Once a day

[Kelleytoons]

So because I'm awaiting my knee operation I don't need to take kratom in the mornings for tennis.

As an experiment (because I intend to completely stop kratom as soon as I have a surgical date, which I should get soon) I cut down my usage from around 3-4 times a day to once a day. It's my nighttime dose (so I can sleep without too much pain) usually taken around 10pm or so (and then to sleep an hour or so later).

It's quite amazing how much more effective the kratom is - seems to me as good as if I had just taken three or four days of a break. I am finding wonderous results from almost anything I try, whether it's a red (usually) or even a green or yellow (I'm staying away from whites at night).

It's starting to make me think that perhaps folks who take kratom regularly don't need to completely stop in order to break the tolerance cycle - at the very least it's worth a try to just cut down to once a day (for a lot of folks that might be first thing in the morning. I guess it's whenever you feel you need it the most).

In any case, it will be a lot easier for me to cut out completely just the one dose for three or four days prior to my surgery.

[MetalMamaRocks]

This is exactly what I do when I want to cut back. I normally dose 2, sometimes 3 times a day. When I want to cut back I just take half a dose once a day before bed. I'll stay like this for about a week then add in the other one or two doses gradually.

It's a great reset.

[Kelleytoons]

Cool - I had never heard anyone talk about this before here.

So perhaps we have a way of resetting without completely going without.

[Arob1000]

Very cool, I had always thought it was a grams per day thing effecting tolerance. Glad things are working for you and you are getting some good evening relief.

[HappyD]

I think I read somewhere once that once a day is the ideal dosing because it allows enough time process it all out of your system. Granted that’s just one person repeating what some other person wrote on the internet

[onespeedstop]

I googled "what is the half life of kratom" and got answers from 7 1/2 hours to 24 hours. No one knows, but the creepy part is all the returns were from addiction centers and recovery places.

I looked a bit more and I did find - "The half-life of mitragynine has an estimated half-life of 3 hours", from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK585120/

Ultimately, I think since we're not buying a standardized product - it's leaves from half the world away, ya gotta just go with what works for ya. Try once a day, see if that does it for you, if so then great, if it only lasts a few hours and you need more later, then do that. Obviously keep an eye out for health issues that may arise from use, but that should go without saying eh.

[Kelleytoons]

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with dosing two or three times a day - more tends to be an issue - but I am trying to taper down since I want it to have full effect after my surgery (whenever the heck that will be). It was a very pleasant surprise to find it so effective without taking any sort of break - to me it was just as effective as those times I had gone three or four days without.

So it's THAT phenomena - the idea that a "break" could be as short as 24 hours and still be as effective as even a longer one - that made me go "hmmm". But that *might* have been a result of tapering down in the first place. Let me see if I can explain - let's say on Monday I dose three times, the last being at 9pm. Now I dose again the next night at 9pm. I don't *think* that dose is as effective a break. But if I dose then the NEXT day at 9pm perhaps that's enough of a break. Does that make sense? IOW, I'm not so sure when I first started noticing how wonderful it seemed. Was it right away, the very next time I took 24 hours off? Or did it take a day or two, at once per day, that finally reset everything?

When I get back to dosing more frequently I'll have to try and pay attention to see. And perhaps others of you can report your own experiences.

[Flysonsyd]

I think there is something to do with the amount of time spent between doses more so than the grams per day. For the homeostasis to occur your body needs to be without it for longer. with small constant doses your receptors are still busy processing things . I think it's the time between doses that allows the receptors to basically clean themselves off. . And that's very non scientific. I am not that smart just my 2 cents

[Kelleytoons]

All I know is the conventional wisdom is 3-4 days to reset your tolerance - and my experience (so far, but limited) is that 24 hours is plenty enough.

I will keep playing around with this when I have the time (which I should have after surgery, since it will be at least a month or two before I'll be back on the courts. And then, perhaps, I won't need as much kratom just because my knee will be "fixed". It remains to be seen).

Today (a very stressful one) would have been a great day to dose two or three times, as my knee is killing me right now (sitting in chairs at the hospital alone for four hours is enough to kill me, and then doing some shopping afterwards made me almost fall down). But I've held out and will have a night time dose in a couple more hours and I'm pretty confident it will be tremendous.

[Eu4oric906]

Yeah I feel you on this, my dosages often depends on the day. On work days i dont dose until after work and maybe have 2 doses. On weekends i splurge and dose up to 4 times. Some days I only have 1 dose and sometimes may go without for a day. I notice it on days coming off those 0-1 dose days. Resets the system a bit. Good luck with your knee surgery, heres hoping you’re jumping the net in victory again soon!

[Catcrazy]

Question... when you don't take kratom, do any of you notice any physical changes?

[Eu4oric906]

Question... when you don't take kratom, do any of you notice any physical changes?

I personally dont, but i keep my doses low and usually theres a day each week where i dont dose at all. So keeps the tolerance in check and theres no withdrawal issues.

[Kelleytoons]

Question... when you don't take kratom, do any of you notice any physical changes?

I don't notice anything at all, even when I go for a couple of weeks without after having dosed three times a day for many weeks. The only thing I notice (for sure) is that my sleep isn't as sound (mostly because the pain from my knee keeps me awake - if I get the dose and batch right of the kratom I take before bedtime, it basically knocks me out all night. Like last night - as I anticipated, after having had a really bad pain day I dosed around 9pm and it was so effective I slept from around 10pm to 7am, which for me is pretty amazing).

I still think - subject to the basic premise that we are all unique individuals - that kratom is NOT addictive, at least physically. Psychologically it may be a great deal. I've often thought that if I were working I'd be dosing every day for sure, just to get me through the (awful, last few years) workday. So I totally understand those who can't live without it. But to suggest it will cause "shakes" or other withdrawal symptoms is just delusion. Except - as noted - the mind can do almost anything (you can think yourself very, very sick if you try).

[Flysonsyd]

I got one have been using daily for 3 years or so. I take about 1.3 gram doses. I am under 10 grams a day. I get dysphoria and I get the kicks really bad . I cannot function normally without kratom even with my doses as low as they are

[Mike10387]

When I’ve stopped before I get the restless leg bad when trying to sleep. That’s the hardest part imo.

[Catcrazy]

Question... when you don't take kratom, do any of you notice any physical changes?

I don't notice anything at all, even when I go for a couple of weeks without after having dosed three times a day for many weeks. The only thing I notice (for sure) is that my sleep isn't as sound (mostly because the pain from my knee keeps me awake - if I get the dose and batch right of the kratom I take before bedtime, it basically knocks me out all night. Like last night - as I anticipated, after having had a really bad pain day I dosed around 9pm and it was so effective I slept from around 10pm to 7am, which for me is pretty amazing).

I still think - subject to the basic premise that we are all unique individuals - that kratom is NOT addictive, at least physically. Psychologically it may be a great deal. I've often thought that if I were working I'd be dosing every day for sure, just to get me through the (awful, last few years) workday. So I totally understand those who can't live without it. But to suggest it will cause "shakes" or other withdrawal symptoms is just delusion. Except - as noted - the mind can do almost anything (you can think yourself very, very sick if you try).

I too agree that not having it causes psychological withdrawals. I did notice some physical aspects, sleep for one, wasn't good at all, and more back pain than usual. Could all be stemmed from anxiety, which kratom does help, thank God. Again, like you mentioned, some kratom strains hit you better than others and it can last for hours! Definitely to each his own with response to kratom.

[Flysonsyd]

To call the dysphoria and restless legs people have when quiting kratom absolutely not a physical withdrawal is completely incorrect and a bit disrespectful to call it a delusion . Increased mu opioid stimulation via a chemical although it's a naturally occurring organic chemical compound such as mytrogina, will cause a down regulation of your body's natural production of reward chemicals and therefore it will cause a technical withdrawal once stopped . And for many people that withdrawal has physical side effects. That being said to argue against that is bias and clearly untrue and it makes people disrespect forums like these. And I will say I honestly feel tricked myself because this has not been as benign as an experience for me as caffeine which is what I thought I was going to be coming into it. I have a strong respect for kratom and by no means think it should be illegal. And I advocate kratom use to certain people . But as a friend I do let them know what they are in for objectively because I would consider myself a bad person to mislead someone in the same manner I was mislead . I have been using kratom for 3 plus years. This is not me disrespecting the plant . This is me being honest . If your experience has been non physical by all means speak your truth . Once again no disrespect intended but at the same time I'm not going to passively accept bullshit as universal truth. This is simple stuff. If I had been aware of the effects kratom would have on me prior to starting I would have considered my choice a bit more thoroughly .

[Kelleytoons]

I want to clarify things because there's a lot of misunderstanding going on here.

First of all - ANYTHING in this world can be harmful. Any substance the human body can consume or otherwise come in contact with can cause all sorts of problems for *some* people. I've had more than one pharmacist tell me the most dangerous, widespread, drug on this planet, the one that the FDA here in the U.S. would have banned in a heartbeat if it had ever come up for the process, is aspirin. It has caused more deaths, more issues than almost any other substance easily available. But clearly, the for the vast majority of people, no one is harmed by it, particularly when taken correctly.

The same is true of kratom (or, indeed, of any other non-controlled substance you can come up with). Perhaps it could, like aspirin, come with warning labels that tell people (like they do nowadays in almost every drug commercial on television) that side effects might include bleeding from the ears, nose and throat, headaches, backaches, pregnancy, liver issues, heart disease whatever it is that Big Pharma tries to say so you won't sue their ass off, but *most* people are aware that almost anything can be dangerous to *some* people and consume things with that understanding.

But kratom is NOT physically addicting in the way that most people understand addiction - again, if it was Big Pharma could have shut it down EASILY (and they could not, although they tried). There's no big money behind kratom so it could not have defended itself from those kinds of charges had there been ANY facts to support them. It can certainly "hook" people in the same way that drinking coffee can, and as with ANY SUBSTANCE IN THE WORLD there will be *some* individuals to whom stopping it will cause physical problems (which may or may not be brought about or exacerbated by their mental issues).

So I will continue to say "nonsense" when someone brings up the physical problems with "withdrawal". Unless someone can come up with FACTS that show otherwise. In this case, it really is all about the science.

[Badgame85]

So this is a super thread, thanks Kellytoons.

I DREAD reset. I get the normal restlessness, runny nose, irritability, inability to sleep etc. But these symptoms are more consistent with something on the side effects list of a prescription medication or something. There in line with the normal effects of stopping sugar or caffeine. I wish people wouldn't use the term withdraws for Kratom stoppage. Talk to an opioid addict or even an alcoholic... let them tell you what withdraws are. Kratom withdraw doesn't suck anymore than sugar withdraw, or caffeine withdraw.

But similar to what you've found out through experimentation I have also discovered! Within the past six months when I needed a reset I decided to abandon the cold turkey method (quick/easy/most uncomfortable) and drop my dosage by 75%-80% and simply retain my normal dosage schedule. For example... if I'm taking 5-7 grams a dose, then I just drop down to 1g-1.5g a dose. Do this for 2-3 days and all of a sudden 5 grams again gives me the wobbles. Also absolutely zero uncomfortable side effects from the reduction.

In summary, reducing my dosage frequency and/or quantity for 2-3 days has near the same effects for me as does stopping for 2-3 days. Totally worth the trade off.

[HappyD]

So this is a super thread, thanks Kellytoons.
Kratom withdraw doesn't suck anymore than sugar withdraw, or caffeine withdraw.

I appreciate this way of looking at it because it lends a degree of harmlessness just like we think of caffeine or sugar. however “addicting” those substances are they are not vilified but how different is it really.

I drink coffee every morning to lift my mood and keep me from being an asshole to everyone when I walk in the door at work. Similarly, I take kratom most days when I get home to lift my mood so I’m not an asshole to my family .

[Badgame85]

I drink coffee every morning to lift my mood and keep me from being an asshole to everyone when I walk in the door at work. Similarly, I take kratom most days when I get home to lift my mood so I’m not an asshole to my family .

100% this. Spot on!

[Kelleytoons]

If I were still working I absolutely would be taking it every morning, just to get through the (very awful last few years) workday. As long as I could do that I think I'd be fine once I got home.

I *may* take it twice today, though - I had a long morning getting my CT scan and I'm exhausted and perhaps will reward myself (far better to reward with kratom than food). But we'll see - I do love my nighttime dose.

[Flysonsyd]

There seems to be a connotation attached with the term withdrawal which is creating a more semantic based argument. As I agree the withdrawal symptoms are nothing like alcohol Xanax or heroin. However runny nose, restless legs and lethargy and headaches ect are technically physical withdrawal.

[Flysonsyd]

The mental addiction aspect is a very nuanced thing like Kelly is describing and has many facets and can be related to your personality type, mental illnesses, prior addictions ect. I'm agreeance for the most part. Some nuances I felt the need to make known. I for one find it more mentally addictive than marijuana or coffee or sugar . I have quit all of those things multiple times over. I do have a history of addiction and a strongly addictive personality type. However I would say kratom is harder physically to quit than marijuana or coffee. It is ball park however and it is not as hard psychically to quit as hard drugs . I do indeed feel terrible when I stop cold turkey.