Herbal RVA/Bad batch - LOCKED

[Kaidensmom]

I'm not really sure how to do this. I'm one of those weird type of people who is a leader in real life, but an introvert online, so I don't have much experience posting on social media.

That being said, I AM an avid reader/researcher/lurker on this site. I am all too aware that people often use this forum to aid in their decision making process, therefore I feel a bit of a responsibility to say something.

I recently purchased some yellow Hulu (batch #71218) from Herbal Rva. I only took 1/2 a gram, and I was feeling fine before that, but, a short time after taking it, I was hit hard with a headache, extreme nausea, and overwhelming fatigue. As if I had the flu. It was terrible. At first I thought that maybe it was just me. I'm relatively new to kratom, and I've repeatedly read comments stating that every strain affects every individual differently. But then I saw somebody else on another forum post about a similar reaction to the same batch, and a friend of mine- who is a long time kratom user- tried it and also became sick from a very low dose.

I have no idea what this means. I don't know if it was contaminated with something, or if that's just the way it is sometimes. I don't have enough experience with kratom to even make a slightly educated guess. But I do know that it was not a good situation, AT ALL, and I would feel terrible if I saw somebody else pay their hard earned money for an experience like the one that I had, just because I didn't have the nerve to speak up.

[whiffypants]

Kaidensmom, it's clear that what you said, you said sincerely -- and in that spirit a negative review is every bit as valuable as a positive one. Maybe even more so. I'm going to sticky this thread for a few days to make sure that folks see it.

THANK YOU for including the batch number. I have some RVA Yellow Hulu from an older batch (#013018) and it's fine, but that doesn't mean that your batch is going to be the same. Everyone who has RVA Yellow Hulu should check their batch number. (HH, don't you have some as well from an older batch?)

Kaidensmom, have you contacted Herbal RVA and told them about this? If you do and you feel comfortable with asking, I'd very much like to know who supplied it to RVA as well, because RVA probably won't be the only one carrying that bad batch if the problem was with the Indonesian supplier.

Let us know what happens, and thanks again.



EDITED TO ADD: I just checked the site, and the Yellow Hulu is no longer present (-any- batch) so that's a good start.

[BallzDeep9]

Yellow Hulu ( batch #71218 ) from Herbal Rva ... headache, extreme nausea, and overwhelming fatigue.

Nope, you're doing exactly the right thing, Kaidensmom - it's a serious issue. And "A risk factor" I think that's fair to say. Thank You for posting!

Online vendors like Herbal RVA ( and 200 others) are selling RAW, bulk, powdered leaf .. Literally leaves picked off trees, that grow near a muddy river, in a rainforest. The Kapuas River in Borneo - 2nd largest rainforest in the world next to the Amazon.

I HAVE also, had the same experience.. (not with RVA but from others). Flu symptoms. I've been trying to gently suggest - that people sanitize and disinfect their raw, bulk, powder. Easy! Make Tea - or simply pour very hot water, 160 degrees, over your powder. Stir around in a cup. Let that sit for 20 minutes. ALL harmful bacteria will be gone.. you can then drink it Hot, or I enjoy mine Cold - put that cup in freezer overnight. I even wrote a Tutorial: Green Alkaloid Smoothie

Kratom is really booming in popularity - Many people start at a retail store, head-shop or whatever. FDA last year tested, seized, and quarantined many retail stores where salmonella was found in the kratom. Google that. I guess people just ignored that, figured it was "fake news" from FDA? This is a big subject, we can't cover it here in a few sentences. Search reddit. Read the news. It IS a known risk factor for kratom. But again.. there's a simple solution. DO NOT toss & wash your kratom!!

I'll get a message over to Jonathan, the owner at Herbal RVA. He's a very busy guy. People LOVE his kratom, and his prices.. I'm a customer and I have ordered many times, from Herbal RVA. He does do lab testing. However.. let's understand he's dealing in very high volume!

[BallzDeep9]

OK I let him know .. Yellow Hulu is not listed for sale on Herbal Rva's website .. Strains come and go, not sure when that batch ran out ?? Middle of July so that's been long gone. I did check on FB and not a single complaint about Yellow Hulu.

[Maxxx]

pour very hot water, 160 degrees, over your powder. Stir around in a cup. Let that sit for 20 minutes.

Hey Ballz, do you lose any of the effects compared to T&W doing it this way? I ask because In my experience tea isn't nearly as potent, but since you're still taking all the plant matter this way, it should be the same as T&W, unless the heat lessens the potency?

[herbalhippie]

OK I let him know .. Yellow Hulu is not listed for sale on Herbal Rva's website .. Strains come and go, not sure when that batch ran out ?? Middle of July so that's been long gone. I did check on FB and not a single complaint about Yellow Hulu.

I scrolled both MeWe and his Facebook back to before this batch date and found nothing. I also contacted Jonathan and am waiting for a reply.

Kaidensmom, did you buy this kratom directly from HerbalRVA?

[tfribourg69]

pour very hot water, 160 degrees, over your powder. Stir around in a cup. Let that sit for 20 minutes.

Hey Ballz, do you lose any of the effects compared to T&W doing it this way? I ask because In my experience tea isn't nearly as potent, but since you're still taking all the plant matter this way, it should be the same as T&W, unless the heat lessens the potency?

Not at all. If anything it's more potent than raw powder because it's had some time to extract the good stuff. As long as you drink it all you're good

[livi2fly]

Hey OP, did you happen to consume any dairy product or coffee after you took that bad dose?

[herbalhippie]

We have looked into this. I checked RVA's MeWe and Facebook, scrolling back to before this batch date and found no reports of anybody getting sick from Yellow Hulu.

I contacted Jonathan and he said he only had one report from one female and he was pretty certain it was the OP from the way she described her symptoms. He had no other reports of illness from the 100s of people who bought this strain.

We're going to consider this investigated and closed. Thank you.

[Psilocyberdemon]

@kaidensmom
If you still have that nasty batch around..and you don’t want it anymore...I sent you a message.

[Kaidensmom]

My apologies for responding so late, I had no idea that anybody had even commented on this. I guess I assumed that I would get an email notification if anybody replied. Oops.

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it. I did contact him- I believe the following night, after I got off of work and spoke to the other girl with the same complaint- but did not receive any type of acknowledgement until yesterday morning, so I wasn't sure if he had taken me seriously and would test the product. Admittedly, I was a bit crabby about having spent hard earned money on a product that made me sick, so I didn't necessarily blame him for not responding in a considerate manner, but I was expecting some sort of acknowledgement at the very least. Once he did (finally) respond, it seemed like he didn't believe me, so I'm relieved to hear that he did remove the product and is hopefully testing it.

I do not have a Facebook, or a me we. As I said (and you can probably tell) I'm not very good with social media. I ran across the other girl's post on "I love kratom", and she said that she also posted on Reddit.

No, I didn't drink milk afterwards. Why? Is it a bad thing to drink milk after a dose of kratom?

I do not have the yellow Hulu anymore, sorry. I was advised to dump it immediately after my friend got sick from it.

Sorry that this is all squashed together in one response, I really have no idea how to do any of this yet.

Thanks, again

[whiffypants]

...I'm relieved to hear that he did remove the product and is hopefully testing it.

Actually, he sold out of it. It was a July batch and it was already off the site before you reported a problem, which is why it was gone when Ballzy and I went to look for it. But he is definitely testing it now, according to an email one of our members got from him in regard to this situation.

But just for your own edification... in future, if you ever get a bad batch of -anything-, don't throw it out. Jonathan can test that batch because he still has a little bit on hand, presumably from his own stash, but what if he had had nothing left of that batch on site to test? By throwing it out you'd have only ensured there was nothing to test and no physical proof of what you were saying. Whether it's kratom or cheese or a prescription drug, if you suspect that something has made you sick KEEP IT (or at least some of it) until you're absolutely certain about how you want to approach the situation. Never throw it out until the situation is closed, whatever that means to you in that specific situation. Just so you know.

I hope you never have cause to be thankful for that wisdom, but it's something I learned the hard way a long time ago: if you throw it out and then want to complain or report, and the person or organization you're dealing with is dishonest, it never happened. Jonathan is a stand-up guy and that was never an issue here, but it was an older batch from July: if he hadn't had any of his own to test you'd have shot yourself in the foot by throwing it out. Just so you know.

[livi2fly]

No, I didn't drink milk afterwards. Why? Is it a bad thing to drink milk after a dose of kratom?

I had a bad batch one time and I was thinking it might have been a combo of what I drank afterwards. But what you described is exactly how I felt. The leaf was not from Herbal RVA

[WotAnAtti2d]

Hey all,

I was reading this and I thought I'd drop my tutorials, if you'd like to check them out. Many people have used them with success and some have not been successful with them. I offer them as a template of sorts, you can edit it as you go along.

Tea with crushed leaf: https://imgur.com/a/oMN6g

Tea with powder: https://imgur.com/a/1AXup

Downloadable PowerPoint presentations, with viewer, if needed: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AjfXaUrw4G_waaBNFA5LEyyaiwY

Here's some medical trivia for you about tea, also:

Did you know that by boiling water that kratom has been added to, it kills a multitude of germs? After that, a sustained heat will ensure that happens.

e Coli dies at 160° F
Salmonella dies at 167° F at a sustained heat of 10 minutes
Other non-specialized bacteria die at 140° F
Influenza is deactivated anywhere from 165° F to 212° F (boiling)

Alkaloids withstand temperatures well past boiling.

[sknabc]

I've been ordering from RVA for a long time now. Maybe 3 years. In that time I've had two bad batches. Just got me sick as shit taking it. I suspect it was withdrawal but IDK. Everytime I've stopped kratom I've definitely felt it, but it didn't feel like these batches did. I would have to half my dose to not get sick. John replaced some of it and I think out of 40-odd kilos 2 bad ones is not too much of an issue for me, but it might be for you idk.

[BallzDeep9]

I suspect it was withdrawal but IDK. Everytime I've stopped kratom I've definitely felt it, but it didn't feel like these batches did.

Withdrawal sickness, and "bad batch" sickness, are totally different - we're talkin' bad, as IN bacteria bad - symptoms like food poisoning, nausea, fever, sweating, headache, feelin' like U just caught the Flu ... However bad like Bunk kratom or zero potency, would be withdrawals which are tired, hung over, and RLS etc

Pretty amazing, when U think about how much kratom RVA has sold... over the past year. How many real cases reported, of shit like e-coli, staph, salmonella, etc ?? Like - very very few. He's moving a HUGE amount of powder. Literally Tons & I don't know his avg # users per strain but it's gotta be way up there.

So, History & safety of raw imported kratom , speaks for itself - When imported from known, reliable, established suppliers. We do know ALL of Jon's sources and they have a fantastic record of safety... why I can't understand these fools on FB, yelling about dirty product and lab testing. Where IS the problem?

e Coli dies at 160° F
Salmonella dies at 167° F at a sustained heat of 10 minutes
Other non-specialized bacteria die at 140° F

Good Info. Wot that's a great summary, right there of your Tea Tutorial links. We really should have a Tea page, it deserves its' own page with Title: How To prepare Kratom Tea. - something like that. So people can find it, since URL does not have a querystring ( topic.php?f=17&t=931 ) with a Title, the page could be linked and posted on Facebook, etc

[bovineblitz]

I was feeling ill on and off for a couple weeks. Really bad stomach cramps, constant headaches, massive intestinal discomfort, extreme fatigue... I nearly went to a walk in clinic at one point, thought I had the flu and was worried about dehydration. I realized it had to do with kratom, so started paying more attention and being sure to use boiling water in case the issue was bacterial.

Turns out it was RVA's Royal Bentuangie. Their Red Zareena also gave me a similar feeling though not quite as bad. I totally stopped taking them and felt fine. My partner started to complain about queasiness and headaches as well, she had a similar response to the strains, just not quite as extreme as me.

I contacted them to ask if they'd had any complains and they said no. Now I've got all this kratom that I won't take and that I wouldn't want anyone else to take, so it's just a loss. I had bought a mixed kilo too, half of which was the royal.

Needless to say, I'm done with their products, something is seriously wrong with them. If it was just one I'd write it off, but two strains and symptoms that severe has scared me off. Reading this thread as well has confirmed that decision.

[acejestyr15]

I was feeling ill on and off for a couple weeks. Really bad stomach cramps, constant headaches, massive intestinal discomfort, extreme fatigue... I nearly went to a walk in clinic at one point, thought I had the flu and was worried about dehydration. I realized it had to do with kratom, so started paying more attention and being sure to use boiling water in case the issue was bacterial.

Turns out it was RVA's Royal Bentuangie. Their Red Zareena also gave me a similar feeling though not quite as bad. I totally stopped taking them and felt fine. My partner started to complain about queasiness and headaches as well, she had a similar response to the strains, just not quite as extreme as me.

I contacted them to ask if they'd had any complains and they said no. Now I've got all this kratom that I won't take and that I wouldn't want anyone else to take, so it's just a loss. I had bought a mixed kilo too, half of which was the royal.

Needless to say, I'm done with their products, something is seriously wrong with them. If it was just one I'd write it off, but two strains and symptoms that severe has scared me off. Reading this thread as well has confirmed that decision.

What batch numbers are your royal and red zarena???? Cuz jfish at rva has been my go to vendor for about 9 months now and have never had any issues with any of their probably 20 strains that I continue to purchase. I used all sorts of different strains one of my main favorites includes the royal that I just got a half kg of a week or two ago, and have had a 250g bag of the red zarena for wuote sometime as well just cuz not a stand out favorite of mine.

[whiffypants]

I was feeling ill on and off for a couple weeks. Really bad stomach cramps, constant headaches, massive intestinal discomfort, extreme fatigue... I nearly went to a walk in clinic at one point, thought I had the flu and was worried about dehydration. I realized it had to do with kratom, so started paying more attention and being sure to use boiling water in case the issue was bacterial.

Turns out it was RVA's Royal Bentuangie. Their Red Zareena also gave me a similar feeling though not quite as bad. I totally stopped taking them and felt fine. My partner started to complain about queasiness and headaches as well, she had a similar response to the strains, just not quite as extreme as me.

I contacted them to ask if they'd had any complains and they said no. Now I've got all this kratom that I won't take and that I wouldn't want anyone else to take, so it's just a loss. I had bought a mixed kilo too, half of which was the royal.

Needless to say, I'm done with their products, something is seriously wrong with them. If it was just one I'd write it off, but two strains and symptoms that severe has scared me off. Reading this thread as well has confirmed that decision.

Welcome to the board, BovineBlitz. I'm not getting a couple of the jumps you made here: you went from boiling water to concluding that it was those two strains of kratom -- I'd really appreciate more info on what happened between! -- and then you went from there to saying this thread has confirmed your decision.

That's cool, I respect whatever anyone decides for themselves, but I'm honestly not following the logic here. RVA moves as much or more leaf as any other US bulk vendor -- we're talking tons here -- but I never hear anything bad about their leaf, and the batch that started this thread was already so old it wasn't even for sale anymore by the time OP posted. If it had truly been a bad batch, -hundreds- of people would have been sick: that's how much leaf RVA moves.

I've never tried the Zareena but love the RVA Royal Bent, so if you still have it and you've taken reasonable care in storing it, just trade it off, it's a popular strain. If you are honest about it giving you symptoms when you trade it it's not going to be a problem, as there are strains that are just -wrong- for a specific person. I've got a couple myself; I think most people do. Just be honest when you put it up for swap that it made you sick.

The other thing I would tell you is that just in general you need to be switching up your kratom more regularly, across a wider selection of vendors and colors and strains anyway, just to keep your tolerance low. If you were sick daily because you were taking the same two strains daily, you were only making matters worse (as I'm sure you now know). If you were changing it up daily, it would be far easier to spot a bad-for-you strain, and indeed, that it was even kratom causing it.

Again, I'm not disputing you, just sincerely questioning the jumps you made in your narrative. Not all strains work for everyone! Glad you're feeling better these days, and again, welcome to the board.

[herbalhippie]

If people were getting sick from RVA kratom, two strains at that, it would be all over the internet in a day or two. I haven't heard anything from any corner about bad RVA kratom until this post.

I've probably got more RVA kratom in my collection than any other vendor. Royal Bent is one of my favorites.

[Rom]

Hello, longtime listener, first time caller here. I joined to say that I as well have had issues with my most recent order from Herbal RVA. BUT... I don’t think it’s the actual product that is making people sick. I think it’s probably the onset of withdrawal symptoms from the products being extremely poor quality or bunk altogether. I need to say that I have been ordering 2-3 kilos monthly from rva for well over a year and have never had a problem up until my most recent order. I spoke with Jonathan and he told me as well that no one else had complained. A quick look around the webz will easily show this to not be the case. I think Jonathan got a bunk shipment that doesn’t have any “effects” whatsoever. What I don’t think is that any of his products are making people sick. This is a VERY harsh accusation, and unless someone has some lab proof, they shouldn’t be making it. Jonathan has served many many people very well for a very long time (myself included) and I don’t think it’s fair for people to be basically trying to ruin his reputation and business over one bad batch. I received four worthless kilos and have every right to be mad as heck, yet I will still support him and give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know the batch he was sending was no good. He is also going through some major shipping issues right now, so I’m sure finding out the orders he sent out were bunk is overwhelming. Give him a chance to make things right and communicate with him in a grown up way and I have a feeling he will do the right thing. He seems like a great guy every time I’ve spoken to him on the phone. Bottom line, it’s not necessary to besmirch the man or his business over a clearly isolated incident. Sorry, rant over.

[labdog03]

I do not believe Jonathan would ever send out anything he KNEW was bad...that being said, you care to mention what STRAIN(S) you received that had minimal effects? I have gotten plenty of below average strains from RVA and other good reputation Vendors as well...I just chalk it up to the nature of the beast...they can't all be FIRE...Would be interested to know though...PM me if you prefer.

[whiffypants]

Sorry, not feeling it here. If there were kilos of "bunk" leaf going out we'd be having a LOT more complaints than we do.

And I know this how? One word: GAIA.

When Gaia started putting out weak/impotent leaf last year, the reports were both plentiful and widespread. Word got around, people who never complained otherwise but were active on Reddit and other online kratom communities posted their experiences. In detail, with dates, strain names, batch numbers, and specific effects.

Nobody wanted to bash Gaia, Dan was well liked by a lot of people, but it was clear that more and more leaf was coming out that just wasn't up to par at all. And RVA does more business than Gaia does.

This thread is no longer passing the mod smell test. In this thread there are multiple new accounts with the first post made just to bash RVA, along with questionable to no specific detail included in the posts.

When Gaia started putting out bad leaf last year the first to complain were the regulars, and people speaking up who absolutely did not want to come to the conclusion they came to about what they were now getting out of Gaia.

By stark contrast, these new posts just seem... off, for lack of a more explicit word. Kaidensmom did it right, the rest just seemed to see an opportunity to pile on.

And when it comes to fact-lite vendor bashing on this board, we're not having it.

Locking the thread now. If you have a problem with this, PM me or one of the other mods.

If you want to start your own review in another thread, feel free, but be sure to provide AT LEAST strain names -- batch numbers are even better -- and as much supporting detail as you can remember -- including when you contacted the vendor and what the outcome of that contact was -- because if you don't, at this point I just don't believe you.

Put it this way. When something makes ME physically ill -- or I've just spent close to three hundred dollars on something that was not at all what I expected to receive -- I damn sure remember the details. I expect the same minimum courtesy out of others here before they speak up to criticize -any- kratom vendor that is otherwise highly regarded.