Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

So I realize that some of us may be here as kratom helps alleviate pain. I've been having some issues with lower back pain lately, been to the chiropractor, working on strengthening and posture, but still having some problems. I'm thinking about trying to change my diet.

Anyone had success alleviating back pain, especially by diet? Or maybe alternative treatments like acupuncture..? I want to know if I can fix the root of the problem. Its probably minor degeneration.

Or if you want to talk about other issues thats fine too. For example, i used to have restless legs/RLS. I was on a few meds for it but successfully got off. I did some research and found that potassium deficiency can be the cause. I found the highest potassium foods (beet greens, avocados) and I eat those and the RLS went away (quite quickly actually.) Anyone who has had RLS knows just how it much it can drive you crazy.

Sneakers wrote:So I realize that some of us may be here as kratom helps alleviate pain. I've been having some issues with lower back pain lately, been to the chiropractor, working on strengthening and posture, but still having some problems. I'm thinking about trying to change my diet.

Anyone had success alleviating back pain, especially by diet? Or maybe alternative treatments like acupuncture..? I want to know if I can fix the root of the problem. Its probably minor degeneration.

Or if you want to talk about other issues thats fine too. For example, i used to have restless legs/RLS. I was on a few meds for it but successfully got off. I did some research and found that potassium deficiency can be the cause. I found the highest potassium foods (beet greens, avocados) and I eat those and the RLS went away (quite quickly actually.) Anyone who has had RLS knows just how it much it can drive you crazy.

Sneakers wrote:So I realize that some of us may be here as kratom helps alleviate pain. I've been having some issues with lower back pain lately, been to the chiropractor, working on strengthening and posture, but still having some problems. I'm thinking about trying to change my diet.

Anyone had success alleviating back pain, especially by diet? Or maybe alternative treatments like acupuncture..? I want to know if I can fix the root of the problem. Its probably minor degeneration.

Or if you want to talk about other issues thats fine too. For example, i used to have restless legs/RLS. I was on a few meds for it but successfully got off. I did some research and found that potassium deficiency can be the cause. I found the highest potassium foods (beet greens, avocados) and I eat those and the RLS went away (quite quickly actually.) Anyone who has had RLS knows just how it much it can drive you crazy.

Hi Sneakers!

This is where a lot of my pain is located also.
In terms of diet, I am preparing to focus on what are called "Anti-Inflammatory" Foods. There seems to be considerable science on the subject.
Of course, inflammation is one of the worst conditions for our bodies. We Need it in order to heal, but it also contributes to heart disease, arthritis (big time!!) and so many other problems.

As an example, Omega 6 oils are considered inflammatory as compared to Omega 3 oils, so this might be a place to start. I'm sorry I don't have any links for you - Googling is fun!! If you are going to consult the Internet for information about anti-inflammatory foods, do visit as many sites as you can and look for consistency. Some sites claim to be helpful but are often shilling some VERY SPECIAL OILS, etc. (careful); and some sites will list foods that contradict those mentioned elsewhere.
Eventually you are bound to encounter the subject of "Gluten Free" as the cure-all for everything, just as some particular "diets" have all of the answers; others will tell you that probiotics are our only hope (I have a story about THOSE, lol).

I am just starting my own journey here, so maybe we can compare notes in the future. Good Luck!

I think the anti-inflammatory diet is a good start. More good oils, especially the fatty acids, omega-3s. Id definitely be interested in hearing how it goes for you.

The other couple things Im looking into are posture and muscle imbalances. We often sit all day and it creates muscle imbalances. If I can figure out my posture issues I could probably make a living off of helping others...look how much people are hunched over their phones. Neck pain is going to be a big thing for the younger generations when they get older.

The other thing is herbal medicine. I've been doing some research and am going to try some herbs and tinctures. I guess kratom is an herbal medicine right? But Im looking at some which supposedly can heal tissues. Some that I've looked into so far are comfrey, solomon's seal and black cohosh. I actually tried black cohosh in a tea a while back and it had a pretty substantial muscle relaxant effect. Ive heard wild lettuce also has a substantial pain relieving effect, Ive heard it called "opium lettuce".

Anyways thanks for the response! Peace.

Sorry I missed this a week ago. Lower back pain is a daily part of my life.
I had an MRI done over a decade ago -it's double herniated & degenerated discs.

These things- we've got to approach them from different sides to transform agony into something constructive.
Good advice here already. re: the diet thing - absolutely. Low grade, chronic inflammation is eating us alive. Sure, kratom reduces that some, some or much of the time but it's not enough- still too temporary. It makes the rest more feasible; let's us see that, by doing more, we can turn some of this around.

Among the most important both short & long term: (you'll feel better sooner than you think)
Low impact walking- heals fast.

Increase blood Circulation. (starting with low impact walking) That is how to heal faster. Injured / scarred discs will remain vulnerable- leakage of the fluid inside the disc brings on a torrent of inflammation. Usually with a lot of pain. For that reason, "low impact" has now become part of your lifestyle.

How: You practice "pushing down" with the front of your feet and avoiding "bumping" down with the heel. It's awkward, I know. And it's essential. It works. But be much more careful on frozen pavement (that's another story)

Low impact walking will very likely reduce the time it takes to feel better- or make feeling better even possible. I did this reluctantly in while in agonizing pain that was unreal. Simple- I started feeling better a day or two later. Dramatically better.

Then- you can add the potions if you're into it like I am. Research more before making choices.
L-Arginine amino precursor to nitric oxide- relaxes blood vessels, increases circulation when you get moving but you'll need to keep it coming to keep that enhancement happening.
Herb- Tongkat Ali has this same benefit among others, possibly slower to work at first but cumulatively, the benefit appears to be more sustainable.

As far as diet goes, depends on what your body composition is like. Keto and fasting is great for losing weight, relearning good food habits, and decreasing inflammation because your insulin levels aren't on a constant roller coaster. i also think carnivore and Paleolithic ketogenic can be very helpful long term to solve a lot of issues in the body. In terms of potassium, if you use light salt, it's half potassium. If you're eating the standard American diet, we get a ton of sodium and that puts our potassium levels out of whack.

Check out:

r/keto
r/fasting
r/OMAD (means one meal a day)
r/ketochow (I include this because I've bought from them a few times and like them a lot. It's a meal replacement shake that's actually really good.)
r/carnivore
r/rawcarnivore
r/carnivoreAF
r/Paleolithic ketogenic

If you search back pain or inflammation in those you can see to what degree people have addressed those issues on a range of what they eat: 1. Ditching carbs, 2. Ditching plants, 3. Ditching anything non-animal

But there's some in the fasting and omad group who worry less about what they eat and more about minimizing insulin raises by eating once a day, or every other day, or losing weight and letting your body focus on healing itself by longer fasting. Dr. Jason Fung is mentioned a lot because he has a lot of books out like The Obesity Code. However pretty much everything he teaches is available on YouTube in various lectures so he seems a lot less commercial.

I've dealt with a lot of lower back issues in my life and I have to say a quick 10 minute yoga session in the morning has done absolute wonders for me. I found that a lot of my back problems stemmed from not stretching out the surrounding areas like my hips and quads, and that I was compensating for it by putting too much pressure on my back.

https://youtu.be/UEEsdXn8oG8

This is the one I use. It's only 10 minutes and it's for beginners.

Beermethatdisc wrote:I've dealt with a lot of lower back issues in my life and I have to say a quick 10 minute yoga session in the morning has done absolute wonders for me. I found that a lot of my back problems stemmed from not stretching out the surrounding areas like my hips and quads, and that I was compensating for it by putting too much pressure on my back.

https://youtu.be/UEEsdXn8oG8

This is the one I use. It's only 10 minutes and it's for beginners.

I was a real yoga enthusiast years before I had any back problems. I did enjoy it. Then I let it go.
My question: Is this particular yoga helpful for Muscular Problems or bone/joint problems (or both?) When I was practicing yoga before there were numerous asanas that were not recommended for problems with the spine.

Just checking in to make sure that I don't hurt myself, lol

Sneakers wrote:
The other thing is herbal medicine. I've been doing some research and am going to try some herbs and tinctures. I guess kratom is an herbal medicine right? But Im looking at some which supposedly can heal tissues. Some that I've looked into so far are comfrey, solomon's seal and black cohosh. I actually tried black cohosh in a tea a while back and it had a pretty substantial muscle relaxant effect. Ive heard wild lettuce also has a substantial pain relieving effect, Ive heard it called "opium lettuce".

Anyways thanks for the response! Peace.

Have you considered using herbals topically? I have lower back pain from facet joint arthritis and couldn't get by without a good topical pain rub. There are a lot of people on Etsy making good ones. Look for rubs including comfrey, calendula, St John's wort and arnica. Added menthol is good too.

Wow, lots of good tips on this post. I have advanced spinal stenosis and underwent surgery to my cervical spine in May. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't found Kratom.

I'm particularly interested in the low impact walking mentioned... definitely going to try that. I too have to be very careful with any yoga, however, really like the shared link for the 11 minute yoga (modified some poses).

I'm new to mm and posting in general, so mods lmk if any modification or tips about posting are recommended.

want to know if I can fix the root of the problem. Its probably minor degeneration.'-'----! DDD, degenerative disc disease,it's incurable as far as I know, unless your younger and things are available to fix it before it's gets worse,,age related, ,they are too far gone ,if you have it.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Hopefully we can keep this thread going as I think it will help a lot of people. There's a few things that I've taken from it so far:

Nutrition and circulation. My diet sucks just like most westerners. I think if I can improve diet and also get the nutrients to the spine, that may help.

Flexibility. When I go to the chiropractor, he often stretches my hips and quads and it helps tremendously. I'm a little hesitant to try some of that yoga stuff just yet, as doing the "child's pose" actually aggravated my back. Its something I want to consult a physio about though because its obvious that this is a problem and stretching is necessary.

Along with that is posture. I'm absolutely certain that posture is an issue. I spend a lot of time sitting and in the car, and that always aggravates it. Muscle imbalances like weak glutes and core is another major issue that many people have.

Fasting is quite interesting, Ive been reading about that today. Supposedly a lot of people have had success. Digestion takes up a lot of energy and when you fast your body can divert it to other areas, like repairing itself. Im going to attempt a 3 day fast starting today. I am a huge believer that the body can heal itself.

Also back to herbs, I haven't used salves but I should try it. I've heard great things about comfrey poultices, I wonder if that would help. Again, my main area of knowledge is herbalism. I ran out but was using mullein root tincture and it greatly helped. It seems to relax the muscles around the spine. Also black cohosh, preferably in tincture, is another great muscle relaxant. I also have solomon's seal tincture, it doesnt seem to have an affinity for the spine but it definitely does for other joints.

Also, a bit off topic, but I've had some minor lingering injuries in a shoulder and knees. I started taking serrapeptase supplement and the soreness has largely gone away. It supposedly destroys scar tissue I guess, i don't know but I've definitely noticed a difference, been using it for about 2 weeks.

I think serrapeptase took care of a couple of "floaters" in my eyes. Very minor ones, but still, that was nice. Best taken in the morning on an empty stomach, IIRC.

I'm actually having back pain more frequently at times when I don't use lukewarm water for my body bath. Try that and going to sauna if you can. And drink lots of water as much as possible a glass per hour to prevent the lower back from aching more. A little walking and try to lie on a flat floor for like 15-20 minutes. Those are effective but I actually added an aid to my backpain lately you can get more info here

There's actually a great product called "SOLIDBACK" on amazon. I bought it for my husband and I earlier last year and it really helped a lot with my sciatica and back pain.

There were some days that I could, honestly, barely walk. Yet, after using this product I felt great. It has been a lifesaver and it's really quite cheap when you take into account the amount of use you get out of it.

Thanks everyone, there is a lot of good information here.

I recently had muscle testing done and one thing came up: tarragon. You use it in essential oil and rub onto the affected areas. Its muscle relaxant and antispasmodic. This muscle testing I do with this herbalist is legit, I can't even begin to explain what's happened through the muscle testing. Im already getting a lot of relief, I'd say the popping has gone down maybe 75% and then I also bought a car cover which helps. We need more practitioners like that instead of the mainstream medical establishment where you go in and get a script. I truly believe that the body can heal itself. Stay away from the butchers and the pill dispensers.

Hey sneakers, I've had a bad back for over 25 years after sustaining a hairline fracture from a weightlifting accident in junior high. I deal with inflammation and a herniated disc in the L4/L5 regions. While it doesn't plague me as bad as it used to, there are some days that when it seems unbearable.

I have used physical therapy in the past. It was important for me to learn strengthening exercises for my back, and things like transverse abs to help maintain a solid core. Getting regular exercise really helps to alleviate the pain. I bought an inversion table about 10 years ago, I've used TENS units, and ice/heat too. If you sit down a lot at work, I would definitely recommend an Aylio seat cushion. It works by helping to tilt your pelvis, taking pressure off of your lower back. It's been a life saver during long days in front of a computer, and is only around 40 bucks on Amazon.

Sneakers wrote:Thanks everyone, there is a lot of good information here.

I recently had muscle testing done and one thing came up: tarragon. You use it in essential oil and rub onto the affected areas. Its muscle relaxant and antispasmodic.

I've never heard of tarragon for muscle spasms. Very interesting.

The absolute best thing I know for muscles spasms is topical cannabis. Not just CBD, full spectrum. St John's wort is also very good.

Do massages and go to a chiropractor. You can also smear with ointment with bee venom. It warms up and is also good.

Exercising ,in water. Walking in the pool, Depending on the problems with back, some exercises,even walking to much, can put stress on the spine, I was advised to avoid exercising or stretching unless doing it a pool, lake any body of water except for the ocean ,unless it’s out of the surf, beach area,

Oletimer wrote:Exercising ,in water. Walking in the pool, Depending on the problems with back, some exercises,even walking to much, can put stress on the spine, I was advised to avoid exercising or stretching unless doing it a pool, lake any body of water except for the ocean ,unless it’s out of the surf, beach area,

Oh! When I still had a YMCA membership I would go 3 or 4 times a week to do "pool runs." I have NEVER been a proponent of running or jogging, but in a pool, in water up to your shoulders, it's like running on air. I would actually sweat. Great cardio!

Not sure diet wise but I had a major back surgery back in 2007, two steel rods and 22 screws. I've found that (besides kratom) a good constant rotation of stretches helps out. Just whenever you feel stiff. Hope that kinda helps.

Vazra wrote:Not sure diet wise but I had a major back surgery back in 2015, two steel rods and 22 screws. I've found that (besides kratom) a good constant rotation of stretches helps out. Just whenever you feel stiff. Hope that kinda helps.

it was in 2007 vazra, I remember cause I was a senior in high school when you had that surgery.