around 2 AM, and I barely got back to the mattress before I was zonked again. And it was gooood sleep, too. I remember thinking as I drifted off "this is the most comfortable I have ever been. Gosh, I sure love this pillow..." If this is a placebo effect I hope it never ends, lol.

Today's burn was 2.6g of STH PMD, and so far it's two thumbs up. No decrease in potency from the ComfortMax, and my shoulder feels fantastic — I can reach around my chest and touch my opposite shoulderblade without pain, and that's rare. Mood is lovely, I've actually enjoyed talking with customers today, rather than feeling like an angry fraud. Feels like I could even scale back my dose and still have good results, which is great.

Again, this could all be placebo effect but I'm encouraged. I'm going to keep taking the tablets.

[Payshince]

I thought magnesium was supposed to be a potentiator.

Yes exactly ! Hmm

What form as Theanine asked?

I take Magnesium L-Threonate
Kinda pricey from ND but it works very well and supposedly is the “(Best)” form for Metabolization

I may have already said this elsewhere lol anyway...

Must be the Form of Magnesium, tricky paradox...

[Payshince]

BTW everybody,
I ended up ordering both DLPA D-L-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine, NOT (PEA). ***

I know Theanine has spoken of both PEA and DLPA !

I just wanted to mention due to some potential confusion esp. myself where I purchased some DLPA and L-PA?

I somehow lost track of PEA and focused my attention just on DLPA

Woops
There must be a fix for that also haha
Anyhooo just thought I’d share!

DLPA (Not this Palmitoylethanolamide- PEA Topic) is also very interesting and maybe I’m not the only one who has been looking at both?..


Going to try BOTH very soon
To Be Continued

[Payshince]

I thought magnesium was supposed to be a potentiator.

No, Magnesium certainly does not potentiate Kratom, not much does. Only a couple of essential oils actually increase (potentiate) Kratom's effects. Magnesium reduces opioid tolerance via its NMDA antagonism. However, I have long suspected that it somehow partially blocks Kratom's effects if taken close to each other, as so many things do with Kratom. There is no documented scientific evidence of Magnesium's interference with opioids or just with Kratom, but it doesn't mean that there is not one. Frankly, I don't believe it to be a potent tolerance reducer anyways, so there is hardly a point of taking the risk of it blocking our Kratom. I will consider adding it back into the regimen, probably the Citrate form as the Glycinate offers its own dimension, which I am not certain is positive.

The nature of biochemistry is such that a single chemical substance which is added to the mix could change the character of effects of every other substance already in that mix.

READ THIS
Kats Botanicals aka Justin Kats or Wade Herman (Wades Wednesday) lol, has different articles on The Kats B website and this is one article you may want to check out!!
Magnesium - scroll down

https://katsbotanicals.com/kats-kratom- ... om-powder/

‘Potentiators’

[Payshince]

“Pooping 3 times a day”



W T F . . .

[Theanine]

BTW everybody,
I ended up ordering both DLPA D-L-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine, NOT (PEA). ***

I know Theanine has spoken of both PEA and DLPA !

I just wanted to mention due to some potential confusion esp. myself where I purchased some DLPA and L-PA?

I somehow lost track of PEA and focused my attention just on DLPA

Woops
There must be a fix for that also haha
Anyhooo just thought I’d share!

DLPA (Not this Palmitoylethanolamide- PEA Topic) is also very interesting and maybe I’m not the only one who has been looking at both?..


Going to try BOTH very soon
To Be Continued

I am sorry, no form of Magnesium "potentiates" Kratom! Potentiates means "to make stronger", Magnesium antagonizes the stimulating glutamate receptors (NMDA), that provides for some opioid tolerance reduction. There are other benefits to Magnesium of course, but it just does not make the Kratom stronger. Now, the notion that it interferes with Kratom is interesting, however unproven.

Now, DLPA is a completely different substance. It is both the right (DEXTRO - D) and left (LEVO - L) isomers of an amino acid Phenylalanine. Taking the entire DLPA is preferred as both isomers have completely differing effects. It is, in fact, two substances in one. D-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine. So, if you buy the DLPA, there is no need to also get the D-Phenylalanine or L-Phenylalanine separately.

Palmitoylethanolamide is neither of the above substances but yet something entirely new, a cannabinoid modulator. Cannabinoid and opioid receptors obviously work in tandem in our bodies.

In any case, I hope this clarifies some confusion about those substances.

[guitartodd77]

BTW everybody,
I ended up ordering both DLPA D-L-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine, NOT (PEA). ***

I know Theanine has spoken of both PEA and DLPA !

I just wanted to mention due to some potential confusion esp. myself where I purchased some DLPA and L-PA?

I somehow lost track of PEA and focused my attention just on DLPA

Woops
There must be a fix for that also haha
Anyhooo just thought I’d share!

DLPA (Not this Palmitoylethanolamide- PEA Topic) is also very interesting and maybe I’m not the only one who has been looking at both?..


Going to try BOTH very soon
To Be Continued

I also have DLPA, Cats Claw, BSO and now PEA. I started the DLPA/Cat Claw/BSO cycle for a few days but it did affect the quality of my burns slightly. Then I read that PEA doesn't appear to interfere as much. Consequently, I switched gears to the PEA.

I'm overdue for a long tolerance break so I plan to use the DLPA, Cat Claw and agmatine sulphate right before and during my week off.

Until then, I'm on day 2 of 400mgs of just the PEA at night for now

Side note... the black seed oil was interesting. It seemed to improve those "warm blanket" waves when I first started using it. Nothing drastic but a noticeable difference to me. The improved warm waves effects did begin to diminish as I continued to take BSO through the week. However, it may have been stress that was the catalyst for the diminished "warm wave" effects. I'll eventually add it back in late in my tolerance break.

[Theanine]

I also have DLPA, Cats Claw, BSO and now PEA. I started the DLPA/Cat Claw/BSO cycle for a few days but it did affect the quality of my burns slightly. Then I read that PEA doesn't appear to interfere as much. Consequently, I switched gears to the PEA.

I'm overdue for a long tolerance break so I plan to use the DLPA, Cat Claw and agmatine sulphate right before and during my week off.

Until then, I'm on day 2 of 400mgs of just the PEA at night for now

Side note... the black seed oil was interesting. It seemed to improve those "warm blanket" waves when I first started using it. Nothing drastic but a noticeable difference to me. The improved warm waves effects did begin to diminish as I continued to take BSO through the week. However, it may have been stress that was the catalyst for the diminished "warm wave" effects. I'll eventually add it back in late in my tolerance break.

Good regimen! One note on the Nigella Sativa (Black Seed Oil). It IS an opioid on its own and as such WILL increase your opioid tolerance! Do NOT take it when you are taking your Kratom as it will indubitably INCREASE your opioid tolerance. I have made that mistake myself. Instead, use it for when you are tapering off Kratom, to substitute for it. Taken simultaneously, the effects, and the side effects are cumulative. Please, be careful with it!

[Theanine]

FINALLY got my ComfortMax AM/PM yesterday ("prime" shipping my butt, lol). I took my first half-tab PM dose before bed last night, and a half-tab AM dose as soon as my eyes opened this morning. My PM dose was six hours after my burn, my AM dose was six hours before my burn — I only burn 1x/day.

My experience may be apocryphal as it's only my first day, but my sleep last night was phenomenal. Got up to pee around 2 AM, and I barely got back to the mattress before I was zonked again. And it was gooood sleep, too. I remember thinking as I drifted off "this is the most comfortable I have ever been. Gosh, I sure love this pillow..." If this is a placebo effect I hope it never ends, lol.

Today's burn was 2.6g of STH PMD, and so far it's two thumbs up. No decrease in potency from the ComfortMax, and my shoulder feels fantastic — I can reach around my chest and touch my opposite shoulderblade without pain, and that's rare. Mood is lovely, I've actually enjoyed talking with customers today, rather than feeling like an angry fraud. Feels like I could even scale back my dose and still have good results, which is great.

Again, this could all be placebo effect but I'm encouraged. I'm going to keep taking the tablets.

Good report. This post indicates a possibility of instant opioid tolerance reduction, which would explain such a drastic reaction. I too have experienced it and have also been reading repeat reports about that phenomenon. How does that work? Well, you take the Palmitoylethanolamide, it immediately starts to reduce your opioid tolerance by modulating cannabinoid receptors, so your tolerance actually goes DOWN after going UP for months. Now, you take your regular Kratom dose and BAM, it is now more potent due to the tolerance reduction that the Palmitoylethanolamide had provided, hence the increased results from your Kratom, you're basically rolling back your addiction, perhaps all the way. I have NOT had ANY withdrawals at all since I started the Palmitoylethanolamide. Before it, there were some, sometimes. Also, my overall state of well being is very balanced right now. Previously, I had experienced some intra dose withdrawals if I was not careful with my Kratom dosing. I had to keep it under 20 grams per day. Now, I can do 30 with no ill effects. I do not, this was just for the purposes of a test.

I suggest that others use this tool to decrease their dosages rather than simply trying to catch a better buzz!

[Payshince]

Oh damn I had no idea that Nigella Sativa (Black Seed Oil) increased my Opioid tolerance, as I have been using it almost daily w/ my other morning supplements along with my Kratom burns of course!

Good to know thank you Theanine!

[Crunch]

In recent days, I have been experimenting with the Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA).

Intended Purpose: opioid tolerance reduction. While it is not in itself a cannabinoid, it does modulate cannabinoid receptors (CB1/CB2). It is well known that cannabinoids (CBD, THC, etc.) reverse opioid tolerance.

Results so far: opioid tolerance reduction this substance had provided me thus far has been superior to anything else I have ever tried, including the DLPA and Agmatine. It also boosts the effects of cannabinoids.

Negative Side effects: none thus far.

Dosage: 300 mg of Palmitoylethanolamide shortly after my last daily Kratom dose. Second morning dose will be implemented upon further testing.

It does NOT seem to interfere with Kratom's effects at all, even if taken simultaneously with Kratom, unlike most other tolerance reducers.

I have noticed a boost in Kratom's effects on the day following Palmitoylethanolamide intake. The withdrawal symptoms are also reduced to nearly zero, which was not the case before. Especially at 20 grams per day.

Why bother with your tolerance in the first place?

*Lower dosages

*Increased effects

*NO withdrawals

The reason that the initial magic of Kratom is lost with time is indeed tolerance! Bring that magic back without much effort and pain. Better life through chemistry.

*Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is NOT the same as the Phenethylamine (PEA), they are two completely unrelated substances.

Please, do not take the latter.

*If any supplement that you take causes you any physical or mental discomfort, discontinue that supplement immediately!

Thanks for this! Knowing nothing more than what has been posted it makes me wonder if this substance could potentially help people more rapidly detox from the stronger opiates.I intend to dig into some of the studies later on this evening when I get time.

[CatfatherB]

Theanine, do you recommend taking the p.m. dose (honokiol) for tolerance reduction?

[Theanine]

Theanine, do you recommend taking the p.m. dose (honokiol) for tolerance reduction?

I do not see why not. Take only a half of that dose as well and report back! We eagerly await everyone's reports!

[BallzDeep9]

I am sorry, no form of Magnesium "potentiates" Kratom! Potentiates means "to make stronger", Magnesium antagonizes the stimulating glutamate receptors (NMDA), that provides for some opioid tolerance reduction. There are other benefits to Magnesium of course, but it just does not make the Kratom stronger. Now, the notion that it interferes with Kratom is interesting, however unproven.

My own experience is, I take Mag Citrate daily WITH each dose of kratom, dissolved in liquid. I began using it, as recommended by many experienced folks on Reddit - and for the obvious laxative benefits, which are not pronounced as I divide my daily Mag Citrate over 2-3 doses - One full serving 220 mg or less. It's definitely helped with constipation (Most people get this, but some don't.) So.. don't take your Mag all at once!

I've never thought it "potentiates" kratom. It certainly may help with tolerance ? My burns drinking kratom smoothies are fantastic.. It also helps to alleviate RLS... IN FACT- I just re-upped on Mag Citrate, having consumed an entire 1.10 pound Jar, over like 13 months!

Nutricost brand: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XWZJCNZ/?th=1

[Lambeezy]

My PEA will be here today.. so you guys have been taking it for a couple days. How are you dosing it and can you tell if it’s made a difference?

[guitartodd77]

I've been taking 400mg 2hrs after my last dose for the past four nights. Unfortunately, I'm noticing any change in tolerance or affect. However, I'm long overdue for a tolerance break (which is planned to start after Sunday). I'll continue to take the PEA through next week and hopefully it will ease some of the WDs. If not, I have my Agmatine ready to go.

[Lambeezy]

I read several different experiments. It seems it stops the production of cells that create tolerance. I don’t think it will reduce a tolerance that is already there. I’m going to try pea, cats claw and resume magnesium.

[conscious_conundrum]

I have taken PEA for a week....300mg at night, and so far I have not noticed any change. In fact my morning burns seemed a little duller. My dosing schedule is very regimented and I make sure to take a 12 hour break every night by not dosing after 6 p.m. ever. Last night I did not take any PEA and I am hoping things improve this a.m. I will still continue to experiment with PEA, but not for a few days.

[Lambeezy]

I have taken PEA for a week....300mg at night, and so far I have not noticed any change. In fact my morning burns seemed a little duller. My dosing schedule is very regimented and I make sure to take a 12 hour break every night by not dosing after 6 p.m. ever. Last night I did not take any PEA and I am hoping things improve this a.m. I will still continue to experiment with PEA, but not for a few days.

Did your evening burn seem any better? I might start with 150mg 12 hours before my first dose. With cats claw and magnesium

[Lambeezy]

I took a quarter of my PEA 10 hours before next dose because it came in the mail.

[Payshince]

I did Not notice any changes when I took my DLPA 500mg Cap two days ago..

[Theanine]

Hey guys! I am leaning towards a cycling pattern of use here. I think that this substance most definitely reverses the opioid tolerance, however it might build up in the system causing some blockage of Kratom's effects. This only happens with regular every day use. If, however, we take it every other or third day, the build up no longer occurs and yet the tolerance reduction remains. I had previously suggested this use pattern, and had now decided to implement it. I have been following it lately with better results. I will report back any further findings.

[conscious_conundrum]

I have taken PEA for a week....300mg at night, and so far I have not noticed any change. In fact my morning burns seemed a little duller. My dosing schedule is very regimented and I make sure to take a 12 hour break every night by not dosing after 6 p.m. ever. Last night I did not take any PEA and I am hoping things improve this a.m. I will still continue to experiment with PEA, but not for a few days.

Did your evening burn seem any better? I might start with 150mg 12 hours before my first dose. With cats claw and magnesium

My evening burn hasn't been any better either. I have been under extra stress lately and my lady cycle could have thrown everything off. I am not giving up on PEA just yet....

[guitartodd77]

Just to be clear, I'm not giving up on this either. I think cycling the suppliment makes a lot of sense. I am going to drop to twice a week now. I will resume after day 3 of my complete break. I may start dosing again on day 4 with the PEA just to see how well it performs at keeping my tolerance down.

[CatfatherB]

Is it just the PEA that builds up with every day use? How about cats claw? I've been taking all the tolerance reducers since Saturday, at night and noticed better burns until Thursday. I think it does build up?

[Theanine]

Is it just the PEA that builds up with every day use? How about cats claw? I've been taking all the tolerance reducers since Saturday, at night and noticed better burns until Thursday. I think it does build up?

You can take the Cat's Claw and the DLPA daily without any ill effect. So far, this potential build up is only evidenced with the Palmitoylethanolamide. I got the best results taking it about every other or third day. I only take a half of a 600 mg tablet -- 300 mg. So, I am keeping the dosing very low, and it is still reversing that tolerance quite effectively. If I take it close to my kratom dose, it does seem to dull it, but taking it every other day in the evenings has no negative impact on my Kratom effects.

[Greenbelle]

I ordered the Life Extension from Amazon, but noticed no appreciable results from one dose.
Will try again, & in the early evening/late afternoon after last dose.

[Lambeezy]

I took 150mg of PEA 10 hours before dose. Took my regular dose and it gave me nausea as if I took a higher dose. Next time I will drop my dose at least 1.5-2g. Maybe it did reduce my tolerance I also resumed magnesium yesterday too.

[Theanine]

I took 150mg of PEA 10 hours before dose. Took my regular dose and it gave me nausea as if I took a higher dose. Next time I will drop my dose at least 1.5-2g. Maybe it did reduce my tolerance I also resumed magnesium yesterday too.

Good report. I think we have enough anecdotal evidence to surmise that there is indeed a significant amount of opioid tolerance reduction which this substance provides. Those effects are almost immediate and are cumulative. So, as I have previously stated, there may be a point to use this in a tolerance reduction cycle. Either on a set schedule, let's say every 72 hours, or on as needed basis. When tolerance begins to increase, this supplement can be added to mitigate and then temporarily discontinued when the desired results are achieved.

I personally have been following this more sporadic use pattern with great results. My tolerance is almost non existent, and when it begins to increase, I immediately add this chemical to my supplement soup. The reasoning for this is simple, this stuff is indeed a powerful endocannabinoid and endoopioid system modulator, its strength is of a pharmaceutical caliber. This isn't your Magnesium/DLPA, this is some powerful tool. I believe that it does supersede all of the previously discovered tolerance modulators, even the Agmatine. And just like the Agmatine, it can interfere with Kratom if taken concurrently or close to the Kratom dose.

However, that limitation does not universally apply, many do report no incompatibility with Kratom at all, so this likely depends on personal biochemistry. Either way, this is a useful adjunct as it can be used without diminishing Kratom's effects. In fact, its intended effects actually cause an opposite reaction, an augmentation of Kratom's desired effects via a reduction of opioid tolerance.