Texas Family Harvest (Gumbyke1)

[unsocialworker]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

I tested his July and September batches and they were as different as night and day. I don't know if my body chemistry wasn't right, or something else, but almost all of his July samples were below average. There was one sample that I thought was ok. When I tested for him again in September, I had the opposite experience. There was once sample that was just good, but the rest of the samples were excellent.

[gumbyke1]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

I tested his July and September batches and they were as different as night and day. I don't know if my body chemistry wasn't right, or something else, but almost all of his July samples were below average. There was one sample that I thought was ok. When I tested for him again in September, I had the opposite experience. There was once sample that was just good, but the rest of the samples were excellent.

Having some sub-par batches is, unfortunately, all part of the testing process. Many of the batches we send out are just small samples we made to test the effects of different experiments (usually just some pre and/or post-harvest modifications). Some of our July and August batches were experiments we were doing around large-scale production... unfortunately 3 of the 4 methods we tried were total duds. All of this has really helped us to better understand how we can manipulate the effects of the final product - but sometimes the things just flat out don't work Also, we sometimes (although rarely) will test out a new source .... those are always a roll of the dice.

In general, it's very challenging to create 100% consistency between batches, even when following your production best practices. This is why consumer testing is such a great tool, it's kind of like quality control. There are sooooooo many variables that alter the tree's production of secondary metabolites (which is where we are spending most of our research in currently), and equally as many variables in post-harvest processing that can affect the final product. We have become a heck of a lot better and producing consistency between batches, but there are still things that we don't understand.

I hope this clears up some of the mystery there

[gumbyke1]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

I tested his July and September batches and they were as different as night and day. I don't know if my body chemistry wasn't right, or something else, but almost all of his July samples were below average. There was one sample that I thought was ok. When I tested for him again in September, I had the opposite experience. There was once sample that was just good, but the rest of the samples were excellent.

Out of curiousity I went back and looked at what you tested in July... you did get some rough samples Only 2 of the six you tried made the menu. Sorry!

[mivanqua]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

You didn't get the 30 year TFH. If you did, you'd be singing a different tune I can assure you. It's pretty outstanding. Like the above poster said, not.the strongest kratom necessarily, but just so oddly awesome. It likely has a high percentage of one of the lesser known alkaloids that, as it turns out, is really important after all.

[trigger]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

You didn't get the 30 year TFH. If you did, you'd be singing a different tune I can assure you. It's pretty outstanding. Like the above poster said, not.the strongest kratom necessarily, but just so oddly awesome. It likely has a high percentage of one of the lesser known alkaloids that, as it turns out, is really important after all.

All the 30 year stuff he's sent me has been in my list of best kratom I've ever had. I would put some in the "most potent" category, but it all seems to be quite well rounded.

[unsocialworker]

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was more impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

I tested his July and September batches and they were as different as night and day. I don't know if my body chemistry wasn't right, or something else, but almost all of his July samples were below average. There was one sample that I thought was ok. When I tested for him again in September, I had the opposite experience. There was once sample that was just good, but the rest of the samples were excellent.

Having some sub-par batches is, unfortunately, all part of the testing process. Many of the batches we send out are just small samples we made to test the effects of different experiments (usually just some pre and/or post-harvest modifications). Some of our July and August batches were experiments we were doing around large-scale production... unfortunately 3 of the 4 methods we tried were total duds. All of this has really helped us to better understand how we can manipulate the effects of the final product - but sometimes the things just flat out don't work Also, we sometimes (although rarely) will test out a new source .... those are always a roll of the dice.

In general, it's very challenging to create 100% consistency between batches, even when following your production best practices. This is why consumer testing is such a great tool, it's kind of like quality control. There are sooooooo many variables that alter the tree's production of secondary metabolites (which is where we are spending most of our research in currently), and equally as many variables in post-harvest processing that can affect the final product. We have become a heck of a lot better and producing consistency between batches, but there are still things that we don't understand.
I hope this clears up some of the mystery there

I get that. Even kratom, from the exact same batch, can be fire one burn, and meh the next, and then be great the next burn. Kratom isn't the most pleasant-tasting, but I think there were like two samples, that were just nasty. I even remember writing that on the feedback forum, and I wonder if the new methods you were trying did something to the taste.

[gumbyke1]

I get that. Even kratom, from the exact same batch, can be fire one burn, and meh the next, and then be great the next burn. Kratom isn't the most pleasant-tasting, but I think there were like two samples, that were just nasty. I even remember writing that on the feedback forum, and I wonder if the new methods you were trying did something to the taste.

There are plenty of things that can affect the taste of leaves both pre and post-harvest. We had considered doing some taste studies to see if taste could be any noticeable indicator of the quality of a batch, but quickly learned that taste is so subjective that its virtually impossible to pull any meaningful data from it. There are absolutely things that cause the same batch to behave differently (maybe something you consumed, time since last serving, etc...) I even personally noticed that kratom tended to kick in noticeably harder whenever I was in an important business meeting (I have no explanation for that, but I would guess it had something to do with the chemical balance of my body when I am "in the zone").

I think folks would also be surprised to see just how wildly opinions can vary on the same leaf - its not uncommon to have the 85% of folks say something like its some of the best kratom they have ever had, while the other 15% say they got absolutely nothing from it. For this reason, we actually have to apply a formula to our testing data to determine whether or not a test was a success or if a batch meets the standard to sell to our customers. Below are the survey results from the past 3 days on one specific sample that is currently in testing (most data has been removed, only the submission date and overall rating are on display). The number on the right is the "overall score"

***Note how it is scores - 1 = (low quality) no effects, 5 = (average) decently effective, comparable to most of the leaf on the market, 10 = (highest quality possible) The best batch you have ever had.

10/17/2019 9
10/17/2019 8
10/17/2019 4
10/16/2019 9
10/17/2019 6
10/17/2020 7
10/17/2020 8
10/16/2020 8
10/16/2019 9
10/16/2019 9
10/16/2019 8
10/16/2019 7
10/16/2019 3
10/15/2019 10
10/16/2019 3
10/16/2019 7
10/16/2019 9
10/15/2019 8
10/15/2019 8
10/15/2019 10
10/15/2019 8
10/14/2019 8
10/15/2019 8
10/15/2019 7

As you can see for the most part people give it high marks, but there are a few that felt it was very below average. The low scores that are sprinkled in could ofcouse be the result of some other variable, however, we have done follow up surveys in the past that confirmed these experience variations are consistent. What is also interesting, is there seems to be some consistency in leaf preferences. It's by no means concrete, but we see a lot of people who score low on a batch like this might score high on a leaf that most people don't care for.

This makes it especially challenging if your goal is to only carry products that you are certain everyone will be pleased with. You can absolutely get a good assessment of the quality of a batch through consumer testing, but you will never be able to please everyone with every batch. The good news is there seems to be the most consistency between users when a batch is just not a good batch - its very easy to weed those out.

[su9861]

----> we see a lot of people who score low on a batch like this might score high on a leaf that most people don't care for.

-----> you will never be able to please everyone with every batch

-----> sometimes the things just flat out don't work

Frustration is in every business. If it were that easy, there would be no need for 1000 vendors, all trying their best.

My customers Usually always get a free full ounce of something. Even if they didn't really care for the FREE yellow !!!
And Always a full count & over ( my oz is 35- 40 grams ) free Guarana is also a big hit, Candied Ginger

I have monthly / seasonal give a ways - $5 Ebay scales, Kershaw Knives for Christmas, thinking of gift cards?
I do send a "hi just a quick follow up.... was that ok? any questions. comments, concerns?
Thanks again" message a few days after EACH sale ( Feedback is very important )

It seems the little things really help and a no questions asked $$ back or replacement policy

Good Luck & Zero returns....I Hope for the best for you Chris....the Best is all you can do !!!
I read " Up Against The Wal- Marts " book....Really good reading for increasing sales & customer service

[gumbyke1]

----> we see a lot of people who score low on a batch like this might score high on a leaf that most people don't care for.

-----> you will never be able to please everyone with every batch

-----> sometimes the things just flat out don't work

Frustration is in every business. If it were that easy, there would be no need for 1000 vendors, all trying their best.

My customers Usually always get a free full ounce of something. Even if they didn't really care for the FREE yellow !!!
And Always a full count & over ( my oz is 35- 40 grams ) free Guarana is also a big hit, Candied Ginger

I have monthly / seasonal give a ways - $5 Ebay scales, Kershaw Knives for Christmas, thinking of gift cards?
I do send a "hi just a quick follow up.... was that ok? any questions. comments, concerns?
Thanks again" message a few days after EACH sale ( Feedback is very important )

It seems the little things really help and a no questions asked $$ back or replacement policy

Good Luck & Zero returns....I Hope for the best for you Chris....the Best is all you can do !!!
I read " Up Against The Wal- Marts " book....Really good reading for increasing sales & customer service

A book by Walmart sounds like the last place I want to model my business after Im just kidding, Im sure it's a good read.

I think the best approach is to just strive for what you as a consumer would want your vendors to do. At the end of the day, that is precisely how I got involved. I was so frustrated as a consumer how wildly inconsistent things are, I became hell-bent on understanding what the issue was. A hobby became an obsession, and an obsession morphed into whatever it is we are doing now.

I still purchase kratom regularly from other vendors to never forget what that is like (shout out to Nick at Soflo for his current batch of Super Green 19090945, go get some ). I think as long as you always use the customer as your filter, you can't go wrong . It sounds like you are doing that... cheers to you!

[Hopbronson]

Sightly off topic, but nick wanted me to say thanks for the shout out! since you mentioned the soflo super green I had to give it a try! have heard consistently great reviews.

[Kirkland]

The secondary metabolites part is super interesting. I was reading a bit about the different chemical compounds in Kratom, do you know anything about this or suggest any literature? I wish there was more known on kratom and its pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, especially the pharmacodynamics.

Edit: Also, is there any way to measure the other compounds in kratom other than mitragynine and 7OHM?

I didn't get to try the most recent batch because I tested others the month or two before, but I thought the ones I did try were just decent. Good leaf to be sure, just not as amazing as everyone in this thread seems to think. I've had batches from other vendors that I was m I’m ore impressed with. Nothing against gumbyke, so please don't get me wrong. Maybe the September batch is just significantly better than the summers?

I tested his July and September batches and they were as different as night and day. I don't know if my body chemistry wasn't right, or something else, but almost all of his July samples were below average. There was one sample that I thought was ok. When I tested for him again in September, I had the opposite experience. There was once sample that was just good, but the rest of the samples were excellent.

Having some sub-par batches is, unfortunately, all part of the testing process. Many of the batches we send out are just small samples we made to test the effects of different experiments (usually just some pre and/or post-harvest modifications). Some of our July and August batches were experiments we were doing around large-scale production... unfortunately 3 of the 4 methods we tried were total duds. All of this has really helped us to better understand how we can manipulate the effects of the final product - but sometimes the things just flat out don't work Also, we sometimes (although rarely) will test out a new source .... those are always a roll of the dice.

In general, it's very challenging to create 100% consistency between batches, even when following your production best practices. This is why consumer testing is such a great tool, it's kind of like quality control. There are sooooooo many variables that alter the tree's production of secondary metabolites (which is where we are spending most of our research in currently), and equally as many variables in post-harvest processing that can affect the final product. We have become a heck of a lot better and producing consistency between batches, but there are still things that we don't understand.

I hope this clears up some of the mystery there

[gravystainonmyshirt]

I agree, the red and green sumpur were great. Loved them, hope texas family opens upsoon.

[Gopherdude]

I just received samples from Gumby and I am very impressed. This has to be the freshest leaf I have ever seen. The wild premium Kali has def been my favorite so far. It smells so good and the color is amazing never had anything like it. Two thumbs up

[beathappening]

Just received mine! I don't know how it made it here so quick, from Texas on Saturday to Minnesota in Monday. Finally some 30 year old stuff to try, can't wait. Thanks gum

[beathappening]

I'm doing testing now. Does anyone have his criteria about how to grade it each strain? I could certainly just be out of the loop. I pm'd him about this but didnt get a reply specific to that

So far the Super green supreme is very nice. Euphoria is pronounced, right in mid spec, comfortability and relaxed. the effects aren't subtle and are easy to describe. Marked sense of well being even though we have a terrible storm outside, it's not a total distraction from myself, though I won't take point off for that. It's heady but I feel a sense of body relaxation and don't feel tired at all. My first impressions are great, I like this more than anything from the July batch undoubtedly.

[gumbyke1]

I'm doing testing now. Does anyone have his criteria about how to grade it each strain? I could certainly just be out of the loop. I pm'd him about this but didnt get a reply specific to that

So far the Super green supreme is very nice. Euphoria is pronounced, right in mid spec, comfortability and relaxed. the effects aren't subtle and are easy to describe. Marked sense of well being even though we have a terrible storm outside, it's not a total distraction from myself, though I won't take point off for that. It's heady but I feel a sense of body relaxation and don't feel tired at all. My first impressions are great, I like this more than anything from the July batch undoubtedly.

Sorry for not sharing the link sooner! I hope you enjoy!

[instantKARMA]

I'm doing testing now. Does anyone have his criteria about how to grade it each strain? I could certainly just be out of the loop. I pm'd him about this but didnt get a reply specific to that

So far the Super green supreme is very nice. Euphoria is pronounced, right in mid spec, comfortability and relaxed. the effects aren't subtle and are easy to describe. Marked sense of well being even though we have a terrible storm outside, it's not a total distraction from myself, though I won't take point off for that. It's heady but I feel a sense of body relaxation and don't feel tired at all. My first impressions are great, I like this more than anything from the July batch undoubtedly.

Just goes to show how different everybody's metabolism and body chemistry tends to be. When
I tested the Super Green Supreme, it kicked my ass, I couldn't hardly keep my eyes open. It
was very heavy, very potent. I believe my serving was around four grams or so at the time which is
a little more than my normal serving! I got all of the effects that you did except I received a
" knock ya' on the couch" dose! Powerful stuff! It was not at all the effect I was expecting from
a green....I thought it would be more energetic...it wasn't, but it was very good leaf!

[BallzDeep9]

I'm doing testing now. Does anyone have his criteria about how to grade it each strain? I could certainly just be out of the loop ...

Just a suggestion, keep track on your own Notepad, text file or whatever.. Your serving size, your # Rating, and any notes for each strain. Stick to a uniform serving, in order to be fair.. That goes without saying I guess lol - Anyway, you'll refer to your notes later on.. For grading, Keep the "Average" in mind - IMO it's good. Average kratom is still OK! .

We naturally have high expectations for his leaf.. I think it's fair to think most is above average.. but I don't recall getting any detail criteria about grading ? We all use our best judgement.. I try to "normalize" any outside factors that may affect my opinion: Test each strain @ around the same time, each day. Empty stomach. No other unusual meds on a Test day.. IF I usually drink coffee, or smoke a cig, every day then keep to that schedule. I try to only Test, on a day when I'm at home, again the idea is to give each 1 a fair Test!

[gumbyke1]

For grading, Keep the "Average" in mind - IMO it's good. Average kratom is still OK! .

No way! Average is for the plebs... we are DOUBLE M!!!

[gumbyke1]

The secondary metabolites part is super interesting. I was reading a bit about the different chemical compounds in Kratom, do you know anything about this or suggest any literature? I wish there was more known on kratom and its pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, especially the pharmacodynamics.

Edit: Also, is there any way to measure the other compounds in kratom other than mitragynine and 7OHM?

Yes, manipulating the secondary metabolites before harvest is where we are spending most of our efforts right now. We have made plenty of interesting discoveries, which have absolutely resulted in high-quality kratom and more consistent results....but I can't say much more than that

Regarding the other compounds, there are some 40 compounds and 25 alkaloids that have been found in kratom samples. There absolutely are ways to measure specific quantities of the lesser-known alkaloids. There are several labs that can test for most of the different alkaloids, but its not cheap. They require a pure sample of the alkaloids you are requesting that they measure. An accredited lab shouldn't have too much trouble obtaining them, but that cost will go directly to the customer requesting the test.

I have loooong believed that the "lesser-known" alkaloids have a much more involved role than what they get credit for, but I dont know of anybody who is doing real research on the synergistic effects.

If you are interested in research, I highly recommend setting up an account with www.academia.edu. I don't remember how much I paid for it, but I use it all of the time (you can even set keywords for it to alert you if a new research paper is published in a journal). Tons of info on there. Also Researchgate.com isnt too bad.

Below is a list of the known alkaloids in kratom with a brief description (as copied from kratom science). https://www.kratomscience.com/2014/10/0 ... sa-kratom/


Mitragynine: Indole alkaloid. Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal, adrenergic, antimalarial, possible psychedelic (5-HT2A) antagonist. Mitragynine is the primary alkaloid in kratom, and is believed to be responsible for the majority of its effects. Roughly 66% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Paynantheine: Indole alkaloid. Appears to be a smooth muscle relaxer, but there is limited research available and more needs to be done. 8.6% to 9% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf. Second most abundant alkaloid.

Speciogynine: Diastereomer of mitragynine. Possible smooth muscle relaxer. 6.6% to 7% of total alkaloid contents of kratom leaf, representing the third most abundant alkaloid.

7-hydroxymitragynine: Analgesic and potent mu-opioid agonist, antitussive, and antidiarrheal. Along with mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine is responsible for the primary effects of Kratom. It represents roughly 2% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf, though this is highly variable. Some leaves have undetectable levels.

Mitraphylline: Oxindole alkaloid. Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, antiamnesic, anti-leukemic, possible immunostimulant. <1% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Isomitraphylline: Immunostimulant, anti-leukemic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Speciophylline: Indole alkaloid also found in Chinese Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa). Possible anti-leukemic. <1% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Rhynchophylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker,
antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic (fever reducing), antiarrhythmic, and anthelmintic (treatment of parasitic worms). It is a also non-competitive NMDA antagonist, and appears to also have effects on dopamine and 5-HT receptors. Chinese Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa) has also been found to contain rhynchophylline. It has a similar chemical structure to mitragynine, and represents < 1% of total alkaloid content found in kratom leaf.

Isorhynchophylline: Immunostimulant, and possible antihypertensive and neuroprotective. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Ajmalicine (Raubasine): Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. It’s structurally related to alkaloids from yohimbe. Ajmalicine is an α1-adrenergic receptor antagonist with preferential actions over α2-adrenergic receptors, which is the reason for its hypotensive effects. According to ‘Alkaloids: Biochemistry, Ecology, and Medical Applications‘, ajmalicine “depletes peripheral noradrenaline stores, resulting in a decrease of peripheral resistance and blood pressure. It also causes depletion of catecholamine and serotonin stores in the brain, heart, and many other organs”. Ajmalicine is also found in Rauwolfia serpentina.

Akuammigine – an indole alkaloid associated with the seeds of Picralima nitida (akaumma). It is structurally similar to yohimbine and mitragynine. Like yohimbine, it is known to have antimalarial activity.

Ciliaphylline: antitussive, analgesic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynantheidine (rauhimbine): μ -opioid antagonist, also found in Yohimbe. It’s related to ajmalicine, and is a diastereomer of yohimbine. Like ajmalicine, it is an α1-adrenergic and α2-adrenergic receptor antagonist with 10x greater affinity for the α1-adrenergic receptor. This is in contrast to yohimbine and its other diastereomer, rauwolscine, which have a 30x higher affinity for the α2-adrenergic receptor over the α1-adrenergic (opposite affinities). < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxeine: Calcium channel blocker. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxine A and B: Dopamine mediating anti-locomotives, meaning that they act as somewhat of a sedative. They are also found in Chinese Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa). There is also some research that suggests they may help with Parkinson’s. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Epicatechin: A flavonoid that’s an antioxidant, antiaggregant, antibacterial, antidiabetic, antihepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, antimutagenic, antiperoxidant, antiviral, potential cancer preventative, alpha-amylase inhibitor. One preliminary study even claims that it may reduce myostatin, which would result in muscle growth and improved strength. It’s also found in dark chocolate, green tea, and grapes.

9-Hydroxycorynantheidine: Partial opioid agonist. One study found that “9-Hydroxycorynantheidine inhibited electrically stimulated guinea-pig ileum contraction, but its maximum inhibition was weaker than that of mitragynine and its effect was antagonized by naloxone, suggesting that 9-hydroxycorynantheidine possesses partial agonist properties on opioid receptors”

Isomitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isopteropodine: Immunostimulant, antimicrobial.

Isospeciofoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraciliatine: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine oxindole B. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraversine: Found in Mitragyna parvifolia, and may also be in Mitragyna speciosa

Speciociliatine: Diastereomer (C3 stereoisomer) of mitragynine. Weak opioid agonist. May inhibit acetylcholine release from presynaptic nerve through means other than opioid receptor stimulation. 0.8% to 1% of total alkaloid content of kratom leaf. Unique to Kratom.

Speciofoline: Potential analgesic and antitussive. Patented (US3324111) by Smith Kline (of Glaxo Smith Kline) in 1964. Also patented (US20100209542) by the University of Massachusetts Medical School and University of Mississippi in 2009 to treat opiate withdrawal. As of February 18, 2019, the patent is listed as abandoned.

Stipulatine: More research needed

Tetrahydroalstonine: Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-2).

[beathappening]

Just a suggestion, keep track on your own Notepad, text file or whatever.. Your serving size, your # Rating, and any notes for each strain. Stick to a uniform serving, in order to be fair.. That goes without saying I guess lol - Anyway, you'll refer to your notes later on.. For grading, Keep the "Average" in mind:

I do this already, but yes I agree it's something that everyone that takes kratom semi seriously should do, for their own sake (although I like reading about it as well). And date everything, batch/dose, method of ingestion, time last eaten, current tolerance, medications etc. I rate by numbers but then I also go into great detail with insights and comparisons and the like. It's indispensable. Plus, in a few years I can go back and re-read, just as a sort of a time capsule. It's like a kratom diary.

We should develop a questionnaire template that includes all of these questions (age, experience, strain, batch number vendor, tolerance, how regularly taken,etc). That could be valuable and conveniet if it caught on, making comparisons and nomalies easier to notice.

[Kirkland]

The secondary metabolites part is super interesting. I was reading a bit about the different chemical compounds in Kratom, do you know anything about this or suggest any literature? I wish there was more known on kratom and its pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, especially the pharmacodynamics.

Edit: Also, is there any way to measure the other compounds in kratom other than mitragynine and 7OHM?

Yes, manipulating the secondary metabolites before harvest is where we are spending most of our efforts right now. We have made plenty of interesting discoveries, which have absolutely resulted in high-quality kratom and more consistent results....but I can't say much more than that

Regarding the other compounds, there are some 40 compounds and 25 alkaloids that have been found in kratom samples. There absolutely are ways to measure specific quantities of the lesser-known alkaloids. There are several labs that can test for most of the different alkaloids, but its not cheap. They require a pure sample of the alkaloids you are requesting that they measure. An accredited lab shouldn't have too much trouble obtaining them, but that cost will go directly to the customer requesting the test.

I have loooong believed that the "lesser-known" alkaloids have a much more involved role than what they get credit for, but I dont know of anybody who is doing real research on the synergistic effects.

If you are interested in research, I highly recommend setting up an account with www.academia.edu. I don't remember how much I paid for it, but I use it all of the time (you can even set keywords for it to alert you if a new research paper is published in a journal). Tons of info on there. Also Researchgate.com isnt too bad.

Below is a list of the known alkaloids in kratom with a brief description (as copied from kratom science). I copied it because I refuse to link to their website... most of it is the industry propaganda nonsense.


Mitragynine: Indole alkaloid. Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal, adrenergic, antimalarial, possible psychedelic (5-HT2A) antagonist. Mitragynine is the primary alkaloid in kratom, and is believed to be responsible for the majority of its effects. Roughly 66% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Paynantheine: Indole alkaloid. Appears to be a smooth muscle relaxer, but there is limited research available and more needs to be done. 8.6% to 9% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf. Second most abundant alkaloid.

Speciogynine: Diastereomer of mitragynine. Possible smooth muscle relaxer. 6.6% to 7% of total alkaloid contents of kratom leaf, representing the third most abundant alkaloid.

7-hydroxymitragynine: Analgesic and potent mu-opioid agonist, antitussive, and antidiarrheal. Along with mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine is responsible for the primary effects of Kratom. It represents roughly 2% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf, though this is highly variable. Some leaves have undetectable levels.

Mitraphylline: Oxindole alkaloid. Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, antiamnesic, anti-leukemic, possible immunostimulant. <1% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Isomitraphylline: Immunostimulant, anti-leukemic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Speciophylline: Indole alkaloid also found in Chinese Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa). Possible anti-leukemic. <1% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Rhynchophylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker,
antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic (fever reducing), antiarrhythmic, and anthelmintic (treatment of parasitic worms). It is a also non-competitive NMDA antagonist, and appears to also have effects on dopamine and 5-HT receptors. Chinese Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa) has also been found to contain rhynchophylline. It has a similar chemical structure to mitragynine, and represents < 1% of total alkaloid content found in kratom leaf.

Isorhynchophylline: Immunostimulant, and possible antihypertensive and neuroprotective. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Ajmalicine (Raubasine): Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. It’s structurally related to alkaloids from yohimbe. Ajmalicine is an α1-adrenergic receptor antagonist with preferential actions over α2-adrenergic receptors, which is the reason for its hypotensive effects. According to ‘Alkaloids: Biochemistry, Ecology, and Medical Applications‘, ajmalicine “depletes peripheral noradrenaline stores, resulting in a decrease of peripheral resistance and blood pressure. It also causes depletion of catecholamine and serotonin stores in the brain, heart, and many other organs”. Ajmalicine is also found in Rauwolfia serpentina.

Akuammigine – an indole alkaloid associated with the seeds of Picralima nitida (akaumma). It is structurally similar to yohimbine and mitragynine. Like yohimbine, it is known to have antimalarial activity.

Ciliaphylline: antitussive, analgesic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynantheidine (rauhimbine): μ -opioid antagonist, also found in Yohimbe. It’s related to ajmalicine, and is a diastereomer of yohimbine. Like ajmalicine, it is an α1-adrenergic and α2-adrenergic receptor antagonist with 10x greater affinity for the α1-adrenergic receptor. This is in contrast to yohimbine and its other diastereomer, rauwolscine, which have a 30x higher affinity for the α2-adrenergic receptor over the α1-adrenergic (opposite affinities). < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxeine: Calcium channel blocker. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxine A and B: Dopamine mediating anti-locomotives, meaning that they act as somewhat of a sedative. They are also found in Chinese Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa). There is also some research that suggests they may help with Parkinson’s. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Epicatechin: A flavonoid that’s an antioxidant, antiaggregant, antibacterial, antidiabetic, antihepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, antimutagenic, antiperoxidant, antiviral, potential cancer preventative, alpha-amylase inhibitor. One preliminary study even claims that it may reduce myostatin, which would result in muscle growth and improved strength. It’s also found in dark chocolate, green tea, and grapes.

9-Hydroxycorynantheidine: Partial opioid agonist. One study found that “9-Hydroxycorynantheidine inhibited electrically stimulated guinea-pig ileum contraction, but its maximum inhibition was weaker than that of mitragynine and its effect was antagonized by naloxone, suggesting that 9-hydroxycorynantheidine possesses partial agonist properties on opioid receptors”

Isomitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isopteropodine: Immunostimulant, antimicrobial.

Isospeciofoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraciliatine: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine oxindole B. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraversine: Found in Mitragyna parvifolia, and may also be in Mitragyna speciosa

Speciociliatine: Diastereomer (C3 stereoisomer) of mitragynine. Weak opioid agonist. May inhibit acetylcholine release from presynaptic nerve through means other than opioid receptor stimulation. 0.8% to 1% of total alkaloid content of kratom leaf. Unique to Kratom.

Speciofoline: Potential analgesic and antitussive. Patented (US3324111) by Smith Kline (of Glaxo Smith Kline) in 1964. Also patented (US20100209542) by the University of Massachusetts Medical School and University of Mississippi in 2009 to treat opiate withdrawal. As of February 18, 2019, the patent is listed as abandoned.

Stipulatine: More research needed

Tetrahydroalstonine: Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-2).

This was incredible, thank you! I know this took some time and I really appreciate it. Going to check out academia and researchgate for sure.

[Bigblind]

Come on man! I want to try .Texas baby!!!

[Somethingsacred]

that wild green sumpur m5 was fantastic and the red sumpur is even better.

That red sumpur was amazing !!! I’d love to have more of that variety... very special “strain”

He’s doing good things and i so appreciate that for the sake of not compromising quality... he keeps his customers limited to make sure everything is top notch!! Pretty cool system , much gratitude gumbyke1 can’t wait to test more in the future !!

[instantKARMA]

I tested Gumby's Wild Premium Kali this A.M. and DAMN, this is really
fine leaf. The mood boost/euphoria was amazing and it had that warm
fuZZZzzy feeling that everyone looks for in a good burn...excellent pain
relief and a nice clean energy and focus too. I just sat their smiling for no
reason at all, then my wife interrupted for our morning hike...very nice
endurance booster too!

I'm going to apply for a job as full time tester for Gumby...no pay, just
test leaf and I'll be quite happy!

[Bigblind]

Never heard a bad thing about him.He seems to really care about our community. I wish everyone was that way.There is a couple of bad eggs out there that have no need for leaf and do bad reviews on good leaf because they are looking for something that they are not going to get out of a burn.But for the most part on this forum there is alot of good advocates for leaf. Doublemherbals is my favorite community by far!

[FartBlaster]

I ended up getting a sample of maeng da course from my sister and it was really good but I can't tell if it was a white or red but it was pretty fast

[jabro70]

Got my Vintage Lot in with more samples yesterday-
The Wild Green Hulu was jaw-dropping good. Probably the best green I’ve sampled from them. It’s a fast one though!

[Somethingsacred]

I agree , that was a favorite of mine .. absolutely jaw dropping for sure !!! Through the roof quality !!
That’s a true blue... green gold right there !!

[instantKARMA]

I ended up getting a sample of maeng da course from my sister and it was really good but I can't tell if it was a white or red but it was pretty fast

It's totally weird how subjective leaf can be. Gumby sent me a test sample of the maeng da course and I found
it to be really laid back with a fair amount of sedation! I've seen several instances where his leaf had the opposite
effect for me as compared to other forum members!

[KappinKrater]

How to you order from TFH?

[acejestyr15]

How to you order from TFH?

Unfortunately they are not accepting new members currently....

[WickedMadScientist]

Just got my samples in. Gumby is such a nice, rad dude! Customer service is on point, and I’m blown away at how sedating and euphoric this stuff labeled G6A. I know nothing about this. I had 4g with food, it was the brightest most vibrant of all 6 samples and was the reason I started with it first. It was a unique smell and taste, you can tell it’s fresh as F**K. Safe to say it’s the best Kratom I’ve had so far in two years.

[instantKARMA]

Just got my samples in. Gumby had sent me a package weeks ago and it never came. He sent an extra package, such a nice, rad dude! So I’m blown away at how sedating and euphoric this stuff labeled G6A. I know nothing about this. I had 4g with food, it was the brightest most vibrant of all 6 samples and was the reason I started with it first. It was a unique smell and taste, you can tell it’s fresh as F**K. Safe to say it’s the best Kratom I’ve had so far in two years.

I tested the G6A yesterday and it was pure couch lock! Very potent and sedating just as you described!

I tested the G6B today and the effect was completely the opposite....nice energy and mood lift and long
legs...definitely a morning strain!

[MikeEdoessomething]

Just got my samples in. Gumby had sent me a package weeks ago and it never came. He sent an extra package, such a nice, rad dude! So I’m blown away at how sedating and euphoric this stuff labeled G6A. I know nothing about this. I had 4g with food, it was the brightest most vibrant of all 6 samples and was the reason I started with it first. It was a unique smell and taste, you can tell it’s fresh as F**K. Safe to say it’s the best Kratom I’ve had so far in two years.

I tested the G6A yesterday and it was pure couch lock! Very potent and sedating just as you described!

I tested the G6B today and the effect was completely the opposite....nice energy and mood lift and long
legs...definitely a morning strain!

Kratom is so weird and unique to each person. I also tried the G6A and G6B over the weekend. The G6A was very energetic to me (I dose at 2 grams - sometimes 3 grams - so my lower dosage may have something to do with it), but I agree the G6A is incredible, with such a great great mood boost. Very unique feeling, but it was one of the best strains of kratom for pure mood boost I have had in awhile. I rated it an 8/10 for energy on the survey I completed for it.

GSB I found to be very similar to the GSA but thought the GSB was more mellow, with a heavier body feeling compared to the GSA if that makes sense. Felt like a Red version of the same strain to me but I have no idea what it is either. Very good as well, though I did like the GSA better. GSB had shorter legs for me too.

At least it seems we all agree these strains are great for a mood boost

[gumbyke1]

Thanks, everybody for the feedback! We have a new harvest that is up for testing - be sure to check the general section for details!

[mitragiriffic]

I do send a "hi just a quick follow up.... was that ok? any questions. comments, concerns?
Thanks again" message a few days after EACH sale ( Feedback is very important )

I hope your automating that!!!!

[lifebreath]

I'd love to be involved in your testing, I've been using kratom for over 4 years and keeping a daily log for the past 2 years. I think your testing program is very interesting and hope to learn more about processing the leaves to get consistent results.

[gumbyke1]

I'd love to be involved in your testing, I've been using kratom for over 4 years and keeping a daily log for the past 2 years. I think your testing program is very interesting and hope to learn more about processing the leaves to get consistent results.

Hey Life - we do testing with every harvest which is usually once a month or every other month. Always keep a look out in the General Section for a post that says "Free Kratom".

You can still apply for this latest harvest, see the post below:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3863

[GrannyJ62]

I'm thankful for all the information and research you and your wife are gathering and sharing we all are benefiting and it seems that your are creating some awesome leaf we will all benefit eventually.