Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

what are yall ordering?
stoked but overwhelmed with my options and lack of feedback on a lot.
30 yr wild white for sure. but looking for what are must haves in a split kilo.
wild red Bali had good reviews and the super red sunda.
..just a ramble.. what are yall drolling over?

A must get strain is the new Wild Harvest Gold. I promise you wont be disapointed.
Its a mid slow spec with great sense of well being. A nice warm strain. Good amount of focus. Hands down best Gold i have ever tried. And ive tried quiet a bit.

I absolutely love the 30 Year Wild TFH (RED), so I got a bunch of that, and from what I hear the supply is thinning out, so if you want a smooth, calming leaf (with long legs) for persistent pain, get some before it's all gone

Super red sunda is incredible,
30 year wild red is another favorite of mine,
24k Bali gets good reviews, I need to revisit.
Classic GMD is great, as is their normal green MD.
SG Kali is nice,
Honestly, I have enjoyed almost everything I have tried from TFH. I would feel comfortable ordering blind from this company.

Anyone try the 30 year wild red hangat?

The Jade Bali and wild harvest gold are two great new strains that I just got. Also the 30 yr wild yellow TFH is absolutely amazing, mood boost galore.

iTzNERV wrote:Anyone try the 30 year wild red hangat?

The wild hangat is one of my favorite reds. Really uplifting, feel-good strain.

prolly getting two kilos.
..
30yr WW tfh
30yr ww yellow
wild harvest gold
super red sunda
...
jade bali
wild red Bali
..
prolly go chocolate bent and maybe a solid green?. rambling so I know what I want

Are they having a doublem sale again soon?

Kellis7744 wrote:Are they having a doublem sale again soon?

Preorder just opened on Sunday!!! Get your order together..... I believe it's open til the 14th!!!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4639#p43651

I'm debating whether I actually what three 30 year wilds red yellow and white.
I'm wondering what yalls thoughts are on buying the same "strain" but different varieties .. would I only be choosing one actual strain between the three? like would I build a tolerance easier since its possibly the same batch of leaf just dried different
I dont know if this makes sense .
I just know I want a red and I know for a fact the whit and yellow are superb.
.any input or understanding appreciated

Closedeyesearch wrote:I'm debating whether I actually what three 30 year wilds red yellow and white.
I'm wondering what yalls thoughts are on buying the same "strain" but different varieties .. would I only be choosing one actual strain between the three? like would I build a tolerance easier since its possibly the same batch of leaf just dried different
I dont know if this makes sense .
I just know I want a red and I know for a fact the whit and yellow are superb.
.any input or understanding appreciated

Yeah if you add heavy reds, good whites and excellent green combined evenly in grams, most likely your tolerance will spike but nothing to worry if you take breaks every week at least 1 or 2 days. me personally i would do that if some shit came down and i feel down, i would combine all 3 fav colors and melt away. But i try to do that once a week or maybe twice sometimes, its best if you rotate like green for work, white for waking up and you got a bunch of tasks and reds for binging and movie watching. But like always some colors are not always accurate or truly labeled by different vendors so always decide on your own if what you, the name needs to be changed to green or white or red. You would know by how you feel after a dose. So if you dont blend and a long shot you will enjoy rotation much more but there is nothing wrong with blending, after all you can be using blends all your life if thats what you prefer, i just believe a tolerance will spike slightly on all of them. I think thats why most people get kratom from random sources to keep different alkaloid profile or perhaps every one dry it different and it produces different effects. Just some thoughts on it

Closedeyesearch wrote:I'm debating whether I actually what three 30 year wilds red yellow and white.
I'm wondering what yalls thoughts are on buying the same "strain" but different varieties .. would I only be choosing one actual strain between the three? like would I build a tolerance easier since its possibly the same batch of leaf just dried different
I dont know if this makes sense .
I just know I want a red and I know for a fact the whit and yellow are superb.
.any input or understanding appreciated

Hey Closedeyesearch, that's a great question! I can see where somebody might make that logic jump, early in our kratom sourcing journey I targeted sources based on that assumtion. However, I've come to learn that its a bit of a false premise. What you are looking for to avoid is same-strain-syndrome, which is possible by keeping the brain guessing at the balance of alkaloids in each servineg. However, your brain knows none nor does it care what tree a leaf came from... only what the balance of alkaloids is. Coincidently, I actually wrote a post pertaining to this very point in the latest update of the "Behind the Scenes of the Kratom Industry post". Click the link below and search for "The Newest Batch Of Your "Favorite Strain".

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2931

Our 30 Year batches come from the same plot of land, but there is an unbelievable amount of diversity among the trees that sit on the land. Just the difference in age of the trees alone will contribute to a completely different alkaloid composition, and age isn't even the biggest factor. I think anyone who has tried our 30 Year batches will tell you that the 30 Year Wild TFH is miles away from being anything like the 30 Year Wild White TFH, 30 Year Wild Super Green, etc,.... and much of the difference can be attributed to factors that come before altering things through the drying process! Our biggest leaps in advancing the quality of kratom have actually come from pre-harvest techniques, which is all about manipulating a tree's production of secondary metabolites. By understanding what factors influence the production of these metabolites, we can essentially alter the alkaloid profile of the final product through various pre-harvest techniques. Add to that the many techniques that can be applied to the curing process and bam... your brain is thinking the 30 Year Wild Yellow TFH and 30 Year Wild Slow Green come from different planets

Antidotes should never be taken as evidence, but I personally have struggled for years and years with not being able to get many effects from any leaf. Within the past year, I have really buckled down on the "less is more" theory and have had much success. Outside of an occasional dip in some retro batches and occasional vendor here and there - I primarily only use our own product. This year has been my best year of kratom in a looooong time

With that - there are always exceptions. I can think of two things you should just be aware of:

1. A common practice with many suppliers is that many of their "strains" are not much more than a mixture of indoor and outdoor dried leaves.... they are essentially blends. "Strain A" might be 20% red and 80% green, while "Strain B" might be 80% red and 20% green". I honestly can't tell you how you can make sure to avoid this - suppliers are certainly not transparent with how that goes down. They will always tell you that their "Bali" actually comes from the wild jungles of Bali. If you call them out on it - they might admit that its really just from different farmers, but that is because they know you can't prove otherwise. For this reason, we personally never carry many items from the same supplier at the same time if we dont have "boots on the ground" assistance. We want a good span of time between our orders to ensure we are not just receiving a blend of the same harvest. Our batches with the "MUK" batch code are an example of this.... you will never see more than one or two at any one time on our menu. They make some incredible kratom, but I can't trust that if I am buying multiple batches at once that it's not just a mixture of the same leaf dried two different ways. EVEN WITH THAT SAID - a mixture of the same leaf is still a different balance of alkaloids - so there is that.

If anyone is concerned with this and wants to avoid it- our 30 Year Wild Slow Green and 30 Year Wild Maeng Da share components of the same harvest. The 30 Year Slow Green was a coarse grind batch that we intentionally left the S&V in for a very specific reason (there are some specific weather-related scenarios were leaving it in can improve the batch). The 30 Year wild Maeng Da was extremely energetic and it needed to be balanced out in order for it to be appealing to most people. With that, we did a 50/50 mix of the 30 Year Slow Green and the original batch of the 30 Year Maeng Da to make what is now the 30 Year Maeng Da (which I think worked our beautifully... it's one I personally gravitate towards when looking for a mid-spec leaf). I personally use both regularly in my rotation and haven't noticed any problems, but everyone should decide if that appeals to them on not on their own.

2. The other scenario you might want to consider is if a producer was intentionally trying to replicate a previous batch. Even with that intention, it's extremely difficult to pull off because many of the variables at play are not under you control. There is no "easy button" when it comes to duplicating a batch. The only example of that we have right now is our latest batch of 30 Year Wild White TFH (IR12)- we intentionally did everything we could to replicate the previous batch (IR14). The IR14 was an experiment batch that we didnt make that much of, and the feedback was overwhelmingly positive. I wish I still had some IR14 to compare myself, but customers have reported so far that the IR12 is pretty spot on to the IR14. (I always tell myself that I need to reserve some for my personal stash, but I never do... I've actually bought back my own leaf from a customer before ) If there were ever a situation where I would worry about SSS with a consecutive batch, this is a scenario I could think of, but honestly, I dont think that there is much of that going on with any other suppliers.

Just as I was about to move on I thought of one more scenario - it may somewhat apply to bent batches.... primarily from suppliers who really know how to make a good bent (which does not apply to many). I think a good bent batch is the most difficult to create and if I had to guess, most batches of a good bent were made out of luck than skill. However, there are some really bent experts and my guess would be they try there best to replicate the post-harvest process to a "T". However, the time between different batches alone is enough to produce some wildly different effects - so there is that too. Great pure-bents are hard to come by - there is a reason we only have one currently on our menu.

My advice - try less is more and keep it at a low serving size if you are worried about tolerance. Get a good assortment of batches and rotate them. Dont be afraid to order every consecutive batch of Lucky's green Hulu (I really liked the batch of green Hulu I bought from them towards the end of last year), because unless they are selling the same batch under a different batch code - its a completely different leaf.


*I did it again... I love to talk about all things kratom. I intended to give a quick point and wrote a book instead. This is why I am not allowed to be alone on the computer when i have work to do

Hahaha thanks for all the info Gumby! I still have over 300 g of the old 30 year white(one of my top 3 strains ever). And yes the new batch came verrrrryyyy damn close. If not even better in ways. Idk I have to play around with testing once I get more of the new batch. But definitely save that “recipe”!

thanks Gumby.
you helped draw my thought out into actually thoughts.
thanks for taking the time to type that out.
u did answer my concerns. still contemplating my decision. been waiting for a chance a TFH and now I'm overwhelmed lol

Whoa! That was a fabulous "dissertation" Gumby

Your most recent post - literally - covered most of the questions that were keeping me awake last night, no kidding!

If you ever consider serious publishing, I am at your service for proofing and editing, lol

Jade Bali is one of my new favorites from TFH. A slow green with amazing pain relief with some mild sedation.

I went with the Red Elephant Hulu, Wild Crafted Heavy Red, 30 Year Wild TFH, and 30 Year Wild Yellow TFH. Out of the four strains, I have only sampled the 30 Year Wild Yellow TFH during testing. This strain provides a long lasting mood lift for me with a little energy boost. I don't like fast strains so this one is perfect. The three red strains I chose based on looking at some past reviews. Unfortunately, not all of TFH's strains have been reviewed so I wanted to choose something that I knew what effects to expect.

Anybody had the white horn, white jk or wild crafted white?

Sneakers wrote:Anybody had the white horn, white jk or wild crafted white?

I've had the wild crafted white and it's superb, everything I look for in a white. Right now, it's my favorite TFH white. It's strongly energetic but smooth at the same time; I didn't experience any of the tension or jittery feelings that some fast whites trigger. There is a light, airy feel to it that I really like. Whites like this always seem to brighten my day. It's more than mood enhancement, although it has that in spades. It's a visual effect where everything just seems brighter.

Energy: 10/10
Mood Enhancement: 10/10
Duration: 8/10
Potency: 10/10
Pain Relief: I can't evaluate this characteristic very well because my pain comes and goes and it's not always clear why. I can say that I've been in little or no pain every time I've taken it.

the 30yr wild white I had changed my kratom experience with one dose.
so grateful to have sampled it

I am stocked on reds, so i went with:

wild harvest yellow maeng da muk-2
30 year wild yellow tfh IR35
30 year wild super green IR3
30 year wild white A14IR

I tested the Jade Bali that many have raved about, but got very little from it----body chemistry differences.

neuropathy1 wrote:
I tested the Jade Bali that many have raved about, but got very little from it----body chemistry differences.

I thought about body chemistry and i noticed some kratom i come back that i sued to hate is my new love for it. is it possible that body chemistry changes in 1 or 3 years? what if its seasonal changes? Just never seen anyone talk about if its possible or not, so it makes sense to keep kratom that didn't work and try it later times.

brave777 wrote:

neuropathy1 wrote:
I tested the Jade Bali that many have raved about, but got very little from it----body chemistry differences.

I thought about body chemistry and i noticed some kratom i come back that i sued to hate is my new love for it. is it possible that body chemistry changes in 1 or 3 years? what if its seasonal changes? Just never seen anyone talk about if its possible or not, so it makes sense to keep kratom that didn't work and try it later times.

Yes, body chemistry can change... even from morning to night! We are doing an incredible amount of research in this area and I have to admit - it's very challenging. I really feel like unlocking how personal preference plays into perceived quality is how we can take vending to the next level, and the data is showing that we can some-what be successful in doing this. On average, once we have a solid base of surveys from an individual, we can do a better job selecting batches for them then they can. It is by no means a perfect science (and I honestly dont know that it ever will be), but it seems to be beneficial.

Something that blows my mind, when asking folks to "re-rate" a batch, it's not uncommon to see that scores actually improve after having used it a few times (which is opposite from what you would expect). To add to the mystery, we see this more frequently with new customers - and I have no idea why it is. If anyone has any theories, please let me know.

One thing that most people dont realize is there is EXTREMELY RARE to have a batch that works well on everyone. Typically, even our highest scored batches will have anywhere from 10-20% of people who say they dont care for it. I know 10-20% sounds like a lot but when you compare that to results from some of our control samples, we will see anywhere from 55-70% not liking them! There are few exceptions - right now our Wild Crafted Heavy red is the only batch of 2020 so far where every single person has scored it a 7 or higher (and there are only a few 7's). EVERY SINGLE PERSON. What is interesting is that the vast majority of people are not ordering it .

Even with a batch like the Wild Crafted Heavy Red, I dont like to give recommendations based on what is our "best batches"... we just dont typically have them. It's important to note that nothing makes the menu unless it scores high in consumer testing. What this means is that all of our batches score within a similarly narrow range.... there really are not any "standouts". At that point, its really about being able to dial in on what matches your personal chemistry (which is why we are so aggressive with requesting that customers complete the private surveys).

I think a recent thread on the MM forum demonstrates this point well. As you can see in the link below, nearly everybody has a different "favorite" from us.

"What's Your Favorite TFH Strain"
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4162

What I would advise is for folks not to be afraid and take try something different. People are missing out on some real gems because nobody has talked about them yet! Some of the batches that are incredibly popular with our members are not being ordered at all during the event just because nobody here is talking about them. They are just sitting on the shelf in their packages collecting "green dust"

gumbyke1 wrote:

brave777 wrote:

neuropathy1 wrote:
I tested the Jade Bali that many have raved about, but got very little from it----body chemistry differences.

I thought about body chemistry and i noticed some kratom i come back that i sued to hate is my new love for it. is it possible that body chemistry changes in 1 or 3 years? what if its seasonal changes? Just never seen anyone talk about if its possible or not, so it makes sense to keep kratom that didn't work and try it later times.

Yes, body chemistry can change overnight! We are doing an incredible amount of research in this area and I have to admit - it's very challenging. I really feel like unlocking how personal preference plays into perceived quality is how we can take vending to the next level, and the data is showing that we can some-what make that happen. On average, once we have a solid base of surveys from an individual, we can do a better job selecting batches for them then they can. It is by no means a perfect science (and I honestly dont know that it ever will be), but it seems to be beneficial.

One thing that most people dont realize is there is EXTREMELY RARE to have a batch that works well on everyone. Typically, even our highest scored batches will have anywhere from 10-20% of people who say they dont care for it. I know 10-20% sounds like a lot but when you compare that to results from some of our control samples, we will see anywhere from 55-70% not liking them!

There are few exceptions - right now our Wild Crafted Heavy red is the only batch of 2020 where every single person has scored it a 7 or higher. What is interesting is that the vast majority of people are not ordering it . Remember our entire menu is tested for quality - dont be afraid to take a stab at something. People are missing out on some real gems because nobody has talked about them yet!

I have noticed over my time here that it seems that heavy reds are the least popular of any type of strain in general

acejestyr15 wrote:

gumbyke1 wrote:

brave777 wrote:
One thing that most people dont realize is there is EXTREMELY RARE to have a batch that works well on everyone. Typically, even our highest scored batches will have anywhere from 10-20% of people who say they dont care for it. I know 10-20% sounds like a lot but when you compare that to results from some of our control samples, we will see anywhere from 55-70% not liking them!

There are few exceptions - right now our Wild Crafted Heavy red is the only batch of 2020 where every single person has scored it a 7 or higher. What is interesting is that the vast majority of people are not ordering it . Remember our entire menu is tested for quality - dont be afraid to take a stab at something. People are missing out on some real gems because nobody has talked about them yet!

I have noticed over my time here that it seems that heavy reds are the least popular of any type of strain in general

Your comment makes me think of another point of how body chemistry is different. Looking at the Heavy Red - the majority find it low on the spectrum while there are some folks who view it as energetic! Ill share a chunk of survey data ...

Note the first score you see below is the "overall quality". The second number represents its effects on a scale of 1-10 (1=slow 10=fast)

Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 7
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 8
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 4
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 8
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 4
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 5

Billy MD wrote:I went with the Red Elephant Hulu, Wild Crafted Heavy Red, 30 Year Wild TFH, and 30 Year Wild Yellow TFH. Out of the four strains, I have only sampled the 30 Year Wild Yellow TFH during testing. This strain provides a long lasting mood lift for me with a little energy boost. I don't like fast strains so this one is perfect. The three red strains I chose based on looking at some past reviews. Unfortunately, not all of TFH's strains have been reviewed so I wanted to choose something that I knew what effects to expect.

All solid, excellent choices, imo

gumbyke1 wrote: .

Note the first score you see below is the "overall quality". The second number represents its effects on a scale of 1-10 (1=slow 10=fast)

Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 7
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 8
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 4
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 8
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 7 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 3
Wild crafted heavy Red 9 4
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 2
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 1
Wild crafted heavy Red 8 5
Wild crafted heavy Red 10 5

I have a second number splanation to why it is very high and some very low. I think i mentioned this else where and for all my years, if i take a low dose or i am a low doser in general, it will always be above 7 and very energetic, slight bigger dose and your in the 5 and nice full dose you in 1 or 2. Example, if you not a big doser in general you will feel energetic property of it, so if you dose 1 gram it will be around 8 or 9 on energetic side and wont be able to fall asleep unless you very tired. if you dose 3-4 grams it wil or should be around 5, right in the middle and if you dose 5-8 grams, it will be heavy for you and score will be slow around 1-3 range. You said you wanted theory, this my theory of years trying low and high dose from same good red batches. Even KTC 1 gram will give you energetic feel, but if you are a daily heavy doser most likely you wont ever make it to energetic side unless you take a week off and jump on 1 gram or something. thats why low dosers have a upper hand in some ways but heavy dosers like to somewhat nod away and chill back trying to feel full effect and often over dose and get wobbles. It very important for everyone to find a fine line or close to it on how much grams you need. And after nice break always drop 2 or 3 grams, just cause you been taking for half a year 6 grams and after break you think you have to take same amount? thats a big mistake, try 4 grams for a week or even 3 grams a dose and see the difference first. you might regret why you never tried that before. Like always if you in heavy pain then high dose is very understandable. Like if you conclude what size the dose is, and compare the second number, you will have a better understanding why its like that. So i would say the size of a dose plays a big roll and body chemistry plays less roll in it. Just my thoughts on it.

Edit: i did order Wild Crafted Heavy Red, i noticed i dont have reds as much as greens so cant wait to try it. I also know my number will be around 2-3 on a slow side because i like to take reds bigger dose, around 4-6 gram or if very much in pain it can be up to 8gram a dose but thats like once a month and very rare. I usually take a lot less the next dose and expand break time to even it out with my regular dose.

Brave- last night i took 2.5 gm of TFH 30yr. wild red and was wound up and wide awake for hours. My brain fighting me to take more. I didn't. Wish i did. Netfix.

oohger wrote:Brave- last night i took 2.5 gm of TFH 30yr. wild red and was wound up and wide awake for hours. My brain fighting me to take more. I didn't. Wish i did. Netfix.

Yes if you would of taken 2 more grams your brain would love to take a nap. Honestly i think it's 4 grams and over for sleep. 3 grams is right there in the middle, you might feel sleepy or you might not. Maybe even just another gram and it would of done the trick. I noticed there is many greens that if taken at 1 or 2 grams will make you super energetic but when taken over 5 grams, it is meh because it makes you want to put your head on a pillow and just sleep sleep (may i say you will have a very godly good sleep?). I had a friend and he likes to take extra, thinking he would feel better, wow what a big mistake, locks in room and just wants to sleep. If that ever happens, it doesnt mean its meh kratom, its just very very potent and next time take 1 or 2 grams or even 3 grams is good.. Imagine all those on quitkratom reddit junkies who run into these greens? I call them that becuase most times they dont have respect for the leaf and want to chase just another fix when kratom doesnt work that way. I am sure not only they get wobbles they also get their eyes messed with and they get scared especially if they used to taking 10+ grams .Now that does not happen with all greens just some that i ran into. Reds should always be 4+ grams for sleep in my books. KTC red borneo put me to sleep at 2 grams before, some reds possible can still work but very rare.. Maybe because vendors add some green to reds that happens, i dont know. unless you can fall sleep to 3 grams or 2 grams then more power to you but for me it was always chasing my mind all night not wanting to sleep with reds. So my theory if a green can send you to sleep over 6 grams then its very good potent kratom and should be always taken max 3 grams not more. This is the kind of green you should cap and use it 1 or 3 caps max when driving long trips or just for energy at work, that's basically 1.5grams total if each cap is 0.5 grams. Reason i say this, just to be on safe side 100% because if you driving long trip or trucking, you just want enough energy to get to some place but not OD and make your self want to sleep by accident. This is just from my experience with greens and what i observed over the years and if you test these theory's out, you'll find out i am right. Less is more is not always right, but i can see why a lot say this, the green example i brought up that put you to sleep over 6 grams is the one that should always be less is more, if you want a red to be energetic then always take less then 3 grams or even less then 2 grams, so blending is ideal, 2 red, 3 green and you should not feel sleepy. If low doser then 1 red and 2 green grams. Less is more does not apply to kratom that you can take over 8 grams or even 10 grams and you never feel any sleepy effects from it, my theory it could be good kratom only at high dose but very weak kratom in general or just ok decent kratom. and if you think a lot of people get kratom from all over random crap vendors, thats why less is more does not work for them. I could be wrong but thats just my thoughts on it.

Edit: On a side note if you eat first then its ideal to add 2 extra grams to your dose. And if you do get sleepy and dont need sleep currently, eats food and drink water, fill your stomach well and sleepy effect should be dispelled and everything normalized. If that dont work then find a place to take a nap, means you just took to much of it.

Is the Wild Harvest Gold another name for the Wild Harvest YMD or are they different?

oohger wrote:Brave- last night i took 2.5 gm of TFH 30yr. wild red and was wound up and wide awake for hours. My brain fighting me to take more. I didn't. Wish i did. Netfix.

Oh my! This strain is my absolute favorite. I have never felt super-stimulated though (we're all different, yeah?).
In fact, I love this one so much that I took WAY too much one morning. I was sick for 12 hours straight until I finally barfed - yes, after 12 hours it was still there in my stomach. I consider that a good sign. My body couldn't handle it, so it just DIDN'T.

When it comes to TFH, I often want to take more and more because it's just that good. But DON'T. Seriously. You won't get any more benefits, and it will be wasted.

All the Best oohger

brave777 wrote:On a side note if you eat first then its ideal to add 2 extra grams to your dose. And if you do get sleepy and dont need sleep currently, eats food and drink water, fill your stomach well and sleepy effect should be dispelled and everything normalized. If that dont work then find a place to take a nap, means you just took to much of it.

Eating and kratom is tricky for me. Eating food during a burn tends to sap away all the energy and mood and leave me feeling sleepy for a few hours. When using kratom I'll only eat once or twice a day for this reason. I wonder if anyone else experiences this.

Bawli wrote:

brave777 wrote:On a side note if you eat first then its ideal to add 2 extra grams to your dose. And if you do get sleepy and dont need sleep currently, eats food and drink water, fill your stomach well and sleepy effect should be dispelled and everything normalized. If that dont work then find a place to take a nap, means you just took to much of it.

Eating and kratom is tricky for me. Eating food during a burn tends to sap away all the energy and mood and leave me feeling sleepy for a few hours. When using kratom I'll only eat once or twice a day for this reason. I wonder if anyone else experiences this.

This only happens when i eat pizza or some fast foods, or none organic foods, if you look carefully, most ingredients by design will zap all your energy on its own. Pick foods wisely. This never happens if you eat the right foods. something to think about and always pay attention to every single ingredient or be ready to be zapped.

Now if can eat more fruits and veggies and less processed foods. you will notice the difference day and night. I think even with out kratom if you do this you will feel very good, its just people are very very use to feeling sick and its a normal for them. It is not a normal. Infact lots of foods will make you lazy and sleepy on its own. Like cheap stores i never buy anything processed, except only lemons, seaweed, baking soda and apple cider vinegar Braggs brand. Zero Dairy! No canned Goods! I rather eat little and only good stuff and feel good long term instead fill stomach full and still feel like i am hungry, that just means your body didnt get what you are looking for, nutrition! Always add temeric or black pepper to your soups and find out many tricks like that and you will be well off not getting sleepy. Maybe this explains why you feel better if you eat few times a day, infact its better to do that and eat less as well then over eat with wrong foods. Fasting is good too, if you know you can do it and kratom is helping, dont eat! eat only when you feel your body graving it, not for fun... Avoid chips because if you start one you will want to finish the whole bag, i think its called MSG? the stuff that makes you want to grave and eat and eat. And chips are filled with Modified canola oils/ palm oils / rape seed oils, this the stuff that makes you explode all ways.

Edit: recently i eat Sorrel soup and sorrel is way better then kale over x30 times, it has more nutrition then you ever need. I dont understand why they dont sell that in any store. But it made me feel super duper good, and i eat it after a kratom dose. No sleepy just super duper good. Organic chiken from whole foods, cooked and broken meats into soup. Potatoes and eggs. i added black pepper with the soup. After one bowl soup, you feel fulfilled and fully happy like you got all the nutrition you need. Now i dont like turmeric inside soup so i make a cup shot of turmeric and drank that separately. You can hunt it down in amish places or some local flea markets once in a while or maybe see online who sells sorrel and grow it your selfs, it survives winter and never dies. you can take a batch and plant 1 or 2 leafs sticking out with some root and it will take off and become a nice batch, so you can make unlimited amount for your self, all you need is some land. I can take a picture of it if anyone interested how my sorrel is planted. I call sorrel beyond super foods, you can also put it in salads as well. leafs are edible strait off garden on the spot as well.

I recommend everyone look up "Sorrel" and everyone should have in their backyard. why? Just read up all the good stuff it does. And i been eating it over 10 years.

gumbyke1 wrote:
One thing that most people dont realize is there is EXTREMELY RARE to have a batch that works well on everyone. Typically, even our highest scored batches will have anywhere from 10-20% of people who say they dont care for it. I know 10-20% sounds like a lot but when you compare that to results from some of our control samples, we will see anywhere from 55-70% not liking them! There are few exceptions - right now our Wild Crafted Heavy red is the only batch of 2020 so far where every single person has scored it a 7 or higher (and there are only a few 7's). EVERY SINGLE PERSON. What is interesting is that the vast majority of people are not ordering it .

Even with a batch like the Wild Crafted Heavy Red, I dont like to give recommendations based on what is our "best batches"... we just dont typically have them. It's important to note that nothing makes the menu unless it scores high in consumer testing. What this means is that all of our batches score within a similarly narrow range.... there really are not any "standouts". At that point, its really about being able to dial in on what matches your personal chemistry (which is why we are so aggressive with requesting that customers complete the private surveys).

I went back and checked my notes and I gave the Wild Crafted Heavy Red an overall 8 but made a note that it was "not euphoric". That was why it didn't make it on my order list. Don't know about other testers. Wish we could predict what curing processes developed and which leaves contained the euphoric alkaloids. The research you're doing is hopefully leading us there. Thanks for your efforts.

my 2 splits are in my town. am delivery!! woot woot

Just recieved and tried some TFH 30 Year Wild Red Hulu yesterday. Burned it throughout the day and absolutely loved it. One of my new favorite TFH strains Definitely a unique red for me. Very well rounded. Feels more like a green/red mix. Great mood boost and highly anxiolytic . Not much euphoria at the 1.6g dose, but overall a great work day red at that dose. 9 out of 10 overall for me.

I've also been loving the Red Sumpur, Chocolate B, Relaxing Red, 30 Year TFH, White MD, Wild Crafted White, Wild Premium Kali, 30 Year Red Hangat, Classic MD, 24k Bali & Green Sumpur. I've tried 75-80% of the TFH strains they have to offer and all but a few have been above a 7 and mostly 8's and 9's.

I've found that keeping my serving around 1.5- 1.7 grams, has consistently given me great effects with TFH leaf over the last few months.

Burning the TFH Red Muna now. Quick onset. Already feeling a wave of euphoria and calm. Feels like it will be a heavy red. Maybe not ideal for the work day but feeling very nice nonetheless!

Almost looking forward to the coming few weeks of self imposed isolation with my TFH leaf supply.

Keep killing it Gumby!

This is a fascinating thread that touches on a discussion I’ve always been curious about that Brave and Gum touched on. I have several times had batches that did nothing for me and when I revisited them later worked amazingly well. I’ve also had batches of some the best kratom I’ve ever had and about halfway through the bag it suddenly doesn’t do anything for me. Kratom is so fascinating and so mysterious as well. Would love to know more about the science behind this and why our bodies respond like they do to kratom